How Would You Design the MVC/Vistana Integration?

[FamilyEsq]

How Would You Design the MVC/Vistana Integration?

I am trying to decide how to proceed under the new integration between MVC/Vistana. No one, other than MVC corporate, knows the exact parameters of the integration. The integration is important to me because I am deciding whether to pick up a Marriott trader or a Vistana StarOption generator. I would like to know which one would be the most practical going forward.

I made a couple of assumptions (which you may disagree with) of the future integration.

• MVC wants a common currency that will generate the most profit. Destination Points (DP) seem to be the optimal profit generator. It is a fairly easy concept to for purchasers to understand, and it is easy for MVC to raise the maintenance fee per point whenever it is so inclined to do so.
• MVC’s best potential new customers are its existing DP owners. (The maintenance fees for DPs are among the highest in the MVC system and MVC can easily adjust the point requirement cost for a stay at a particular resort.) Current Vistana owners are probably next on the list.
• Marriott would be able to sell the most DPs by offering current MVC owners access to the Vistana resorts.
• The inventory that Marriott would be able to offer DP owners would come from unsold and repurchased “ROFR” Vistana inventory. (Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe that Marriott/Vistana would be able to offer any of the inventory that is currently reserved using StarOptions.)
• However, most of the inventory that Marriott/Vistana would likely offer would have to come from Vistana Owners enrolling their weeks in the new integrated system.

I believe the best system for integration is the simplest system. If I were in charge of the integration I would make DPs the common currency between the two systems. This can be easily achieved by allowing Vistana owners to enroll their weeks in the MVC program. Vistana owners would be required to pay a small fee. MVC wants Vistana weeks enrolled in this combined program. The more Vistana weeks enrolled in this new system, the easier it will be for MVC salespeople to sell more DPs because there will be greater availability of premium weeks. Salespeople will tout access to Westin Hawaii, St. Johns, Mexico resorts, etc.

Questions:

• Will Marriott allow the enrollment of resale Vistana weeks?
• 
  
• I believe Marriott would be wise to allow enrollment of resale weeks. Resale owners are a significant number of the overall owners of Vistana timeshares. Marriott would increase its available inventory. Marriott would “earn” a substantial amount of money by charging Vistana owners a fee to enroll each week.
• 
  
• The argument against Marriott allowing resale weeks in the Integrated Program is that Marriott, rather than allow resale owners to enroll weeks for a nominal fee, can require resale owners to make a substantial new purchase (Destination Points) to participate in the Integrated Program.
• 
  
• Will Marriott allow the enrollment of resale Marriott weeks?
• 
  
• Marriott could make money by enrolling Marriott resale weeks that have not been enrolled. Marriott last offered open enrollment in 2010 (ten years ago). Marriott may feel it is beneficial to increase inventory without having to exercise ROFR and earn enrollment fees.
• 
  
• The argument against Marriott allowing enrollment of Marriott resale weeks is that Marriott may want to continue the current system of requiring resale owners to purchase Destination Points in order to enroll a week. (I believe Marriott offers this option occasionally as a “special”.)
• 
  
• Will the new Integration Program eliminate or vastly reduce the usefulness of the StarOptions program?
• 
  
• Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t think they would. Vistana has a great internal exchange system. It really doesn’t make sense to change it. By making a change, Marriott could open itself to litigation. Marriott would be changing a program benefit that purchasers relied upon when buying a week from Vistana.

The reason that I am not waiting for the program to be announced before making a purchase is because I believe Marriott will set a retroactive date for weeks that are eligible to be enrolled (Marriott set a retroactive date in 2010 for enrollment of Marriott weeks into the DP Program).

What do you think? How would you set up an integrated program?

 

[SueDonJ]

I think the simplest way to integrate is to allow Vistana Weeks Owners the exact same entry into the Destination Club that is offered to Marriott Weeks Owners, i.e. allow Vistana Weeks to be enrolled in the Destination Club and exchanged on an annual basis for an allotted amount (based on resort, unit size, unit view and seasonal designation factors) of Destination Club Points which can be used to exchange via the DC Exchange Company. At its most basic it's simply an additional "internal" exchange program that doesn't permanently replace any existing ownership usage options, but is subject to eligibility rules, an original Enrollment Fee and a separate annual Club Dues fee.

Honestly, I don't see Marriott reinventing the wheel, again, for Vistana integration. Their Destination Club internal exchange option is well-established at this point, anecdotal evidence is that Weeks Owners are happy with it, and it was apparent at the outset in 2010 that it's perfectly positioned to allow timeshares other than MVC Weeks (that come under the MVW umbrella or not) to play nicely in the new sandbox.

 

[CPNY]

How Would You Design the MVC/Vistana Integration?

I am trying to decide how to proceed under the new integration between MVC/Vistana. No one, other than MVC corporate, knows the exact parameters of the integration. The integration is important to me because I am deciding whether to pick up a Marriott trader or a Vistana StarOption generator. I would like to know which one would be the most practical going forward.

I made a couple of assumptions (which you may disagree with) of the future integration.

• MVC wants a common currency that will generate the most profit. Destination Points (DP) seem to be the optimal profit generator. It is a fairly easy concept to for purchasers to understand, and it is easy for MVC to raise the maintenance fee per point whenever it is so inclined to do so.
• MVC’s best potential new customers are its existing DP owners. (The maintenance fees for DPs are among the highest in the MVC system and MVC can easily adjust the point requirement cost for a stay at a particular resort.) Current Vistana owners are probably next on the list.
• Marriott would be able to sell the most DPs by offering current MVC owners access to the Vistana resorts.
• The inventory that Marriott would be able to offer DP owners would come from unsold and repurchased “ROFR” Vistana inventory. (Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe that Marriott/Vistana would be able to offer any of the inventory that is currently reserved using StarOptions.)
• However, most of the inventory that Marriott/Vistana would likely offer would have to come from Vistana Owners enrolling their weeks in the new integrated system.

I believe the best system for integration is the simplest system. If I were in charge of the integration I would make DPs the common currency between the two systems. This can be easily achieved by allowing Vistana owners to enroll their weeks in the MVC program. Vistana owners would be required to pay a small fee. MVC wants Vistana weeks enrolled in this combined program. The more Vistana weeks enrolled in this new system, the easier it will be for MVC salespeople to sell more DPs because there will be greater availability of premium weeks. Salespeople will tout access to Westin Hawaii, St. Johns, Mexico resorts, etc.

Questions:

• Will Marriott allow the enrollment of resale Vistana weeks?
• 
  
• I believe Marriott would be wise to allow enrollment of resale weeks. Resale owners are a significant number of the overall owners of Vistana timeshares. Marriott would increase its available inventory. Marriott would “earn” a substantial amount of money by charging Vistana owners a fee to enroll each week.
• 
  
• The argument against Marriott allowing resale weeks in the Integrated Program is that Marriott, rather than allow resale owners to enroll weeks for a nominal fee, can require resale owners to make a substantial new purchase (Destination Points) to participate in the Integrated Program.
• 
  
• Will Marriott allow the enrollment of resale Marriott weeks?
• 
  
• Marriott could make money by enrolling Marriott resale weeks that have not been enrolled. Marriott last offered open enrollment in 2010 (ten years ago). Marriott may feel it is beneficial to increase inventory without having to exercise ROFR and earn enrollment fees.
• 
  
• The argument against Marriott allowing enrollment of Marriott resale weeks is that Marriott may want to continue the current system of requiring resale owners to purchase Destination Points in order to enroll a week. (I believe Marriott offers this option occasionally as a “special”.)
• 
  
• Will the new Integration Program eliminate or vastly reduce the usefulness of the StarOptions program?
• 
  
• Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t think they would. Vistana has a great internal exchange system. It really doesn’t make sense to change it. By making a change, Marriott could open itself to litigation. Marriott would be changing a program benefit that purchasers relied upon when buying a week from Vistana.

The reason that I am not waiting for the program to be announced before making a purchase is because I believe Marriott will set a retroactive date for weeks that are eligible to be enrolled (Marriott set a retroactive date in 2010 for enrollment of Marriott weeks into the DP Program).

What do you think? How would you set up an integrated program?

There are many variables. It’s tricky, many think the DC program will be the common currency and vistana owners would have to make a large purchase to buy in. Many believe that to be the fair way, many on the DC Side. They feel that they paid large sums of money to MVC and vistana owners didn’t so now is their time to pony up. I’ve heard the MVC investor presentation and one of the Marriott presenters referred to the vistana side as “they” almost as if it is still competition. He acknowledged his mistake with a joke about saying they and that it would take some time to get used to saying US. If that’s the mindset of those making the decisions behind a combined program, I fear the VSE owners may be disadvantaged, but I doubt it very much.

There is another way of looking at it, and that is the fact that the vistana side has inventory in Mexico and other Caribbean locations that would blend well with the MVC family of resorts. They want that inventory so maybe they will allow the VSE owners a one time enrollment fee to be able to convert their units into the DC program and book units there, sort of like they did with their legacy MVC weeks owners, developer or resale. They could leave the resale owners out completely and let them sit in the VSN as their only way of booking, however I don’t see that as a likely case. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Others also feel that they may try to do away with any advantages of owning mandatory resorts. I don’t think they see the small amount of mandatory owners as a thorn since there aren’t as many as people think.

I could also see them incorporate interval as a mechanism for a common exchange using a common points currency. However it shakes out, I look for them to mirror the vistana tech side (one can only hope they do). Personally, I hope they don’t make changes to the VSN and they just offer enrollment when you want to convert star options to a CC to book any unit. Either way they have to make it beneficial since star option owners are happy with the VSN and II exchange. They will make it attractive for all customers. The happier the customer the more likely they are to buy more! Or talk about how great it is to own MVC to friends and family who are potential new customers.

My hope is that they leave everything as is on the VSN side if you choose to stay there and allow a one time enrollment fee for the ability to convert to a CC whether that be DC points or another vehicle for booking when you choose to play in that sand box.

 

[CPNY]

I think the simplest way to integrate is to allow Vistana Weeks Owners the exact same entry into the Destination Club that is offered to Marriott Weeks Owners, i.e. allow Vistana Weeks to be enrolled in the Destination Club and exchanged on an annual basis for an allotted amount (based on resort, unit size, unit view and seasonal designation factors) of Destination Club Points which can be used to exchange via the DC Exchange Company. At its most basic it's simply an additional "internal" exchange program that doesn't permanently replace any existing ownership usage options, but is subject to eligibility rules, an original Enrollment Fee and a separate annual Club Dues fee.

Honestly, I don't see Marriott reinventing the wheel, again, for Vistana integration. Their Destination Club internal exchange option is well-established at this point, anecdotal evidence is that Weeks Owners are happy with it, and it was apparent at the outset in 2010 that it's perfectly positioned to allow timeshares other than MVC Weeks (that come under the MVW umbrella or not) to play nicely in the new sandbox.

Inventory question. Can they take inventory repurchased through ROFR from VSE resorts and put it into a DC trust? I’d assume they could right? Or would allowing VSE owners to enroll put that inventory in the DC trust whenever that owner chooses to convert to DC points year to year? Whatever happens, we should find out this year, exciting stuff

 

[Steve Fatula]

"MVC can easily adjust the point requirement cost for a stay at a particular resort"

Actually, they can't. Many discussions about this. Assuming you mean "let's make this resort as a whole cost more".

 

[SueDonJ]

There are many variables. It’s tricky, many think the DC program will be the common currency and vistana owners would have to make a large purchase to buy in. Many believe that to be the fair way, many on the DC Side. They feel that they paid large sums of money to MVC and vistana owners didn’t so now is their time to pony up. Many on the vistana side feel opposite. Many did pony up and paid vistana/Starwood developer money at one point so why should they be hit up again? I’ve heard the MVC investor presentation and one of the Marriott presenters referred to the vistana side as “they” almost as if it is still competition. He acknowledged his mistake with a joke about saying they and that it would take some time to get used to saying US. If that’s the mindset of those making the decisions behind a combined program, I fear the VSE owners may be disadvantaged.
There is another way of looking at it, and that is the fact that the vistana side has inventory in Mexico and other Caribbean locations that would blend well with the MVC family of resorts. They want that inventory so maybe they will allow the VSE owners a one time enrollment fee to be able to convert their units into the DC program and book units there, sort of like they did with their legacy MVC weeks owners, developer or resale. They could leave the resale owners out completely and let them sit in the VSN as their only way of booking, however I don’t see that as a likely case. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Others also feel that they will try to do away with any advantages of owning mandatory resorts. I don’t think they see the small amount of mandatory owners as a thorn since there aren’t as many as people think.

I could also see them incorporate interval as a mechanism for a common exchange using a common points currency. However it shakes out, look for them to mirror the vistana tech side (one can only hope they do). Personally, I hope they don’t make changes to the VSN and they just offer enrollment when you want to convert star options to a CC to book any unit. Either way they have to make it beneficial since star option owners are happy with the VSN and II exchange. They will make it attractive for all customers. The happier the customer the more likely they are to buy more! Or talk about how great it is to own MVC to friends and family who are potential new customers.

I'm not sure that I understand your first point - what do you mean by, "[Marriott owners] feel that they paid large sums of money to MVC and vistana owners didn't?" I thought you were talking about the enrollment fees for Marriott Weeks owners at first but then you say that you know Marriott assessed varying enrollment fees, so that leaves me thinking that you think many Marriott owners might now think that it should be taken into account that the Vistana Weeks weren't sold by Marriott?

I'm confused.

But I'll say, as a Marriott Weeks owner who purchased direct at developer pricing, it didn't occur to me when they introduced the DC that owners who paid less than I did for the same or similar Weeks were "less deserving" (for want of a better term) of the DC enrollment option. The original enrollment fee schedule at the outset took direct-v-resale purchases into account, with the fees ranging from $595 for a single direct-purchase Week to $1995 for multiple external-resale Weeks. Considering that they weren't required to differentiate at all, and/or that they could have assessed a much larger differential between direct- and external resale-purchases, they seemed to have struck a happy medium that - at least among the owners on TUG at the time - didn't cause consternation. If they do allow DC enrollment to Vistana Weeks Owners, it won't matter one iota to me, anyway, that these Weeks were not original Marriott purchases. But I will be surprised, and not happy, if the Enrollment Fees and eligibility rules for Vistana Weeks are much more enticing than they've historically been for Marriott Weeks.

 

[Swice]

Your real question is which system to jump into-- Marriott or Vistana? Regardless of how they combine, I think the best assumption is Marriott was/is bigger and was the acquirer in the merger. The rules will favor Marriott. No, they're not going to treat Vistana owners as trash. Marriott will try to be enticing. But I would recommend buying into the surviving system. I can't imagine them blowing up both systems and starting from scratch... that would simply be too complicated. They will somehow fold Vistana/Star Options into the Marriott system.

 

[SueDonJ]

Inventory question. Can they take inventory repurchased through ROFR from VSE resorts and put it into a DC trust? I’d assume they could right? Or would allowing VSE owners to enroll put that inventory in the DC trust whenever that owner chooses to convert to DC points year to year? Whatever happens, we should find out this year, exciting stuff

From what I understand reading the Destination Club governing docs, any US-based inventory that MVW owns can be deposited into the DC Trust (which then fuels the DC Points sales engine,) excepting any Weeks for which the underlying governing docs would legally prohibit such a transfer. I'm not familiar with Vistana so have no idea if there are impediments to those Weeks being conveyed to a Trust in the same way that Marriott Weeks can be.

It's important to understand that enrollment of Weeks does not at all result in those Weeks being conveyed into the DC Trust - enrollment simply offers another usage option. Think of the Destination Club in three parts: the DC Trust to which Marriott-owned inventory can be permanently conveyed, the DC Trust Points available to be sold which correlate to the inventory conveyed to the DC Trust, and the DC Exchange Company through which owners of purchased DC Trust Points AND owners of enrolled Weeks who have elected to convert them to DC Exchange Points in any given year, can book available DC Exchange Company inventory. Owners of purchased DC Trust Points have access to inventory in the Trust and inventory in the DC Exchange Company. Owners of enrolled Weeks do not have access to inventory in the DC Trust until/unless they elect to convert the Weeks to DC Exchange Points AND until/unless Marriott manipulates that trust-conveyed inventory through the DC Exchange Company. (Historically, there are instances where the highest value/highest demand inventory in the Trust may not be made available via the DC Exchange Company immediately upon reservation windows opening but on the whole, we don't see prohibitive restrictions here - think in terms of inventory becoming available at the 12.5 mos window instead of the 13 mos.)

 

[CPNY]

From what I understand reading the Destination Club governing docs, any US-based inventory that MVW owns can be deposited into the DC Trust (which then fuels the DC Points sales engine,) excepting any Weeks for which the underlying governing docs would legally prohibit such a transfer. I'm not familiar with Vistana so

It's important to understand that enrollment of Weeks does not at all result in those Weeks being conveyed into the DC Trust - enrollment simply offers another usage option. Think of the Destination Club in three parts: the DC Trust to which Marriott-owned inventory can be conveyed, the DC Trust Points available to be sold which correlate to the inventory conveyed to the DC Trust, and the DC Exchange Company through which owners of purchased DC Trust Points AND owners of enrolled Weeks which are converted to DC Exchange Points, can book available DC Exchange Company inventory. Owners of enrolled Weeks do not have access to inventory in the DC Trust until/unless Marriott manipulates that inventory through the DC Exchange Company. (Historically, there are instances where the highest value/highest demand inventory in the Trust may not be made available via the DC Exchange Company immediately upon reservation windows opening but on the whole, we don't see prohibitive restrictions here - think in terms of inventory becoming available at the 12 mos window instead of the 13 mos.

So if you buy DC points you have access to the DC trust AND the DC exchange (where enrolled week owners pull inventory from using DC points converted). MVC puts inventory into the DC Exchange to be booked by ALL DC points holders, at their discretion. If they used DC as the common currency and allowed vistana to “enroll” we could essentially convert star options to DC points where we would pull the inventory from the DC Exchange. Thus, allowing three types of owners (DC Points owners, enrolled MVC Weeks owners, and enrolled VSE owners) to book from the DC exchange. If the enrolled converted week Does not result in the inventory to be put into the DC Exchange for others to book, where does that inventory end up? I’m just trying to see if that would be a way to get more inventory from the vistana side into the exchange.

I’m not aware of any governing docs that would prohibit any transfers. I’m sure Marriott execs are figuring what they can and cannot do legally as they mentioned in the investor day presentation. I have been pleased so far with the offerings on interval in the past few months. I don’t know if it’s from hanging around here or they are releasing more inventory but some nice resorts have been released. Harborside at Atlantis being deposited yesterday was the first time I’ve seen it’ll interval, although i hear it was sighted back in 2017.

 

[pchung6]

It is still my hope and believe Marriott will not change Vistana, but only enhance it. Vistana owners are mostly happy with Staroptions, it will be too expensive for Marriott to offend Vistana owners. I feel the best strategy is to offer Vistana opportunity to enroll or they can choose to stay with legacy VSN which I will do. I really wish I can pick one of these Harborside deposits, but I just dodged diamond princess trip earlier this month and still so scared, i have to pass this chance.

 

[CPNY]

It is still my hope and believe Marriott will not change Vistana, but only enhance it. Vistana owners are mostly happy with Staroptions, it will be too expensive for Marriott to offend Vistana owners. I feel the best strategy is to offer Vistana opportunity to enroll or they can choose to stay with legacy VSN which I will do. I really wish I can pick one of these Harborside deposits, but I just dodged diamond princess trip earlier this month and still so scared, i have to pass this chance.

Pick one up and go! I’m going in march, I have Italy booked in June, and have Belgium, Prague, Ukraine and Copenhagen in July/Aug. I hope this virus is over by then. Ughhhh really stinks.

 

[Dean]

"MVC can easily adjust the point requirement cost for a stay at a particular resort"

Actually, they can't. Many discussions about this. Assuming you mean "let's make this resort as a whole cost more".

They may not be able to for any internal usage but they can for any crossover option or upgrade system add on if they chose.

As for how I'd do it, it would depend on whether I take a view as for what's best for me, the owners as a whole, Marriott or an average of the whole. I'm not going through a long drawn out option of each situation but IMO, and I know it rubs some the wrong way, any new or crossover system will be centric to the DC higher points levels and likely will be included for the DC at the highest levels for any crossover system. Whether that's true for a common currency going forward remains to be seen but I'm confident that those in the highest levels of MVC will fare better than most. And it's likely the DC will be at the heart of any new or crossover system as it's basis.

 

[Steve Fatula]

They may not be able to for any internal usage but they can for any crossover option or upgrade system add on if they chose.

As for how I'd do it, it would depend on whether I take a view as for what's best for me, the owners as a whole, Marriott or an average of the whole. I'm not going through a long drawn out option of each situation but IMO, and I know it rubs some the wrong way, any new or crossover system will be centric to the DC higher points levels and likely will be included for the DC at the highest levels for any crossover system. Whether that's true for a common currency going forward remains to be seen but I'm confident that those in the highest levels of MVC will fare better than most. And it's likely the DC will be at the heart of any new or crossover system as it's basis.

True Dean, but read the OP context. His full statement was:

"MVC’s best potential new customers are its existing DP owners. (The maintenance fees for DPs are among the highest in the MVC system and MVC can easily adjust the point requirement cost for a stay at a particular resort.) Current Vistana owners are probably next on the list."

So, to me, it says they can adjust DP points, and they cannot. That's all I was speaking to, nothing else, not any expansion, etc. I believe it was part of the reason he was thinking DP points would survive, they can adjust anything they want in other words. I just don't like when people keep posting that to scare you away from points, the price is scary enough, lol. You may be correct on non internal, depends how it all plays out. And it's of course all guessing. I actually agree with your thoughts on how it might be structured and I think higher levels will fare better as well.

 

[Dean]

True Dean, but read the OP context. His full statement was:

"MVC’s best potential new customers are its existing DP owners. (The maintenance fees for DPs are among the highest in the MVC system and MVC can easily adjust the point requirement cost for a stay at a particular resort.) Current Vistana owners are probably next on the list."

So, to me, it says they can adjust DP points, and they cannot. That's all I was speaking to, nothing else, not any expansion, etc. I believe it was part of the reason he was thinking DP points would survive, they can adjust anything they want in other words. I just don't like when people keep posting that to scare you away from points, the price is scary enough, lol. You may be correct on non internal, depends how it all plays out. And it's of course all guessing. I actually agree with your thoughts on how it might be structured and I think higher levels will fare better as well.

I think there's a lot to agree and disagree with on the OP but that'd be true for anything that any of us wrote that tried to be an all inclusive proposal. Specific to the point on the best target audience, I think it's actually non MVC (Vistana/Westin) owners but ultimately it depends on the specifics. Basically they'll want non MVC owners to "enroll" or "upgrade" and current MVC owners to add on. Two things are for sure, that this won't be the last time we get to discuss this issue maybe heatedly at times and and that there will actually be winners and losers. And I personally expect that in many people's eyes the current higher level VIP on the MVC side are likely to be comparative winners and that will tic some off. I'm thinking this is going to be fun.

 

[CaliSunshine]

The general consensus seems to be that VSN mandatory and all current VSN enrolled weeks will be allowed into the new program, maybe with a small buy in, but maybe just for free. VSN optional resale weeks may or may not. I personally think there's a good chance they will be as a one time thing, to increase inventory and because it costs Marriott nothing to let them in, and it doesn't even bump up resale values.

I think there was some speculation that there would be some rejiggering of point values for different resorts so it wouldn't be a straight StarOptions -> DC points conversion, but rather resorts and maybe specific weeks would have their values adjusted based on supply/demand. The one problem with that that I can see is the various Vistana points offerings. If they did rejigger the points values of weeks, then most likely 148.1K Aventuras will no longer have the same booking power as 148.1K Westin Flex and 148.1K Sheraton Flex. I think they'll avoid that to avoid upsetting brand new owners of their points programs.

Finally, there's a question about what to do about the mandatory resorts in Vistana. A lot of people have been bidding up mandatory weeks in Vistana recently based on the idea that mandatory VSN = mandatory DC. I don't personally think the parent company likes the idea of having these mandatory resale weeks be a back door into their "developer sales only" scheme. But it's a small chunk of the total inventory, so maybe it's not worth the lawsuit to remove the mandatory status.

 

[ocdb8r]

I think the simplest way to integrate is to allow Vistana Weeks Owners the exact same entry into the Destination Club that is offered to Marriott Weeks Owners, i.e. allow Vistana Weeks to be enrolled in the Destination Club and exchanged on an annual basis for an allotted amount (based on resort, unit size, unit view and seasonal designation factors) of Destination Club Points which can be used to exchange via the DC Exchange Company. At its most basic it's simply an additional "internal" exchange program that doesn't permanently replace any existing ownership usage options, but is subject to eligibility rules, an original Enrollment Fee and a separate annual Club Dues fee.

Honestly, I don't see Marriott reinventing the wheel, again, for Vistana integration. Their Destination Club internal exchange option is well-established at this point, anecdotal evidence is that Weeks Owners are happy with it, and it was apparent at the outset in 2010 that it's perfectly positioned to allow timeshares other than MVC Weeks (that come under the MVW umbrella or not) to play nicely in the new sandbox.

I generally agree with SueDonJ on this - the easiest and most logical way for MVC to approach this is the same way they did when they launched the DC. They could look at each Vistana Resort and assign a DC points value to each week, likely in line with what they feel are similar MVC resorts in the DC Point system. Vistana owners would be given an opportunity to "enroll" in the DC Point system and similar to the DC Point launch, the cost to enroll could be lower for direct purchasers and higher for resale purchases. Then DC Points just becomes another "option" for Vistana owners - each year you could 1) book your home resort week, 2) elect for StarOptions to book other Vistana Resorts or 3) elect for DC Points to book MVC resorts.

However, there are a couple of wrinkles:

1) The biggest wrinkle that I just do not know how they overcome is that there is now a (growing) group of Vistana Owners that own no "week". They have bought into one of the various Vistana points trusts. How do you fold them into the DC Point system unless you create some sort of StarOptions to DC Point exchange rate? If you create such a direct exchange rate for Vistana Points trusts owners, how do you explain not using that same rate for weeks owners (who's weeks have already been assigned a StarOption value)? While MVC could certainly offer weeks owners a set number of DC Points base on the value of their week and DC Point owners a set conversion rate, you risk angering one group over the other. Owners with high demand resorts/weeks are likely to come out as winners while owners with low demand resorts/weeks are likely to come out as losers and I suspect Vistana points trust owners would come out somewhere in between. That all may be good and fine, but I think it's not a recipe for success and participation.

2) Any system that effectively makes election of DC Points just another "option" for Vistana risks lack of participation. MVC really wants something that actually opens up Vistana inventory to DC Point owners and creates fairly frictionless exchange between the two systems. If I were MVC I would just rip the whole bandaid off now and try to create a more truly integrated system. As a Vistana owner, that creates a lot of uncertainty that I don't like....but I can't deny it might be in the best long term interests of MVC.

 

[CPNY]

Everyone making some good points. Whatever the change is, let’s just hope everyone is “happy”. Although we know not everyone will be. In the end, if I can keep everything I have now, I’m fine.

 

[Dean]

Everyone making some good points. Whatever the change is, let’s just hope everyone is “happy”. Although we know not everyone will be. In the end, if I can keep everything I have now, I’m fine.

IMO it's a given that not everyone will be happy. I don't think the issue for Marriott is as much making them happy as it is getting them to buy more. Obviously they don't want to make people so unhappy and disgusted they walk away but making them uneasy and a little fearful can translate into sales.

 

[SueDonJ]

IMO it's a given that not everyone will be happy. I don't think the issue for Marriott is as much making them happy as it is getting them to buy more. Obviously they don't want to make people so unhappy and disgusted they walk away but making them uneasy and a little fearful can translate into sales.

Whatever they introduce I fully expect that the initial reaction from Vistana owners (who don't also own Marriott and so aren't already somewhat familiar) will be primarily unhappiness and dissatisfaction with a lot of grumbling here on TUG, after which those who see value and participate from the start will be able to tame the masses with their practical experience. That's what happened during the first few years after the DC was introduced, mainly because it's the natural reaction to any type of change.

I think Vistana owners are actually in a better position than we were because our speculation went on for years during which we were assaulted with rumors and innuendo from a number of fronts, some of it wildly fanciful as things turned out. We had no way of correlating what we were hearing/discussing to an existing product because Marriott hadn't ever offered anything remotely like the DC. Vistana owners are at least somewhat more grounded in reality than Marriott owners were back before 6/20/10, because they already know their own Trust/points-based Star Options product AND they have the benefit of Marriott owners sharing what they know about the Destination Club.

 

[CPNY]

Whatever they introduce I fully expect that the initial reaction from Vistana owners (who don't also own Marriott and so aren't already somewhat familiar) will be primarily unhappiness and dissatisfaction with a lot of grumbling here on TUG, after which those who see value and participate from the start will be able to tame the masses with their practical experience. That's what happened during the first few years after the DC was introduced, mainly because it's the natural reaction to any type of change.

I think Vistana owners are actually in a better position than we were because our speculation went on for years during which we were assaulted with rumors and innuendo from a number of fronts, some of it wildly fanciful as things turned out. We had no way of correlating what we were hearing/discussing to an existing product because Marriott hadn't ever offered anything remotely like the DC. Vistana owners are at least somewhat more grounded in reality than Marriott owners were back before 6/20/10, because they already know their own Trust/points-based Star Options product AND they have the benefit of Marriott owners sharing what they know about the Destination Club.

I think the majority of vistana owners are excited to see how their vistana ownership may open up to more locations within Marriott. I think the grumblings May come if MVC makes drastic changes to the VSN for those of us who are happy in our limited resort bubble. If the changes are modeled after what MVC did back in 2010 with allowing enrollment for the best of both worlds I think there wouldn’t be much grumbling.

The thing i feel like I’m always trying to understand is inventory, Where it comes and goes from. If it’s a separate trust for a combined program and the VSN stays the same with my current availability, which sometimes isn’t the best, but doesn’t get any worse, there will be no grumblings from me. That’s saying a lot lol.

If I had to enroll my three weeks I have with vistana, I would IF I can stay in the VSN as well. If I have to “remove” weeks from the VSN to convert to DC points, I’d have to think about it. Short term I may be happy but I wouldn’t want to cut my nose to spite my face. In 2010 when they allowed those resale and developer owners to enroll, was there a timeframe? Or are those weeks able to be enrolled for that same fee today ? I also wonder if they would allow MVC resale owners post 2010 the ability to re enroll since it’s a new combined program?

 

[dsmrp]

Earlier there were reports, perhaps anecdotal, that Marriott would be announcing their Vistana integration plans around mid to late February. Anyone have a new guesstimate? Maybe they are still working on software systems integration, conversion of databases, new software ?? And hopefully better training of their staff on the changes

DH and I have a stay planned in late March-early April. And a lot more time than usual to go to an owner update and analyze afterwards. I am hopeful for a substantive update where we might actually consider options.

 

[SueDonJ]

I think the majority of vistana owners are excited to see how their vistana ownership may open up to more locations within Marriott. I think the grumblings May come if MVC makes drastic changes to the VSN for those of us who are happy in our limited resort bubble. If the changes are modeled after what MVC did back in 2010 with allowing enrollment for the best of both worlds I think there wouldn’t be much grumbling.

The thing i feel like I’m always trying to understand is inventory, Where it comes and goes from. If it’s a separate trust for a combined program and the VSN stays the same with my current availability, which sometimes isn’t the best, but doesn’t get any worse, there will be no grumblings from me. That’s saying a lot lol.

If I had to enroll my three weeks I have with vistana, I would IF I can stay in the VSN as well. If I have to “remove” weeks from the VSN to convert to DC points, I’d have to think about it. Short term I may be happy but I wouldn’t want to cut my nose to spite my face. In 2010 when they allowed those resale and developer owners to enroll, was there a timeframe? Or are those weeks able to be enrolled for that same fee today ? I also wonder if they would allow MVC resale owners post 2010 the ability to re enroll since it’s a new combined program?

I'm not at all familiar with the Star Options/VSN/Vistana Trust thing to even begin to guess at how that might be integrated into Marriott's DC, so I'm staying away from questions specific to those who only own Points in the Vistana system. For owned Weeks that can be converted to StarOptions, though, it seems as though the DC enrollment could just be another usage option for the underlying Week - I'm thinking along the lines of allowing enrolled Weeks to be used in all the ways they can be used now including converting them to StarOptions PLUS an option to convert to DC Points. (All this assuming a simple DC-enrollment is what happens, and of course my guess is as good as anybody's.)

Rather than trying to remember all the eligibility rules and enrollment pricing, and probably getting something wrong in the process, information below is taken from the TUG FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program sticky thread in this forum:

• All US and Caribbean resort Weeks purchased prior to 6/20/10, and all European resort Weeks purchased prior to 6/18/12, are eligible to be enrolled in the MVC Destinations program. Caribbean resort Weeks purchased direct from Marriott between 6/20/10 and 12/26/12 are also eligible for enrollment.
• Weeks purchased on the external resale market on or after the 6/20/10 (US and Caribbean) and 6/18/12 (European) introduction dates are NOT eligible for enrollment.
• Weeks purchased direct from Marriott Resales Operations are eligible if a purchase of DC Trust Points (equal to the amount of points for which the purchased Week(s) may be converted) is made within 12 months of the Weeks purchase.
• In 2015 MVW introduced a recurring DC Points sales incentive that allows enrollment of otherwise-ineligible Weeks with a purchase of DC Trust Points. Each recurrence is subject to incentive begin-and-end dates, specific cut-off dates for the resale Weeks, and specific Trust Points minimums. See this ongoing thread: Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [Merged]

As of 6/14/12 the Enrollment Fee has been increased to $2,395. Enrollment incentives include varying amounts of one-time "PlusPoints" which expire one year from date of issue and are restricted to reservations made within 60 days of check-in at Marriott Vacation Club Collection properties only.

• For historical context, the Enrollment Fee at the DC introduction ranged between $595 and $1,995 with an Enrollment Incentive of 800 one-time Exchange Points.
• In 2014 MVW introduced a recurring Rollback Pricing incentive that allows enrollment of eligible Weeks at the original fees. Each recurrence is subject to incentive begin-and-end dates. Navigate through the "Enroll Now" process on owners.marriottvacationclub.com for current pricing.
• The Enrollment Fee for eligible Weeks purchased prior to 6/20/10 may be waived if you view specific Webinars offered by MVW. Scroll down to the "UNDERSTANDING THE BENEFITS OF ENROLLMENT" section on this Owner Learning Center page.

 

[CPNY]

I'm not at all familiar with the Star Options/VSN/Vistana Trust thing to even begin to guess at how that might be integrated into Marriott's DC, so I'm staying away from questions specific to those who only own Points in the Vistana system. For owned Weeks that can be converted to StarOptions, though, it seems as though the DC enrollment could just be another usage option for the underlying Week - I'm thinking along the lines of allowing enrolled Weeks to be used in all the ways they can be used now including converting them to StarOptions PLUS an option to convert to DC Points. (All this assuming a simple DC-enrollment is what happens, and of course my guess is as good as anybody's.)

Rather than trying to remember all the eligibility rules and enrollment pricing, and probably getting something wrong in the process, information below is taken from the TUG FAQ - MVC DESTINATIONS Points Program sticky thread in this forum:

• All US and Caribbean resort Weeks purchased prior to 6/20/10, and all European resort Weeks purchased prior to 6/18/12, are eligible to be enrolled in the MVC Destinations program. Caribbean resort Weeks purchased direct from Marriott between 6/20/10 and 12/26/12 are also eligible for enrollment.
• Weeks purchased on the external resale market on or after the 6/20/10 (US and Caribbean) and 6/18/12 (European) introduction dates are NOT eligible for enrollment.
• Weeks purchased direct from Marriott Resales Operations are eligible if a purchase of DC Trust Points (equal to the amount of points for which the purchased Week(s) may be converted) is made within 12 months of the Weeks purchase.
• In 2015 MVW introduced a recurring DC Points sales incentive that allows enrollment of otherwise-ineligible Weeks with a purchase of DC Trust Points. Each recurrence is subject to incentive begin-and-end dates, specific cut-off dates for the resale Weeks, and specific Trust Points minimums. See this ongoing thread: Ongoing Sales Incentive - Enrolling Post-6/20/10 Weeks [Merged]

As of 6/14/12 the Enrollment Fee has been increased to $2,395. Enrollment incentives include varying amounts of one-time "PlusPoints" which expire one year from date of issue and are restricted to reservations made within 60 days of check-in at Marriott Vacation Club Collection properties only.

• For historical context, the Enrollment Fee at the DC introduction ranged between $595 and $1,995 with an Enrollment Incentive of 800 one-time Exchange Points.
• In 2014 MVW introduced a recurring Rollback Pricing incentive that allows enrollment of eligible Weeks at the original fees. Each recurrence is subject to incentive begin-and-end dates. Navigate through the "Enroll Now" process on owners.marriottvacationclub.com for current pricing.

Excellent. I do hope it’s just another way to use our points. Kind of excited to see how it all shakes out and which speculation posts were right. I just want to book the resorts I go to now and I’ll be A-OK.

thank you for the info! Gives a lot of insight of historical events which could be an indication of future plans.

 

[Dean]

Whatever they introduce I fully expect that the initial reaction from Vistana owners (who don't also own Marriott and so aren't already somewhat familiar) will be primarily unhappiness and dissatisfaction with a lot of grumbling here on TUG, after which those who see value and participate from the start will be able to tame the masses with their practical experience. That's what happened during the first few years after the DC was introduced, mainly because it's the natural reaction to any type of change.

I think Vistana owners are actually in a better position than we were because our speculation went on for years during which we were assaulted with rumors and innuendo from a number of fronts, some of it wildly fanciful as things turned out. We had no way of correlating what we were hearing/discussing to an existing product because Marriott hadn't ever offered anything remotely like the DC. Vistana owners are at least somewhat more grounded in reality than Marriott owners were back before 6/20/10, because they already know their own Trust/points-based Star Options product AND they have the benefit of Marriott owners sharing what they know about the Destination Club.

I think there are still quite a few people somewhat upset about the way the DC points translated, esp with the skim. As for the non MVC components and how they view this, it really depends on how the options end up, the pricing and their perception of what they're losing in the process. TUG can be a 2 edged sword but I get the sense that the additional information may make it more upsetting for them at least in the short term, we'll see. I do agree that there should be some fun thread's as more specific information is known.

 

[Steve Fatula]

Yep, and people are still mad about the made up concept you call a skim. Makes no sense to me. (This will likely tell you who). There will always be people who don't like any new system. Even if they don't buy into it. Still see posts from people who won't ever use DC points due to the so called skim. Somehow, they believe they are cheated by something they never have to use.