HVC Point at Poipu upgrade to HGVC?

[T_R_Oglodyte]

FWIW - from an owner sales presentation at HGVC Waikoloa a couple of weeks ago. With the usual sales presentation type of caveats, and during the presentation the sales person acknowledged that I knew at least as much about timeshare as he did ........ And it was clear that he was just repeating what he had been told in sales team meetings, which means they are coaching the sales team on what to say on the sales floor to close sales. Not the same as providing general info on product.

To keep terminology clear:

• HGV = Hilton Grand Vacations. The umbrella Hilton timeshare operation.
• HGVC = Hilton Grand Vacations Club. A subset collection of the HGV resorts.
• HVC = HIlton Vacation Club. A subset collection of the HGV resorts, mostly consisting of the former Diamond Resorts (DRI) properties (except for the Embarc properties). Within HGV, HVC is branded as a lower tier property set in comparison to the HGVC properties.

Hilton is supposedly planning significant upgrades at the HVC Point at Poipu to raise the property to HGVC standards. HGV did not have a presence on Kauai prior to the Diamond acquisition, and Point at Poipu was one of the attractions to Hilton in acquiring DRI. HGV also saw Point at Poipu as a property that could be upgraded to HGVC standards, so that HGVC would then have an offering on each of the principal Hawaii isles.

This would be capital investment by HGV, not from owner assessments. Recovery of those costs would be captured by increasing the cost per point for ownership on the sales floor.

If this is substantially true (bearing in mind the usual caveat about whether the sales person lips were moving), this could work out well for existing deeded owners at Poipu, who might see a significant increase in the value of their deeds. Or, if someone wants to put money on a come line, to pick up some Poipu deeds on the open market for close to zero cost.

Just a though for folks to consider.

 

[artringwald]

With the billing for the 2023 maintenance fees, we got a letter from the Point at Poipu HOA. I hope what they said in this paragraph is true.

In 2022, the board settled a construction defect lawsuit with the contractor that completed work on exterior property repairs. As a result, the board has been
able to proceed with determining scope for making those external repairs to the windows, soffits and fascias. Like the original project, this project will be multiphased.
At the same time the exterior repairs are completed, the interior of the suites will be renovated. This includes renovations in all kitchens and bathrooms,
and includes both flooring and furnishings. These projects will be funded primarily by the association. However, as part of Hilton Grand Vacations’
commitment to the Poipu resort and the property’s Owners, HGV has agreed to contribute $5 million to the association to assist with these project costs. The
contribution will be paid over a period of five years.

The HOA has been planning the renovations for a long time. Except for COVID, they would have started in 2020. Just before the pandemic, we got a tour of a unit that had been updated. I'm not sure how much the plans have changed since Hilton took over, but they should be starting this fall. Here's a couple of pictures I took of the model unit.

 

[wickedwahine11]

Hi, if you don't mind my asking, which unit were these photos taken from? We have been owners (of five deeded weeks) at the Point at Poipu since 1996 when it was created by Embassy Suites. After ownership in Sunterra, and DRI, we were hoping Hilton would finally renovate this property. We love it dearly but it has been a hard haul, especially with the water intrusion assessments. We were just there last week in our fixed week unit in 6305, and were actually debating relinquishing our deeds through deedback, gift or sale due to the horrible conditions in the unit with stained furniture, peeling paint, cracked floors, sticky cabinets and a "locus-like" deluge of roaches. We have upcoming stays in September and December, and frankly, were dreading them. But now after seeing the unit you posted photos of, I'm hoping it is improving and we might be lucky enough to get that unit when we return this fall/winter.

 

[wickedwahine11]

Hi, if you don't mind my asking, which unit were these photos taken from? We have been owners (of five deeded weeks) at the Point at Poipu since 1996 when it was created by Embassy Suites. After ownership in Sunterra, and DRI, we were hoping Hilton would finally renovate this property. We love it dearly but it has been a hard haul, especially with the water intrusion assessments. We were just there last week in our fixed week unit in 6305, and were actually debating relinquishing our deeds through deedback, gift or sale due to the horrible conditions in the unit with stained furniture, peeling paint, cracked floors, sticky cabinets and a "locus-like" deluge of roaches. We have upcoming stays in September and December, and frankly, were dreading them. But now after seeing the unit you posted photos of, I'm hoping it is improving and we might be lucky enough to get that unit when we return this fall/winter.

Oops just realized you said it was the model unit. I didn't read closely enough before, so there is no way to stay in that one. Sorry about that...guess we will still have sticky cabinets, cracked tiles, sagging/stained furniture on both our visits later this year. Hopefully less roaches though...

 

[youppi]

The model unit looks similar to what they showed for the first time at the annual Hawaii Collection meeting in September 2019.
See pages 21 to 25 of

https://owners.diamondresorts.com/webui/doc_load_from_store?pvFileName=F1803225209/2019_10_25_CSH_Annual_Meeting_Presentation_final.pdf

also to the page 21 of the 2021 annual meeting presentation

https://owners.diamondresorts.com/webui/doc_load_from_store?pvFileName=F-1048505086/2021_9_30_CSH_Annual_Meeting_Presentation.pdf

in 2022, they just mentioned they will renovate kitchens, bathrooms, furniture and flooring at page 22 of https://owners.diamondresorts.com/w...28_CSH_Annual_Meeting_Presentation. FINAL.pdf

 

[caligal]

Hi, if you don't mind my asking, which unit were these photos taken from? We have been owners (of five deeded weeks) at the Point at Poipu since 1996 when it was created by Embassy Suites. After ownership in Sunterra, and DRI, we were hoping Hilton would finally renovate this property. We love it dearly but it has been a hard haul, especially with the water intrusion assessments. We were just there last week in our fixed week unit in 6305, and were actually debating relinquishing our deeds through deedback, gift or sale due to the horrible conditions in the unit with stained furniture, peeling paint, cracked floors, sticky cabinets and a "locus-like" deluge of roaches. We have upcoming stays in September and December, and frankly, were dreading them. But now after seeing the unit you posted photos of, I'm hoping it is improving and we might be lucky enough to get that unit when we return this fall/winter.

Yes some of the reviews of the hotels are similar to what you mention, the resort is very faded. But others say it is OK (albeit dated). Hard to figure out if its a good deal to stay there even with discounted rates.

 

[artringwald]

Yes some of the reviews of the hotels are similar to what you mention, the resort is very faded. But others say it is OK (albeit dated). Hard to figure out if its a good deal to stay there even with discounted rates.

It all depends on your priorities. The interiors certainly aren't luxurious. The kitchens and bathrooms are dated and sometimes show some damage. There's not good sound insulation between floors. The salt mist from the crashing waves quickly corrodes fixtures and patio furniture. If you come back late, you could have a long walk from a parking spot. If these things are important to you, you won't like this place.

So why do we keep coming back every year for the past 20 years? What's important to us is: a great view of the waves crashing on the rocks, the turtles bobbing up and down in the lagoon, whales spouting offshore, a pool with swimming lanes, a bar and grill next to the pool, an adult only hot tub, many well maintained grills with direct gas lines, large 2 bed/2 bath units with a walk in closet, a staff that's always been responsive to maintenance problems, management that listens to suggestions, beautiful gardens and lagoons throughout the resort, and a location on the south shore of Kauai that's relatively quiet with plenty of shopping and dining nearby.

As far as roach problems, you'll find them in any tropical location. If the previous occupants didn't keep their food sealed up and didn't empty their kitchen trash each night, the roaches will quickly multiply. The one time when we did see a roach, maintenance asked if we could leave for a couple of hours the next day so they could fumigate. We did, and didn't see a roach the rest of the trip.

 

[dougp26364]

This is my knee jerk reaction:

It would be nice……… but I’m not holding my breath.

POP has been around for a long time and has gone through significant construction updates at considerable cost to its owners. For the owners that have stayed at POP, this would be welcome news.

However, to recover significant income from the sale of points, HVC would need a significant number of deeds. I question if that number if large enough to be worthy of this consideration. Furthermore, picking up cheap deeds in the open market for us mere mortals would become significantly more difficult. HVC would/should be a major player for resale deeds since they’d need to grab as much low cost inventory as necessary. The cost would go up on those cheap deeds. Perhaps that would be a barometer of the validity of the salesman’s speculation if suddenly HVC exercised ROFR, assuming that’s an option, or became an active participant in buying back deeds on the cheap, perhaps even becoming an aggressive buyer on the resale market. To date this hasn’t been mentioned on TUG that I’m aware of and points to the sales person spreading more rumor than truth.

The salesman’s statement that you know at least as much as he or she did was likely an understatement. I’d take bets that you know FAR more than the sales person would like to acknowledge.

I wouldn’t be taking a flyer on cheap deeds at this resort unless I had a genuine interest in owning at this location. I’m also not excited about any speculation from a salesman about the potential conversion to HGVC club, because I don’t believe they’d have a significant number of deeds to make it easily available for the club booking window.

I really believe this was the salesman’s attempt to see if there was any slight interest to push a new sales contract based on pure, wild, speculation about upgrading POP to an existing, knowledgeable, owner.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

However, to recover significant income from the sale of points, HVC would need a significant number of deeds. I question if that number if large enough to be worthy of this consideration.

A quite excellent point. If the resort inventory is essentially fully sold (with the only developer inventory what has been obtained via foreclosure and deedback), how could HGV recoup the investment in sales at the resort?

But, since they don't sell Poipu specific inventory, that might be moot as they would recoup the money via the pricing on Hawaii Collection trust sales.

 

[pedro47]

How many units at this resort will be upgraded to this model?
Also, what is the time table to upgraded every unit at this resort?

Finally it maybe cheaper for Hilton to upgraded all DRI Resorts than to try to build fifty (50) new Hilton Resorts. Labor costs, land and materials beening some major factors to upgrade all DRI Resorts IMHO. Plus, there maybe some corporate tax advantages to upgrade all DRI Resorts .

 

[magmue]

We own Worldmark, which was acquired by Wyndham. In recent years, several resorts have been built; e.g. Portland that have a certain percentage of unit allotted to Worldmark owners and the rest to Wyndham owners.

It might be messier to sort out for a long standing resort like P@P, but I wonder a similar co-location might be an option? Could HGVC acquire deeded P@P weeks and then make those weeks available to HGVC owners similarly to the way some of the Florida affiliates offer limited availability?

 

[wickedwahine11]

Thanks very much for supplying the links to those documents. They were really informative, and I really appreciate it.

We are just so conflicted, as we have spent nearly thirty years dearly loving the Point. But with five deeds, the dilapidated conditions, bug infestation and increasing maintenance fees (in addition to the ones we already pay for our HGVC contracts) have left us debating if it is worth it to us to keep going there. There are so many wonderful memories spent there, with family members that are no longer with us, and it has been a big part of our lives for many weeks each year. We adore the staff, from the bellmen like Randy to Jamie (the manager) and the rest of the team.

I think the water intrusion assessments really hit us hard financially, then when maintenance fees were still due for the years we could not visit (due to Hawaii's ban on travel to the state during the pandemic) and those fees were not used to renovate in those down years when there were no visitors, to have it still look this shabby, with the bugs, it is just hard to keep justifying paying thousands of dollars per deed each year for us.

We visit Hawaii as much as six times a year, and have stayed on the Big Island, Oahu, Maui and Kauai. I know that bugs are a reality on a tropical island. Yet, while I have had them in a variety of resorts, somehow in 23 years of owning at the Hilton Hawaiian Village - staying as often as we do - I have never seen even ONE. Not one. So it can be done.

I appreciate the previous poster's comment about the roaches, but I'm not talking about one or two. A couple of weeks ago, we literally had dozens of them. We called and they sent one person with a can of Raid. We ended up having to buy two cans of Raid ourselves to spray on them constantly. There were so many on the screen doors that we could not open the sliding doors in the living room until we killed them constantly - and anyone that has stayed at the Point knows there is no a/c in the living room, so opening the doors for a breeze is a must. When we finally would kill them, we ended up having to go outside and sweeping them up as birds kept coming to eat them and we didn't want any birds poisoned by the Raid. We even refused mid week housekeeping as we didn't want the door left open for more to come inside. On many visits, I've seen one or two roaches there in the past, but nothing like this before.

As for the furnishings, we know the cabinets and floors have seen wear and tear, but we had stains on furniture, stains on the walls, and the balcony door was completely rotted and unusable. I am well aware of the damage that salt water and air can do to property on the ocean, but they don't have this problem at other resorts in Poipu like Whaler's Cove or Kuhio Shores. I don't have any photos on my phone but can get them and upload them tomorrow from my mother's phone to show some of what I mean if anyone is interested.

I am really relieved to hear they will be renovating the units, and the photos in those presentations look really nice. I'm just not sure if it is worth it to us to keep spending this much money for that many weeks a year to have as miserable a trip as we did while we wait. It is only a deep love for Kauai, the emotional attachment to this particular resort that we have built up over more than one hundred visits to it, and our love for the wonderful staff at the Point that are keeping us hanging around now. At this point, we are hoping the roaches were an anomaly on this visit, and that we fare better in September and December for now, and will let those stays govern our actions moving forward.

 

[geist1223]

They must take better care of the Units that are part of the Hawaiian Collection. We have never had a bug problem or any of the issues mentioned by the Deed Owners.

 

[youppi]

They are supposed to convert back the 3 bdrm unit used by the sales.
So, the 52 weeks of this 3 bdrm unit could be sold as deed and put in the HGVC in place of adding them to the HVC Hawaii Collection if they want because they did something similar at the Elara in Las Vegas when they sold some units in the HGVC and some in the HC.

 

[GT75]

So, the 52 weeks of this 3 bdrm unit could be sold as deed and put in the HGVC in place of adding them to the HVC Hawaii Collection if they want because they did something similar at the Elara in Las Vegas when they sold some units in the HGVC and some in the HC.

That would make it interesting (as in adding more confusion to everything being done so far.)

 

[Dollie]

............

Do you go to the “Meet the Manager” meeting usually held once a week at the resort. This is NOT the sales presentation. It generally appears on the resort calendar but you could also ask at the front desk about it. It is often run by Jamie. She will bring you up to date on what’s going on. You could discuss your issues then. She is also the one that took us to see the model unit of the new updates and explained the decisions made in the design of the update.

 

[artringwald]

Do you go to the “Meet the Manager” meeting usually held once a week at the resort. This is NOT the sales presentation. It generally appears on the resort calendar but you could also ask at the front desk about it. It is often run by Jamie. She will bring you up to date on what’s going on. You could discuss your issues then. She is also the one that took us to see the model unit of the new updates and explained the decisions made in the design of the update.

I always liked going to those meetings but they haven't restarted them since COVID. I'm hoping they will soon. Deeded week owners get a summary of plans with their maintenance fee statement.

 

[wickedwahine11]

We used to always attend the manager meetings, religiously. But those ended years ago…

 

[wickedwahine11]

They must take better care of the Units that are part of the Hawaiian Collection. We have never had a bug problem or any of the issues mentioned by the Deed Owners.

Well I don’t know what to tell you. I guess I’m happy for you. We always stay in corner, ocean front units, usually 6305 or 4404. If there are better units than those in that resort let me know. Because in 27 years of visits, three to five times a year, I haven’t found them.

 

[undrpar64]

Does anyone know if the change to a Hilton Property and updates would include air conditioning? We had considered vacationing at the Point several years ago but were told that the units did not have air conditioning and that was a deal breaker for us.

 

[artringwald]

Does anyone know if the change to a Hilton Property and updates would include air conditioning? We had considered vacationing at the Point several years ago but were told that the units did not have air conditioning and that was a deal breaker for us.

Funny you should ask that. Our first stay there was in 2000 and we rented it because it was one of the few places in Poipu that did have AC. Most units have AC in each of the bedrooms. To keep the living area cool you have to leave at least one of the bedroom doors open. The overheard fans help distribute the cool air. There are a few "elbow" rooms that have AC in the living area and not in the second bedroom. These units are nice if you don't need the second bedroom but are bad if you do because the window in that bedroom faces the hallway. If you need AC in there you have to use the box fan they provide to blow it in.

We don't like heat or humidity but usually don't have to use AC there until the breeze stops. Then we have had to run it nonstop for several days in a row.

 

[FunnyFarm]

We stay over Thanksgiving so the need for AC is minimal.
The resort actually prefers you to use AC rather than leaving the windows open.
We love the breeze thru corner units with windows open, we actually need to close them at night to stay warm.
Wife likes the AC in bedrooms at night, with door open it keeps living space cool.
Summer might be different but bedrooms have AC except elbow units.

 

[artringwald]

If you're interested in an aerial view of the property, this video for the property next door also shows much of The Point At Poipu.

 

[timsi]

With the billing for the 2023 maintenance fees, we got a letter from the Point at Poipu HOA. I hope what they said in this paragraph is true.

In 2022, the board settled a construction defect lawsuit with the contractor that completed work on exterior property repairs. As a result, the board has been
able to proceed with determining scope for making those external repairs to the windows, soffits and fascias. Like the original project, this project will be multiphased.
At the same time the exterior repairs are completed, the interior of the suites will be renovated. This includes renovations in all kitchens and bathrooms,
and includes both flooring and furnishings. These projects will be funded primarily by the association. However, as part of Hilton Grand Vacations’
commitment to the Poipu resort and the property’s Owners, HGV has agreed to contribute $5 million to the association to assist with these project costs. The
contribution will be paid over a period of five years.

The HOA has been planning the renovations for a long time. Except for COVID, they would have started in 2020. Just before the pandemic, we got a tour of a unit that had been updated. I'm not sure how much the plans have changed since Hilton took over, but they should be starting this fall. Here's a couple of pictures I took of the model unit.

I hope they can do better than that. Still a lot nicer than the bathrooms and kitchens now. The resort has a lot of potential.