Help with Pic Plus 101

[bryjake]

I am considering applying 2 pic plus contracts to my account
I am trying to better understand the details
I am targeting RCI Gold 2 Bedroom high season and RCI Gold 3 bedroom offseason
An added bonus is that these properties trade in both RCI and II

What I sort of understand is that this will be 2 pic’s and require a minimum tele sales purchase of about 40k points per pic about 90kish points in total
I am ok with that because of the $/point price break between 40kish and 90kish
Where I get confused are the other details and how the process works

To the best of my understanding these pics would need to be verified by CW
Once verified I should get points that count towards VIP status (154k for 2 bedroom and 254k for 3 bedroom)

I also am under the impression that these pic’s serve a couple of functions:
I have an option to enroll or not enroll these pics in RCI

Need advice if I do not enroll these PIC’s, they offer sort of “VIP place holder value” and I do not get the CW points for account use (I am ok considering that option)

Need advice when these PIC’s are enrolled in RCI, I 154k for the 2 bedroom and 254k for the 3 bedroom for my CW vacation use (These points should have VIP benefits)
Are the 154k for 2 bedroom and 254k for 3 bedroom fixed / firm amount regardless of season?

What "bucket" are these points
CWA like or only for use booking at 10 month window?
Can they be rolled over for additional years?
Can they be enrolled into RCI or converted into CW reward point?

I tend to take a “Trust and verify” approach with CW

To be honest, I am of the belief that CW can have some trust issues

I do greatly trust and value Tug members perspectives to calibrate my understanding of how CW works

Thanks in advance

 

[bryjake]

Additional research:
http://wyndhamexperts.org/index.php/2019/07/27/wyndham-pic-program/

https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/wyndham_personal_interval_choice_PIC_program.html

Now I am a bit more confused
To get PIC points, need to deposit week 9 months prior to actual deposited week

Question:
What happens if I deposit at less than 9 months?

 

[troy12n]

I don't have a PIC but did a lot of research on it because I was considering it.
A PIC accomplished two things, completely independent of each other:

1. A gives you "points" towards the VIP program
2. Gives you usable points to use for vacations

These 2 things are completely separate. Once you make your retain purchase (i'm not sure how many points, I think it's 49,000 actually per PIC, max of 2) and register the PIC, your Wyndham membership is increased for purposes of VIP points, by that amount...

HOWEVER... you have to deposit your RCI week (it has to be a fixed week, depositable in RCI, it cannot be an RCI points timeshare) at the 9 months mark or more (not sooner) to make these points actually USABLE for wyndham timeshare points reservations. You also have to pay the program fee on those points when you make the deposit.

So in theory, if you make the 98,000 points retail purchase from wyndham, and register 2x 3BR week timeshares, that will give you a total of 606,000 (98,000+508,000) points for VIP purposes, which would make you a Silver VIP, but of those 606k, you would only have 98,000 usable to make reservations with until you deposit your weeks into RCI and pay the program fee with Wyndham. After that completes, you would indeed haver 606k available to make reservations.

The mechanics of how all that works, i'm not one to answer, i'm sure someone else can.

You asked the question "what if I deposit the weeks after the 9 month mark... I think the answer is, "you lost them". Wyndham won't convert them to points at the sooner than 9 month mark is my understanding. As you can guess, 98,000 points will not get you very far in terms of making reservations in Wyndham, so to make all this work to your advantage, you really need to deposit those weeks.

 

[bryjake]

Thank you
Your reply was very helpful

My key learnings are
There are many details with PIC's
The 2 things it does, points towards VIP and points for vacation usage, are independent of each other

I am learning that PIC weeks I am after are for week 22, early June and week 44, early Nov
Both of those will not qualify for the 9 month deposit - suspect no 2023 points there
I wonder if CW offers first time enrollment forgiveness or if it is set in stone
I suspect the answer is no points but asking is free

The other detail I am wondering about is what are the PIC point values received when deposited greater than 9 months
Are they fixed to 154k per 2 bedroom and 254k per 3 bedroom or are they points listed in RCI?

I hate that I do not have access to RCI deposit calculator
I tried calling both CW and RCI
Neither was that helpful

They did manage to get me in touch with a sales person though

 

[HitchHiker71]

Additional research:
http://wyndhamexperts.org/index.php/2019/07/27/wyndham-pic-program/

https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/wyndham_personal_interval_choice_PIC_program.html

Now I am a bit more confused
To get PIC points, need to deposit week 9 months prior to actual deposited week

Question:
What happens if I deposit at less than 9 months?

You can deposit into RCI less than nine months out - based upon whatever the RCI requirements are - as this step is really separate from anything related to the Wyndham PIC points conversion itself - other than being a prereq for doing so. Once you receive the RCI deposit confirmation from depositing your week into the RCI system - you would then contact Wyndham and convert that deposited week into points for a per PIC conversion fee of $89 (last I checked) - at this point if it's less than nine months out - it is unlikely that Wyndham will allow you to convert to points - as Wyndham needs time to rent that deposited RCI unit to help recoup revenue from the points deposit. I typically do so around 10 months out just to be on the safe side. I have heard of owners receiving special exceptions when depositing at less than nine months out - but this always a special request - and typically Wyndham will only allow for these special exceptions if the RCI week is at a high demand resort during high season that is comparatively easy for Wyndham to rent out for good money - otherwise it is denied.

I have owned two 3+ bedroom PICs since becoming an owner with Wyndham in 2018. I have converted my PICs into Wyndham points almost every year since that time. Occasionally we will not convert our three bedroom oceanfront week 42 OBBC unit and we'll actually use our week. We have converted our Colonies at Williamsburg four bedroom unit into Wyndham points every year since enrollment in 2018 - as we actually prefer staying at GG in Williamsburg when we vacation in that area.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Suspect no 2023 points there
I wonder if CW offers first time enrollment forgiveness or if it is set in stone
I suspect the answer is no points but asking is free

The other detail I am wondering about is what are the PIC point values received when deposited greater than 9 months
Are they fixed to 154k per 2 bedroom and 254k per 3 bedroom or are they points listed in RCI?

I hate that I do not have access to RCI deposit calculator
I tried calling both CW and RCI
Neither was that helpful

They did manage to get me in touch with a sales person though

Regarding PIC Plus deposits less than nine months out - As you said - you can ask for special dispensation - but unless the weeks in question are in a high demand resort during high season and very easy to rent - the answer will likely be no. It may even be no regardless. The PIC Plus Wyndham conversion points values are set in stone based on unit size (1, 2, or 3 bedrooms) and have no relation to the RCI points or the Trading Power Units (TPUs) that RCI assigns within their system.

 

[tschwa2]

If you deposit them less than 9 months from check in you would have them as rci deposits to use within rci. If you don't deposit them at all you would have homeweek reservations at whatever the resort is to use for yourself.

 

[Sandy VDH]

A PIC accomplished two things, completely independent of each other:

1. A gives you "points" towards the VIP program
2. Gives you usable points to use for vacations

I can't agree more that these are separate. I use my PICs for accomplishing 1. above. I used them to obtain VIPP status.

However I never deposit them into Wyndham for points. For a couple of reason, I have have enough Wyndham points and I use the underlying PIC weeks as they are. Sure I pay the program fee on those points, but I get VIPP Discounts and upgrade on about 80% of my bookings, more than worth the program fees.

 

[troy12n]

I pay the program fee on those points, but I get VIPP Discounts and upgrade on about 80% of my bookings, more than worth the program fees.

At various times since i've been an owner, I have been VIPS, VIPG and VIPP, and I really have to say that the year or two I was VIPP and getting 50% discounts inside the discount window (vs the 25% I have as VIPS), plus suite upgrades at 60 days vs 45 or 30 I have now, was VERY nice. I miss that, I really do. And was considering PIC'ing up to VIPP until I just decided against it and bought more resale points.

I think unless someone has an extremely small, minimum retail ownership, they really wouldn't get much out of the PIC program unless they deposited their points into Wyndham. I just cannot fathom what a ~100,000 point ownership with VIPS would get you... especially without unlimited HK.

But it probably also matters a LOT what your weeks you are PIC'ing are, if you have a really nice timeshare somewhere you want to use year over year, I can definitely see wanting to use it.

Versus what seems to be a common route of just getting a week at Massanutten or somewhere that isn't especially noteworthy.

Once my kids are finally out of the house, reasonably stable, and have kids or not, maybe we can revisit that point, but for now, I can't see another retail purchase on the horizon.

One of my kids is one of those "burn the world down" types who, up to this point has made some very bad "partner" decisions, and doesn't want kids. And that's fine if that's what he wants. But he's also 21 and doesn't really understand the world, how stuff works, and what it's like to be truly and completely responsible for one's self.

 

[Jan M.]

Last May through telesales I paid $14,375 after a $1k rebate for 100k CWA points with 100k bonus points. At that time I enrolled two PIC Plus weeks. You get two years to use the bonus points. I used all of them within a month. Lol

I like low maintenance fees, which CWA points don't have. However it's a good idea to have some CWA points in case you want to be able to book the CWA inventory before 10 months. Also 100k CWA points isn't a lot.

Telesales offers discounts and rebates that change every few months. There was a better deal on 105k points when I first looked into things but I didn't have our PIC Plus weeks at that time. For one PIC week you must purchase 49k points and for two, 98k points. Usually the discounts and rebates start at 100k points making it cheaper to buy a few more points.

*You MUST have the PIC Plus weeks in your name at the time of your Wyndham purchase. Wyndham will have to verify that you own them and if they can't do that you can't go back and fix it without making another purchase.

The best weeks to get are the 3 or 4 bedroom weeks that get you 254k points. Don't waste your time and money on anything smaller. It's recommended that you get something that's rated a Gold Crown resort with RCI. It doesn't matter what season the weeks are; any 3 or 4 bedroom week will get you 254k Wyndham points. Those PIC Plus points count towards a VIP level even if you don't deposit your weeks every year to get the Wyndham points for them.

Once you've purchased your weeks for the PIC Plus and made your Wynham purchase you'll need to get your weeks deposited. Since it has to be done 11-12? months in advance it's too late to do it for 2023. However you should get that set up for 2024. To do that the resort will require you to pre-pay the 2024 maintenance fees before they proceed. Once they've deposited your weeks with RCI and you get the notification email you will contact Wyndham. They'll collect an $89 fee for each week and do their thing. They asked me which use year i wanted them to put the points in. You should see the points in your Wyndham account within a few days.

For the 2023 weeks not eligible to get the Wyndham points you have two options.
1. Use the weeks.
2. Deposit them and get TPUs (Trading Power Units) to use in RCI. They are good for 2 years. Yes you will pay an exchange fee but you might/should be able to get more than one week for each. RCI periodically has discounted TPU stays.

For our first year weeks we used one because it was coming up quick and deposited the other week as there was more time to plan for that one.

Hope this helps. If you have questions you're welcome to start a private conversation with me. I'll give you my number and you can call me

 

[bryjake]

Tug is the best!
I am getting the larger picture
I greatly appreciate everyone's perspectives

I am still confused with depositing into RCI aspect

Right now, I have CW points and access to RCI points portal through my CW membership
I do not have access within RCI to deposit any weeks
What is that process like?

If I am depositing weeks less than 9 months, do they get deposited into a RCI weeks portal or my RCI CW points portal?

Do I get a different interface once my PIC process is implemented?

I do suspect things should open up once I complete my PIC purchase and upgrade

 

[paxsarah]

If I am depositing weeks less than 9 months, do they get deposited into a RCI weeks portal or my RCI CW points portal?

Do I get a different interface once my PIC process is implemented?

The PIC properties get deposited into a weeks interface, not the Wyndham points portal. It’s the same account, but a separate login. You might be able to set up your login to the weeks side now, completely independently from having PICs. I was able to when I first purchased resale (12 years ago), but the websites have both gone through multiple changes since then and I have no idea of the process. At the time, I was sent an RCI membership card and used the member number to create my direct login. I don’t have access to any exchanges on that side, only cash vacations (and IIRC, there was a short time when I first purchased that the Wyndham portal didn’t provide access to cash vacations, so I had to use the weeks side if I wanted LC or EV).

 

[HitchHiker71]

Tug is the best!
I am getting the larger picture
I greatly appreciate everyone's perspectives

I am still confused with depositing into RCI aspect

Right now, I have CW points and access to RCI points portal through my CW membership
I do not have access within RCI to deposit any weeks
What is that process like?

If I am depositing weeks less than 9 months, do they get deposited into a RCI weeks portal or my RCI CW points portal?

Do I get a different interface once my PIC process is implemented?

I do suspect things should open up once I complete my PIC purchase and upgrade

I've never used the RCI website to perform my RCI weeks deposits - I just call into the Wyndham RCI line and deposit them over the phone - I have all of the required supporting info in a text file that I keep for this purpose. If you want to be able to do this online - it depends on your ownership type within Wyndham what type of RCI account they create on your behalf I believe. Developer owners who are entitled to RCI nightly stays and a couple of other added RCI benefits - have an RCI points account associated with their Wyndham membership by default, whereas resale only owners have an RCI weeks account associated with their membership I believe. Someone can correct me here if I'm wrong on this info.

My Wyndham RCI account is a points account since I started out as a developer owner, and therefore doesn't list my weeks. I've asked RCI in the past if I could associate my weeks to my existing account and I was told this isn't possible since my Wyndham RCI account is a points account. I believe I created another RCI weeks based login some years back - but have never gone down the path of trying to get my RCI weeks associated with my separate RCI weeks based login account - but I do believe this is possible - I just haven't gotten around to it since calling into the Wyndham RCI number once a year to perform my weeks deposits is easy. Perhaps another TUGGER who has recently gone through this setup process can post here in this thread as to the specific steps to take.

 

[Silverdollar]

Tug is the best!
I am getting the larger picture
I greatly appreciate everyone's perspectives

I am still confused with depositing into RCI aspect

Right now, I have CW points and access to RCI points portal through my CW membership
I do not have access within RCI to deposit any weeks
What is that process like?

If I am depositing weeks less than 9 months, do they get deposited into a RCI weeks portal or my RCI CW points portal?

Do I get a different interface once my PIC process is implemented?

I do suspect things should open up once I complete my PIC purchase and upgrade

I am a VIPP member and Wyndham (formerly Fairfield) owner for 40 years. I have participated in the PIC program for 18 years. Here are the steps I would suggest:

• Locate two timeshares that are NON-Wyndham resorts, and are NOT a part of any points program. Since you can only have two timeshares (TSs), you will get the “best bang for your buck” by selecting two 3-bedroom TSs because they are worth 254,000 points each (508,000 total) that can be used to book reservations with Wyndham. (See Jan’s post above)
• BEFORE ACQUIRING THE TWO TIMESHARES, call Wyn Telesales and make sure the two TSs qualify for the PIC Plus program. Ask them how many Wyn developer points you would need to purchase in order to bring the two TSs into the PIC Plus Program, and how much to purchase the developer points.
• If the two TSs qualify for PIC, go and purchase the timeshares and get the deeds transferred in your name (and spouse) before calling to purchase the Wyn developer points. After the transfer-process is complete, call Telesales, register the TSs with them, and make the developer purchase. Your PIC points, combined with developer points, can go toward VIP status.
• Since you cannot use the PIC points in 2023, due to the “greater than 9 months” requirement, you can go ahead and deposit the TS with RCI for next year (2024). You do not have to deposit both TSs at the same time. They just have to be deposited greater than 9 months from check-in. Call the Club Wyn/RCI servicing line to start the deposit process (800-572-0931). They will ask about your TS (resort name, #bedrooms, assigned week, etc.). Then, within a few days, they will contact your resort to make sure you have paid your maintenance fee (and any special assessments) for 2024. If the resort has not set the cost of MF for 2024 yet, pay the 2023 amount.
• After they see that you have paid your MF, they will send you an email approving your deposit. Then, call Wyn to let them know you deposited your timeshare with RCI and would like to “PIC” it. They will ask you to pay an $89 conversion fee with your CC. Then, those points will appear in your Wyn account within a few days and you can start to book reservations.

It's a little complicated the first time, but gets easier. Feel free to start private conversation.

 

[bryjake]

This process can be intimidating, thanks everyone for the input and coaching

Yet another reason that TUG is the best

I believe I am in good shape
I have secured the week PIC's

My next and final step is to the tele-sales dance one last time, then VIP founders

I am certain others have comparable questions about the CW PIC process, I hope this discussion can enlighten others as well

 

[troy12n]

My next and final step is to the tele-sales dance one last time, then VIP founders

I got the impression you weren't a current owner, so going from 0 to founders is going to require at minimum ~892,000 retail purchase. That's a huge purchase that I don't see how anyone could justify.

You can only do 2 PIC's, for a max of 508,000 points and founders is 1.4 mil points. You can only buy CWA from telesales, I would not want to be paying MF on almost 900,000 Access points

 

[HitchHiker71]

I got the impression you weren't a current owner, so going from 0 to founders is going to require at minimum ~892,000 retail purchase. That's a huge purchase that I don't see how anyone could justify.

You can only do 2 PIC's, for a max of 508,000 points and founders is 1.4 mil points. You can only buy CWA from telesales, I would not want to be paying MF on almost 900,000 Access points

Telesales can now sell certain CWS contracts in addition to CWA - this changed during the pandemic for obvious reasons - and AFAIK still remains.

From the OPs originating post:

I am considering applying 2 pic plus contracts to my account

 

[Cyrus24]

I have a document that I follow each year for each of my 2 PIC's. Here is one of them. The process is not hard, but, when you only do it once (or twice) a year, it helps to have it all written down. I generally always PIC this unit and seldom PIC the other unit since I actually use it.
==========================

PIC Process. RCI Weeks to Wyndham Points, Outer Bank Beach Club I
Pay, Reserve, Deposit, Convert​

Outer Banks Beach Club I 3BR, Resort #4224, Every Year, Week 99, Unit 9PH, Owner Number 999999.

• Pay. Early in the Year, contact OBBC (252-441-6321) about paying the future year Dues. They will give you a price that is equal to the current year dues plus 3%. Pay that amount. Credit Card Payment should work, there may be an upcharge.
• Reserve. When on the call, reserve the unit. They will do it while you are on the phone. You will not get any other confirmation.
• Deposit. Contact RCI (800)338-7777, ask that they deposit the week into your RCI Weeks Account, 99999999. No charges. From there, they will contact the resort. Soon after making the call, 1 to 3 business days, you will get an email saying that the week has been deposited. You can go into to the RCI Weeks account and see the deposited week by clicking on Vacation Search & Deposits/Manage Deposits/Weeks You’ve Already Deposited. You will see all the details on the deposit when you scroll down. It will show as ‘available to exchange’. Note the Resort, Unit Number, Unit Size, and Vacation Start Date as you will need that in the next Step.
• Convert. Contact Wyndham. Ask that they convert the deposited week. They will look in your RCI account and see it there. They will want to know your Wyndham Account Number 00999999999 and they may want to know the RCI Weeks Account 99999999. They will look in your RCI Weeks Account and see it there. Be sure that they are looking at the correct PIC Contract Number, 999999999999, and that the points to be posted are for 254,000. They will ask if you want the points in the current year or the future year. Put them in the future year as you most likely would not have a plan for them in the current year. Pay the conversion fee ($89). In a few days, you will get an email saying that the conversion is complete. You can then go into the Wyndham account and look at the Ownership/Points/Year with Deposit and see the extra points in the account. You can look at the details of the deposit by looking under Ownership/Points/Year at the history.

 

[bryjake]

Bonus Questions:
I have RCI weeks account expiring in the near future. I also will be depositing my 2 pic weeks soon.

Can I use my RCI weeks account that comes with Club Wyndham membership to deposit my PIC weeks?

Or

Do I need a separate RCI weeks account to deposit PIC weeks (That implies I need RCI weeks account out of my own pocket)

This stuff can be confusing

 

[HitchHiker71]

Bonus Questions:
I have RCI weeks account expiring in the near future. I also will be depositing my 2 pic weeks soon.

Can I use my RCI weeks account that comes with Club Wyndham membership to deposit my PIC weeks?

Or

Do I need a separate RCI weeks account to deposit PIC weeks (That implies I need RCI weeks account out of my own pocket)

This stuff can be confusing

I use my Wyndham RCI account to make my PIC deposits - I don't actually have a separate RCI account outside of my Wyndham account.

 

[tschwa2]

Bonus Questions:
I have RCI weeks account expiring in the near future. I also will be depositing my 2 pic weeks soon.

Can I use my RCI weeks account that comes with Club Wyndham membership to deposit my PIC weeks?

Or

Do I need a separate RCI weeks account to deposit PIC weeks (That implies I need RCI weeks account out of my own pocket)

This stuff can be confusing

Wyndham should be able to set up a rci weeks account associated with your wyndham account. It is included as part of your program fee so you would not pay additional for that.

 

[Richelle]

Bonus Questions:
I have RCI weeks account expiring in the near future. I also will be depositing my 2 pic weeks soon.

Can I use my RCI weeks account that comes with Club Wyndham membership to deposit my PIC weeks?

Or

Do I need a separate RCI weeks account to deposit PIC weeks (That implies I need RCI weeks account out of my own pocket)

This stuff can be confusing

I would recommend NOT using the account that is going to expire. Stick with the RCI account that is tied to your Wyndham account. Deposit your PIC into that.

My mom has her own RCI account she opened in 1999. When my husband and I purchased in 2008, we enrolled her VV at Parkway so she would have another vacation option for that week. For years, she would deposit into her RCI account and then do the PIC exchange on years she wanted to use them with Wyndham. There were no issues with that. Then a few years ago, the PIC exchange started getting rejected. At some point they stopped allowing you to exchange a TPU from an RCI account that was not tied to the Wyndham account. That was not something that was announced but RCI was kind enough to reverse the deposit and then deposit it into the Wyndham RCI account. It’s possible that the people rejecting it didn’t know what they were doing but we have since changed the VV Parkway to be associated with the Wyndham account so it can be deposited into there. My other PIC is already associated with it and I’ve never had an issue with that one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dwitter]

Does anyone know what the parameters are that CW will accept for timeshare units they will take into the pic program? I am interested in purchasing a three bedroom that I can deposit into the pic program.

 

[Richelle]

Does anyone know what the parameters are that CW will accept for timeshare units they will take into the pic program? I am interested in purchasing a three bedroom that I can deposit into the pic program.

The PIC program consists of two programs. PIC Express and PIC Plus. To be eligible for PIC Plus, it has to be affiliated with RCI. You have to be able to deposit it into RCI, because you exchange trading power from your deposit for points. It cannot be a points based system (that includes RCI points) because you cannot deposit for trading power. It cannot be a Wyndham resort. Vacation village resorts qualify. VV at Williamsburg is $915 a year for a four bedroom. @HitchHiker71 shared what he owns and how much the maintenance fees are. I would stick with Gold crown or silver crown resorts because they are nicer resorts. If you can get a ski resort during Christmas to February, or a week in Orlando Christmas or New years week, spring break, or June and July, that would be good. Any beach resort in June-August would be good as well. Those have higher trading power, so for the years you do not PIC, you can deposit and use it within RCI. The more trading power you have the more options you have. Trading power does not matter when it comes to PIC. Neither does crown status. Only # of bedrooms. I mention the suggestions so you don't end up with a dump that could be sold off or closed. If it closes, you would lose PIC eligibility. If it gets sold off, the new owner may decide to ditch RCI and you would lose PIC eligibility.

To be eligible for PIC express, it can be pretty much any resorts, even if it's points based. I do not think it can be a Wyndham resort though. PIC Express is only good for five years and the points are symbolic. They will could towards VIP but they cannot be used for bookings. After the five years, you have to make a new points purchase to re-enrolll it to PIC.

PIC Plus is good for as long as your account is in good standing, you own that week, and the resort remains open and affiliated with RCI. Full disclosure though. Wyndham has the right to change or terminate the program at anytime. Previous history shows they like to grandfather people into old rules when they make new ones. I have no reason to believe they would not do the same if they decide to change the program. I am not trying to talk you out of it. Just wanted to mention it so you're not caught of guard if they make a change.

 

[F1or1da1]

Additional research:
http://wyndhamexperts.org/index.php/2019/07/27/wyndham-pic-program/

https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/wyndham_personal_interval_choice_PIC_program.html

Now I am a bit more confused
To get PIC points, need to deposit week 9 months prior to actual deposited week

Question:
What happens if I deposit at less than 9 months?

Less than 9 months they are not eligible.
I have an RCI week in S Africa which is a 3BR and worked fine until the resort decided that their year runs from June to June and will NOT allow me to pay 9 or 10 months in advance. What company wouldn’t want cash in advance? Now I can no longer pic that week.