How Would You "Tier" Timeshare Properties?

[ronparise]

When you say Wyndham would be number 1 in locations, do you mean the number of locations in the US or the world?

Ive always considered the US to be "in the world" Wyndham also has a Asia Pacific division...Europe, not so much

 

[Bill4728]

Any ranking will be biased by what people own, the DRI contingency hasn't weighed in yet . . . .

I would not put Worldmark and Wyndham at the same level, the higher maintenance fees of WVO allow for more upscale finishes . IMHO

I could not agree more. BUT IMHO WM should be ahead of Wyn not the other way around. Not because they are nicer then wyn resorts but because Worldmark is still sold for real money on the resale market, most Club Wyndham resorts are not.

Maybe that is the way to look at it. What resorts still sell for a significant amount of money on the resale market? IMHO, Those are the top resort systems. If you can not give away a resort in the system, they are not top tier.

 

[ronparise]

I think the problem with Wyndham is the variability among the different resorts. Some resorts rival Marriott/Starwood while others are definitely a notch below. The top tier resorts offer a lot more consistent and predictable quality among their resorts.

I, like you, own Worldmark. Primarily it's for location and secondarily because of the flexibility and trading ability. I have no problem admitting that WM resorts, generally speaking, are a clear notch below the top tier resort systems. Fortunately our maintenance fees reflect that.

No doubt when it comes to "star quality" Wyndham comes in below the top tier. I would never argue that. Neither would I argue about consistancy...Wyndham is no McDonalds. But if you were to rank "value for a buck" Wyndham and Worldmark are right up there

The op asked for thoughts regarding ranking....My thought is that "star quality" is not as important as location. I dont care how nice Marriott resorts might be, if they dont have a resort where I want to be, they dont rank

For me the difference in quality between for example, Wyndhams Star Island, and Marriotts Lake Shore Reserve dosent justify the nearly $600 difference in mf, How different can the be, really..both have beds with mattresses and pillows, and both have indoor plumbing, and as Grannie used to say..both have cement ponds you can use.

Its the same thinking thats behind the fact I drive a Toyota, and not a Lexus and my wife drives a Ford, not a Lincoln

 

[ronparise]

I could not agree more. BUT IMHO WM should be ahead of Wyn not the other way around. Not because they are nicer then wyn resorts but because Worldmark is still sold for real money on the resale market, most Club Wyndham resorts are not.

Maybe that is the way to look at it. What resorts still sell for a significant amount of money on the resale market? IMHO, Those are the top resort systems. If you can not give away a resort in the system, they are not top tier.

Thats one way to look at it but that I can buy the equivalent of 5 weeks of timesharing with Wyndham for the same money that gets me 1 Worldmark week, makes Wyndham more valuable to me.

 

[Bill4728]

Thats one way to look at it but that I can buy the equivalent of 5 weeks of timesharing with Wyndham for the same money that gets me 1 Worldmark week, makes Wyndham more valuable to me.

Ron,

Not to sound like a jerk but many (maybe not most) wyndham resorts can be picked up for free.

So I'd look at the on going cost of owning them. If you can get 5 weeks of vacations at Club Wyndham for the same ongoing costs of a WM then YES Club Wyndham would be more valuable.

 

[timeos2]

I think rankings like this can be valuable especially for people new to TSs and looking to purchase. Everybody has their own criteria and what they value. Wyndham obviously has value to many people, but it doesn't fit our needs or desires, regardless of the price.

So you pick your location to visit by the brand available? You wouldn't stay at an individual resort regardless of quality because it isn't a brand? What nonsense.

A listing or ranking as that would have no real purpose whatsoever except to feed the ego of those who fall for the sales pitches that brand X is always better than brand Y. It's not true in soap, cars or tv's and it isn't true in timeshare. Someone new looking for a timeshare isn't going to be helped in anyway by such a list. They need guidance in where to buy, what features to look for, what makes a property or system a value, what things cost, how are they maintained, who calls the shots - etc, etc. None of those things are identified by a rank of Hoteliers names that may be attached to a timeshare project.

Utter nonsense.

 

[AbelowDS]

So you pick your location to visit by the brand available? You wouldn't stay at an individual resort regardless of quality because it isn't a brand? What nonsense.

A listing or ranking as that would have no real purpose whatsoever except to feed the ego of those who fall for the sales pitches that brand X is always better than brand Y. It's not true in soap, cars or tv's and it isn't true in timeshare. Someone new looking for a timeshare isn't going to be helped in anyway by such a list. They need guidance in where to buy, what features to look for, what makes a property or system a value, what things cost, how are they maintained, who calls the shots - etc, etc. None of those things are identified by a rank of Hoteliers names that may be attached to a timeshare project.

Utter nonsense.

Choosing wasn't the basis for this discussion. I can (and do) choose based on the reviews in the TUG Resort Database.

This was a general question on branding. While it may be utter nonsense to you, this may be helpful to others

 

[K2Quick]

I could not agree more. BUT IMHO WM should be ahead of Wyn not the other way around. Not because they are nicer then wyn resorts but because Worldmark is still sold for real money on the resale market, most Club Wyndham resorts are not.

Maybe that is the way to look at it. What resorts still sell for a significant amount of money on the resale market? IMHO, Those are the top resort systems. If you can not give away a resort in the system, they are not top tier.

I'm not sure the tiers should be based on resale value. For example, a platinum week at the Four Seasons Aviara costs less than half on the resale market than a Marriott Mountainside platinum week in Park City. FSA is unquestionably higher quality - there is just a much smaller population of owners willing to pony up the amount of money required to support their service levels.

To the extent mistreatment of an owner base by the management company causes resale values to plummet, I would think that might be acceptable to factor into the ratings.

 

[andex]

Surprised HIVC doesn’t even make this list. Granted it’s a bad system to buy resale, but I love my HIVC membership. I am very analytical and I find I get a lot more value from HIVC compared to my wyndham membership. Great value within the system, great value when using my points in the RCI point inventory, and great value in the hotels with priority club. Very flexible system, and very easy to work with.

 

[cassvilleokie]

Ive always considered the US to be "in the world" Wyndham also has a Asia Pacific division...Europe, not so much

What about the Wyndham Exchange and Rentals Brand, I see it on the website and it has advertised over 100,000 locations around the world. Can't we as owners use this as well. So that would make it the largest in the world

 

[ronparise]

Thats one way to look at it but that I can buy the equivalent of 5 weeks of timesharing with Wyndham for the same money that gets me 1 Worldmark week, makes Wyndham more valuable to me.

Hey...you're the guy that brought up purchase price, not me.

But if we are talking about ongoing expenses, we need to look at both; amortized purchase price added to annual expense

Worldmark 12000 credits = 1 week, 2 bedroom at the newer (better) resorts
purchase price about $4000, over 7 years =$571 +mf($787)=about $1358

Wyndham 224000 points = 1 week 2 bedroom at a newer better resort
Purchase price about $1000,over 7 years=$142+mf(at $5.45/1000)=$1362

So for about 7 years we are dead even. If we sell at that point, Im betting the Worldmark will have come down in price, but Wyndham will have at least held at next to nothing

But the op doesnt seem to care about value, only luxury..Worldmark and Wyndham (the value options) both come up short there

 

[badbeatjackpot]

Out of some of the resorts I've been to...here is my ranking in terms of luxury and quality


1) Four Seasons Aviara
2) Four Seasons Scottsdale
3) Westin Kierland Villas
4) Westin Kaanapali
5) Marriott Ko Olina
6) Marriott Grand Chateau

Wife is super picky so we don't stay anywhere where it resembles a motel inside...

Having said this, when I buy my next timeshare, I will buy a Marriott because like Ron said, I care about the locations of the resort.
In terms of where I travel, Marriott pretty much has a resort EVERYWHERE Starwood does but then they also have resorts where Starwood doesn't like Oahu, Newport Beach, Las Vegas, (which are 3 areas that I go to often)

So basically, I like Marriott because I know what to expect (in terms of cleanliness, quality (pretty much all cookie cutter) and they have locations I want.

If Marriott gets a TS in Waikiki, NYC, Chicago, San Fran and San Diego, I'll be in heaven

 

[Rent_Share]

If Marriott gets a TS in Waikiki, NYC, Chicago, San Fran and San Diego, I'll be in heaven

Wyndham has announced Chicago and NYC, they can cover you in Oahu, SFO and SAN

 

[csalter2]

DRI Tier 2

Diamond Resorts International in my opinion would be in the Tier 2 group. It's not Tier 0 or Tier 1 although some could come close, but certainly Tier 2 for many of them across the board.

 

[badbeatjackpot]

Wyndham has announced Chicago and NYC, they can cover you in Oahu, SFO and SAN

Yeah I love the Wyndham locations. I was close to buying Waikiki Beachwalk but I'm not sold on the level of luxury.

I think I've been spoiled by some of my great exchanges but I don't think I can go below Marriott in terms of cleanliness and upkeep...

That being said, I have yet to go to a Wyndham property.

if I were to go to Wyndham properties, I would be mainly interested in Waikiki Beachwalk, Dolphins Cove and San Diego.

Seeing how their properties have a rather large range in quality, Would those properties be on par with Marriott resorts?

 

[DeniseM]

I like Dolphin's Cove, have stayed there twice, and would stay there again. It is very convenient to Disneyland. However, it is a converted apartment complex - not a purpose build luxury timeshare, so it's not Marriott Quality.

 

[csalter2]

Royal Vista

I have only been to one Wyndham property and that was the Royal Vista in Fort Lauderdale. It was fine, but not a Tier 1 like a Marriott. I would say it was a Tier 2.

Those who are Wyndham people would you agree with that assessment?

 

[DeniseM]

I don't think you can peg Wyndham because it has a really wide range of quality. For example Bonnet Creek is right up there with the Big Boys, but some of their converted motels and apartment buildings are 3rd/4th tier.

 

[lizap]

Many people prefer certain brands other others, whether its automobiles, ketchup, or TSs. I happen to prefer Westin, Four Seasons, and Hyatt. Why? Because usually, there is consistency in service, comfortable beds, properties are well designed and maintained, etc... I disagree that a listing like this has no value. As I said in an earlier post, especially for those new to TSs, threads like this can provide valuable insight.

So you pick your location to visit by the brand available? You wouldn't stay at an individual resort regardless of quality because it isn't a brand? What nonsense.

A listing or ranking as that would have no real purpose whatsoever except to feed the ego toof those who fall for the sales pitches that brand X is always better than brand Y. It's not true in soap, cars or tv's and it isn't true in timeshare. Someone new looking for a timeshare isn't going to be helped in anyway by such a list. They need guidance in where to buy, what features to look for, what makes a property or system a value, what things cost, how are they maintained, who calls the shots - etc, etc. None of those things are identified by a rank of Hoteliers names that may be attached to a timeshare project.

Utter nonsense.

 

[timeos2]

I have only been to one Wyndham property and that was the Royal Vista in Fort Lauderdale. It was fine, but not a Tier 1 like a Marriott. I would say it was a Tier 2.

Those who are Wyndham people would you agree with that assessment?

You aren't following the "rules" the OP set up as you are referring to specific location(s) rather than Wyndham overall.

With that said Royal Vista is a superb resort - easily on par with the majority of Marriott's. If that were the average Wyndham resort they would gat a high ranking in overall quality. But it isn't - there are 10-15 Wyndham's that equal or better most Marriott's but the vast majority offer a much broader selection of desirable locations but not that level of resort quality. Overall we find the best value in having many internal locations to choose from trumps quality but that may not be the case for everyone (as shown by this thread).

I will say unequivocally that an area where Wyndham falls down is unit cleanliness. For many years we have noticed that the level of care taken by the housekeeping staff consistently falls short of being of "good" or better ranking. In fact it tends to be fair to poor in the vast majority of resorts. At first we thought it was a fluke at a resort or two but now it has been apparent for over 7-8 years that the corporate culture apparently accepts so-so cleaning as the acceptable norm.

But some that are proposed as a tp tier level here also fall short. Both of our recent stays at Marriott locations have uncovered serious unit issues. They have been more maintenance than housekeeping related but should have been caught by Housekeeping personnel. HGVC also comes up a bit short in that area. They seem to have issues with the laundry - especially bedding. Again it seems to be at the Corporate level as we have had the same issues in their hotel operations (Embassy Suites & Hampton Inns). In all cases it comes down to the specific unit at specific resort you are in. Just because it's brand whatever it may or may not be a perfect execution of that brands standards.

 

[timeos2]

I like Dolphin's Cove, have stayed there twice, and would stay there again. It is very convenient to Disneyland. However, it is a converted apartment complex - not a purpose build luxury timeshare, so it's not Marriott Quality.

That resort leaves a lot to be desired but does have the best location for Disney access. If it weren't for that location so close to Disneyland it wouldn't even be considered for a potential stay based on our previous experiences there. To be honest we'd pick an Embassy Suites or Homewood Suites over that resort, even though they aren't timeshares, given a choice between the three.

 

[timeos2]

Many people prefer certain brands other others, whether its automobiles, ketchup, or TSs. I happen to prefer Westin, Four Seasons, and Hyatt. Why? Because usually, there is consistency in service, comfortable beds, properties are well designed and maintained, etc... I disagree that a listing like this has no value. As I said in an earlier post, especially for those new to TSs, threads like this can provide valuable insight.

A preference for a brand is understandable. But what good does it do to have a ranking of brands if the majority of areas new (or seasoned) owners / potential owners don't have those brands? You will find that the big names with the proposed top rankings here aren't going to be found in any area that isn't near year round in demand and with an upscale reputation (think Miami rather than Branson). The top names can't afford to locate in the lower or highly seasonal areas as the off times simply cannot support the costly facilities and staff that those operations require.

So unless your travel will be limited to maybe 10-12 top spots around the world and never anything but those few classy locations you aren't going to find the names planted there. Buying into one of them so you can trade into the other spots would certainly work as the trade value would be very high. But doing that is a waste of money as it would almost always be a big step down in resort quality that you will have paid big money to obtain. You could get those same resorts relatively easily with home resorts that cost far less to purchase and own. It just doesn't seem to be a good launching point for recommendation to potential buyers when there are other, far less expensive ways to get the same results.

Look around and see how many posts talk about how it would be "wasting" an expensive to own Disney, HGVC or Marriott or other top name to trade into a resort in many locations. One of the ideas of timeshare is to get great value for the dollar. Owning the top brands for anything other than using just those brands locations tends to be a more expensive rather than a good value way to do things.

 

[heathpack]

Personally, my impression is:

Tier 1a:
Four Seasons
Ritz
Grand Luxxe (maybe)

Tier 1b:
Westin
Hyatt
Grand Mayan
Marriott
Hilton
Disney
Royal Resorts
Personally I find Westin, Hyatt & Grand Mayan to be a little more hip/modern, while Marriott, Hilton, Disney and Royals are a little more "comfortable generic upper middle class". I like both styles but prefer hip/modern, so I give a premium to those resorts unless location is better in the comfortable generic upper middle class resort, then that trumps hip/modern.

Tier 2 (some resorts in these systems are tier 1, some not even tier 2)
Non Westin Starwood
Shell
Wyndham
Welk
MGVC
DRI
Westgate (Park City)
Mayan Palace

I would absolutely consider resorts in any of these tiers plus independent resorts that meet my needs.

H

 

[lizap]

Heathpack, you articulated another thing I like- that they tend to be more 'hip/modern' in design and decor.

 

[rickandcindy23]

This is a difficult task, and it assumes quality amongst all resorts in one system.

Hyatt Beaver Creek was a huge wow for me. Yumdrey gave us a week with points she had, and we enjoyed only one night of that week (too bad), but we couldn't take time away from work and other obligations to use the entire week.

Four Seasons Aviara, close to the same feeling as the Hyatt, but understandably so, since both are really managed by the same company now (aren't they?).

Westin Ka'anapali, both north and south, is a great resort with beautiful grounds, and it's really all about location. Nothing prettier anywhere on earth (I have seen only the USA, but I cannot imagine).

Marriott's Cypress Harbour and Grande Vista in Orlando are very high quality. Marriott is a great system, and we now own a few of them and are proud owners. Loved Manor House. Loved Newport Coast. Wow! Looking forward to our Kauai week at the Marriott in Lihue.

Disney is nice, VGC is a cut above most of the Disneyworld properties, and I would bet Aulani is spectacular, too. I love the locations of all of the DVC, but we still stay more at Vistana Villages and the Marriott resorts than any DVC.

Shell resorts are as nice as any of the Marriott resorts. We have stayed in several now, and I love Shell (so glad we got free points to use and no closing). Peacock Suites is not the same as it was in 2004, our first trip there. It's MUCH nicer. And it's in a very difficult place to get in exchange. Weekdays are cheap in Shell at Peacock, and they give us a free breakfast. Gotta love it. The Donatello is actually worth the high price per point. Cannot believe I am saying that. The hotel is definite 3.5 stars or so. I am comparing it to some hotels we stayed that were rated that high, and it was a wonderful stay. But we can go weekdays, and those are significantly less in points.

We feel blessed to have exchanged into some great places.