[HPC Contract Talk] Introduction (How the HPC affects HRC members)

alameda94501 · Aug 19, 2019

This is part of a series of posts:

Click here for the HRC and HPC Inventory Post
Click here for the Request List, Wait List, and Reservations Post
Click here for the Annual Conversion Option Post

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Introduction. About six weeks ago I sat through yet another HPC Owners Update and listened in on the latest with the HPC (aka PPP, or HPP - but Hyatt calls it officially HPC, so I'll use that here.)

I got to a point where I found myself listening because of a few things:

Honestly, our family loves our Hyatt unit weeks. The resorts are great, the service great, and the whole vacation experience is awesome. I really want to support and enhance the brand and experience, and the only avenues to do this (besides the Chase Hyatt credit card) is the HPC program. They don't sell HRC any more in the resorts we go to.
The argument on losing out on inventory is of concern. Yes, we all log into TUGBBS and poo-poo the HPC ... but if more and more HRC owners are buying into the HPC, the paranoia of a possibility that HRC inventory eventually will be affected creeps in. The sales person showed us an online session where at our resort there were 10x more HPC unit reservation options available over HRC unit reservation options.
Mechanically, the HPC points system seems a lot easier to understand than the HRC points system. The idea of banking, borrowing, and specifying a unit all seems great. And they bias the HPC system so that HPC members have equal rights to CUP inventory as HRC members, but HRC members are at a loss in drawing from HPC inventory. (More on that in another post)
We have got excellent posts in the last two years on the HPC in this forum, but the problem is that I couldn't always find answers. I ended up starting to try and remember what was said in each thread and hoping I could remember who said what so I could search for that.

My Perspective. Our use case is that we have a couple school-age daughters and can only squeeze in on the longer weekends for school breaks. We purchased our HRC resale weeks mainly for the CUP points rather than HRPP because there's only Christmas and Summer that we could possibly use a 7-day stretch of days. We owe this all to the community here, who have been so great in guiding us in these uncharted resale waters.

Also, we have never used the HRC Request List or Wait List and have in three years spent all our CUP happily - we have never wasted a point.

But for those three reasons above, after posting here last year that I would never buy HPC points... I bought 660 HPC points

.

SPOILER ALERT: After reviewing the 503 pages of HPC Contract language in my 10 days, and talking to 1-800-GO-HYATT, I realized that many of the sales arguments to buy into HPC were not true for me, and I rescinded at the last minute.

To be clear: I did not go in thinking I would rescind, and I wasn't playing games with the sales folks.

But I found there were so many questions I had that could only be answered by the contracts of the HPC Agreements, the shared Club-to-Club Exchange Agreement, and the written Exhibits that I thought it would be helpful to take a series of posts tagged as "[HPC Contract Talk]" that show and discuss specific language in the HPC Contract for those who have questions on what the actual program is, and how it relates to HRC inventory (both developer purchased and resale purchased). I hope it will be helpful to the HRC members here... even if it's just to counter your next Owner's Update meeting.

Content: Here is my list of things to tackle - and I'm open to more topics too, just ask in this thread!

Inventory - HRC Inventory and HPC Inventory as of June 2019
Request List, Wait List, and Reservations - HRC and HPC
HRC Conversion Option to HPC and HPC Membership Tiers - Who and How it works
What is Hyattizing? Developer Benefit - World of Hyatt
Sales Tactics using HPC and HRC Reservation Website

Intended Audience: Over time there will be at least four types of ownership in the Hyatt system:

HRC Developer Benefit Ownership (e.g. with the Gold Passport program)
HRC Resale Ownership
HPC Developer Benefit Ownership (e.g. with the World of Hyatt program)
HPC Resale Ownership

And of course, one person can be an owner of all four types of ownership! I'll be primarily discussing the HPC contract in reference to #2 and #1, but welcome topics and comments from #3 and #4 ownership too.

bdh · Aug 20, 2019

alameda94501 said:
Introduction. About six weeks ago I sat through yet another HPC Owners Update and listened in on the latest with the HPC (aka PPP, or HPP - but Hyatt calls it officially HPC, so I'll use that here.)

I got to a point where I found myself listening because of a few things:

Honestly, our family loves our Hyatt unit weeks. The resorts are great, the service great, and the whole vacation experience is awesome. I really want to support and enhance the brand and experience, and the only avenues to do this (besides the Chase Hyatt credit card) is the HPC program. They don't sell HRC any more in the resorts we go to.

The argument on losing out on inventory is of concern. Yes, we all log into TUGBBS and poo-poo the HPC ... but if more and more HRC owners are buying into the HPC, the paranoia of a possibility that HRC inventory eventually will be affected creeps in. The sales person showed us an online session where at our resort there were 10x more HPC unit reservation options available over HRC unit reservation options.

Mechanically, the HPC points system seems a lot easier to understand than the HRC points system. The idea of banking, borrowing, and specifying a unit all seems great. And they bias the HPC system so that HPC members have equal rights to CUP inventory as HRC members, but HRC members are at a loss in drawing from HPC inventory. (More on that in another post)

We have got excellent posts in the last two years on the HPC in this forum, but the problem is that I couldn't always find answers. I ended up starting to try and remember what was said in each thread and hoping I could remember who said what so I could search for that.

My Perspective. Our use case is that we have a couple school-age daughters and can only squeeze in on the longer weekends for school breaks. We purchased our HRC resale weeks mainly for the CUP points rather than HRPP because there's only Christmas and Summer that we could possibly use a 7-day stretch of days. We owe this all to the community here, who have been so great in guiding us in these uncharted resale waters.

Also, we have never used the HRC Request List or Wait List and have in three years spent all our CUP happily - we have never wasted a point.

But for those three reasons above, after posting here last year that I would never buy HPC points... I bought 660 HPC points .

SPOILER ALERT: After reviewing the 503 pages of HPC Contract language in my 10 days, and talking to 1-800-GO-HYATT, I realized that many of the sales arguments to buy into HPC were not true for me, and I rescinded at the last minute.

To be clear: I did not go in thinking I would rescind, and I wasn't playing games with the sales folks.

But I found there were so many questions I had that could only be answered by the contracts of the HPC Agreements, the shared Club-to-Club Exchange Agreement, and the written Exhibits that I thought it would be helpful to take a series of posts tagged as "[HPC Contract Talk]" that show and discuss specific language in the HPC Contract for those who have questions on what the actual program is, and how it relates to HRC inventory (both developer purchased and resale purchased). I hope it will be helpful to the HRC members here... even if it's just to counter your next Owner's Update meeting.

Content: Here is my list of things to tackle - and I'm open to more topics too, just ask in this thread!

Inventory - HRC Inventory and HPC Inventory as of June 2019

Request List, Wait List, and Reservations - HRC and HPC

HRC Conversion Option to HPC and HPC Membership Tiers - Who and How it works

Developer Benefit - World of Hyatt

Sales Tactics using HPC and HRC Reservation Website

Intended Audience: Over time there will be at least four types of ownership in the Hyatt system:

HRC Developer Benefit Ownership (e.g. with the Gold Passport program)

HRC Resale Ownership

HPC Developer Benefit Ownership (e.g. with the World of Hyatt program)

HPC Resale Ownership

And of course, one person can be an owner of all four types of ownership! I'll be primarily discussing the HPC contract in reference to #2 and #1, but welcome topics and comments from #3 and #4 ownership too.

You covered a lot of ground/material in your post - lots of good info and topics.

As with all TS systems and properties, due to the variation in how a person/family uses their TS (one ex: always go to the same property vs always go to a different property) there is no singular "best" TS. HPP may work better for your usage - however HRC is a slam dunk better product for our usage as we're the inverse of you (we use HRPP about 90% of the time).

Regarding a few of your comments:

"If more and more HRC owners are buying into the HPC, the paranoia of a possibility that HRC inventory eventually will be affected creeps in." Hyatt appears to be concentrating on selling HPP to existing HRC owners, expect that to be for two reasons. 1. Its easier to get an HRC owner to part with $13.2K for 660 pts than it is get a newbie to part with $44k for 2200 pts. 2. Selling to an HRC owner has a good chance of getting that owner to turn in their HRC week on a annual basis. This scenario creates more availability to HPP at a significantly lower cost than adding HPP inventory via ROFR or building new resorts/buildings. Theoretically, there's a tipping point when enough HRC owners are also in HPP, that HPP will have more availability than HRC - however, theoretically the sun will burn out too. Based on numerous conversations with HRC/HPP owners, it is a small minority of HRC owners that are buying HPP. And those that do buy, are doing so to improve their chances of reservation confirmation at hard to get properties/weeks. Based on recent comments from those HPP buyers, they've had limited success in getting those reservation confirmations - so there's some disillusion creeping into HPP with those folks as the sales staff pitch of improved access isn't ringing true at the moment.

"The sales person showed us an online session where at our resort there were 10x more HPC unit reservation options available over HRC unit reservation options." The number of HPP vs HRC reservation options is going to vary dramatically by property. IE: Windward Pointe has lots of units (2000+) - Sunset Harbor has only a few (last count was 33). The number of units available will also be affected by the search parameters. IE: Searching for 7 night availability or 1 night availability? A search of more that 6 months out would also limit the HRC numbers as the majority of weeks would still be in HRPP (and show as not available until CUP time rolls around) or already booked by the owner via HRPP. So it would be helpful to know what property you were at and what the search parameters were.

"Intended Audience: HPC Resale Ownership." - Since a HPP owner owns nothing other than some points in the Hyatt trust, there is no buyer other than Hyatt - and Hyatt is not buying back any points (Disillusioned HPP buyers have tried). I'm thinking there are better odds of finding a unicorn than there is an HPP Resale Owner. I'd say the 4th type of Hyatt owner is the Hybrid - owns both HRC and HPP.

I'm interested in hearing some positive comments on the HPP system from HPP owner's first hand experience - however, TUG may not be the best location for that info as the TUG crowd is notoriously thrifty (and most likely would not be paying/buying at the HPP price point - so by default, wouldn't be a TUGGER here to report.)

alameda94501 · Aug 20, 2019

bdh said:
"The sales person showed us an online session where at our resort there were 10x more HPC unit reservation options available over HRC unit reservation options." The number of HPP vs HRC reservation options is going to vary dramatically by property. IE: Windward Pointe has lots of units (2000+) - Sunset Harbor has only a few (last count was 33). The number of units available will also be affected by the search parameters. IE: Searching for 7 night availability or 1 night availability? A search of more that 6 months out would also limit the HRC numbers as the majority of weeks would still be in HRPP (and show as not available until CUP time rolls around) or already booked by the owner via HRPP. So it would be helpful to know what property you were at and what the search parameters were.

Spoiler Alert. I'm only on the fourth post in this series, but in post number six I'll demonstrate a trick when it comes to this that show the sales person's online session is not at all what it seems...