HGVC up for sale?

[meme020]

I was told at a Marriott presentation, that Hilton wants to sell off it's timeshare division and that Marriott and Wyndham are the two contenders. Since this was at a Marriott presentation, I don't put much stock in it. He was basically telling me that my HGVC points would be worth more if this happened because it would add nicely to my existing Marriott points. (Yes, his mouth was moving).

 

[SmithOp]

Maybe that explains the other rumor about HGVC going to Interval, but you have to consider the source, will believe it when I see it.


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[weems637]

Hilton is no longer in the property development business. They have sub'd that out. Sales and management is their thing. Yep, lips were moving....

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Interesting idea.. Most of the other big hotel chains have sold or spun off their timeshare divisions. So i would not be shocked if Hilton sold HGVC off, but don't really expect it. Seems like they are moving aggressively to expand the system with new resorts, which at least to me does not seem like a company looking to get out of the market..

 

[linsj]

Seems like they are moving aggressively to expand the system with new resorts, which at least to me does not seem like a company looking to get out of the market..

I second this.

 

[Helios]

Interesting idea.. Most of the other big hotel chains have sold or spun off their timeshare divisions. So i would not be shocked if Hilton sold HGVC off, but don't really expect it. Seems like they are moving aggressively to expand the system with new resorts, which at least to me does not seem like a company looking to get out of the market..

Starwood spun off and even changed its name. The new entity kept, for now, it's affiliation with Starwood. There are rumors that Starwood and the new timeshare entity will be sold...

Marriott spun off as well, but kept the name and affiliation.

 

[Talent312]

I was told at a Marriott presentation, that Hilton wants to sell off it's timeshare division and that Marriott and Wyndham are the two contenders...

Actually, folks, this is not far fetched. There has been "talk" about Hilton increasing investor-value by moving hotels it owns into a separate REIT, and spinning off the timeshare division, neither of which was shot-down by Hilton's President during an earnings-call in July.

In late January, the website, www.hotelnewsnow.com reported:

MCLEAN, Virginia— During Hilton Worldwide Holdings’ second-quarter earnings call with analysts Wednesday, President and CEO Chris Nassetta addressed some chatter surrounding the possibility the company might spin off some business units, such as its owned properties into a real estate investment trust.

On the possibility of a REIT spinoff, Nassetta said the company always keeps its options open. “We look at how to create the best long-term value for everybody,” he said. “We look at relative valuations, tax efficiencies, opportunities to activate in different ways various businesses against incremental costs—all those things are factors.”

On the topic of timeshare, Nassetta wouldn’t comment on a possible spinoff of Hilton Grand Vacations, but said that “we continue to explore all options and still plan to give a full update before the year is out.”

He emphasized the business unit’s strong performance. “We have really transformed this business over the last three to four years,” he said. “The majority—over 80%—of our inventory here is capital-light, and this business is cranking. It’s hitting on all cylinders.”

Hilton executives are confident this cycle is not anywhere close to ending. The company increased its full-year adjusted earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization outlook to between $2.8 billion and $2.9 billion, an increase of $20 million at the midpoint, adjusting for the sale of the Hilton Sydney.

- See more at: http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Article/16368/Nassetta-Options-open-for-spinoff#sthash.T8yzI8AN.dpuf

 

[JSparling]

How much of this would matter to existing owners/contracts? If I own a week at Kings' Land how could HGVC selling to Corp Y change that? Corp Y can't just dissolve my contract/deed. And they can't decide that what used to be a 7,000 point room for 7 nights is now a 20,000 point room. Or can they? I see it more like they could change the future, or do things like eliminate a perk or tweak a system. But some things are untouchable like the general/overall program and structure.

I look at it like this. If I have a lease in an apartment building and you buy the building you can't raise my rent until my lease runs out. When you buy the building you're inheriting all the leases and can't amend them until they are up for renewal. Equating that to HGVC, I have a deed that never "runs out". So I wouldn't think a new ownership could change much for existing owners. Just future owners.

 

[Ty1on]

How much of this would matter to existing owners/contracts? If I own a week at Kings' Land how could HGVC selling to Corp Y change that? Corp Y can't just dissolve my contract/deed. And they can't decide that what used to be a 7,000 point room for 7 nights is now a 20,000 point room. Or can they? I see it more like they could change the future, or do things like eliminate a perk or tweak a system. But some things are untouchable like the general/overall program and structure.

I look at it like this. If I have a lease in an apartment building and you buy the building you can't raise my rent until my lease runs out. When you buy the building you're inheriting all the leases and can't amend them until they are up for renewal. Equating that to HGVC, I have a deed that never "runs out". So I wouldn't think a new ownership could change much for existing owners. Just future owners.

The new landlord can drain the pool to save maintenance, energy, and water costs. They can disable the sprinkler system and let the landscaping die off. They can convert your complex into Section 8, resulting in unsupervised kids running amok and the stunning scenery of beat down cars in the parking spaces. They can convert the clubhouse you love into offices, and the fitness center to a storeroom.

What's in your deed can't be changed, but a new developer can take over your board and increase management fees by agreement between the developer-controlled board and the developer, increasing your maintenance fees.

They can change attributes of your points that aren't specified in your deed, such as stripping down the reservation period for your points unless you pay a conversion fee. They can foreclose on delinquent intervals and convert them to their own major club, shifting availability of each foreclosed interval from your points system to theirs.

I've seen some horror stories about DRI takeovers alluded to, but I can't find very many instances where the complainer listed specific actions that devalued their ownership.

That said, Wyndham has taken over Shell and Worldmark. They have left Worldmark almost intact, and they have made some minor changes in Shell, such as taking away breakfasts, daily cleaning, and newspapers. They have left the major systems themselves independent, though. I don't know Marriott so I can't speak to them.

 

[JSparling]

The new landlord can drain the pool to save maintenance, energy, and water costs. They can disable the sprinkler system and let the landscaping die off.....

Well said. Understood.

Perhaps I'm a fool but I'd think/hope/expect that Hilton wouldn't sell us to the lowest bidder and turn the entire program to sh**. I guess I also need to remember that this isn't fact or even really a rumor yet. Just conversation based on what someone at Marriott said. HGVC has been around for what, 20 years? Why would Hilton ditch it now? From what I understand it's a profitable and successful brand for them.

 

[Ty1on]

If Wyndham were to buy HGVC, it would be for its upper scale reputation. I doubt they would tinker with it too much.

 

[GregT]

The recent activity in other hotel-chain timeshares is instructive. Marriott and Starwood both chose to spin-off their divisions, and Hyatt elected to sell their timeshare chain to a third party (Interval International) and not to a hotel competitor.

I think for this same reason, if HGVC were to get transacted, it would be to another third party (like Interval), or done as a pure spin-off similar to Marriott and Starwood. I can't see Hilton giving its timeshare jewels to Marriott -- who will try to poach the hotel business from the HGVC owner.

I will be curious to see how this ends, but HGVC seems to have developed the best model of any of them. They have had success with multiple asset-light projects, they have the best point system of any of these hotel-chain timeshares, and I believe they are accretive to the financial performance of their parent. If they drag down the financial performance of ParentCo, then they would get sold off or spun out.

Interesting stuff.

Best,

Greg

 

[JIMinNC]

I will be curious to see how this ends, but HGVC seems to have developed the best model of any of them. They have had success with multiple asset-light projects, they have the best point system of any of these hotel-chain timeshares,

In my opinion, Hilton's weakness has always been their resort network - too concentrated in Orlando, Las Vegas, and Oahu. They seem to be working to correct this, but they have a ways to go. Much of their variety comes from affiliates, and in many of those affiliates, everything I've read says HGVC availability can be very limited - particularly in SW Florida.

Their points system certainly does seem simpler and more straight-forward than Marriott (haven't studied Starwood, so can't comment on them), so I would agree that based on that, they may have the "best points system". But when you factor in resort locations, they certainly do not have the variety of Marriott (which is why we chose Marriott as our primary system despite the complexity of their system). So since where you can travel using your points is critical to rating a network, I think that would certainly cause their overall rating to take a hit - at least when compared to Marriott.

Having said that, HGVC may have a place in our future plans as a supplement to Marriott - primarily for access to the Big Island properties and maybe occasional short stays at Waikiki to pair with longer stays on the other islands. The upcoming addition of Marriott's Big Island resort makes this need a little less clear cut, but I've always liked the feel of the HGVC properties on the Waikoloa golf courses and might still prefer that style for a Big Island trip compared to the hotel feel that the Marriott property probably will have.

 

[Helios]

HGVC seems to have developed the best model of any of them. They have had success with multiple asset-light projects, they have the best point system of any of these hotel-chain timeshares, and I believe they are accretive to the financial performance of their parent. If they drag down the financial performance of ParentCo, then they would get sold off or spun out.

100 % Agree

 

[Maverick1963]

It would be unlikely that other timeshare brands should sit in Hilton Hawaiian Village. So I don't think it's a good and realistic option for Hilton to sell off timeshare business. Spinning off the timeshare division, Hilton would need to keep relation with the new company, at least.

By building timeshare towers in HHW, Hilton was able to boost the revenue one time. But on the ongoing basis, timeshare business does not bring good income, I suppose. It seems to me that it was a mistake for Hilton to sell the precious land of Waikiki property in any way. I hope owners will be able to get the same level of benefits and satisfaction whatever Hilton will do to the HGVC entity.

 

[Ty1on]

By building timeshare towers in HHW, Hilton was able to boost the revenue one time. But on the ongoing basis, timeshare business does not bring good income, I suppose. It seems to me that it was a mistake for Hilton to sell the precious land of Waikiki property in any way. I hope owners will be able to get the same level of benefits and satisfaction whatever Hilton will do to the HGVC entity.

IMO, Timeshare "owners" pay multiple times build cost for the resort and pay for its upkeep and operation while paying the management company (That would be Hilton) a management fee in the millions for the reservation system, some phone care, and a little accounting. I think you'd be surprised at how profitable it is.

I once worked for Hilton in the gaming industry. That company has bought and sold and bought so many assets that it would take days to summarize the history of its ownership and deals.

Despite the profitability of timeshare, everything is for sale for the right price.

 

[SmithOp]

The profitability at HHV is having 99% occupancy in the timeshare towers vs 70-80% in the hotel units. Heads in beds spend at the resort.

I stayed there in 2001 right after 9/11 when tourism was down, nobody wanted to fly. Lagoon tower was still busy and the stores were begging people to come in and shop.


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[flexonguy]

Expanding Orlando resorts to four?

Hmmm...

Just at one of the resorts in Orlando and overheard a rumor that they just bought another property I believe Western or Westin just south of Wet n Wild. I believe that they are going to add to the vacation club selection in Orlando. It was stated that it is more economical to remodel existing than build up.

 

[Tamaradarann]

Reservation Point System?

I was told at a Marriott presentation, that Hilton wants to sell off it's timeshare division and that Marriott and Wyndham are the two contenders. Since this was at a Marriott presentation, I don't put much stock in it. He was basically telling me that my HGVC points would be worth more if this happened because it would add nicely to my existing Marriott points. (Yes, his mouth was moving).

Since this was a Marriott Presentation you can't really believe any of it. However, my real concern would be the type of reservation system that would be utilized. The Hilton Reservation Point system allows you to reserve anywhere in the HGVC system at the 9 month window, as well start and end on any day. If that were to change to make the system less flexible it would greatly reduce the value of the system for me. From what I know of the Marriott system it is not nearly as flexible so moving to that type of system would not be a benefit.

 

[JSparling]

What's the difference in "spin off" and "sell off"?

 

[Ty1on]

What's the difference in "spin off" and "sell off"?

"Spin Off" creates an independent entity under the corporate umbrella.

"Sell Off" transfers complete control to another corporation.

 

[JSparling]

"Spin Off" creates an independent entity under the corporate umbrella.

"Sell Off" transfers complete control to another corporation.

"Sell Off" doesn't require much explanation. It's pretty obvious what that is. I don't understand why a company would do a "Spin Off" since they'd still own the company that was "spun". Seems like semantics and a "spin off" wouldn't have much impact on current HGVC owners.

With that being said, it would appear a "Sell Off" would be the scary/unknown option for Hilton.

I've been reading through the HGVC corporate site and reading about all their awards, their "best places to work" accolades, all the new resorts that are opening and under construction, the fact that they intend to add 150 jobs in Vegas in the next year......it all adds up to HGVC being a strong company and presumably profitable. Hopefully that means they won't be sold by Hilton.

 

[JIMinNC]

"Spin Off" creates an independent entity under the corporate umbrella.

"Sell Off" transfers complete control to another corporation.

"Sell Off" doesn't require much explanation. It's pretty obvious what that is. I don't understand why a company would do a "Spin Off" since they'd still own the company that was "spun". Seems like semantics and a "spin off" wouldn't have much impact on current HGVC owners.

With that being said, it would appear a "Sell Off" would be the scary/unknown option for Hilton.

I've been reading through the HGVC corporate site and reading about all their awards, their "best places to work" accolades, all the new resorts that are opening and under construction, the fact that they intend to add 150 jobs in Vegas in the next year......it all adds up to HGVC being a strong company and presumably profitable. Hopefully that means they won't be sold by Hilton.

Actually, in a "Spin Off" the new corporate entity is NOT under the control, of the old corporation. It is generally a brand new, separate corporation in which the shareholders of the old corporation may own a significant portion. An example is Marriott Vacations Worldwide (VAC). It used to be a separate division within Marriott International (MAR), but after the spin-off is a separate company with stock traded separately from the original parent company. It is a totally separate legal entity from MAR.

In a "Sell-Off" the entity is generally purchased by a separate company, rather than being spun off into a brand new company.

 

[TheWizz]

I've heard two rumors lately:

1. "New" HGVC resorts (e.g. Maui) would be "trade-able" via II instead of RCI.
2. Diamond Resorts were in talks to buy the Marriott Timeshare brand/resorts.

Both conversations were with sales folks, which means their lips were moving and we all know what that means.


Time will tell whether or not either rumor becomes fact or fiction...

 

[presley]

I've heard two rumors lately:

1. "New" HGVC resorts (e.g. Maui) would be "trade-able" via II instead of RCI.

Both conversations were with sales folks, which means their lips were moving and we all know what that means.


Time will tell whether or not either rumor becomes fact or fiction...

Interesting that this has been told twice now and I assume by different sales people in different locations.

I wonder how that will work for those who already own HGVC and want to buy Maui. They wouldn't be able to combine their points for RCI or II trades. Perhaps this is a great selling point for Maui. They will take old contracts as a trade in and then those who buy Maui will have the one convenient account with all points being eligible for II. Or, would they push that we all need to own both so we unlock every possible destination?

It seems like it would be a lot of work for them to manage both. As owners, we can book a 2 bedroom King's land through RCI for 4800 points, which is a huge discount from booking directly through Hilton. Imagine buying Maui and not having that option.