• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $16,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $16 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Hospitality pay and how it brought my thoughts around to tipping.....

easyrider

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
10,102
Reaction score
3,915
Points
548
Location
Palm Springs of Washinton
Resorts Owned
Worldmark * * Villa Del Palmar UVCI * * Vacation Internationale*
Yep, and demand higher pay. This ripple effect pushes salaries and wages up from the new minimum wage. Again, the end result is that minimum wagers are exactly where they always were in the living wage spectrum.
I doubt it because if the minimum wage was a living wage many in this group would seek training for a better job. Those that are happy in the "minimum wage jobs " would be earning enough to not be in poverty and their wage would support those that need subsidies.

Given the choice of two jobs that pay the same, one desirable and the other not desirable, many would rather do the desirable job, imo. Training and education often increase the desirability and perks of a job.

What you seem to saying is that others would need a raise if the minimum wage were raised to $25. I think you are right because if you were making less than $25 per hour you would get the minimum wage at least. If a person was earning more than this why would they care what the minimum was ?

Bill
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
531
Points
248
I doubt it because if the minimum wage was a living wage many in this group would seek training for a better job. Those that are happy in the "minimum wage jobs " would be earning enough to not be in poverty and their wage would support those that need subsidies.

Given the choice of two jobs that pay the same, one desirable and the other not desirable, many would rather do the desirable job, imo. Training and education often increase the desirability and perks of a job.

What you seem to saying is that others would need a raise if the minimum wage were raised to $25. I think you are right because if you were making less than $25 per hour you would get the minimum wage at least. If a person was earning more than this why would they care what the minimum was ?

Bill
It's simple economics. Companies don't offer $25 today out of the kindness of their hearts. They do it to compete for workforce. If minimum wage goes to $25, there is no incentive for the retail worker to gain skills to grow into a $25 job just to get another $25 job, so now those jobs creep up to $40 to compete for skilled workers. This follows all the way up the chain. The previous $40 worker now looks for $60, the previous $60 manager now seeks $80, and on up the chain. Now you have an $80 manager living in a house that was $250K but is now $450K (spec market insanity aside), while the $25 min wage worker couple is paying $1500 a month to live in the same $800 dump they were in before. Food, cars, Uber, everything goes up accordingly. To suggest a mandated economy is to not understand human economic nature. Ask the USSR.
 

easyrider

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
10,102
Reaction score
3,915
Points
548
Location
Palm Springs of Washinton
Resorts Owned
Worldmark * * Villa Del Palmar UVCI * * Vacation Internationale*
It's simple economics. Companies don't offer $25 today out of the kindness of their hearts. They do it to compete for workforce. If minimum wage goes to $25, there is no incentive for the retail worker to gain skills to grow into a $25 job just to get another $25 job, so now those jobs creep up to $40 to compete for skilled workers. This follows all the way up the chain. The previous $40 worker now looks for $60, the previous $60 manager now seeks $80, and on up the chain. Now you have an $80 manager living in a house that was $250K but is now $450K (spec market insanity aside), while the $25 min wage worker couple is paying $1500 a month to live in the same $800 dump they were in before. Food, cars, Uber, everything goes up accordingly. To suggest a mandated economy is to not understand human economic nature. Ask the USSR.
I doubt it.

Bill
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
9,541
Reaction score
4,095
Points
448
I'd like to see a maximum wage. I don't understand quibbling over those trying to survive while CEOs make millions every year. It is a predatory system as wages for the high end have gone through the roof over the decades while min wage has stagnated for decades. I own dividend paying stocks because I wanted a piece of the action. So now I sometimes get to vote my teeny proxy on executive compensation.

It doesn't make sense to me that the people on the front lines don't get to share in the success that was only possible through their work. The hard, dirty, menial, etc. Every place has the worst jobs. CEOs are celebrated, custodians are forgotten. Now, jabs are taken at people in jobs that others consider "starter jobs". Not supposed to do that job unless you're a teen, etc. There is dignity in all work. Unless you've walked a mile in her shoes, you just don't know what brought 30 yr old Wanda to be a burger flipper and keep that job 10 years.
 
Last edited:

easyrider

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
10,102
Reaction score
3,915
Points
548
Location
Palm Springs of Washinton
Resorts Owned
Worldmark * * Villa Del Palmar UVCI * * Vacation Internationale*
I think you're living in a fantasy world if you think raising the minimum wage to $25/hr wouldn't cause inflation across the board, including rent, food, transportation, etc.

Kurt
I've read the arguments of both sides. History doesn't really support the idea that raising the minimum wage increases inflation significantly. There are many articles but this Investopedia outlines the two viewpoints fairly well, imo. Raising wages to a living wage could cause inflationary pressures but much of that could be offset with the buying power of those that receive higher wages.

Bill


The Bottom Line
So, is raising the minimum wage a good idea for the economy? Suffice it to say, raising the minimum wage to an excessively high rate would exert inflationary pressure on the economy, but increasing it to keep pace with inflation would only have a minimal effect.
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
7,043
Reaction score
1,136
Points
448
Minimum wage should be based off of current unemployment levels. Welfare and such should be at a level where any able bodied person would rather seek employment.
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
531
Points
248
I've read the arguments of both sides. History doesn't really support the idea that raising the minimum wage increases inflation significantly. There are many articles but this Investopedia outlines the two viewpoints fairly well, imo. Raising wages to a living wage could cause inflationary pressures but much of that could be offset with the buying power of those that receive higher wages.

Bill


The Bottom Line
So, is raising the minimum wage a good idea for the economy? Suffice it to say, raising the minimum wage to an excessively high rate would exert inflationary pressure on the economy, but increasing it to keep pace with inflation would only have a minimal effect.
So you think a $25 minimum wage is keeping up with inflation?

By the way, that's kind of what I was saying when I said the minimum wage should be set somewhere just below prevailing market wages as a safety net. Index increases would allow this.
 

easyrider

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
10,102
Reaction score
3,915
Points
548
Location
Palm Springs of Washinton
Resorts Owned
Worldmark * * Villa Del Palmar UVCI * * Vacation Internationale*
So you think a $25 minimum wage is keeping up with inflation?

By the way, that's kind of what I was saying when I said the minimum wage should be set somewhere just below prevailing market wages as a safety net. Index increases would allow this.
It's hard to tell but for a single person considering the costs of housing , transportation and other goods, $25 per hour would be worth it to show up and become a tax payer instead of a tax payer cost, imo.

Bill
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
531
Points
248
It's hard to tell but for a single person considering the costs of housing , transportation and other goods, $25 per hour would be worth it to show up and become a tax payer instead of a tax payer cost, imo.

Bill
It would, but enacted today would lead to the economic snowball I'm talking about. Also, I wouldn't assume that pumping minimum wage to $25 would result in an actual job for your example to go take. Case in point, in Palos Verde South of LA, the council wisely decided to legislate a COVID pay stipend grocery stores were required to pay in their town, I think it was $4/hr. The result? The stores shut down. Employers are more sensitive to wages than you think.
 

nerodog

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,934
Reaction score
1,183
Points
373
Location
Portugal
It's simple economics. Companies don't offer $25 today out of the kindness of their hearts. They do it to compete for workforce. If minimum wage goes to $25, there is no incentive for the retail worker to gain skills to grow into a $25 job just to get another $25 job, so now those jobs creep up to $40 to compete for skilled workers. This follows all the way up the chain. The previous $40 worker now looks for $60, the previous $60 manager now seeks $80, and on up the chain. Now you have an $80 manager living in a house that was $250K but is now $450K (spec market insanity aside), while the $25 min wage worker couple is paying $1500 a month to live in the same $800 dump they were in before. Food, cars, Uber, everything goes up accordingly. To suggest a mandated economy is to not understand human economic nature. Ask the USSR.
That's what I'm saying !!....
 

beejaybeeohio

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,982
Reaction score
684
Points
323
Location
Close to the most shallow Great Lake
Depending on geography, many of the front desk agents at Marriott timeshares are college graduates. Many with hospitality management degrees.
Exactly! My college degreed niece-in-law was a costume designer for a Marriott resort theatre and was paid $12 an hour. She loved her work and at least got health insurance as a benefit, but sadly has been unemployed since the covid shutdown.
 

beejaybeeohio

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,982
Reaction score
684
Points
323
Location
Close to the most shallow Great Lake
Has anyone else noticed that salons, restaurants, tourist attractions, etc. that let you pay via Ipad now have a tip line starting at a minimum of 20%? I believe you can enter a different amount.

I'm in favor of tipping for service for those who perform one, but it did bother me when we recently took a boat excursion to Bull Island SC and sure enough there was that ubiquitous "add a tip" when we paid for our trip via credit card on their Ipad on the way back to the dock. There was a captain and a naturalist on the boat ride to/from the island-perhaps we should be tipping the captain, copilot and flight attendants on airplanes?
 

joestein

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
723
Points
324
Location
Marlboro, New Jersey
One of my daughter's finally got a job (thank god). She is making $12.50/hour as a cashier at the dollar store. It is 50 cents over the state minimum of $12/hr.

I believe the minimum wage in NJ is going up $1/year until it hits $15.

I think the federal minimum wage is a joke. They should go back to the last time it was raised and retroactively adjust for inflation. They should then tie the minimum wage going forward to inflation.
 

rapmarks

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
7,858
Reaction score
2,866
Points
499
When I was a teenager I was able to get a job at railway express agency in downtown Chicago every summer . I had typing and stenographer skills and mostly filled in as secretary. One summer I was in a department that worked on claims. There was a table loaded with long boxes of hand written claim receipts in duplicate. My job was to remove the perforated edge and do some sort of alphabetical order with the claims, all day. After about three boxes, I would notice one box missing. I discovered a much older gentleman was doing the same job at a much slower pace. Later I was warned to not work so fast or I would be out of a job.
This job was the most mind numbing boredom I ever experienced and strengthened my resolve to finish college. all the jobs paid about the same but I can’t imagine getting any satisfaction from some of them. I made enough from my summers to pay my college expenses and go on to become a teacher. U nfortunately that job paid less than my claim sorter job
 
Last edited:

Bunk

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
770
Reaction score
547
Points
303
Location
New York
We were in Marriott's Harbour Club for a week recently. We had no dealings with housekeeping during our trip. We left a 20 dollar tip but it does bother me that we are expected to tip the cleaning staff because they cleaned up the room before we got there and when we left and performed no other services in between.

@beejaybeeohio; you are spot on about the tours. We did the dolphin tour in Hilton Head. There was only one "crew" who operated the boat. And he reminded us to tip him. We have no way of knowing whether he owns the boat or how much he is being paid by the tour operator, but we are pressured to leave a tip. I always do, but have gotten to the point where I resent having to deal with this.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
9,541
Reaction score
4,095
Points
448
Exactly! My college degreed niece-in-law was a costume designer for a Marriott resort theatre and was paid $12 an hour. She loved her work and at least got health insurance as a benefit, but sadly has been unemployed since the covid shutdown.
Wow, what a cool job! Especially when young, I took jobs that sounded fun, valuing happiness over money.

With that experience, tho, doors will open.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
9,541
Reaction score
4,095
Points
448
One of my daughter's finally got a job (thank god). She is making $12.50/hour as a cashier at the dollar store. It is 50 cents over the state minimum of $12/hr.

I believe the minimum wage in NJ is going up $1/year until it hits $15.

I think the federal minimum wage is a joke. They should go back to the last time it was raised and retroactively adjust for inflation. They should then tie the minimum wage going forward to inflation.
Yes. It was allowed to stagnate, which never should have happened. I think it should advance at the same rate as SS COLA. How else are current workers going to float retirees?
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
7,043
Reaction score
1,136
Points
448
Yes. It was allowed to stagnate, which never should have happened. I think it should advance at the same rate as SS COLA. How else are current workers going to float retirees?
Maybe ease retirees off of SS so they are less of a burden on workers.
 

rapmarks

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
7,858
Reaction score
2,866
Points
499
Maybe ease retirees off of SS so they are less of a burden on workers.
So retirees paid in for maybe fifty years and then are told they are a burden for younger workers and can’t have SS?
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
531
Points
248
Us "ol folks on SS" would be a burden on everyone if benefits were cut. Maybe ease CEOs off their mega million compensation to better pay the peons who work for them?
I hate the term "benefits" for something we've paid a big chunk of our income for all our working lives.
 

Ty1on

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
531
Points
248
Us "ol folks on SS" would be a burden on everyone if benefits were cut. Maybe ease CEOs off their mega million compensation to better pay the peons who work for them?
Also, those CEOs only have to pay FICA on a very tiny portion of those millions.
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
7,043
Reaction score
1,136
Points
448
So retirees paid in for maybe fifty years and then are told they are a burden for younger workers and can’t have SS?
It is what has been talked about for over 20 years. Too many retirees and not enough workers. Nothing new or to get upset about. A lot of people have not paid in a sufficient amount.
 
Last edited:

rapmarks

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
7,858
Reaction score
2,866
Points
499
It is what has been talked about for over 20 years. Too many retirees and not enough workers. Nothing new or to get upset about. A lot of people have not paid in a sufficient amount.
It is based on earnings. I get $72 a month. I don't get a bonanza If I was living off ss, I would get very upset about it. And if I were paying in and found out they stopped paying the people at retirement age, i sure would not count on it
 
Last edited:
Top