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[HPC Contract Talk] Hyattizing and the Developer Benefit

alameda94501

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This is part of a series of posts:

Click here for the Introduction Post
Click here for the HRC and HPC Inventory Post
Click here for the Request List, Wait List, and Reservations Post
Click here for the Annual Conversion Option Post

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

If you have been to an HPC sales session as an HRC owner, they cordon off HRC owners (60 minute presentation) from new people who do not own in the HRC (90 minute presentation). So all the folks you are with are HRC owners themselves.

If you are a resale HRC owner, talk turns to "Hyattizing" your resale property. The sales staff know there's a grey market and that a possible line of attack for sales is getting you to feel "cleansed" by bringing your resale week back into developer status.

Originally from my second HPC meeting I had posted on TUG this document:

upload_2019-8-27_10-58-41.png


This document says that to Hyattize resale weeks depends on how many weeks an "unauthorized HRC resale" customer has, so if you had three Diamond weeks you would need to purchase around $30k in HPC points.

About six months ago there were reports in TUGbbs that has gone drastically down to just purchasing 660 points or ~$13k. I confirmed that a few months ago when I was in a sales session and purchased 660 points to "Hyattize" all weeks.

BUT... what does Hyattizing really mean? This is the contract boilerplate they use when you Hyattize, which you only get to see if you actually go ahead with the purchase:

-----------------------------------------------------------

HYATT RESIDENCE CLUB PORTFOLIO

DEVELOPER'S INCIDENTAL BENEFIT UPGRADE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
As a Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Member, who has a contract for the purchase of a timeshare interest from HPC Developer, LLC, valued at <<YOUR HPC DOLLAR AMOUNT TODAY>> you are eligible for the Developer's Incidental Benefit Upgrade on your resale week purchase for << YOUR OLD RESORT>>,<<YOUR OLD CONTRACT>>,<<YOUR OLD UNIT>>,<<YOUR OLD WEEK>>

Hyatt Residence Club Member Name: << YOUR NAME>> Resale Contract No. Purchased <<YOUR OLD CONTRACT>>Developer Inventory Purchasing: <<YOUR NEW HPC PURCHASE TODAY>>

1. Participation in the World of Hyatt Exchange Program (the "Program") is a benefit offered by the HPC Developer, LLC (the "Developer"). Developer may, but is not obligated to, offer to owners of Resale Intervals the right to participate in the Program, subject to the following conditions:

a. Owner of the Resale Interval must purchase an interest at a price of at least Twelve Thousand Five Hundred Dollars ($12,500.00).

b. The Developer will allow one Resale Interval to participate in the Program for every qualifying Developer Interest purchased subsequent to the purchase of the resale Interval.

c. The continued participation in the Program is subject to the owner remaining in good standing on their obligations related to the Developer Interest.

d. The Developer reserves the right, at their sole discretion, to terminate this program at any time; however Owners of Resale Intervals that have purchased a Developer Interest prior to the Program termination date will be allowed continued access to the Program subject to the above condition c.

e. This resale benefit will never allow an original resale purchase that has elected the developer's incidental benefit to be able to upgrade into a developer interest in the future.

2. After closing of your Developer Purchase Contract No. <<YOUR NEW HPC CONTRACT TODAY>>, your resale week purchase for << YOUR OLD RESORT>>,<<YOUR OLD CONTRACT>>,<<YOUR OLD UNIT>>,<<YOUR OLD WEEK>> will be eligible to exchange the use of your Fixed Week or your Floating Club Points, if applicable, for the right to access the World of Hyatt Program, subject to terms and conditions of the Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Member's access to the World of Hyatt Program, and the World of Hyatt Program Terms and Conditions.

3. Your participation in the World of Hyatt Program shall be pursuant to any rules, terms or conditions set forth by Hyatt Corporation ("Hyatt") for the World of Hyatt Program from time to time, and the Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Rules and Regulations.

4. The continued availability of the Developer's Incidental Benefits is not necessary for a purchaser's use and enjoyment of their timeshare interest.

5. Hyatt may terminate or modify the World of Hyatt Program at any time, with or without advance notice. The World of Hyatt Program is subject to additions, modifications, and/or deletions, with or without notice, by Hyatt in its sole discretion. HVGG and the Developer reserve the right to change, limit, add, modify, or delete any of the rules, terms, conditions, benefits, or point award levels pertaining to the Club Members' participation in the World of Hyatt Program, with or without notice, in their sole discretion, at any time.

6. Use of, or participation in, the above-listed incidental benefits is completely voluntary and payment of any fee(s) or other cost(s) associated with the incidental benefits is required only upon such use or participation; provided, however, that if applicable, the value of any World of Hyatt Bonus Point that have vested prior to the end of your rescission period will be deducted as described above.

7. The Developer's Incidental Benefits listed above are not assignable or otherwise transferrable by a purchaser.

8. The Developer's Incidental Benefits described above may not be transferred and the sale, rental or other commercial use of any Hyatt Residence Club Portfolio Points or any other developer incidental benefit described above by you is prohibited. Therefore, the represented monetary value of the Developer's Incidental Benefits described above is $0.00.

In the event any developer's incidental benefits described in this statement becomes unavailable as a result of events beyond the control of the developer, the developer reserves the right to substitute a replacement developer incidental benefit of a type, quality, value, and term reasonably similar to the available developer incidental benefit.

The developer's incidental benefits described in this statement are offered to prospective purchasers of the vacation ownership plan. These benefits are available for your use for a period of two (2) years or less after the first date that the vacation ownership plan is available for your use. The availability of the developer's incidental benefits may or may not be renewed or extended. You should not purchase an interest in the vacation ownership plan in reliance upon the continued availability, or renewal or extension of these benefits.

PURCHASER(S)

<<YOUR SIGNATURE(s)>>
<<YOUR NAME(s)>>

____________
<<DATE(s)>>


-----------------------------------------------------------

My three take aways are that:

1. You need to spend at least $12,500 in that boilerplate (no matter what you negotiate with the sales staff) to get into World of Hyatt. It does seem however like they have broken down and allow multiple weeks under a single $12,500+ purchase.

2. These ONLY pertain to the (questionable) World of Hyatt conversion options. As described in this thread, the Annual Conversion Option in the contracts does not specify any minimum number of new HPC points, or a separate call-out contract like this one.

3. The final paragraph: "The developer's incidental benefits described in this statement are offered to prospective purchasers of the vacation ownership plan. These benefits are available for your use for a period of two (2) years or less after the first date that the vacation ownership plan is available for your use. The availability of the developer's incidental benefits may or may not be renewed or extended. You should not purchase an interest in the vacation ownership plan in reliance upon the continued availability, or renewal or extension of these benefits. "

Well... that's kinda their primary sales strategy right? Many are "Hyattizing" to cleanse their resale weeks for life, not for two years. That's ~$6,500 a year to use World of Hyatt conversion. And that doesn't even get to how awful a deal WOH conversion is!

Note that if you look at the World of Hyatt benefits for new owners, those benefits don't have a two year guarantee. This is just for resale owners.
 
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Kal

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My reading is that the "Hyattizing" is good for a period of two (2) years or less. That would appear to mean the HPC member is subject to further payments to the HPC to continue the dance.
 

alameda94501

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Thank you for all the encouragement (public and private)!

To continue this topic, let's look at the HPC Contract (cf: 5.4 of HYATT RESIDENCE CLUB PORTFOLIO HPC VACATION OWNERSHIP PLAN RESERVATION RULES AND REGULATIONS). Note, there's no discussion on a two year limit:

5.4 HPC Club Benefits Programs; World of Hyatt Program.

a. World of Hyatt Program. An HPC Club Owner who is interested in accessing the vacation and travel benefits of the World of Hyatt Program and who meets the qualifications set forth in subsection (5) below to participate in the World of Hyatt Program may contact Reservation Services to convert some or all of such HPC Club Owner’s HPC Club Points into World of Hyatt Bonus Points. The following conditions apply to the World of Hyatt Program:

(1) Reservations. HPC Club Owners may only contact Reservation Services to request a conversion of HPC Club Points into World of Hyatt Bonus Points during the World of Hyatt Conversion Period which begins twelve (12) months before a given Use Year and ends one (1) day before a given Use Year. An HPC Club Owner must be in compliance with the Vacation Ownership Documents, current in the payment of the HPC Club Assessments, and current in payment of the Owner’s Vacation Ownership Interest purchase money obligations in order to request a conversion or to convert HPC Club Points into World of Hyatt Bonus Points. World of Hyatt Bonus Points received are valid for use in the World of Hyatt Program at any time in accordance with the terms and conditions of the World of Hyatt Program. The number of World of Hyatt Bonus Points awarded to an HPC Club Owner will be as set forth on the World of Hyatt Point Chart as established from time to time. The conversion rate for World of Hyatt Bonus Points may vary by Membership Tier Level, and the conversion rate shall be set forth on the Membership Tier Level Chart, as amended from time to time. Under no circumstances will an HPC Club Owner be permitted to convert World of Hyatt Bonus Points into HPC Club Points. Reservations through the World of Hyatt Program are governed by the World of Hyatt Terms and Conditions Handbook and participation in the World of Hyatt Program is based on the terms and conditions of the World of Hyatt Terms and Conditions Handbook and these HPC Club Reservation Rules and Regulations, as both may be amended from time to time. HPC Club Owners should anticipate at least ten (10) business days before being able to access their World of Hyatt Bonus Points to make a reservation through the World of Hyatt Program.

(2) Fees. HPC Club Owners desiring to convert their HPC Club Points to World of Hyatt Bonus Points will be assessed a transaction fee by Reservation Services Operator as established from time to time, which shall be set forth on the Club Fee and Transaction Fee Chart.

(3) Rights of Reservation Services Operator. Reservation Services Operator reserves the right to limit the number of HPC Club Points that can be converted to World of Hyatt Bonus Points in any given Use Year. Reservation Services Operator is entitled to use the HPC Club Points that have been converted into the World of Hyatt Program to reserve any available inventory in the HPC Club including, but not limited to, the best possible Vacation Periods that Reservation Services Operator is able to reserve in order to help defray the cost of the World of Hyatt Program. This right shall entitle Reservation Services Operator to reserve a number of Vacation Periods, from time to time, that have not been timely reserved during an Owner Reservation Period, based upon Reservation Services Operator’s determination, in its discretion, of anticipated Owner demand to access the World of Hyatt Program. Reservation Services Operator also has the priority right to reserve any available inventory during the HPC Club Priority Period in order help defray the cost of the World of Hyatt Program. Furthermore, Reservation Services Operator is entitled to be placed on the Request List or Wait List for any Vacation Period, as Reservation Services Operator deems necessary in order to help defray the cost of the World of Hyatt Program, and Reservation Services Operator shall have priority over all other HPC Club Owners on the Request List or Wait List for such Vacation Period.

(4) Termination of World of Hyatt Program.

Reservation Services Operator may terminate the World of Hyatt Program at any time.
(5) Limitations on Participation. Only those HPC Club Owners who (i) are enrolled in the World of Hyatt Program; and (ii) purchased their Vacation Ownership Interest from the original developer of the HPC Club or from a Reservation Services Operator-approved reseller or broker (or inherited their Vacation Ownership Interest from such an owner) may participate in the World of Hyatt Program.
b. Other HPC Club Benefits Programs. Reservation Services Operator may offer other special benefits to HPC Club Owners, from time to time, through its HPC Club Benefits Program. Reservation Services Operator reserves the right to establish such rules and regulations as it deems necessary to adequately govern HPC Club Owner access to the HPC Club Benefits Program.


 

alameda94501

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My reading is that the "Hyattizing" is good for a period of two (2) years or less. That would appear to mean the HPC member is subject to further payments to the HPC to continue the dance.

Hah, just noticed "two (2) years or less". So giving you Developer Benefits for exactly 10 days (the rescission period), which is "two (2) years or less" since 10 days is less than two years, is well within HPC's rights!
 

peas

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In light of how every single sales pitch to me was about how my resales would be hyattized with WOH benefits, it never occurred to me to ask how long this benefit would last. They made it seem like a forever proposition. Wow, that's pretty shady--the more I think about our past 2 HPC presentations, that's downright snake oil salesy. That's a new low for Hyatt. What a rude awakening for anyone who bought HPC for these benefits after 2 years.
 

scootr5

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In light of how every single sales pitch to me was about how my resales would be hyattized with WOH benefits, it never occurred to me to ask how long this benefit would last. They made it seem like a forever proposition. Wow, that's pretty shady--the more I think about our past 2 HPC presentations, that's downright snake oil salesy. That's a new low for Hyatt. What a rude awakening for anyone who bought HPC for these benefits after 2 years.
I think it's important to note that it does not mean that they will exercise the right to cut out that option after two years, but rather that they can (although there is no way I would sign a contract with that language).
 

alameda94501

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Yes, I actually think the sales rank and file are not aware of this provision.

Even on the day of the signing (before my rescission) I called over the manager. He really had no answer for it.

I do think it's just an out for their lawyers, but what gets me is the sentence "You should not purchase an interest in the vacation ownership plan in reliance upon the continued availability, or renewal or extension of these benefits."

Isn't that their big sales pitch? They've already protected themselves in the main agreements on what happens if Hyatt Hotels ends the program.

We aren't being sold it for the expensive HPC points!
 
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heathpack

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I think it's important to note that it does not mean that they will exercise the right to cut out that option after two years, but rather that they can (although there is no way I would sign a contract with that language).
It actually says that the World of Hyatt access is available for a period of two years or less. And that they may renew or extend it.

The default position is two years of access. The optional position is Hyatt extending or renewing after two years.

Very big difference from “World of Hyatt access. Period. Indefinitely. (We might change that someday.) (But trust us, we won’t.)”

Of course they represent to buyers that they are selling people World of Hyatt Access. Period.

It’s really disgusting to me.
 

tahoeJoe

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What does it mean to Hyattaizie a resale purchase? I thought the only difference between resale owners and developer purchase was the ability to convert to World of Hyatt points every other year? This is considered a poor use of points so what is the advantage of Hyattizing a resale week?
 

alameda94501

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It is generally considered a poor use of points, and not what someone who has already purchased HRC resale is looking for.

But if you wade through a "hybridize" sales pitch, the sales staff are themselves confused on Hyattizing:

1. They say you are out in the cold because you are not part of the HPC Club (true to a certain extent but with regards to HPC Inventory, as detailed here for the HRC and HPC Inventory Post.)

2. They say if you buy today you can bring in all your weeks and points to the HPC Club (true, but that's by virtue of the Annual Conversion Option, detailed here for the Annual Conversion Option Post)

According to the contract, the Annual Conversion Option has a low barrier to entry of having purchased a Developer interest of at least 1 point not from resale... not the high barrier of buying at least $12,500 to get World of Hyatt privileges.

3. Finally they cap off with high pressure, fear of missing out, Hyatt doesn't really want your week but they will make an exception, blah blah blah.

If you ask for a single point they will say the minimum is 660 which is $13,926 because they believe you want both the Annual Conversion Option and World of Hyatt benefits.

It's the World of Hyatt benefits that are both expensive and apparently fleeting at "two or less years" of guaranteed participation.
 
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Tucsonadventurer

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It is generally considered a poor use of points, and not what someone who has already purchased HRC resale is looking for.

But if you wade through a "hybridize" sales pitch, the sales staff are themselves confused on Hyattizing:

1. They say you are out in the cold because you are not part of the HPC Club (true to a certain extent but with regards to HPC Inventory, as detailed
here for the HRC and HPC Inventory Post.)

2. They say if you buy today you can bring in all your weeks and points to the HPC Club (true, but that's by virtue of the Annual Conversion Option, detailed here for the Annual Conversion Option Post)

According to the contract, the Annual Conversion Option has a low barrier to entry of having purchased a Developer interest of at least 1 point not from resale... not the high barrier of buying at least $12,500 to get World of Hyatt privileges.

3. Finally they cap off with high pressure, fear of missing out, Hyatt doesn't really want your week but they will make an exception, blah blah blah.

If you ask for a single point they will say the minimum is 660 which is $13,926 because they believe you want both the Annual Conversion Option and World of Hyatt benefits.

It's the World of Hyatt benefits that are both expensive and apparently fleeting at "two or less years" of guaranteed participation.
To me the only benefit would be protection from Marriott as they may well change the rules on resale owners being able to exchange as we now do. But since that is still an unknown it is worth staying put. Plus 2 years is ridiculous.
 
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