[HPC Contract Talk] Inventory - HRC and HPC Inventory as of June 2019

[alameda94501]

This is part of a series of posts:

Click here for the Introduction Post
Click here for the Request List, Wait List, and Reservations Post

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Probably the biggest issue an HRC owner thinks about in relation to the HPC is Inventory.

Inventory needs to be disclosed in the HPC Contract, so let's just start by looking at the numbers.

First, I have a list of legacy HRC inventory from 2015 (cf: Tabular Description of Component Sites, HRC Contracts) - before the introduction of the HPC:

Original Hyatt Inventory	UnitWks
---------------------------------------
Sunset Harbor	                2,040
Beach House	                3,774
High Sierra	                3,060
Windward Pointe	                4,743
Highlands Inn	                4,794
Coconut Plantation	        3,672
Pinon Pointe	                5,559
Wild Oak Ranch	                2,448
Grand Aspen	                2,601

As of December 31, 2014 - there were 28,946 Club Members enrolled in the exchange program.

The concept of "unit weeks" is just so we can compare with HPC - it's the number of units in Hyatt multiplied by 51 wks/year. So the number above are the "total" unit weeks a resort could support.

Now, here is the current HPC inventory as of July 2019 (cf: Tabular Description of Component Sites, HPC Contracts):

HPC Inventory		        UnitWks
---------------------------------------
Sunset Harbor	                   31 
Beach House	                   42 
High Sierra	                   20 
Windward Pointe	                  458 
Highlands Inn	                  496 
Coconut Plantation	          218 *** 
Pinon Pointe	                  101 
Wild Oak Ranch	                1,883 **
Grand Aspen	                  207

As of December 31, 2018 - there were 3,126 Club Members enrolled in the exchange program.

** Wild Oak Ranch started out with 717 UnitWks, and HPC added 1,166 more UnitWks on June 2019 with the construction of the new building. This is the only addition of inventory since HPC started. NB: When a HRC ownership "converts" they do not permanently contribute to the HPC inventory.

*** Coconut Plantation is completing their fourth building and so we can expect an increase in UnitWks there shortly.

Nearly half the HPC inventory is Wild Oak Ranch, and only a moderate amount is at Windward Pointe and Highlands Inn! The "nine HPC" resort inventory is practically just in those three (soon to be four) resorts.

Furthermore, simple math can get you an estimate of the ratio of HRC and HPC inventory. Let's take Highlands Inn for example:

Highlands Inn

4,794 Unit weeks total
496 Unit weeks in the HPC Inventory

Quick subtraction would indicate there are currently 4,298 Unit weeks in HRC Inventory and 496 Unit weeks in HPC Inventory. Keeping in mind those 4,298 HRC Unit weeks were sold over a decade before the HPC, the HPC weeks are likely the "dregs". You're likely going to be choosing HRC inventory vs HPC inventory.

Here are some charts:

Chart 1: HPC Inventory as a percentage of total "unit weeks"

Chart 2: HPC (Red) vs HRC (Blue) Inventory at various resorts

(So if you want more WOR, you may want to consider HPC...)

(Sales always love to hate on Pinon Pointe, where annual fees are low and resale buyers love to purchase into... but there's not a lot of HPC inventory there!)

(High Sierra is one of the nine HPC resorts... but not really!)

 

[peas]

Wow, I knew they didn't have much at Sunset Harbor from the board, but it's surprising how little they have across the board, especially at high sierra.

 

[alameda94501]

Wow, I knew they didn't have much at Sunset Harbor from the board, but it's surprising how little they have across the board, especially at high sierra.

I took a look at High Sierra, and here is the breakdown of those units:

Wk    Unit    Pts
 1    212    1600
 2    212    1400
 3    313    1400
 4    222    1400
 9    423    1880
12    424    1400
14    422    1400
15    222    1310
15    321    1310
18    324    1300
22    423    1880
42    223    1300
42    611    1300
44    314    1300
44    321    1300
45    313    1300
45    432    1300
45    532    1300
47    514    1100
50    531    1310

It doesn't appear to have a lot of choice unit weeks in there.

For the two larger HPC holdings, Windward Pointe and High Sierra, I created two graphs for week and units:

Windward Pointe

Dark Green = HPC Inventory
Light Green = HRC Inventory

HPC inventory is mainly around the Silver and Bronze weeks.


Highlands Inn

The remnants of developer inventory that went into HPC appears more evenly distributed here.

 

[alameda94501]

And here's Pinon Pointe (dark green = HPC inventory, light green = HRC inventory)

 

[Sapper]

I took a look at High Sierra, and here is the breakdown of those units:

Wk    Unit    Pts
 1    212    1600
 2    212    1400
 3    313    1400
 4    222    1400
 9    423    1880
12    424    1400
14    422    1400
15    222    1310
15    321    1310
18    324    1300
22    423    1880
42    223    1300
42    611    1300
44    314    1300
44    321    1300
45    313    1300
45    432    1300
45    532    1300
47    514    1100
50    531    1310

It doesn't appear to have a lot of choice unit weeks in there.

For the two larger HPC holdings, Windward Pointe and High Sierra, I created two graphs for week and units:

Windward Pointe

View attachment 13579
Dark Green = HPC Inventory
Light Green = HRC Inventory

HPC inventory is mainly around the Silver and Bronze weeks.


Highlands Inn

View attachment 13578

The remnants of developer inventory that went into HPC appears more evenly distributed here.

What is your source for such specific data?

 

[alameda94501]

What is your source for such specific data?

We are fortunate to have a vigilent TUGger who contacted me with some additional information from the public record.

Attached is the Trust Developer's Notice of Addition and Notice of Activation of Trust Property to HPC Trust for each of the properties in the HPC Portfolio.

Note that I think there are some errors in the file, for example Pinon Pointe doesn't add up. They may have missed declaring some units.

 

[alameda94501]

Based on scanning in the above file, for all the properties except Wild Oak Ranch (too much processing!) I put it into this worksheet for you all to analyze. The format is Microsoft Excel XLSX.

 

[peas]

Thank you to the TUGger who obtained the information.

 

[Islnd]

I'm sorry .....I'm a newbie, don't own yet considering HRC. Is the point of all this to say:
1) Outside of Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation HPC inventory is very small....good luck if you own HPC and want to go to any of the other resorts?
2) How is this bad for Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation? Whether you own a deeded week or HPC there is plenty of inventory?
3) Resale on the other properties with low HPC inventory should be higher than at Wild Oak and Coconut?

 

[alameda94501]

I'm sorry .....I'm a newbie, don't own yet considering HRC. Is the point of all this to say:
1) Outside of Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation HPC inventory is very small....good luck if you own HPC and want to go to any of the other resorts?
2) How is this bad for Wild Oak and Coconut Plantation? Whether you own a deeded week or HPC there is plenty of inventory?
3) Resale on the other properties with low HPC inventory should be higher than at Wild Oak and Coconut?

No that's not the point. Everyone has their own use cases that are personal, so I am not saying anything is bad, but just casting a light on the HPC.

We in the HRC had been able for years to exchange into Developer owned deeds in various HRC resorts, and we never knew when we were doing so. We had expectations set of inventory availability, especially in the Wild Oak resort (and the others described above).

We cannot do that anymore, except as leftover inventory after HPC members get a six month jump on us.

Further, as other HRC members pony up the $13k to join the HPC, they can annually opt to exchange their week to give HPC priority to their week, so over time there will likely be less HRC CUP inventory and more HPC ORP inventory.

Resale pricing varies over time for a bunch of reasons. If you have an excellent broker they should get you the best deal for the resorts you enjoy.

 

[Eduardo Salido]

This is part of a series of posts:

Click here for the Introduction Post
Click here for the Request List, Wait List, and Reservations Post

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Probably the biggest issue an HRC owner thinks about in relation to the HPC is Inventory.

Inventory needs to be disclosed in the HPC Contract, so let's just start by looking at the numbers.

First, I have a list of legacy HRC inventory from 2015 (cf: Tabular Description of Component Sites, HRC Contracts) - before the introduction of the HPC:

Original Hyatt Inventory    UnitWks
---------------------------------------
Sunset Harbor                    2,040
Beach House                    3,774
High Sierra                    3,060
Windward Pointe                    4,743
Highlands Inn                    4,794
Coconut Plantation            3,672
Pinon Pointe                    5,559
Wild Oak Ranch                    2,448
Grand Aspen                    2,601

As of December 31, 2014 - there were 28,946 Club Members enrolled in the exchange program.

The concept of "unit weeks" is just so we can compare with HPC - it's the number of units in Hyatt multiplied by 51 wks/year. So the number above are the "total" unit weeks a resort could support.

Now, here is the current HPC inventory as of July 2019 (cf: Tabular Description of Component Sites, HPC Contracts):

HPC Inventory                UnitWks
---------------------------------------
Sunset Harbor                       31
Beach House                       42
High Sierra                       20
Windward Pointe                      458
Highlands Inn                      496
Coconut Plantation              218 ***
Pinon Pointe                      101
Wild Oak Ranch                    1,883 **
Grand Aspen                      207

As of December 31, 2018 - there were 3,126 Club Members enrolled in the exchange program.

** Wild Oak Ranch started out with 717 UnitWks, and HPC added 1,166 more UnitWks on June 2019 with the construction of the new building. This is the only addition of inventory since HPC started. NB: When a HRC ownership "converts" they do not permanently contribute to the HPC inventory.

*** Coconut Plantation is completing their fourth building and so we can expect an increase in UnitWks there shortly.

Nearly half the HPC inventory is Wild Oak Ranch, and only a moderate amount is at Windward Pointe and Highlands Inn! The "nine HPC" resort inventory is practically just in those three (soon to be four) resorts.

Furthermore, simple math can get you an estimate of the ratio of HRC and HPC inventory. Let's take Highlands Inn for example:

Highlands Inn

4,794 Unit weeks total
496 Unit weeks in the HPC Inventory

Quick subtraction would indicate there are currently 4,298 Unit weeks in HRC Inventory and 496 Unit weeks in HPC Inventory. Keeping in mind those 4,298 HRC Unit weeks were sold over a decade before the HPC, the HPC weeks are likely the "dregs". You're likely going to be choosing HRC inventory vs HPC inventory.

Here are some charts:

Chart 1: HPC Inventory as a percentage of total "unit weeks"

Chart 2: HPC (Red) vs HRC (Blue) Inventory at various resorts

(So if you want more WOR, you may want to consider HPC...)

(Sales always love to hate on Pinon Pointe, where annual fees are low and resale buyers love to purchase into... but there's not a lot of HPC inventory there!)

(High Sierra is one of the nine HPC resorts... but not really!)

New to ts. What’s HPC? Thanks

 

[Mongoose]

HPC Inventory UnitWks
---------------------------------------
Sunset Harbor 31
Beach House 42
High Sierra 20
Windward Pointe 458
Highlands Inn 496
Coconut Plantation 218 ***
Pinon Pointe 101
Wild Oak Ranch 1,883 **
Grand Aspen 207

Well Alameda, you did it again. Thank you. If I had any doubts before, this simple chart answers them all. Basically you have 3 resorts with any inventory. Its shocking how few HPC weeks are offered. My memory might be off, but I think the Welk Experiences Collection actually has more weeks available than the majority of HPC.

 

[alameda94501]

Well Alameda, you did it again. Thank you. If I had any doubts before, this simple chart answers them all. Basically you have 3 resorts with any inventory. Its shocking how few HPC weeks are offered. My memory might be off, but I think the Welk Experiences Collection actually has more weeks available than the majority of HPC.

That's their base inventory, but they've brought in (Kal would say 'suckered') a lot of folks into hybridizing according to my records based on Orange County FL's public records. Then they wisely dropped the Annual Conversion Fee from $133 to $0, so all of a sudden there's a lot of people converting their week each year into the Portfolio to add to this inventory...

 

[Mongoose]

That's their base inventory, but they've brought in (Kal would say 'suckered') a lot of folks into hybridizing according to my records based on Orange County FL's public records. Then they wisely dropped the Annual Conversion Fee from $133 to $0, so all of a sudden there's a lot of people converting their week each year into the Portfolio to add to this inventory...

Any idea what % of weeks are now HPC?

 

[alameda94501]

Any idea what % of weeks are now HPC?

They convert on an annual basis at their discretion (if they don't use their deeded week), so there's no absolute way to find out from the Public Record. My estimate is that there are at least 7,000 hybrid owners, each with one or more Legacy unit weeks to contribute. I believe they have sold out more than 80% of the entire Portfolio point basis.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

I seem to always be able to get weeks I want especially at Pinon Pointe even during spring break. I haven't felt the impact yet. We rented 4 rooms for a family trip with decent views. Mainly we use our exchanges for Maui though so haven't experimented with lots of the resorts.

 

[boraxo]

Wow. So this data suggests that HPC will not help me at all trading into ski weeks and as expected zero summer inventory when owners would rather rent their units for $6k per week.

I do not see a weekly inventory bar chart for Aspen - is there anything in ski season?

Seems like there is zero reason for me to flush $10-20k converting my HRC week to HPC as I have no interest in the other properties.

 

[alameda94501]

Wow. So this data suggests that HPC will not help me at all trading into ski weeks and as expected zero summer inventory when owners would rather rent their units for $6k per week.

I do not see a weekly inventory bar chart for Aspen - is there anything in ski season?

Seems like there is zero reason for me to flush $10-20k converting my HRC week to HPC as I have no interest in the other properties.

What's misleading about my data is that was just the baseline properties of the HPC (aka "the dregs"). What happened after 2017 was that they sold a majority of these points slowly out to hybridize HRC. Then in 2020 - they no longer charge $133 to annually convert people's HRC week to HPC and made it $0.

So every year, there is a shadow inventory pulled out of HRPP/HRC and dumped into HPC from every resort, including HRC-only resorts like Maui, which we HRC legacy owners cannot see in the HPC "ORP" period (12mo-6mo).

For Aspen, the weeks are choice weeks - I'm not sure but they look to be all in ski season.

 

[Mongoose]

Wow. So this data suggests that HPC will not help me at all trading into ski weeks and as expected zero summer inventory when owners would rather rent their units for $6k per week.

I do not see a weekly inventory bar chart for Aspen - is there anything in ski season?

Seems like there is zero reason for me to flush $10-20k converting my HRC week to HPC as I have no interest in the other properties.

People spend $100k+ for prime ski weeks. Not a lot of prime weeks are made available to trade. Your best bet is probably to setup an ongoing search 18 months out every year in II.

 

[ArizonaSun4Fun]

Any idea what % of weeks are now HPC?

I attended a sales presentation at Coconut Plantation earlier this month, where I was told that 38% of HRC members have purchased at least the minimum level of HPC points to join that program (660 pts) with the option of converting their HRC weeks to HPC points each year. Availability to make reservations at all resorts (except Maui) with HPC points has been greatly enhanced as a result. Although the sales person's lips were moving, I'm pretty sure that the 38% is an accurate number.

 

[Kal]

If you believe the huckster, you should stay away from presentations. They are out to peddle points and will say anything that makes the sale. So if the 38% number is remotely close, that says 62% of owners don't want anything to do with it. I just attended the Maui presentation and the sales people said they are SOOOOO glad they don't have to sell the Portfolio system. If the huckster hates it, that tells you something.

 

[Mongoose]

I attended a sales presentation at Coconut Plantation earlier this month, where I was told that 38% of HRC members have purchased at least the minimum level of HPC points to join that program (660 pts) with the option of converting their HRC weeks to HPC points each year. Availability to make reservations at all resorts (except Maui) with HPC points has been greatly enhanced as a result. Although the sales person's lips were moving, I'm pretty sure that the 38% is an accurate number.

OK, but if they purchase the 660, they still have their deeded week so no additional inventory is created for HPC?

 

[alameda94501]

OK, but if they purchase the 660, they still have their deeded week so no additional inventory is created for HPC?

That's true, but given the annual conversion fee has been reduced to $0, it always makes sense for them to take their deeded week and deposit it to HPC inventory except when they use it HRPP.

 

[Mongoose]

That's true, but given the annual conversion fee has been reduced to $0, it always makes sense for them to take their deeded week and deposit it to HPC inventory except when they use it HRPP.

If you make that deposit can you then access HRC with the combined points or only HPC? Does it extend your points beyond 12 months?

 

[alameda94501]

If you make that deposit can you then access HRC with the combined points or only HPC? Does it extend your points beyond 12 months?

Not sure if this helps: You can think of Portfolio like a big club of mainly other HRC legacy owners who ganged together to buy all the dregs of unsold inventory at a discount from the original developer. Sometimes they add to this inventory with their own week.

They can access the Portfolio's deeded week from 12mo-6mo (which is when we usually in legacy can decide on HRPP). They call this ORP.

Then all weeks go into legacy CUP/LCUP from 6mo-0mo, where both the "club" and legacy HRC can access it.

So whether they make that deposit/"annual conversion" or not, they can access ORP (but with less points if they don't make the deposit) from 12mo-6mo, and CUP/LCUP (for the original Portfolio weeks and all of legacy non-HRPP) from 6mo-0mo.

Their Portfolio points can be banked/borrowed because they have enough slop to account for this internally.