Hepatitis Surge in Young Children / May '21 Now Thought To Be Linked to COVID [MERGED]

[Cornell]

But that's my point about the formatting/editing of the article! Does it "reference that it [the one statement you selected and italicized] came from a person-of-science?" Or did the writer or editor use creative license to give the reader the appearance that it was Will Irving's intended meaning? What is quoted from him is not a direct parallel to the sentence that precedes it.

Sue - I have zero idea. Have a great night.

 

[amycurl]

NM


Sent from my iPad

 

[Pompey Family]

The dingbat brigade: "Unless something works 100% of the time, without any exceptions, we should avoid it and do nothing at all.

I'll leave the personal insults to you but back to my point, there are plenty of people who believe that the vaccine protects them from infection, 100% protection, that's what I'm attempting to highlight! I'm not the one who believes that vaccines have 100% efficacy however I do believe in questioning potential side effects. No-one can be absolutely certain that there are no currently unknown side effects to these vaccines that may become apparent in the future yet on this forum there are people who act as if they are certain and will attempt to shoot down, denigrate and make false accusations against those who raise such questions. There is absolutely nothing wrong in being inquisitive and to simply label those who are as anti-vaxxers is simply lazy and ignorant.

 

[geekette]

I'll leave the personal insults to you but back to my point, there are plenty of people who believe that the vaccine protects them from infection, 100% protection, that's what I'm attempting to highlight! I'm not the one who believes that vaccines have 100% efficacy however I do believe in questioning potential side effects. No-one can be absolutely certain that there are no currently unknown side effects to these vaccines that may become apparent in the future yet on this forum there are people who act as if they are certain and will attempt to shoot down, denigrate and make false accusations against those who raise such questions. There is absolutely nothing wrong in being inquisitive and to simply label those who are as anti-vaxxers is simply lazy and ignorant.

You are right, nobody knows about long term side effects of vax. But we know short term results of infection, ranging from nothing to death. We also know some about long covid, but not how long. Easy choice for me and many other millions. We know side effects of many meds, awful lists on tv ads. I don’t recall long icky lists about this vax, but, long term will take a while to know. Can’t fix that until time passes, no matter what someone believes.

if someone can’t be bothered to find out the simple accessible truth that is known about vax, I have no solution for them. There are still flat earthers, so lots of people believe untrue things. Can’t imagine why Bill Gates would want to chip me or anyone else, but some people think the vax has a chip for his purposes. I’m not a fan of labels for any reason, but I do find some people to be willfully ignorant. My sister fits that, and I have no solution. She thinks people dying from vax is reason enuf to not vax. I said, get back to me when half a million people are dead from the covid vax. She doesnt want it, fine by me, I just wish she based the decision on something more compelling. she has no medical conditions that would make vax dangerous to her, so I guess same is true for her with covid infection. Okie dokie.

 

[bluehende]

I'll leave the personal insults to you but back to my point, there are plenty of people who believe that the vaccine protects them from infection, 100% protection, that's what I'm attempting to highlight! I'm not the one who believes that vaccines have 100% efficacy however I do believe in questioning potential side effects. No-one can be absolutely certain that there are no currently unknown side effects to these vaccines that may become apparent in the future yet on this forum there are people who act as if they are certain and will attempt to shoot down, denigrate and make false accusations against those who raise such questions. There is absolutely nothing wrong in being inquisitive and to simply label those who are as anti-vaxxers is simply lazy and ignorant.

The same thing we heard 18 months ago. What about in a year. Guess what. We are at 2 yrs now with significant vaccines being administered. 22 months since we have had a lot of vaccines administered. We now have billions of shots for over a year. The antivaxxer will keep moving the goal post every time their dire predictions do not come about. There has been no major safety concern with any of the vaccines. A slight increase in blood clots with one (orders of magnitude less than infection) and a small amount of MILD myocarditis with one in one age group (again orders of magnitude less than the infection). These vaccines have been monitored by every major medical agency in the world. None have had any serious concerns other than short term study due to the reasons stated above. No vaccine in history has shown negative effects long term. You keep saying we should study everything. I say we study actual problems...not imagined or politically motivated ones. The vaers tool is a great one for seeing issues. If you actually look into it instead of looking for misinformation to post you will see a great group of scientists look at it weekly to identify any potential problems. Those scientists are the ones that let us know that if your a middle aged woman you may want to get the MRNA vaccines and if you are a young male you may want to get the J&J.

 

[SueDonJ]

At this point after being vaccinated and contracting the virus, and under a couple doctors' care for lingering, concerning issues, I'm much less worried about what we know than about what we don't. The recent reports about the possible correlation of Hepatitis in kids who are not vaccine-eligible are scary, not so much because I believe the correlation is definitive (I don't believe that's settled truth) but because it makes me wonder if it is and it makes me wonder what else that affects our most vulnerable populations is yet to be found. For those reasons, because I don't know what else is in store for me with Long COVID and because I have four grandchildren who are vulnerable, I'll continue masking when others may not. I'll also continue limiting my social interaction at least as far as large groups like concerts or movie theaters, after learning the hard way that some will continue making the conscious choice to risk infecting others haphazardly.

Everything will be fine and dandy as long as I don't have to be subject to ANYONE telling me that there is absolutely no reason for any precautions anymore - because I still have enough anger in me to lash out at anyone who tries out that nonsense on me. If someone does this will be my response: "It makes no sense to me that people can hear the experts (yes, I said it, EXPERTS, people who have dedicated their long and storied professional lives to pandemic sciences) say that masks are still recommended in certain situations, and then hear politicians/judges say that the mandates are over, and they choose to act on what the politicians/judges say. Where is the sense in that?! Do me a favor, please, and move your ignorant self back six feet from me."

And then I'll <cough cough> on them.

 

[Pompey Family]

There has been no major safety concern with any of the vaccines.

Remember when we were told Thalidomide was safe? Remember when we were told Asbestos was safe? Remember when it was OK to put lead in paint?

There's nothing wrong with questioning science and as someone who has been directly affected by lies from Pfizer I know only too well the benefits of retaining a healthy level of open mindedness.

 

[emeryjre]

I hear the Florida judge got two free passes for golf at Mar Lago. Good for mid afternoon in late July. Carts not included.

 

[geekette]

Remember when we were told Thalidomide was safe? Remember when we were told Asbestos was safe? Remember when it was OK to put lead in paint?

There's nothing wrong with questioning science and as someone who has been directly affected by lies from Pfizer I know only too well the benefits of retaining a healthy level of open mindedness.

I don’t remember any of that. Got anything from this century?

question whatever you want, but any time the phrase “we were told” comes up, it’s not coming from science. It’s coming from People. I don’t know what “lies from Pfizer” you are referring to, but don’t blame science. We wouldn’t know anything about covid , except that people keep dying , without science. Would you prefer to not know the cause of widespread illness and death? Would you prefer there be no scientists working on a vax? Would you prefer no studies to figure things out? All lies? Science proved it wasn’t a Dem hoax to steal an election (which never made sense, given the issue was worldwide).

question whatever you want. You may have made a great researcher, designing tests to run your hunches or explore coincidence vs cause. Still, science doesnt care if you trust it. Facts will be facts, theories will be theories. Not everyone can keep those two things straight, but you can, and do. Openmindedness is not a bad trait, though I wish it were contagious.

 

[Pompey Family]

I don’t remember any of that. Got anything from this century?

The PIP Silicone Implant Scandal, the H1N1 'pandemic', the ME/CFS trial in the UK and there are plenty more.

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not saying "don't trust science" but rather, remain openminded and don't be afraid to question anything.

 

[geekette]

The PIP Silicone Implant Scandal, the H1N1 'pandemic', the ME/CFS trial in the UK and there are plenty more.

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not saying "don't trust science" but rather, remain openminded and don't be afraid to question anything.

H1N1 got headed off at the pass. We mighta been able to do that.

agree, skepticism is valuable in most every endeavor in life. Just cuz someone says it, just cuz it’s in the newspapers, just cuz someone a person generally trusts posts it …. weigh it vs accept it.

the silicone implant thing …. I think there are multiple issues involved there, including the tendency for doctors to not believe women when they say something is wrong. It’s a very old story, and also happened to me (not implants, I would like to get thru life with all my regular parts but may end up with artificial hip; mine was outrageous post op pain and I was dismissed by doctor after doctor, who clearly didnt understand my very high tolerance for pain). Gulf War Syndrome was another example of docs dismissing complaints for far too long.

for me, just cuz a doctor says it doesnt make it true and I am quite good at ditching unhelpful doctors. how many dolt doctors have we found out about during pandemic? Yikes level.

So, sure, find info, analyze it, find more info until you form decisions for yourself. Wish there were overall less sheep, but, “think for yourself”, “don’t believe everything you read”, “consult multiple sources”, etc., just don’t seem to be part of growing up nor adulting any more. “I saw on Facebook…” is scarily more prevalent. I was lucky, Dad never gave me the answer to anything, I had to go figure it out. Studies and surveys remain the items that I am most skeptical of, because the details make all the difference, and different analysts can come to different conclusions. One can make conclusions from a poorly designed study or survey, but too many people will just absorb the bottom line and not peek under the covers.

I can only hope that parents of young children teach them to think, not just go find some plausible answer and go with it because it’s easy. Anyone can click google crap, but just cuz it’s on the internet…

 

[geekette]

Forgot…. Please remind me what “Pfizer’s lies” were? I’m curious as to whether they were lies, willful deceit, or, best they could conclude at the time. things happened fast, still much we don’t know.

 

[bluehende]

Remember when we were told Thalidomide was safe? Remember when we were told Asbestos was safe? Remember when it was OK to put lead in paint?

There's nothing wrong with questioning science and as someone who has been directly affected by lies from Pfizer I know only too well the benefits of retaining a healthy level of open mindedness.

Ah the Pfizer conspiracy theories

 

[Pompey Family]

Forgot…. Please remind me what “Pfizer’s lies” were? I’m curious as to whether they were lies, willful deceit, or, best they could conclude at the time. things happened fast, still much we don’t know.

I was prescribed medication produced by Pfizer which had to be authorised by a senior consultant as it is not on the list of approved medications for my local health authority. I came off it voluntarily due to horrendous side effects and decided to research it in more detail. It transpires that an investigation by a German health authority revealed that Pfizer suppressed adverse trial results in order to achieve approval of the drug. The drug has not been approved by the FDA but it has been approved by some UK health authorities for some reason, I can only presume approval was given prior to the German investigation. It would appear that Pfizer has form for suppressing information they don't like.

Ah the Pfizer conspiracy theories

Yes, yes, I've made it up and so has a German health authority. It's all one big conspiracy. *eyes roll*

 

[geekette]

I was prescribed medication produced by Pfizer which had to be authorised by a senior consultant as it is not on the list of approved medications for my local health authority. I came off it voluntarily due to horrendous side effects and decided to research it in more detail. It transpires that an investigation by a German health authority revealed that Pfizer suppressed adverse trial results in order to achieve approval of the drug. The drug has not been approved by the FDA but it has been approved by some UK health authorities for some reason, I can only presume approval was given prior to the German investigation. It would appear that Pfizer has form for suppressing information they don't like.



Yes, yes, I've made it up and so has a German health authority. It's all one big conspiracy. *eyes roll*

Ok, I also have a problem with hiding data that doesn’t conform to desired outcome. That is big time sleazy. I’d call it cheating vs lying but semantics wouldn’t matter for folks like you e perincing actual harm. I would hope that the culprit(s) were not only terminated but unable to be employed in the industry.

Back in the 90s I worked on a pharma case (not Pfizer). The FDA and NDA filings are voluminous. Drug Experience Reports are also interesting reading, from which most likely side effects can be identified. Plenty of items on those reports don’t make it to listed effects because they were not widespread enough to be statistically relevant. regardless, getting FDA approval is not easy. It’s time consuming and costly. all trial data should be submitted. Some trials are flawed, sometimes subjects dont follow instructions etc. if Pfizer has a habit of hiding data, that would be the end of them. Is there a pattern or was it one drug one time, maybe one rogue employee? are you sure the adverse trial wasn’t withheld due to a pnormal roble with the study vs outcome? I get that you can’t know everything but having been caretaker of data for decades, this is the kind of thing I could never be ok with. I walked off a job when the ceo wanted me to manufacture data. No one of integrity would do that. I never looked back so I don’t know if my replacement did it. where I come from, IT ends up being a community of people that know each other, and we black ball those that should be blackballed.

 

[Brett]

The PIP Silicone Implant Scandal, the H1N1 'pandemic', the ME/CFS trial in the UK and there are plenty more.

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not saying "don't trust science" but rather, remain openminded and don't be afraid to question anything.

OK. I will remain open minded and trust the science for silicone implants (and other things)

 

[bluehende]

Remember when we were told Thalidomide was safe? Remember when we were told Asbestos was safe? Remember when it was OK to put lead in paint?

There's nothing wrong with questioning science and as someone who has been directly affected by lies from Pfizer I know only too well the benefits of retaining a healthy level of open mindedness.

None of these are vaccines. So I guess you use nothing associated with modern life because things can change. Or are you again putting up a strawman that has nothing to do with this discussion. Maybe we should act like thinking humans and rely on experts to approve good products with the best science available and then monitor said products to look for any EVIDENCE of a problem. Instead of denigrating everything because things change why not praise the individuals that keep the data that allows us to correct the very rare mistake.

PS Thalidomide was never approved in the US.

 

[Pompey Family]

Bluehende, you've missed the entire point......again.

 

[Pompey Family]

PS Thalidomide was never approved in the US.

Ah yes because the US is the centre of the World and anything that happens outside of it is of no concern, that's your viewpoint isn't it?

 

[bluehende]

Bluehende, you've missed the entire point......again.

Your point is ridiculous. Because a product was found to be a problem 50 yrs ago a completely unrelated product can not be trusted today. But it is only the product the politically motivated antivaxxers do not like.

 

[bluehende]

Ah yes because the US is the centre of the World and anything that happens outside of it is of no concern, that's your viewpoint isn't it?

Or if you actually research your reference instead of relying on your echo chamber you will see the product was known to have problems, by the centre of the world and all surrounding areas. Some regulatory agencies decided the benefit outweighed the risk and approved it and others did not. This is what a regulatory agency does. You do understand that the risk of a treatment that will be given to individuals with cancers is different than a vaccine given to billions. Wouldn't it be nice if people understood the difference between a vaccine that is a single or few doses that all add up to much less than 1 milligram has different risk aspects than a product that is taken continuously in doses thousands and maybe millions of times higher. Or better yet a product that you have contact with or breath in for decades.

 

[Pompey Family]

Your point is ridiculous. Because a product was found to be a problem 50 yrs ago a completely unrelated product can not be trusted today. But it is only the product the politically motivated antivaxxers do not like.

Yep, you're still demonstrating that you're missing the point. Perhaps if you let go of this rabid obsession with labelling everyone you disagree with as anti vaxx nutjobs you might begin to comprehend a few things. Sadly, I doubt you will and sadly you'll continue to miss the point.

 

[bluehende]

Yep, you're still demonstrating that you're missing the point. Perhaps if you let go of this rabid obsession with labelling everyone you disagree with as anti vaxx nutjobs you might begin to comprehend a few things. Sadly, I doubt you will and sadly you'll continue to miss the point.

Yet you refuse to give a shred of evidence for your outlandish theory, but you want everyone to spend a fortune to research it instead of real problems.

 

[Pompey Family]

Yet you refuse to give a shred of evidence for your outlandish theory, but you want everyone to spend a fortune to research it instead of real problems.

I'm not requesting anyone spend any money on a theory (it's not mine) nor do I expect everyone to subscribe to every thought that I have (unlike some).

There's a popular concept called discussion, it's something grown ups like to engage in and typically they don't throw churlish insults or denigrate one another.

Are you suggesting that significant cases of hepatitis in young children with no known cause is not a real problem?

 

[bluehende]

I'm not requesting anyone spend any money on a theory (it's not mine) nor do I expect everyone to subscribe to every thought that I have (unlike some).

There's a popular concept called discussion, it's something grown ups like to engage in and typically they don't throw churlish insults or denigrate one another.

Are you suggesting that significant cases of hepatitis in young children with no known cause is not a real problem?

I will answer your question.....yes.

Now for about the fifth time answer mine. Why would you want to give wind to a theory that vaccinated adults are spreading virus to children causing this problem with ZERO evidence. This is antivax nonsense that takes into account all the antivax nonsense.