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huge timeshare packages up on eBay

ronparise

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I dont think your guess is correct. These are packages owned by one seller, and CJ timeshares is acting as the broker...I dont think this is your typical PCC sale...In fact you are not buying the timeshares you are buying stock in a corporation that owns the timeshares....The end result is about the same but no closing costs and no resort transfer fees,
 

Rent_Share

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I respectively disagree with you Ron

This would be exactly the LLC corporation(s) that hold the tittles to the T/S acquired through the PCC game. Looking to dump the whole mess on another "investor(s)" rather than continuing to try to sell them off one at a time.

Reported it to eBay as a sale of stock/security - It should be gone by tomorrow
 
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gnorth16

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I have asked for a detailed list of resorts. Would be interesting to see what is available, where the inventory comes from and if inventory will be arriving going forward.

They could be selling the LLC and transferring it into your name as opposed to transferring individual timeshares. Could money be made doing this? Maybe, depending on the resorts offered and what the cut for using their closing company is. On that note, there is probably an easier way to get into the eBay resale market and with less risk. I'm sure if you called CJ or another company and asked if the were hiring re-sellers, they probably are.

If it were the "leftovers" they should be paying someone to take them as opposed to charging for them. That being said, quality vacations has usually been on the high side for "buy it now" prices on the auctions I have seen.

I wonder if it is any better than the freebies given away by Uri Fried?
http://www.webuytimeshare.com/free/default.asp
 

ronparise

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I respectively disagree with you Ron

This would be exactly the LLC corporation(s) that hold the tittles to the T/S acquired through the PCC game. Looking to dump the whole mess on another "investor(s)" rather than continuing to try to sell them off one at a time.

Reported it to eBay as a sale of stock/security - It should be gone by tomorrow

You may be right but when I see them acting as broker, I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Ive got a call into my guy there, who has always been a straight shooter, and would hope to get a straight answer. It really dosent make any difference to me

If it is the PCC selling off their own inventory, I would see it as a good thing..trying to sell it into the hands of someone willing to pay the fees, rather than just abandoning the mess
 

Rent_Share

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The transfer will consist of legally adding a new officer to the corporation, allowing you to own the properties without having the ownerships listed under your individual name.


Which is the sale of a business ownership - which violates the eBay real estate rules
 

am1

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In the past there were too many garbage contracts included to make it worth anything. If they only added contracts that had decent mfs it would be a lot more valuable. If no one buys I am sure they just walk away from the llc.
 

Rent_Share

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To remove all doubt


Brokerage Services provided by Strategis Realty LLC, a licensed Real Estate Brokerage, FL license # CQ1031801
(THE 01 WAS OMITED FROM THE EBAY LISTING)

[SIZE=-1]License Type [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Name [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Name[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Type[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]License[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Number/[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Rank[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Status/Expires [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Real Estate Corporation[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]STRAT EGIS REALTY LLC[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Primary[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]CQ1031801[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]RE Corp.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Current, Active[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]03/31/2013[/SIZE][SIZE=-2] License Location Address*: [/SIZE][SIZE=-2]8545 COMMODITY CIRCLE ORLANDO, FL 32819[/SIZE][SIZE=-2] Main Address*:[/SIZE][SIZE=-2]8545 COMMODITY CIRCLE ORLANDO, FL 32819[/SIZE]

Strategis
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.vini nc.com



OTHER ENTITIES AT THE SAME ADDRESS


DVC Timeshare
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.vini nc.com

Give Away Timeshare
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.vin inc.com

Give Back Timeshare
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.vini nc.com

Timeshare Complaints
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.vi ninc.com

Timeshare Luxury
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.v ininc.com

Timeshare Out
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.vini nc.com

Timeshare Partners LLC
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 150
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.times harepartners.com

Timeshareweb.com LLC
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 150
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.times harepartners.com

V. I. Network Inc.
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.vini nc.com

VIN
8545 Commodity Cir Ste 125
Orlando, FL 32819-9002
www.v ininc.com
 
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ampaholic

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...

This would be exactly the LLC corporation(s) that hold the tittles to the T/S acquired through the PCC game. Looking to dump the whole mess on another "investor(s)" rather than continuing to try to sell them off one at a time.
...

I agree - I think this is a wonderful way to eventually get on a first name basis with the Florida A.G.

JMHO
 

BocaBum99

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This looks sloppy to me. It would be too simple to establish a set of relationships proving a business model to defraud the HOAs. If they can identify any of the officers, those officers can be named in a lawsuit which effectively pierces the corporate veil. It's only a matter of time before one of the big timeshare resort groups decides to take on one of the PCCs. It will be lawyer against lawyer and these timeshare resort groups have deep pockets.

The only thing that needs to be established is that the intent of the business model is to dump timeshares into a holding company and then bankrupt it. Does anyone think there is any other motive? If there is another motive, it will be pretty hard to prove.
 

am1

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First they want to try to sell it to an "investor". In theory a good idea as all the deeds have been transferred but most of the contracts are worthless.

Wyndham developed CWA to partly deal with that.
 

BocaBum99

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First they want to try to sell it to an "investor". In theory a good idea as all the deeds have been transferred but most of the contracts are worthless.

Wyndham developed CWA to partly deal with that.

When you sell a business as a business broker, you need to provide to a potential buyer a type of prospectus so it is possible for a buyer to put a value to the business. There needs to be a business case, a cash flow and income statement, a balance sheet and some tax returns. What do you think the probability that those documents even exist so that proper due diligence can be performed by a potential investor?

This method of disposing of timeshares is really a last ditch effort to salvage the business model for PCCs.
 

am1

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This method of disposing of timeshares is really a last ditch effort to salvage the business model for PCCs.

I agree 100%. A way to make a little cash and to avoid foreclosure. Does anyone know what has happen to these llc's put up for sale on eBay in the past?
 

mdonato

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I requested an inventory list I am not sure if they will provide it but I am curious none the less. ;)
 

thinze3

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Fwiw -

I purchased two timeshares from two of the companies named above. The eBay names were different (one spelled backwards I think). I had read all the posts about them (good and bad) before finalizing the two different purchases in two different years.

Timeshare Closing Services, their sister company in the same office handled the closings. Had a few small bumps but all ended out well. I would buy from them again.
 

mdonato

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As a buyer I am sure most would like them and I cant blame anyone for wanting to save a buck or 2. I just dont think most folks have realized the long term PRICE will be far more expensive. The next few years should prove very interesting.
 

ronparise

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When you sell a business as a business broker, you need to provide to a potential buyer a type of prospectus so it is possible for a buyer to put a value to the business. There needs to be a business case, a cash flow and income statement, a balance sheet and some tax returns. What do you think the probability that those documents even exist so that proper due diligence can be performed by a potential investor?

This method of disposing of timeshares is really a last ditch effort to salvage the business model for PCCs.

Thats not always necessary. Some businesses are purchased only for the assets. In fact some "businesses" are only holding companies. In the case of a real estate holding company there may be no income at all.

Sometimes the value of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and in other cases the sum of the parts is greater than the whole (ask Mitt about that). In the first case Id want to see a balance sheet, tax returns etc. In the second Id do my own appraisal and be satisfied

This really brings to the fore, a question about our (those of us that buy from the PCCs) values and ethics. We criticize the PCCs for what they do, but we help to make it possible by skimming the best of their inventory

I think a potential buyer would have to have the same ethics. They will take this package, if the 2012 mf is paid in full, sell or rent what they can; try to give away whats left, (to the POAs if they will have them) and walk away from the rest.
 

am1

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2012 mfs would not be paid. Most likely 2012 points missing. Odd year contracts will not have points till 2013.
 

BocaBum99

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Thats not always necessary. Some businesses are purchased only for the assets. In fact some "businesses" are only holding companies. In the case of a real estate holding company there may be no income at all.

Sometimes the value of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and in other cases the sum of the parts is greater than the whole (ask Mitt about that). In the first case Id want to see a balance sheet, tax returns etc. In the second Id do my own appraisal and be satisfied

This really brings to the fore, a question about our (those of us that buy from the PCCs) values and ethics. We criticize the PCCs for what they do, but we help to make it possible by skimming the best of their inventory

I think a potential buyer would have to have the same ethics. They will take this package, if the 2012 mf is paid in full, sell or rent what they can; try to give away whats left, (to the POAs if they will have them) and walk away from the rest.

There still has to be a theory for value creation or investment returns. Otherwise, it's just a scam to default on maintenance fees. That is relevant because it is illegal to set up a business with intent to defraud. The plaintiff would set out to prove the intent to defraud the HOA. The defendant would have to prove that they had a legitimate theory for making money. Starting a new company because the old one is not working anymore doesn't help prove the case. In fact, it helps to prove the case of the plaintiffs.

In the case of a holding company, the theory would be capital appreciation or liquidation value. There would have to be a history of some type to show that there was a good faith attempt to execute on that strategy for income production. If the theory of income production is collect fees for a timeshare, extract out the cash while the business is not in technical default, dump them into a holding company and then bankrupt the holding company to avoid having to pay fees. That is a clear intent that is illegal.
 

abdibile

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At least this auction shows us roughly how many units one of the biggest PCC will send into default in 2012.

Given the number of timeshare weeks worldwise these numbers do not really shock me. I would have expected VIN Inc to send more inventory into default.

I requested the list of inventory two days ago and did not get anything yet.

These companies know what they are doing so they also know that these companies do have a significant negative value and would probably be willing to get rid of the LLCs if they had to pay something to the buyer. At least enough to compensate their risk of personal liability if they just bankrupt the LLC.

In terms of how much the inventory is really worth, which ones could be given back to the HOA to prevent foreclosure costs and which ones could have rental/sale potential TUGers as agroup have much more knowledge than these PCCs.

So perhaps it could make sense to establish a group of TUGers, do an independent valuation of the inventory and buy the company (not paying anything but receiving money from the PCC to take the portfolio) and make some money from it.
 

gnorth16

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I was told a list would be emailed, but nothing came. I am genuinely interested in this as as opportunity going forward. But without a list, no decision could be made on what value (if any) could be placed on the lot.
 
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