How to find best airfare?

[DaveNV]

There doesn't seem to be a specific forum about general travel questions like this, so I'm throwing this in the Lounge. If my questions are answered someplace, please let me know.

Here's the scenario: We have a Covid-cancelled cruise credit we'd like to use next year on a cruise from Rome to Athens, or alternately, from Athens to Rome - the cruise line has the same cruise in two directions - same price, itinerary, and in-port times. All that changes is the port order, and departure/arrival ports. We want to spend a few days in Athens seeing the local sites there, and also doing a train-based trip in Italy to view a few select cities there, as well. Again, the order of these is easily switched either to before or after whichever way the cruise booking shakes out.

I'm researching airline options and generalized pricing for flights from and to Las Vegas. I'm looking at flying into Venice, touring our way down to Rome, and boarding the ship. Or, alternatively, flying into Athens, seeing the sites there, boarding the ship, and then touring from Rome up to Venice after the cruise, if that works out better. Everything is wide open.

So far, I'm looking into flying into or out of either Venice or Athens. And that's where the questions come in. Everyone seems to have this back pocket method they prefer to accomplish a trip like this. I'm interested in knowing specifics of how to get the best price and itinerary for it. I've heard sometimes it's better to fly to an East Coast city first, (like NYC, for example), then flying nonstop to the final destination. Others have talked about doing one of those Stopover flights through Iceland. (Although it doesn't seem like Icelandic Air flies to italy or Greece.) So I'm not sure what to do. I've tried using Kayak to get general numbers and stopover cities for flights, but everything seems to have huge layovers in one direction or the other. Is there a better airline than another for this? I see some flights by a brand I'd want (e.g. British Airways), are operated by American Airlines. So that's not necessarily what I'd want.

Is there a better/best way to get a good plan for flights like this? Our plans are to fly Premium Economy at minimum. Layovers aren't a deal breaker, but we'd rather not have them be longer than is helpful. A 24-hour layover in some airport seems counterproductive, and would be very frustrating. Are there better connection sites to get someplace? Is booking a Multi-city flight a better way to get to a better stopover city? Which would you recommend?

As you can see, there are many questions. Any experienced advice?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[ScoopKona]

This is the most common kind of vacation I take -- fly in to one city, spend a month taking trains around Europe, and then fly out of a different city.

1) There's no substitute for checking the numbers often. I would have spent the pandemic looking at these flights every month or so. Just to get a feel for where the prices are going. I do this for KOA to Tokyo, Bangkok, Taipei, Ho Chi Mihn City and Mumbai. Some of these trips are still years off. But if there's a fare war, "years off" can become "right now" in a big hurry.

2) Las Vegas is one of the better cities for flying in and out -- but not so much Europe. The closest direct flight hasn't started yet -- but will soon. LAS - ZRH on Edelweiss Air. You could very possibly build your trip around that round-trip. Get connecting flights to Salzburg and Athens. (I know you said Venice. But Salzburg is going to be much less. And Salzburg to Venice is one of the world's great train trips. Chugging through the Dolomites -- try to schedule that you arrive in Venice just at dusk and you'll get the best lighting for your ride.

3) If Edelweiss is delayed, try Frankfurt with the same strategy -- Condor to FRA is about as cheap as you're going to fly from LAS to Europe. From there, inexpensive flights to Athens and Vienna/Salzburg are easy to wrangle. The little town of Eltville, just west of Frankfurt is one of my favorite towns in Germany. I'd gladly fly there any time of year.

4) I love Icelandic Air. You'll fly from LAS to SEA to KEF to your destination. But there's not much in Southern Europe. I'd do that for a UK/Ireland/France trip instead. Iceland is gorgeous and great to visit any time of the year. Last time I was there was December. The sun was only up for a few hours a day. But it was still beautiful. (And not as cold as you'd think.)

 

[DaveNV]

This is the most common kind of vacation I take -- fly in to one city, spend a month taking trains around Europe, and then fly out of a different city.

1) There's no substitute for checking the numbers often. I would have spent the pandemic looking at these flights every month or so. Just to get a feel for where the prices are going. I do this for KOA to Tokyo, Bangkok, Taipei, Ho Chi Mihn City and Mumbai. Some of these trips are still years off. But if there's a fare war, "years off" can become "right now" in a big hurry.

2) Las Vegas is one of the better cities for flying in and out -- but not so much Europe. The closest direct flight hasn't started yet -- but will soon. LAS - ZRH on Edelweiss Air. You could very possibly build your trip around that round-trip. Get connecting flights to Salzburg and Athens. (I know you said Venice. But Salzburg is going to be much less. And Salzburg to Venice is one of the world's great train trips. Chugging through the Dolomites -- try to schedule that you arrive in Venice just at dusk and you'll get the best lighting for your ride.

3) If Edelweiss is delayed, try Frankfurt with the same strategy -- Condor to FRA is about as cheap as you're going to fly from LAS to Europe. From there, inexpensive flights to Athens and Vienna/Salzburg are easy to wrangle. The little town of Eltville, just west of Frankfurt is one of my favorite towns in Germany. I'd gladly fly there any time of year.

4) I love Icelandic Air. You'll fly from LAS to SEA to KEF to your destination. But there's not much in Southern Europe. I'd do that for a UK/Ireland/France trip instead. Iceland is gorgeous and great to visit any time of the year. Last time I was there was December. The sun was only up for a few hours a day. But it was still beautiful. (And not as cold as you'd think.)

Thanks for those ideas. I'll for sure look into those cities as connecting locations. Having never been there, I'm not sure how easy it is to travel from one country to another there. The idea of a train ride into Venice from Salzburg sounds rather fun. Booking dates are a bit firm - If I'm tied to a cruise ship schedule, there is only so much flexibility of dates to fly. The ground tour in Italy will be about the same number of days (10 to 14 days), regardless of whether it's before or after the cruise. So that limits how much advantage I could take of a fare war from an airline.

Thanks again for the advice.

Dave

 

[dioxide45]

The Vacation Travel Information forum would be the place.

 

[Luanne]

Good luck. Did you ever see the movie "Sleepless in Seattle"? There is a scene where a young girl is helping Tom Hank's son get a ticket for a flight from Seattle to NYC. Her mother is a travel agent and she (the little girl) makes the statement "No one knows how much it costs to fly to NYC".

 

[amycurl]

The train from Munich to Venice is also pretty great. It's about 6 hours, beautiful scenery through the Alps, and only about $30-$50 US. (There's one scheduled about every 4 minutes, apparently....God, i love European mass transit. *sigh*)

https://www.raileurope.com/en-us/destinations/munich-venice-train

 

[amycurl]

I will say that the trains in Greece are not nearly as reliable or nice as the trains in Italy or other parts of Europe. At least when we went (which was during the Olympics and pre-Greek-debt crisis) the trains felt more Eastern European than Western European. Maybe they've upgraded since then, but if they didn't do it for the Olympics, I'm not sure they ever would. We took the train/bus from Athens down and around to Olympia (and, hoo-boy, did we have some adventures by on the Peloponnesian penninsula) before heading to Patras. But, I will say that we *loved* the ferry from Italy to Greece, and would recommend that to anyone (we didn't have a car, but had a great time as just walk-on passengers):

Homepage

www.superfast.com

 

[bizaro86]

The best way to search flights comprehensively is at oldmatrix.itasoftware.com.

You can put in any number of origins or destinations.

For your example, I'd navigate to that site and search 1 way.

From: LAS
To: FCO, ATH

And select the month long search around your dates, which will give you a calendar showing the cheapest price for each day of the month to either place.

If you wanted to expand the trip you can add any number of places.

For example
From: LAD
To: FCO, VCE, NCE, BGY, MXP, ATH, VIE

If you don't know the airport codes it will supply a list of airports within various distances of up to 500 miles from your original choice if you click "nearby".

Then do the opposite search for the way home.

You mentioned airline preferences, and you can filter your search by airline or airline alliance as well, either before searching or in your results, and also can limit your number of stops, total travel time, etc. It's infinitely flexible.

In terms of airlines, it's very likely the cheapest route from Las Vegas to Rome will be on Westjet Airlines connecting in Calgary, Canada. I did the search mentioned above for July and it was more than $400 USD cheaper per person than any other option. Downside is you have to clear Canadian immigration while connecting, but you're guaranteed a 787 Dreamliner no more than a few years old, and assuming you're going in spring/summer/fall for your cruise weather on the connection is unlikely to be an issue.

Edited to add: they don't sell tickets, but once you find exactly what you want you can search that specific thing on the specific airline site. It's better to buy tickets directly vs through an online travel agent in case of any issues.

 

[echino]

google.com/flights

For intercontinental flights, like to Europe, a single round-trip ticket is almost always significantly cheaper than two separate one way tickets.

 

[easyrider]

There doesn't seem to be a specific forum about general travel questions like this, so I'm throwing this in the Lounge. If my questions are answered someplace, please let me know.

Here's the scenario: We have a Covid-cancelled cruise credit we'd like to use next year on a cruise from Rome to Athens, or alternately, from Athens to Rome - the cruise line has the same cruise in two directions - same price, itinerary, and in-port times. All that changes is the port order, and departure/arrival ports. We want to spend a few days in Athens seeing the local sites there, and also doing a train-based trip in Italy to view a few select cities there, as well. Again, the order of these is easily switched either to before or after whichever way the cruise booking shakes out.

I'm researching airline options and generalized pricing for flights from and to Las Vegas. I'm looking at flying into Venice, touring our way down to Rome, and boarding the ship. Or, alternatively, flying into Athens, seeing the sites there, boarding the ship, and then touring from Rome up to Venice after the cruise, if that works out better. Everything is wide open.

So far, I'm looking into flying into or out of either Venice or Athens. And that's where the questions come in. Everyone seems to have this back pocket method they prefer to accomplish a trip like this. I'm interested in knowing specifics of how to get the best price and itinerary for it. I've heard sometimes it's better to fly to an East Coast city first, (like NYC, for example), then flying nonstop to the final destination. Others have talked about doing one of those Stopover flights through Iceland. (Although it doesn't seem like Icelandic Air flies to italy or Greece.) So I'm not sure what to do. I've tried using Kayak to get general numbers and stopover cities for flights, but everything seems to have huge layovers in one direction or the other. Is there a better airline than another for this? I see some flights by a brand I'd want (e.g. British Airways), are operated by American Airlines. So that's not necessarily what I'd want.

Is there a better/best way to get a good plan for flights like this? Our plans are to fly Premium Economy at minimum. Layovers aren't a deal breaker, but we'd rather not have them be longer than is helpful. A 24-hour layover in some airport seems counterproductive, and would be very frustrating. Are there better connection sites to get someplace? Is booking a Multi-city flight a better way to get to a better stopover city? Which would you recommend?

As you can see, there are many questions. Any experienced advice?

Thanks,
Dave

You might try momondo.com .

Bill

Cheap Flights - Search and Compare Flights | momondo

Find the cheapest flights with momondo. We find and compare fares from more than 1,000 airlines and travel sites, giving you the best rates

www.momondo.com

A Review of Momondo - Cheap Flight & Hotel Searches

Momondo has been ranked one of the best travel search engines for a reason. They excel at finding cheap flight prices and have a detailed yet easy-to-use website that simplifies the booking and research process.

www.forbes.com

 

[billymach4]

google.com/flights

For intercontinental flights, like to Europe, a single round-trip ticket is almost always significantly cheaper than two separate one way tickets.

I will certainly check the other suggestions for my personal comparison.

My go to source is google flights as well. Easy ans simple with no distractions from other lead generator sites.

 

[ScoopKona]

google.com/flights

For intercontinental flights, like to Europe, a single round-trip ticket is almost always significantly cheaper than two separate one way tickets.

True. But depending on the termini, two one-way tickets often makes the most sense.

Having never been there, I'm not sure how easy it is to travel from one country to another there.

It's usually no more complicated than going through a toll-both on a US highway. I've had "four countries in a day" days.

Standard rules apply: Pack light and be flexible. But getting there from LAS, your absolute best bet is to fly direct from LAS to a European city, and then get closer to Italy or Greece. Condor or Edelweiss will get you closest. Virgin Atlantic might be less expensive in the long run. The British love to pop down to Italy or Greece for their holidays. You'll have to check all three.

Then check the train/air cost from LHR/FRA/ZRH to and from your destinations. I much prefer trains to planes, because the view is better. And you can assemble a train lunch at the station with superlative beer, wine, cheese, butter and bread.

But in a pinch, there are low-cost flights from any European city to any other European city. If you can bring a small backpack and check no bags, you can hop on any mode of transportation and be on your way. Pack mules never have any fun in Europe.

 

[Passepartout]

I have often felt when I get on a plane that no two people on there paid the same amount for their tickets.

We just research on Kayak some, then choose the schedule that works best for us. It will change, and the price will change too before the trip launches. Try for airlines that allow no-or low cost rebooking. Book direct- not through a consolidator. Less people to point fingers at each other saying- It's THEIR fault!

Dave, I think you are trying to do a 'one-and-done' Italy/Greece trip. I'll tell you, it's TOO MUCH! You- and/or Jeff will burn out and the whole mess will be an overheated blurr of someone else's 'must sees'.

For Air, book it as two- one ways. Fly into your departure city 2 days ahead. Book a hotel there for 2 nights and see the sights. Then AFTER the cruise, jump a train to the departure city again for 2 nights- You'll be ready to get home after 2-3 weeks out of a suitcase. See the sights within a day-trip or two, and just know that you'll be back.

Try NOT to overdo this. You'll regret it if you do. Otherwise just book one of those 'Big Bus' guided see-it-all tours where they handle all the logistics of where you'll sleep/eat/sightsee.

I can hardly wait to see how this works out!

Jim

 

[ScoopKona]

Try NOT to overdo this. You'll regret it if you do.

Adding to this advice -- not only is it not advisable to try to pack everything into one trip, it is impossible. Can't be done. The people who want to see the entirety of Europe in 14 days are constantly chasing the next sight, the next line, the next connection. It is rush, rush, rush all the time. And it is absolutely no fun at all. I'll never understand why people travel this way. And the biggest offenders are Americans. (Probably because they don't get out much.)

The selfie-happy Asian tour groups may not see all that much in their blind rush to snap a selfie in front of every European landmark, but at least they're getting what they came for. So they don't look miserable all the time. European travelers in Europe drive like maniacs. But then they slow down and stay in one place to "soak it in."

When I see a couple yelling at a waiter, overloaded with bags, looking like they'd like to find a divorce attorney, they are invariably Americans who are trying to do too much.

 

[sun starved Gayle]

I like Google flights as well, and also skyscanner.

 

[bjones9942]

I use both google flights, and secretflying.com. I've found too, that if you're staying someplace for a month, AirBnb renters frequently offer substantial discounts.

 

[bizaro86]

google.com/flights

For intercontinental flights, like to Europe, a single round-trip ticket is almost always significantly cheaper than two separate one way tickets.

You can search round-trips using itasoftware using exactly the same procedure I outlined above. I did the search mentioned for this July and 2 one-ways was the same lowest price as a round trip.

 

[nomoretslt]

Sounds like a fun trip. We did something similar, and Airfare was frustrating. We were flying to Rome, spending 12 days in Italy (2 days on our own in Rome then 10 day tour). Then flying from Rome to Heathrow, England. A few days there, then transatlantic cruise to NYC (I gave you some details when you were asking about Stonehenge and other places in England). I only needed one way flights to Rome. A one way ticket was more expensive than round trip…by a lot. So we just didn’t show for the return trip. Not recommended, I was a bit nervous we’d get a letter, but nothing.
Does the cruise line offer airfare deals?
we did a direct flight from Newark,NJ to Rome on United. I was astonished we were served two meals and a good snack in economy!! I like the idea of a flight from LV to Newark late in the day, spend a night at an airport hotel (they have bus shuttles and don’t even think about exploring Newark) get your European flight the next morning. If we ever get to go to Italy again, we would take a flight from Myrtle to Newark and do the same. We also talked about using the trains in Italy next time. Now that we know the places we want to spend more time at.
it’s tricky figuring out airlines and airfare. I personally would first figure out the easiest way to get there. I like the idea of Venice first down to Rome, board ship and relax. Fly back from Athens.
you received a lot of good suggestions for different types of internet searches. I’m going to check those out. Italy 2024 is what I’d like to do.
Happy planning. Cruises are great.

 

[slip]

Good luck planning this trip @DaveNV. I'm getting a headache just reading this thread.

You have plenty experience traveling so I'm sure you'll find the balance you two need to make the trip enjoyable.

It's will be a tough balancing act , you can always say you will return but the truth is, you can't always do that. Age, Health, cost, wanting to visit other places all come into play.

In the end, I'm sure you'll make it a great trip and I'll enjoy reading about it.

 

[ScoopKona]

Then flying from Rome to Heathrow, England. A few days there, then transatlantic cruise to NYC (I gave you some details when you were asking about Stonehenge and other places in England). I only needed one way flights to Rome. A one way ticket was more expensive than round trip…by a lot.

Ryanair is selling London to Rome for $18.58. I could fly there Saturday for less than $20 -- if I can make my way to London.

I do my Europe bookings in Europe (aside from rail passes, which must be purchased outside of Europe).

European travel websites are in general much better than US ones.

 

[DaveNV]

Wow, thanks everyone! Lots to mull over.

For the record: The cruise credit is what is prompting all of this. The cruise I have my eye on is only 7 nights. It hits the high-point stops we've discussed wanting to see in Greece. That's all we have interest in seeing there, other than the Parthenon and similar around Athens. So a couple of days in Athens before or after the cruise would do the trick.

The Italy portion of the trip (either before or after the cruise) would be seeing Venice, Florence, and Rome, over about 10 days, with high speed trains in between, in whichever direction. We are not trying to see everything in one trip, nor are we expecting to cram too much into one trip. We are not interested in a one-size-fits-all tour. "Eight countries in three days" is not our style at all.

The biggest questions I'm trying to resolve are about how to expeditiously get there and back in comfort. Not interested in Basic Economy or cattle-car flights. Even the pricing is not critical, as long as it's efficient. I know this will be an expensive vacation. My husband is diabetic, with degenerative disc disease issues, and neuropathy in his feet. So there needs to be a degree of accommodation for those limitations.

I like the idea of quality train travel, providing it gets us where we need to be on time. The question is where to catch those trains. By padding the before and after days a bit, it buys us a bit of breathing room.

I'm off to research these tips you've provided. Since this is all Summer 2024 travel, I need to decide which cruise to book now, and work on the rest later. Airfare can't be booked too far ahead in the USA. Not sure if the same limitations apply to international travel.

Thank you for educating me.

Dave

 

[bizaro86]

International airfare has approximately the same date limitations as domestic - you won't be able to book until late summer 2023 at the earliest.

 

[PcflEZFlng]

Just another data point, agreeing with @ScoopKona to try to get a nonstop to a hub European city, if you can, and then fly or train to your destination city from there.

I'm going to the Balkan Peninsula in May. I'll be there for almost a month. Similar to LAS, from SAN we don't have many direct options to Europe, but I can fly BA nonstop to London, and in premium economy fairly cheaply on AA miles. And then from there on BA to Tirana, Albania. Return will be from Ljubljana to London on BA, and then nonstop on BA back to SAN. Each involves an overnight/day layover in London (good! - I can hop on the Underground and walk around, enjoy some sights, and go get some great Indian food while I'm there). But it's so worth it to avoid getting stuck in some American waypoint due to weather delays. I want to get to Europe stat, instead of wasting a day of vacation stuck in Thunderstorm Falls, Tennsylvania.

 

[ScoopKona]

J Each involves an overnight/day layover in London (good! - I can hop on the Underground and walk around, enjoy some sights, and go get some great Indian food while I'm there). But it's so worth it to avoid getting stuck in some American waypoint due to weather delays. I want to get to Europe stat, instead of wasting a day of vacation stuck in Thunderstorm Falls, Tennsylvania.

Two of my favorite "time to kill in London" stops are Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese and the area around Greenwich. The Cheese is one of the more interesting pubs in a city full of interesting pubs. Keep an eye out for the stuffed parrot, and read the article about him.

Greenwich, being a science/university town, is chock full of nice inexpensive eats, pubs, the Prime Meridian and the Cutty Sark. There are also a few places which sell eels, which were once THE dish of London. (In the same way that mussels are the dish of Brussels and the wurstplatte is the dish of Munich.)

 

[Talent312]

I used to swear by ITA Matrix, given the ease in searching multiple departure & arrival airports at once over a span of days. I say "used to" becuz recently, they quoted a fare from United that was 2x the actual fare on United's website. IDK how that happened, but now, whenever ITA Matrix shows me a flight with an atypical fare, I compare it with fares on other websites.

Typically, I'll book directly with the airline to avoid dealing with middlemen; however, if booking a flight within Europe, I have a fondness for Expedia. Their C/S was very helpful when a Euro-airline cancelled one of their flights on us.