How is Wyndham not Screwing their Owners with new Offers?

[TSGuest2017]

So I recently (in past 3 days) attended a Wyndham timeshare presentation with absolutely ZERO intention to buy. I was offered a great deal of perks to go which made it well worth the waste if 5 hours of my day and sitting and listening to someone think they are smarter than me. BUT......I DID buy something from them and personally, If i already owned points I would be livid as an owner. Below is what I bought and why i would be livid.

2 years "Try before you buy" and enough points in my try before you buy membership to also be considered VIP. So I get all the benefits of a VIP OWNER and I didnt have to sign my life away on maintenance fees. ive done the math and im basically paying less than owners and getting all the perks.

Ive logged in to my profile online and the ONLY thing i can see different between the two programs is true owners have the ability to book online but I do not. i have to call someone to book it for me. but this is the thing. I would normally book from Ebay or Craigslist from the kind owners like yourselves that have rented to me in the past for an extremely good deal. So i would have had to go through that with an owner anyhow.

Am I missing something? Anyone willing to compare the points in the book I got and thats online to see if its the same as yours as an owner? if its the same, and I get the same perks, 60+ days available upgrad units, 25-50% off points from non-VIP units, how is this not completely screwing current VIP owners?

I 100% intend to cancel my $3k investment in this tomorrow IF when i go to book tomorrow I dont get these benefits. but everything I was told and am reading suggests I do. And my right to cancel will be over in the next. couple of days.

I am usually pretty good at saving money and Ive read a TON on this message board and I dont see anyone talking about this scenario I just bought into.

So its left me wondering if you owners even know Wyndham is doing this and taking your customers away or if there is something I am missing.

Also, I am very well aware buying this has subjected me to likely getting hassled to "buy in". But I never will and Im pretty sure I could ride this out for several years based on my contract allowing me to purchase additional points at the purchase price. AND, Im pretty sure Wyndham has f*cked themselves over with that wording in my "rental" contract. Which I wont go into here. Thoughts?

 

[chapjim]

None of us owners are virgins.

 

[ronparise]

First of all, VIP units are not a thing. So I don't know what you mean by 25%-50% off non VIP units

You paid $3000. How many points do you have to use over the 2 years?

Yes I think most of us are aware of the Discovery program (at least that's what it used to be called

 

[TSGuest2017]

First of all, VIP units are not a thing. So I don't know what you mean by 25%-50% off non VIP units

You paid $3000. How many points do you have to use over the 2 years?

Yes I think most of us are aware of the Discovery program (at least that's what it used to be called

i get 25%-50% off the amount of points taken from my pool of points that is advertised in the book for a specific room. that's what i mean when i say "VIP" benefits.

I purchased enough to get that benefit. so more than 400k.

 

[TSGuest2017]

Im not writing this to upset anyone. Truly am not. But I certainly wont ever buy as an owner if this is how they protect their owners "interests" is all. And I am thinking I have to be missing something because I would be livid if I were an owner and this was occuring. That "renters" could reap the benefits of my commitment if they "rented" enough points is all

 

[TSGuest2017]

I also paid up front so I have zero timeframe to meet to achieve the benefits as well as had them extend the timeframe to December 2020 to use all the points

 

[nicemann]

Think you are being too vague for anyone to offer help. So you paid $3k...for over 400k in points? So does that mean 401k in points? Per year for the two years? Or total for the two years?

Also why would the 25% - 50% be a rolling percent? Did they put in writing that it is one or the other? That the membership is VIP and would get gold of platinum benefits or are you assuming that because the amount of points?

Don't think you will get anyone here mad. Most of us buy resell points anyways.

 

[paxsarah]

From things I've heard in the past about the discovery program (or whatever it's called today), it's really not a bad deal for the person who buys it (as opposed to buying retail points from Wyndham). Similar to or slightly more than MFs would be on comparable points, maybe? But it's temporary. So I don't see it as an impact on current owners, either, because it's just a tiny drop in the bucket of all owners and all reservations. Enjoy your trial program and don't buy points from Wyndham.

 

[TSGuest2017]

The only reason I see this as impacting current owners is because it is temporary for me (per say) until the end of 2020. But if it trial is similar to the benefits of ownership if the points are compared apples to apples, and they are doing this ongoing, it takes the customers from owners that would have otherwise rented from owners. And on top of that, if I as a renter get the benefits of VIP membership as an owner, then i get dibs on a unit for less of my pojnts than a non-vip Owner. So for example, if we both want a Presidential at Bonnet Creek, I would get that dibs 60 days out where a non-vip would get it at what, 30?

And further, lets just say I really end up liking it. I highly doubt it will ever be enough to commit to the maintenance fees for life. But lets say I change my mind. For TWO years, any additional points I purchase towards my rental units gets applied toward the purchase of an actual ownership unit. Thus, I could achieve VIP status fairly easily for next to nothing. if I had planned to spend this money on vacations anyhow.

Example -
Buy 400k points today for 3k
Do that 4 more times and Im at $15k "purchase" directly to windham which at the end of 2020 that $15k by contract can be apllied to a purchae of a Windham VIP Ownership.

So I ride this out til then, apply the $15k, I never signed up for a "loan" or any comitment and I get a VIP membership for pretty darn cheap. Because resales are exempt from that from what I can tell.

Perhaps Im wrong, but Im willing to bet Im not.

 

[Avislo]

Does not really affect owners much one way or the other if this is the Discovery program of old. If I remember, you cannot book on line because the program does not have all of the availability that owners get and that is why you do not have on line booking rights at this point. If you want comps on availability issues, posting what you want, when and where would be needed.

 

[TSGuest2017]

Does not really affect owners much one way or the other if this is the Discovery program of old. If I remember, you cannot book on line because the program does not have all of the availability that owners get and that is why you do not have on line booking rights at this point. If you want comps on availability issues, posting what you want, when and where would be needed.

right. goid point. i will look over dates tonight and post what I will ask for tomorrow AM when I call. If I dont get something that I know is verified available, Im dumping it

 

[Avislo]

While you are in period that you can cancel, you might want to call your sales rep. I think you are operating under the premise that you can by more than one of these contracts and have them in force together. You may be in for a surprise.

 

[paxsarah]

I'm pretty sure they're not going to let you do the discovery program five times in a row. And even if they did, a $15k credit toward the purchase of VIP eligible points is not going to get you to VIP. I don't know what the going rate on retail points is, but I'm guessing $15k would get you maybe 126k points (total guess)? I'm sure someone who's been to a sales meeting more recently (or ever, since I've never attended) can tell you the current range of offers).

And I'm not sure what you're saying about VIP and presidential units here. I booked a presidential suite (not PR, just presidential) at 13 months for this upcoming Christmas, and I'm all resale. I know that PR units are primarily held for PR owners until a certain date, but I don't know if VIPs get an earlier crack at them before the rest of us. I do know that that isn't really a benefit that's ever concerned me, so if you plan to use it, have fun. You're not taking anything away from me.

 

[ronparise]

i get 25%-50% off the amount of points taken from my pool of points that is advertised in the book for a specific room. that's what i mean when i say "VIP" benefits.

I purchased enough to get that benefit. so more than 400k.

400000 points over two years is the equivalent of 200 points per year and your mf, if you owned 200000 points, would be $1200 a year or about $2500 over the two years. If you really get a 25%-50% discount on all your points thats great, but I bet not

The only reason I see this as impacting current owners is because it is temporary for me (per say) until the end of 2020. But if it trial is similar to the benefits of ownership if the points are compared apples to apples, and they are doing this ongoing, it takes the customers from owners that would have otherwise rented from owners. And on top of that, if I as a renter get the benefits of VIP membership as an owner, then i get dibs on a unit for less of my pojnts than a non-vip Owner. So for example, if we both want a Presidential at Bonnet Creek, I would get that dibs 60 days out where a non-vip would get it at what, 30?

And further, lets just say I really end up liking it. I highly doubt it will ever be enough to commit to the maintenance fees for life. But lets say I change my mind. For TWO years, any additional points I purchase towards my rental units gets applied toward the purchase of an actual ownership unit. Thus, I could achieve VIP status fairly easily for next to nothing. if I had planned to spend this money on vacations anyhow.

Example -
Buy 400k points today for 3k
Do that 4 more times and Im at $15k "purchase" directly to windham which at the end of 2020 that $15k by contract can be apllied to a purchae of a Windham VIP Ownership.

So I ride this out til then, apply the $15k, I never signed up for a "loan" or any comitment and I get a VIP membership for pretty darn cheap. Because resales are exempt from that from what I can tell.

Perhaps Im wrong, but Im willing to bet Im not.

$15000 dosent get you close to VIP.. a 700000 point account (gold) is going to cost you something like $125000 thousand. credit your $15000 and thats still a boatload of money

and the Discovery program dosent take anything from any owner.. Its no different than the new car I bought. I think I got a good deal at $35000 If I find out later someone else got the same car for $30000. good for them.. but it didnt take anything away from me... I still have my car parked in the garage, and it still works well enough to take me where I want to go when I want to go there. I couldnt care less that someone else got the same thing for less

How are you going to feel if you get a great deal on a purchase 2 or 3 years from now, and spend only $100000 for your VIP account and then learn that I had a VIP account that cost me less than $30000

Make your deal, and good on you if its a good deal, but it dosent change anything about my deal and how I feel toward you or Wyndham

What you dont know is that timeshare sales people lwill ie and cheat to get you signed up. What most of us here agree on, is that if their lips are moving they are lying. I dont know what they told you or what road they walked you down but Im willing to bet you werent told the whole story

enjoy and good luck

 

[uscav8r]

right. goid point. i will look over dates tonight and post what I will ask for tomorrow AM when I call. If I dont get something that I know is verified available, Im dumping it

While availability for the general ownership can be limited for some resorts at some times if year, and it is always preferable to book early, the Discovery program has been reported to have some of its own exclusive inventory that you can book closer to check in than what would be expected for a normal owner. This is not taking anything away from existing owners as the inventory comes from Wyndham's outstanding (unsold) points and deeds.

The discounts are not applied to all reservations, but only to those booked within a certain timeframe from check in. There are no guarantees of availability.

As a former Discovery package owner, I would recomm MF this approach, since you have 2 years to book:

1) try out the short booking window availability in the first 3-9 months to see if you can get a discounted unit (you're probably Silver VIP which means you get discounts at 60 days and a potential upgrade if booked within 30 days). Be prepared for limited availability if you wait this long.

2) to maximize availability begin looking for a vacation at the very opening of your booking window. Depending on when you want this vacation, you can begin looking now, but do not wait until you have only 9 months to go before your package expires.

3) don't buy anything developer from Wyndham even if they give you credit for your Discovery purchase(s). It isn't worth it.

FYI, I had a Discovery package that I used to get into Wyndham, but that was over 12 years ago and before I learned about the resale market and TUG. Now I will only buy resale.





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[TSGuest2017]

While you are in period that you can cancel, you might want to call your sales rep. I think you are operating under the premise that you can by more than one of these contracts and have them in force together. You may be in for a surprise.

My contract says I can "add" points to my current contract for the same purchase price I bought these for. It also says ANY purchases made by me between now and the end of 2020 that sum of total dollars spent on points CAN be applied towards an ownership purchase.

Also, FYI, I have in writing a locked rate to buy 500,000k points if I opt for that in the future for $18,000. So the above two issues combined tend to make me think I can benefit from what they offered me and i personally think this screws the owners. Wyndham hasn't thought their "discovery" program through for cash buyers. they make thir money of financing these. I just worked a way around that I think. but I will know tomorrow.

 

[TSGuest2017]

400000 points over two years is the equivalent of 200 points per year and your mf, if you owned 200000 points, would be $1200 a year or about $2500 over the two years. If you really get a 25%-50% discount on all your points thats great, but I bet not




$15000 dosent get you close to VIP.. a 700000 point account (gold) is going to cost you something like $125000 thousand. credit your $15000 and thats still a boatload of money

and the Discovery program dosent take anything from any owner.. Its no different than the new car I bought. I think I got a good deal at $35000 If I find out later someone else got the same car for $30000. good for them.. but it didnt take anything away from me... I still have my car parked in the garage, and it still works well enough to take me where I want to go when I want to go there. I couldnt care less that someone else got the same thing for less

How are you going to feel if you get a great deal on a purchase 2 or 3 years from now, and spend only $100000 for your VIP account and then learn that I had a VIP account that cost me less than $30000

Make your deal, and good on you if its a good deal, but it dosent change anything about my deal and how I feel toward you or Wyndham

What you dont know is that timeshare sales people lwill ie and cheat to get you signed up. What most of us here agree on, is that if their lips are moving they are lying. I dont know what they told you or what road they walked you down but Im willing to bet you werent told the whole story

enjoy and good luck

well, I have the proposal in writing and locked rates. 750k is $25k at the price I was offered, less than $5.50 maintenance fees and I can apply any purchases of additional points during my trial peirod to that. So I either got an incredible deal, or have a very good reason to get out of this (they lie ON paper). which can certainly be the case. I would be surprised how if they dont honor this considering they just lost a $20M lawsuit for shit like this.

I will know tomorrow when I try booking a very expensive Point vacation for a 2 month from now window.

Also, I do get the discount on less points. thats on their discovery website contract and on their website. i will find the link and post it

 

[Avislo]

My contract says I can "add" points to my current contract for the same purchase price I bought these for. It also says ANY purchases made by me between now and the end of 2020 that sum of total dollars spent on points CAN be applied towards an ownership purchase.

Also, FYI, I have in writing a locked rate to buy 500,000k points if I opt for that in the future for $18,000. So the above two issues combined tend to make me think I can benefit from what they offered me and i personally think this screws the owners. Wyndham hasn't thought their "discovery" program through for cash buyers. they make thir money of financing these. I just worked a way around that I think. but I will know tomorrow.

Using another poster's analogy to a car, test drive it, if you like it buy it. You may not want to buy more of anything for about 9 months to test the car.

Your end game would be Silver VIP. The higher of the 25 percent Silver Discount at the then current Silver Discount window or the Resort Special discount rate (if that program still exists and is viable).

 

[wjappraise]

well, I have the proposal in writing and locked rates. 750k is $25k at the price I was offered

Hook. Line. And sinker.


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[TSGuest2017]

The only way I would ever but it, is if I somehow get it dor next to nothing by buying more rental points to achieve enough "purchase price" credits to make it to VIP status.

No way I would ever invest in a program where owners dont know the true benefits of their interest. Its clear to me that is the case here from my talks with the sales people. they couldn't answer all my questions.

 

[TSGuest2017]

Hook. Line. And sinker.


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except Im never paying that. EVER

 

[wjappraise]

You "purchased" perhaps as many as 154,000 points, but likely less. The difference between what you purchased and what you currently have are bonus points. So if you are calculating your cost per point including all of your bonus points that will lead you to an errant conclusion. I assume you have calculated your locked price based upon all of your bonus points. And that is not what your written contract says. Your written contract will allow you to buy the points at the same price point of the actual point you bought. Not including the bonus points you were given. So 750,000 points is going to cost you about $150,000.

Remember Wyndham has been at this a lot longer than any of us have. And they know how to write a contract.


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[wjappraise]

except Im never paying that. EVER

But you did pay $3000 for points you will find very difficult to use. And that may get you a week somewhere in a two bedroom unit off peak.

Please know I'm not trying to convince you to not enjoy your "deal". It's just experience trying to tell you that the deal isn't as fantastic as you believe it to be. I would love to have you came back after your week long vacation in a four bedroom presidential unit at Myrtle Beach over July 4 week because then I'd ask to get your deal. But it won't happen.


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[TSGuest2017]

You "purchased" perhaps as many as 154,000 points, but likely less. The difference between what you purchased and what you currently have are bonus points. So if you are calculating your cost per point including all of your bonus points that will lead you to an errant conclusion. I assume you have calculated your locked price based upon all of your bonus points. And that is not what your written contract says. Your written contract will allow you to buy the points at the same price point of the actual point you bought. Not including the bonus points you were given. So 750,000 points is going to cost you about $150,000.

Remember Wyndham has been at this a lot longer than any of us have. And they know how to write a contract.


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no mention of bonus anything in contract unless you are talking about additional 1,000 points for $.10 each. Not considering this at all

 

[SmithOp]

Also, FYI, I have in writing a locked rate to buy 500,000k points if I opt for that in the future for $18,000. So the above two issues combined tend to make me think I can benefit from what they offered me and i personally think this screws the owners. Wyndham hasn't thought their "discovery" program through for cash buyers. they make thir money of financing these. I just worked a way around that I think. but I will know tomorrow.

I don't own Wyndham or ever stayed at one, but I have been to more than 10 timeshare sales pitches. Every one of them was designed to make me feel like I was getting a deal no one else could, and getting the better of their sales dept.

You've been told this inventory is separate from other owners pool, so its not affecting them at all. It will be interesting to see how you feel tomorrow.




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