Help me test when and if these cancellations drop back into system

[jules54]

Today I cancelled

Daytona Beach Ocean Walk
7/1-7/6

and

Club Wyndham Oceanside Pier
7/2-7/6

If you check and see they have dropped back into the system and can be booked with discounted points please post. If you can use them take them. We can‘t go either place as Hubby had back surgery on Tuesday and can’t sit that long to drive or fly. Hoping to reschedule at Labor Day weekend.

 

[Sandy VDH]

I have tried to track this before. It has been anywhere from 12 hours to 48 to NEVER.

Can't discover a pattern, and I have tried, as have others.

 

[Sandi Bo]

I've seen things all over the place. I think the resort matters. I think the upgrade process as well as when rooms are released is dependent on each resort. Random by design. Specific to Ocean Walk, I released some nights last week (for August) and never saw them come back. Obviously I could have missed them, but I watched closely. I am watching Ocean Walk anyways, will let you know if I see anything for your dates, thanks for posting @jules54

Random by design.

 

[chapjim]

I have tried to track this before. It has been anywhere from 12 hours to 48 to NEVER.

Can't discover a pattern, and I have tried, as have others.

Same here. I've canceled dozens scores of reservations since the first of the year and have seen just one return to inventory and that one returned the next morning.

To be fair, I haven't looked for all of them and for those I did look for, I gave up after a couple of days.

Believe us, if there were a pattern, it would be a boon to some of us and I think we'd have figured it out by now. I think the only answer is "cancellations return randomly, if at all."

 

[rickandcindy23]

If it's something Wyndham absolutely knows they can rent, they will keep it and you will never see it again. That's truth, unfortunately.

 

[MaryBella7]

I had a reservation for Newport come back immediately. I was taking a chance because my normal week long spring break was shortened to a long weekend. I was able to rebook the unit instantly, and there was no availability for the same unit otherwise. I was glad not to have to stalk it.

 

[Jan M.]

Some of the stays in two bedroom or larger units that we cancel get taken for the automatic upgrades for other owners reservations. Just out of curiosity once in a while I used to watch to see if what I cancelled came back and I'd also watch to see if a smaller unit came back. After a few days when I didn't see what I cancelled come back or a smaller unit that an automatic upgrade would have freed up I didn't know if Wyndham took what I cancelled and/or the smaller unit or another owner booked it because maybe someone else can watch 24/7 but I can't.

Within the 14 day window I've seen reservations come back from almost immediately to up to 3 days. Even within the last 2-3 days I've sometimes seen stays take a full day to come back.

If someone has figured out a pattern I'm guessing they're not sharing it.

 

[chapjim]

If it's something Wyndham absolutely knows they can rent, they will keep it and you will never see it again. That's truth, unfortunately.

I'm not saying you're wrong but I wonder if you have something to back this up. As it is, it's just a bare allegation.

The easy answer to what happens to our cancellations is that they get sucked up by Extra Holidays. A lot of us have looked at that and haven't found it to be so, or at least not frequently so.

 

[wjappraise]

Some of the stays in two bedroom or larger units that we cancel get taken for the automatic upgrades for other owners reservations. Just out of curiosity once in a while I used to watch to see if what I cancelled came back and I'd also watch to see if a smaller unit came back. After a few days when I didn't see what I cancelled come back or a smaller unit that an automatic upgrade would have freed up I didn't know if Wyndham took what I cancelled and/or the smaller unit or another owner booked it because maybe someone else can watch 24/7 but I can't.

Within the 14 day window I've seen reservations come back from almost immediately to up to 3 days. Even within the last 2-3 days I've sometimes seen stays take a full day to come back.

If someone has figured out a pattern I'm guessing they're not sharing it.

I believe it is a very random time frame programmed into the inventory release.

It seems IT folks are all over this forum. And they just love to share their snippets of knowledge. But I haven’t seen any of them chime in on how we could figure it out. Now that would be useful!

Wes.

 

[jules54]

Nothing world shattering only thought it would be nice to have several eyes on the system looking for these. Since I can’t stay on website 24 hrs a day. Lol

 

[dgalati]

Wyndham has done a good job of eliminating the cancel and re-book loophole. Just can't understand why IT doesn't do as good of a job on the online updates.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I believe it is a very random time frame programmed into the inventory release.

It seems IT folks are all over this forum. And they just love to share their snippets of knowledge. But I haven’t seen any of them chime in on how we could figure it out. Now that would be useful!

Wes.

The logic used for automatic upgrades and the timing for inventory release varies dependent upon the resort - so there's no one answer. I've said it before, you're going on a wild goose chase trying to figure this out with well over 500k owners using the same system - by definition anything you "test" is invalid as you cannot eliminate the possibility that someone ran a search and booked what you freed up prior to your being able to see it, especially given the fact that inventory constraints are managed differently at various resorts - you have no idea for any particular resort what the parameters to measure against are - and without a frame of reference - it's impossible to run a valid test.

From an IT standpoint, the processes in scope are managed by the back end Wyndham IT team - and even the website (DT) team that we deal with, isn't privy to the logic used - and doesn't have access to the logic either. We've tried multiple times and via multiple avenues to retrieve the logic that would answer the questions raised in this thread - my honest answer is - we'll never be told what the logic used is. It's proprietary to Wyndham and will never be shared.

EDIT: On a related note - one thing I learned recently during my Wyndham IT travels - is that effective summer 2018 timeframe - for any/all reservations made - the download to the resort system is basically immediate - regardless of how far in advance you make your reservation. This was important to me - as I have been under the general impression that the downloads don't actually occur until 15-30 days before the start date of the reservation. This is especially important whenever calling in to request a specific room - because if you wait until 15-30 days before the start date - you will almost assuredly not get the requested room. So if for whatever reason you don't request a room when you make the initial reservation via the Special Requests section (or it doesn't appear for you to do so - which is sometimes the case as well) - contact the resort right away to make your room request.

 

[dgalati]

The logic used for automatic upgrades and the timing for inventory release varies dependent upon the resort - so there's no one answer. I've said it before, you're going on a wild goose chase trying to figure this out with well over 500k owners using the same system - by definition anything you "test" is invalid as you cannot eliminate the possibility that someone ran a search and booked what you freed up prior to your being able to see it, especially given the fact that inventory constraints are managed differently at various resorts - you have no idea for any particular resort what the parameters to measure against are - and without a frame of reference - it's impossible to run a valid test.

From an IT standpoint, the processes in scope are managed by the back end Wyndham IT team - and even the website (DT) team that we deal with, isn't privy to the logic used - and doesn't have access to the logic either. We've tried multiple times and via multiple avenues to retrieve the logic that would answer the questions raised in this thread - my honest answer is - we'll never be told what the logic used is. It's proprietary to Wyndham and will never be shared.

IT did a great job eliminating the logic for returned inventory. It may have been by mistake but it eliminated the loophole of cancel and rebook when no inventory is available but also helps fill the requested free upgrades. I was on the receiving end of free upgrades last week. Booked 2 -1 bedrooms and requested upgrades. Both rooms were upgraded to 2 bedroom deluxe units.

 

[wjappraise]

The logic used for automatic upgrades and the timing for inventory release varies dependent upon the resort - so there's no one answer. I've said it before, you're going on a wild goose chase trying to figure this out with well over 500k owners using the same system - by definition anything you "test" is invalid as you cannot eliminate the possibility that someone ran a search and booked what you freed up prior to your being able to see it, especially given the fact that inventory constraints are managed differently at various resorts - you have no idea for any particular resort what the parameters to measure against are - and without a frame of reference - it's impossible to run a valid test.

From an IT standpoint, the processes in scope are managed by the back end Wyndham IT team - and even the website (DT) team that we deal with, isn't privy to the logic used - and doesn't have access to the logic either. We've tried multiple times and via multiple avenues to retrieve the logic that would answer the questions raised in this thread - my honest answer is - we'll never be told what the logic used is. It's proprietary to Wyndham and will never be shared.

Thanks for the insight.

Now if only Wyndham were to allocate as much resolve to fixing the website as they have to removing cancel and rebook strategy - we would have the best website ever. So we know they can accomplish a task if they really desire to do so. And they could make it proprietary.

But i simply don’t think the powers that be care enough to actually resolve the problems. Myriad as they are.

Wes.

 

[dgalati]

Thanks for the insight.

Now if only Wyndham were to allocate as much resolve to fixing the website as they have to removing cancel and rebook strategy - we would have the best website ever. So we know they can accomplish a task if they really desire to do so. And they could make it proprietary.

But i simply don’t think the powers that be care enough to actually resolve the problems. Myriad as they are.

Wes.

Now you see the big picture. Wyndham has concentrated on eliminating the rental abuse along with discounts in the 60 day window. I know sales sells it as a way to pay all maintenance fees but the club is changing to benefit owners looking for personal use. This also helps Wyndham by eliminating the cheap rentals that compete with EH.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I'm not saying you're wrong but I wonder if you have something to back this up. As it is, it's just a bare allegation.

The easy answer to what happens to our cancellations is that they get sucked up by Extra Holidays. A lot of us have looked at that and haven't found it to be so, or at least not frequently so.

IIRC embedded in the T&Cs for CWA contracts at least (not sure on CWS contracts) - is verbiage that allows Wyndham to rent out any/all inventory not booked at 30 days or less. So if you cancel inventory within 30 days - it is permissible for Wyndham to take this inventory and rent it at their discretion.

 

[chapjim]

IIRC embedded in the T&Cs for CWA contracts at least (not sure on CWS contracts) - is verbiage that allows Wyndham to rent out any/all inventory not booked at 30 days or less. So if you cancel inventory within 30 days - it is permissible for Wyndham to take this inventory and rent it at their discretion.

Actually, I think it is sixty days. But, the question isn't what CAN Wyndham do. Rather, it's what DOES Wyndham do and there is scant evidence that Wyndham is taking all the cancellations and putting them on Extra Holidays.

 

[dgalati]

Actually, I think it is sixty days. But, the question isn't what CAN Wyndham do. Rather, it's what DOES Wyndham do and there is scant evidence that Wyndham is taking all the cancellations and putting them on Extra Holidays.

I say work the loophole until they close it. Rent all the discounted reservations that are available while they are available. Sooner then later they will close the door on your strategy just like they did on mine and others.

 

[paxsarah]

IIRC embedded in the T&Cs for CWA contracts at least (not sure on CWS contracts) - is verbiage that allows Wyndham to rent out any/all inventory not booked at 30 days or less. So if you cancel inventory within 30 days - it is permissible for Wyndham to take this inventory and rent it at their discretion.

Actually, I think it is sixty days. But, the question isn't what CAN Wyndham do. Rather, it's what DOES Wyndham do and there is scant evidence that Wyndham is taking all the cancellations and putting them on Extra Holidays.

Interestingly enough, the information is right here on this page! It’s part of the VOA trust documents which are included in one of the sticky threads. And you’re both partly right:

11.08 Wyndham Use. In addition to the right of Wyndham, as a Member and owner of Points, to make reservations using those Points at any time, Wyndham, in its capacity as the developer of resort communities and Vacation Plans, may reserve available Accommodations up to 60 days in advance of the first day of anticipated occupancy, for its own purposes, including renting to the public, provided it pays or otherwise causes a third party to pay the occupancy related expenses of such Accommodations for each night to be used. All such occupancy related expenses shall be determined by the Trustee. As a result of Wyndham’s use there will be less space available for Member use; however, Wyndham may not reserve the last 10% of available occupancy for a type of Accommodation until 30 days prior to the first day of intended use.

 

[dgalati]

Interestingly enough, the information is right here on this page! It’s part of the VOA trust documents which are included in one of the sticky threads. And you’re both partly right:

Wow! I wonder if Wyndham uses the VIP discounts and free room upgrades to pad their bottom line with these last minute rentals. I find it self serving that they are squeezing out the low cost rentals that compete with EH. Especially knowing that sales sells more points then a owner can use on the basis of renting the extra points to pay maintenance fees.