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HGVC questions

siwelwerd

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Hi, first timer here (though I have been reading sporadically for a few years). We did a presentation/tour at Kingsland today, which was our first exposure to the HGVC system (we have done a few presentations with the Westin Nanea people before). We found several aspects intriguing, so I have been searching around here for more information but am coming up empty on a few questions.

1. What is the relationship between HGVC and "Hilton Vacation Club"? I see there are a few "vacation club" properties in Tahoe (attractive to us as we live in the Bay Area) but not HGVC. Are HGVC owners able to book these? If so, is there some analogy of the "open season"?
2. The sales manager told us that they have retroactively made all resales "colored titles" (whatever that means--it seemed reminiscent of how Vistana has voluntary/mandatory resorts), and thus resales don't get the same benefits as developer purchases. This seems dubious, if I am feeling charitable. In particular, he said that if we bought resale we would not be eligible for the cash rates during "open season"--is this accurate?
3. How much does the home resort matter? We have, mostly by chance, found ourselves visiting Hawaii once a year for the last five years (Maui previously, and the Big Island this time), so I expect we would want to use any purchase here mostly. Is there generally availability in Hawaii at 9 months, or should we only expect to be able to stay here if we own something here and can book it 12 months out?

Thanks in advance!
 

SmithOp

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HGVC King's Land 2BR Premier 23.040K Points.
1. Hilton Vacation Club HVC are the former Diamond Resorts that Hilton Grand Vacations purchased recently. To use HGVC points there you would need Max, it's included with a developer purchase but not resale. They will also gladly sell you HVC points which need Max to trade back to HGVC property. All Max trades are limited to 6 months or less so the best units may already be taken.

2. This is a common lie they tell that open season will be taken away from resale owners. Think about it, why would they shoot themselves in the foot and turn down cash from resale owners and possibly leave units empty? It also devalues buying from them if you want to sell a crippled product in the future.

3. Hawaii is usually available at 9 months. Savvy resale buyers look for Vegas points to trade into Hawaii. Vegas property maintains low annual rates, so they have good maintenance fee to point ratios.
 
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ocdb8r

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Agree with the above. I will just add that you should study the points charts closely. Over time, HGVC has valued the newer resorts at substantially higher points values when they are developed and brought online. This means if you buy a week at one of the older resorts, it may not equate to sufficient points to trade into some of the newer resorts. As such, a few considerations should you purchase:

1) You could purchase one of the older resorts (with a good MF/point ratio) and limit your trades into those resorts which require a similar number of points. For Hawaii, on the Big Island you'll generally have good options, for Oahu it's a mixed bag but you'll usually be able to trade into something outside the most peak periods, for Maui the only HGVC resort on the island was just opened (and is still finishing construction) and has very high points requirements.

2) You could purchase a couple of weeks at the older resorts and "bank/borrow" points over the years to use them at a combination of the lower point resorts and the higher point resorts (as you are able to combine the points across all the weeks you own with HGVC).

3) You could purchase one (or more) of the newer resorts with a good MF/point ratio and have enough points to trade into both the older and newer resorts. The caveat here is that the good weeks in this regard hold their value quite well and so even on the resale market you're likely looking at a substantially higher purchase price compared to the older resorts (yet still a significant savings over buying direct from HGVC).

All of the above is as regards HGVC only. HVC (the recently purchased Diamond resorts) require you to either a) purchase "direct" at substantial cost to get the "HGV Max" benefits or b) purchase a resale unit at one of the old Diamond (now HVC) resorts which would then give you access to the HVC resorts (but only with those HVC points....not combinable with HGVC points). Generally, neither a or b is attractive from a financial perspective - a direct purchase flushes lots of $$$ down the drain for the mediocre benefit of access to the additional set of resorts at only 6 months ahead of time, while purchasing a Diamond/HVC resale will save you money, the annual fees for those resorts/points is as high or often higher than HGVC weeks (which are generally of a much higher standard).
 

GT75

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I agree with both @SmithOp and @ocdb8r posts above and plan to add to the advice already given. First off, I believe HGVC is a very good system especially for resale owners. Resale owners get almost all of the benefits as a direct purchase owner. Secondly, it sounds like you already understand that you will have the best availability when the club season opens (9-month mark but really to be exact it is 276 days before checkout). Because there are many resorts on Oahu and BI to pick from, there should be availability as long as you are a little flexible. The BI is very easy and Oahu is a little harder at certain times of year and certain resorts/rooms (with the lower required point rooms going first).

Because HGVC is flexible, there are many different options on how owners utilize the systems. You didn't give us any idea on how many days or room size you would like to have while in HI. Generally, we recommend getting at least 11,200 pts (enough for 2BR for a week). I would also recommend looking at resale in LV either Boulevard, Paradise or some units at Elara as a good starter. I personally like platinum season units only. You can also look at this resource for some of the best MF/point ratios in the HGVC system (https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/2024-hilton-grand-vacations-maintenance-fees.356662/post-2975698 or hgvcmfs.com)

Lastly on access to HVC resorts. I would still suggest starting with the above to get access to HGVC first and see if that is meeting your needs for HI. I predict that, like many of us, you will be needing more points. That is very easy by adding additional resale deeds. One deed (technically it is a RTU, so not a deed) is Scotland, Craigendarroch Lodge (it is part of HGVC system). Several of us own there and it was just added to DEX (formerly Diamond) exchange system. This is allowing us access to HVC resorts both cash option and exchange. Craigendarroch Lodges were just allowed access to DEX so it is very new to several of us but it does look very promising. I currently have two exchanges booked for early 2025 for the former Embarc resorts.
 

dayooper

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Lastly on access to HVC resorts. I would still suggest starting with the above to get access to HGVC first and see if that is meeting your needs for HI. I predict that, like many of us, you will be needing more points. That is very easy by adding additional resale deeds. One deed (technically it is a RTU, so not a deed) is Scotland, Craigendarroch Lodge (it is part of HGVC system). Several of us own there and it was just added to DEX (formerly Diamond) exchange system. This is allowing us access to HVC resorts both cash option and exchange. Craigendarroch Lodges were just allowed access to DEX so it is very new to several of us but it does look very promising. I currently have two exchanges booked for early 2025 for the former Embarc resorts.

When we purchase more, we will be purchasing Craig. Now is not the time, but that’s our next purchase. That is unless we can get a super cheap Ocean Oak to pass ROFR (not happening).
 

CalGalTraveler

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Good advice above. If you don't want currency exchange risk of Scotland some of the Florida Gulf affiliates also have access to DEX.

Perhaps the biggest downside of HGVC is the limited locations. We have been members for 10 years and now seeking new properties/areas to explore. I am glad they added DEX to Craigendarroch and Gulf because we will now own for 10 more because we have more to explore.
 

siwelwerd

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Thanks everyone! This is super helpful.
GT75 said:
You didn't give us any idea on how many days or room size you would like to have while in HI. Generally, we recommend getting at least 11,200 pts (enough for 2BR for a week).
Yes, sorry, ideally enough for a 2BR for a week. Running with the 11,200 number in my head until y'all convince me otherwise :).

SmithOp said:
Savvy resale buyers look for Vegas points to trade into Hawaii.
Ohh, interesting. So for example, I see a listing for 11,200 at Kingsland for $8500 with $1878/yr MF. But you are suggesting instead, it would be better off to look at (to grab one particular listing) 11,200 at Elara for $5750 and $978/yr MF? With the only difference being that I have to wait until 276 days out to book, instead of at 12 months, at a considerable cost savings (both up front and annually).

GT75 said:
Because there are many resorts on Oahu and BI to pick from, there should be availability as long as you are a little flexible.
Sticking with that 11,200 example, that would be a week in a 2BR at either Kingsland phase 2, Kohala Suites, or Bay Club--I know there are some differences, but overall I think we'd be happy at any of those. We are bound a bit to school schedule (so I am not even looking at the gold season rates), so President's Day week, a spring break week, or June/July is what we are looking at realistically (I am just assuming Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year is unlikely but please tell me if I am wrong). Does that sound reasonable at Club Season/276 days? I really wish there was a way to see the availability prior to owning.

GT75 said:
I predict that, like many of us, you will be needing more points. That is very easy by adding additional resale deeds.
Is there any difference from a booking perspective if the points come from multiple places? Or are they all just deposited on Jan 1? I think it is just that the MFs will get assessed per deed though, right?
 

letsgobobby

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that sounds reasonable. Oahu and Maui have less availability at 276 days especially Lagoon tower but you will find something somewhere.
 

SmithOp

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Waikoloa is really easy to get at 276 days, Waikiki is a little tougher because there is more contention for those 11,200 units you want. So yes, a 11,200 point Vegas deed will save you money over the long run because those MF every year add up.
 

GT75

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Is there any difference from a booking perspective if the points come from multiple places? Or are they all just deposited on Jan 1? I think it is just that the MFs will get assessed per deed though, right?
No difference (the points are all in the same account with only 1 Club dues) as long as all of the deeds are deeded the same (same name). Yes, you will have different MFs for each deed. I know that some retail owners only want 1 MF bill. I don't understand that logic because then you are locked into buying retail each purchase and trading in and paying $$$. I would just look at the MF/point ratio for all deeds combined.

I have several deeds for different purposes. Some I have for ski weeks which I use for booking HW (Home Weeks) and I also book my HWs at Ocean Oak. The rest of the deeds, I just use the points from (so, good MF/point ratios).
 

T5travels

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HGVC Las Vegas Boulevard
Thanks everyone! This is super helpful.

Yes, sorry, ideally enough for a 2BR for a week. Running with the 11,200 number in my head until y'all convince me otherwise :).


Ohh, interesting. So for example, I see a listing for 11,200 at Kingsland for $8500 with $1878/yr MF. But you are suggesting instead, it would be better off to look at (to grab one particular listing) 11,200 at Elara for $5750 and $978/yr MF? With the only difference being that I have to wait until 276 days out to book, instead of at 12 months, at a considerable cost savings (both up front and annually).


Sticking with that 11,200 example, that would be a week in a 2BR at either Kingsland phase 2, Kohala Suites, or Bay Club--I know there are some differences, but overall I think we'd be happy at any of those. We are bound a bit to school schedule (so I am not even looking at the gold season rates), so President's Day week, a spring break week, or June/July is what we are looking at realistically (I am just assuming Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year is unlikely but please tell me if I am wrong). Does that sound reasonable at Club Season/276 days? I really wish there was a way to see the availability prior to owning.


Is there any difference from a booking perspective if the points come from multiple places? Or are they all just deposited on Jan 1? I think it is just that the MFs will get assessed per deed though, right?

New owner here, just bought 11,200 Annual Platinum season at Las Vegas Boulevard (following the advice of many on here). My points "start" in 2025 but here's something I didn't realize until I started playing around - I can book now for an April 2025 stay and use all the 2025 plus borrow all the 2026 points, giving me up to 22,400 available for booking that stay if I really was out of options.

Availability wise, at this moment there appear to be several 2 BR units at Bay Club, and a single 2BR room type at either Kohala Suites or Kingsland available for booking with 11,200 during the 1st week of April 2025 and even a few weeks before appear to be wide open. Additional 2 BR options (better views, etc) are also available for 13,440 and up.

For a whole week after President's day 2025 there are only a few 2 BR units available between all those locations (for 11,200).

I quickly checked and didn't see a full week available at T-giving or Xmas week.

Again, this is my first go around - maybe others can speak to typical availability 276 days out.

Good luck!
 

GT75

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I didn't realize until I started playing around - I can book now for an April 2025 stay and use all the 2025
You can also book a 2024 stay by borrowing from your 2025 pts. It sounds like your purchase didn't come with 2024 pts.
 

T5travels

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You can also book a 2024 stay by borrowing from your 2025 pts. It sounds like your purchase didn't come with 2024 pts.

Thanks - correct, the previous owner used the 2024 points, and we were ok with that since we already had the year booked out with other trips.

Thought about getting one from a different seller with 2024 available (to have extra to use next year), but probably would have had to pay a bit more and then a fee to push the points for 2025 use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

GT75

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Thought about getting one from a different seller with 2024 available (to have extra to use next yea
Sound like what you are doing is a solid plan. If you start borrowing to many points from the following year, then is a good time to think about adding another deed.
 

4TimeAway

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Its tough decision and one that we are saying saving $600/year on MFs is meaningful. The rules on relative point values can change.

I think we all get stuck trying to optimize in a rigged game that we don’t control the rules.

For example, I’m in CA so when I hear Florida, all I think of is Special Assessments and insurance hell. When I hear Vegas, I think overbuilt. When I hear Scottland, I think currency risk.

Bottomline, is find something you feel comfortable with, buy it, and enjoy it. It is all a waste of money and time.


The main point is taking more and better vacations!
 

SmithOp

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@4TimeAway you left out a couple :)

When I hear CA I think of earthquakes and wild fires.

When I hear Hawaii I think of hurricanes, mold, and termites.

We had a thread here about termites eating the furniture at Lagoon Tower.

@T5travels be a Borrower, no fees and vacation now, pay mf later!
 

melpo

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As someone in Max Ive actively looked for lake Tahoe and it's had 0 availability 6 months out.

I'm also not sure about legacy purchases but I thought open season was only available for HGVMax accounts too
 

GT75

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I'm also not sure about legacy purchases but I thought open season was only available for HGVMax accounts too
Salesperson standard lie. All resale HGVC owners get OS. But, like I previously posted, I have only used OS twice in 15 years. So, I wouldn't purchase just for OS. I see it as a side benefit like RCI and probably others.
 

hyperjewl

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How many points would someone need to be able to book a 2 bedroom for 2 weeks in a row during off peak times at Hilton grand vacation club Tuscany villas for example? I’m also confused to why a 2 bedroom is 11,200, when a 3 bedroom is 8,400 points. Weren’t 2 bedrooms during platinum times only 7,000 a week?

I have a friend looking into resale and wanted Orlando.
 
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GT75

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when a 33 bedroom is 8,400 points. Weren’t 2 bedrooms during platinum times only 7,000 a week?
I think that you meant 3BR, but those were the old point values prior to the adjustment (1.6x) to place HGVC on the same point value as HVC/DRI.

Screenshot 2024-07-13 154736.png
 

hyperjewl

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Yes, I meant 3 bedroom! Also, thank you for your response, it was very helpful! I was unaware of the update. When did they do that? Does that mean if you previously owned 7,000 platinum points at sequels, you’d no longer be able to get a 2 bedroom?

According to this to stay in a 2 bedroom for 2 weeks in off season, they’d need 16,000 points… is that right?

Thank you!
 

GT75

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Does that mean if you previously owned 7,000 platinum points
If you previously owned 7000 pts, then you will now owned 11,200 pts. So you will have enough points to book the same units as previous. This was adjusted about two years ago.
According to this to stay in a 2 bedroom for 2 weeks in off season, they’d need 16,000 points… is that right?
Correct.
 
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