HICV: Final Collection Notice

[viper87]

I'm a Canadian citizen with a timeshare through HICV that still has an outstanding mortgage and associated maintenance fees. In late February, I sent a registered letter requesting the cancellation of pre-authorized payments on my credit card.

As a Canadian resident, I'm not overly concerned about a potential negative impact on my Canadian credit rating. I am not aware of any other implications for non-payment.

Over the past six months, I haven't responded to their phone calls, which all seem to follow the same script.

Today, I received a final collection notice from HICV. It mentions potential legal action and additional fees if the account is referred to a foreclosure attorney.

My question is: Considering my situation as a Canadian citizen, is now the right time to propose a deed in lieu of foreclosure? Alternatively, should I continue to disregard these communications?

 

[dioxide45]

It certainly won't hurt to propose a deed in lieu, just make sure the agreement indicates you won't be paying any of the back fees or other costs. Deed in lieu is cheaper for them than a foreclosure.

 

[viper87]

Thank you @dioxide45 for your response. Do you know if this request is to be in writing via a registered letter or simply by calling their phone number?

I should also note that the date of their letter is 2024/06/15 yet it was only received in my community mailbox today. From that alone I am outside of their 30-day window to respond.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It certainly won't hurt to propose a deed in lieu, just make sure the agreement indicates you won't be paying any of the back fees or other costs. Deed in lieu is cheaper for them than a foreclosure.

I second this advice.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Thank you @dioxide45 for your response. Do you know if this request is to be in writing via a registered letter or simply by calling their phone number?

I should also note that the date of their letter is 2024/06/15 yet it was only received in my community mailbox today. From that alone I am outside of their 30-day window to respond.

I don’t know that you’LL get past first level customer service on the phone who are willing to do anything. I’d send something in writing. No reason to pay extra to have it registered.

 

[LannyPC]

I'm sorry to hear of your plight. Sadly, we get many newcomers on here with the same situation as yours asking for advice. The one other important piece of advice we like to give to people in your situation is to not go seeking the "help" or services of these companies, charities, and/or law firms that claim they can get you out of your plight or supposedly exit or cancel your timeshare and all its fees.

 

[viper87]

Thanks @LannyPC. I have no intention of dealing with third parties and decided to go on my own based upon the information I found on this website. Where I am hung up is on this foreclosure notice. While I feel that I am still financially insulated by location, up to this point this TS company has had no real expenses since it is just money moving around their own companies.

I have drafted the following letter:

Dear Holiday Inn Club Vacations,

I am writing to formally request a Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure for my timeshare properties located in Florida and Nevada. My account numbers for these properties are [Account Number for Florida property] and [Account Number for Nevada property].

I am requesting that Holiday Inn Club Vacations accept a Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure in full and complete satisfaction of the outstanding debt associated with these properties.

I am willing to relinquish all ownership rights and interests in these timeshare properties to Holiday Inn Club Vacations without any further obligation or liability on my part, including but not limited to the payment of any past due amounts, late fees, penalties, or legal costs.

I request that Holiday Inn Club Vacations provide me with a written confirmation of the acceptance of the Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure and a release of any and all claims against me.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

And that is pretty much it with the $1.40 postage stamp.

 

[TUGBrian]

the warning is simply another step in the collections process.

while its certainly possible the next step IS foreclosure, as mentioned above for many states that is expensive and time consuming for the resort and they tend to reach out instead to negotiate a surrender of the ownership back willingly.

 

[Ski-Dad]

@viper87 Keep us apprised how this turns out. There have been no reported cases of Canadians taking a hit on US timeshares, but most of the reports are limited to MF. You still have a debt, which was likely assumed by a third party lender. I am doubtful they will spend the $$ for cross border legal counsel.

 

[viper87]

I certainly will @Ski-Dad! I have been receiving additional phone calls now from a new Florida number but the voicemail is the same in that I am to call HICV to make payment.

I have decided use @TUGBrian's suggestion to wait to see if they will offer the deed in lieu of foreclosure. Oh, and I have added this new phone number to my block list.

 

[viper87]

I received two letters from HICV stating that they may be able to offer me a Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure! It says that I need to contact their inventory recovery team to start the process. It continually repeats that I may be eligible for this process which sounds like it is still at their discretion (ie: maybe am I willing to pay to get out).

So this is what I've been waiting for, correct?

 

[TUGBrian]

yes that is correct.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I received two letters from HICV stating that they may be able to offer me a Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure! It says that I need to contact their inventory recovery team to start the process. It continually repeats that I may be eligible for this process which sounds like it is still at their discretion (ie: maybe am I willing to pay to get out).

So this is what I've been waiting for, correct?

If you're doing a deed in lieu I'd probably tell them to pound sand if they're asking you for money in exchange for that deed in lieu, but that's just me. Foreclosures and auctions aren't cheap and you're basically judgment proof living in another country.

 

[viper87]

If you're doing a deed in lieu I'd probably tell them to pound sand if they're asking you for money in exchange for that deed in lieu, but that's just me. Foreclosures and auctions aren't cheap and you're basically judgment proof living in another country.

Thank you for the financial description of foreclosures and auctions. And as I am in another country this certainly gives me the edge in negotiations.

 

[viper87]

I'm done - free and clear! I responded to the email from September but never heard anything back. I then received a package via FedEx in November with the deed in lieu of foreclosure offer but only for the smaller of my two contracts.

I called the number to ask about the second and larger contract. I was told it was already sent to their lawyers and was proceeding with foreclosure. But she did ask why I hadn't responded to the letter from September and when I told that I did then she was instantly able to pull the second contract out of foreclosure.

Anyway, I sent back the first package and I later found through the "Orange Country Florida" comptroller website that the deed in lieu of foreclosure was completed. And just last week I received another package with the same offer for the second contract.

So while I may be ahead of myself by stating that I'm free and clear since the second package has yet to be received, there should be no barriers in processing this package since they processed the first one.

Up until my access to TransUnion expired in November, my credit score was 900. Zero impact on my credit score.

Thank you again to everyone for your advice and guidance!

 

[andre10056]

Thanks for your update posted yesterday. I found the entire thread to be fascinating.

First of all, I am not at all surprised that HICV offered you a deed in lieu of foreclosure on the Florida timeshare. That's all they can do in Florida!

Here's an incredible work by TUG contributor Grammarhero, a lawyer and fellow timeshare owner who did an ENORMOUS amount of work in trying to inform everybody about applicable laws in each state:

Links to Official State Timeshare Laws and Guides/Manuals

@TUGBrian @DeniseM @CalGalTraveler take a look. This weekend, I’m creating a spreadsheet with official links to states’ timeshare laws, as well as their statuses as to non-judicial, anti-deficiency foreclosures. In the meantime, I will just keep adding notes. * Legal Disclaimer: This list...

tugbbs.com

As Grammarhero wrote about Florida:

FL, inaction or non-objection results in estate, anti-deficiency foreclosure, but objection leads to judicial, deficiency action

In other words, as pertains to timeshares, as long as you don't state some objection (like saying "I don't owe that much" in which case a judge has to be called upon to make a decision), all the Florida timeshare entity can do is get their property (the timeshare) back but can't in any way get a judgment for any amount of money they claim is due and unpaid.

You are no doubt the beneficiary of that as to your Florida timeshare.

But your Nevada timeshare is what's particularly interesting to me. Interestingly, Nevada allows a homeowner's mortgagee (for example, a bank) to only get the property back if payments are not made as agreed. As to a single family home, then, you're off free and clear if you decide to default.

But that's apparently not the case with timeshares.

As Grammarhero wrote:

NV, defaulting TS owners have no right to non-judicial, anti-deficiency foreclosures, but defaulting homeowners do.

So a timeshare entity, unlike a homeowner's mortgagee, can get a deficiency judgment after suing you for everything: unpaid timeshare mortgage, unpaid maintenance fees, unpaid late fees and other administrative fees, attorney's fees, etc.

And the timeshare entity can indeed sue you in Canada just like it can sue you in distant US states. It's just a matter of emailing your info to a collection attorney in the appropriate jurisdiction who will take tens of collection actions into a small district court and just go down the list in an assembly line manner, often spending less than a minute per case if the defendant is a no show so he/she gets an automatic default judgment.

So, if you're right about the Nevada entity offering you a deed in lieu of foreclosure opportunity, CONGRATULATIONS! What a triumph!

Keep us informed!

 

[viper87]

Hi Andre,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply and introducing me to Grammarhero's work.

I just visited the Orange County Florida Comptroller website again to review each of the documents. While the smaller contract are points for the Lake Tahoe property, the mortgage is a "Trust Agreement for Orange Lake Land Trust" and "executed by and among Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust, Inc., a Florida Corporation, as the trustee of the Trust, Orange Lake Country Club, Inc., a Florida corporation, n/k/a Holiday Inn Club Vacations Incorporated, a Delaware corporation and Orange Lake Trust Owners' Association, Inc., a Florida not-for-profit corporation". This document is labelled as "MORTGAGE".

It would appear that I never had a mortgage in Nevada and they just allocated the "Signature points" from that property and rolled it into a Florida mortgage. I have not yet been successful in finding a comparable website for Lake Tahoe as I have for Orange County.

I should also mention, both of these timeshares were purchased at Orange Lake. Would it then be possible that the HICV agent would therefore not have a Nevada real estate license?

 

[andre10056]

Hi Andre,

Thank you very much for your detailed reply and introducing me to Grammarhero's work.

I just visited the Orange County Florida Comptroller website again to review each of the documents. While the smaller contract are points for the Lake Tahoe property, the mortgage is a "Trust Agreement for Orange Lake Land Trust" and "executed by and among Chicago Title Timeshare Land Trust, Inc., a Florida Corporation, as the trustee of the Trust, Orange Lake Country Club, Inc., a Florida corporation, n/k/a Holiday Inn Club Vacations Incorporated, a Delaware corporation and Orange Lake Trust Owners' Association, Inc., a Florida not-for-profit corporation". This document is labelled as "MORTGAGE".

It would appear that I never had a mortgage in Nevada and they just allocated the "Signature points" from that property and rolled it into a Florida mortgage. I have not yet been successful in finding a comparable website for Lake Tahoe as I have for Orange County.

I should also mention, both of these timeshares were purchased at Orange Lake. Would it then be possible that the HICV agent would therefore not have a Nevada real estate license?

Timeshares are deeded pieces of real estate. It just so happens that you don't own a year round condo but, instead, just one week of the year. But, still, as pieces of real estate, they are deeded in whatever state the real estate is located.

I remember going into a Volusia County library in New Smyrna Beach, FL where I wanted to get a library card. They asked me if I were a county resident. I responded that I was because, at that time, I owned a New Smyrna Beach timeshare. And they looked me up and in a matter of minutes informed me that they confirmed that I was indeed a Volusia County owner of real estate and immediately issued to me a library card.

So it's not so much the headquarters of the entities involved in the timeshare transaction that determines what laws apply. It doesn't matter if a member of the Saudi royal family lent you money. It's entirely where the "real estate" is located so no one cares what Saudi Arabian laws might be.

As to your question, .the salesperson would be legally required to have a Nevada real estate license in order to sell Nevada real estate, but that's just a matter of studying online or other materials and flying out there to take a supervised exam. So he may have had such a license but may not have had such a license.

 

[viper87]

Ok, now I am free and clear!

I logged into the Florida Comptroller website and I found that my second deed in lieu of foreclosure for the first contract has been submitted. I also received a tax statement regarding the second contract stating that I was no longer under any financial obligations.

I have also reviewed each of the documents regarding the second contract as well as the official deed and mortgage documents that were submitted to the Florida Comptroller. My original timeshare was to a specific apartment and specific week. A few years later it was changed from that specific apartment/week to points. And the second contract for the "Lake Tahoe Signature property" was just a deed to 50,000 points.

I have searched the Douglas County Registrar and contacted their office. There are no records of title or any outstanding debt with my surname. She gave me the number for the Nevada Registrar and they too could not find any official records with my surname.

It has been a year since I stopped paying. Just over $30K USD -- $43K CAD -- in just one year.

I again would like to thank every one for their experience and guidance throughout this process.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Ok, now I am free and clear!

I logged into the Florida Comptroller website and I found that my second deed in lieu of foreclosure for the first contract has been submitted. I also received a tax statement regarding the second contract stating that I was no longer under any financial obligations.

I have also reviewed each of the documents regarding the second contract as well as the official deed and mortgage documents that were submitted to the Florida Comptroller. My original timeshare was to a specific apartment and specific week. A few years later it was changed from that specific apartment/week to points. And the second contract for the "Lake Tahoe Signature property" was just a deed to 50,000 points.

I have searched the Douglas County Registrar and contacted their office. There are no records of title or any outstanding debt with my surname. She gave me the number for the Nevada Registrar and they too could not find any official records with my surname.

It has been a year since I stopped paying. Just over $30K USD -- $43K CAD -- in just one year.

I again would like to thank every one for their experience and guidance throughout this process.

Congratulations! That must be a huge relief.

 

[TUGBrian]

Ok, now I am free and clear!

I logged into the Florida Comptroller website and I found that my second deed in lieu of foreclosure for the first contract has been submitted. I also received a tax statement regarding the second contract stating that I was no longer under any financial obligations.

I have also reviewed each of the documents regarding the second contract as well as the official deed and mortgage documents that were submitted to the Florida Comptroller. My original timeshare was to a specific apartment and specific week. A few years later it was changed from that specific apartment/week to points. And the second contract for the "Lake Tahoe Signature property" was just a deed to 50,000 points.

I have searched the Douglas County Registrar and contacted their office. There are no records of title or any outstanding debt with my surname. She gave me the number for the Nevada Registrar and they too could not find any official records with my surname.

It has been a year since I stopped paying. Just over $30K USD -- $43K CAD -- in just one year.

I again would like to thank every one for their experience and guidance throughout this process.

just a note for US owners, if they released you from that amount of money it would not be at all surprising for them to issue a 1099-c as that debt forgiveness would be considered income and could significantly alter your tax liability for that calendar year!

I would not expect the IRS to be sympathetic in the least to your situation only caring about that 1099!

 

[Ski-Dad]

Ok, now I am free and clear!

I logged into the Florida Comptroller website and I found that my second deed in lieu of foreclosure for the first contract has been submitted. I also received a tax statement regarding the second contract stating that I was no longer under any financial obligations.

I have also reviewed each of the documents regarding the second contract as well as the official deed and mortgage documents that were submitted to the Florida Comptroller. My original timeshare was to a specific apartment and specific week. A few years later it was changed from that specific apartment/week to points. And the second contract for the "Lake Tahoe Signature property" was just a deed to 50,000 points.

I have searched the Douglas County Registrar and contacted their office. There are no records of title or any outstanding debt with my surname. She gave me the number for the Nevada Registrar and they too could not find any official records with my surname.

It has been a year since I stopped paying. Just over $30K USD -- $43K CAD -- in just one year.

I again would like to thank every one for their experience and guidance throughout this process.

Thanks for the follow-up reporting. This adds to the collective knowledge base