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I live in south Florida in Palm Beach County. We are like the 5th borough of New York. When a NY lockdown seemed imminent, people fled the state for Palm Beach and Broward counties. I was at my Shell station getting gas one day and it was all NY plates filling up, including “Bette” (as her plate read) filing up her motor home she had just driven down in. I could stand on US-1 and watch the traffic and it was like NY on Parade. You would have had to live here or have been here to see the magnitude of the problem we faced. I am still seeing NY plates parked in the lot at my grocery store. Now that our season for snowbirds is ending (generally Nov. 1- May 1), I hope to see less of this. I agree with you that Florida did not enact the types of restrictions you see in Hawaii and would have benefited from doing so. Access points into the state should have been controlled more carefully. There is no enforcement of quarantining for new arrivals. Case in point - my husband’s friend flew down from NJ (out of PHL) a few days ago because they recently bought a condo in Broward. He and his wife are out sitting at the community pool and shopping in Target. It is as if the rules do not apply to them. It makes me upset because I am doing my part to help the country get beyond this and making sacrifices to do so but not everyone is complying.
But as I noted in post #335 above, you guys are actually doing pretty well in Florida controlling the impact of the virus despite what some consider a weak response, especially considering the older population base. Maybe the more limited actions taken there were appropriate for Florida. Many of the states that have received the most criticism for acting slowly or weakly have some of the lowest death rates per capita in the US.
If someone comes to Florida from NY, but still practices social distancing in a responsible way, they really don't need to quarantine any more than someone who lives in Florida. A Florida resident who doesn't take things seriously, doesn't use good hand hygiene, and doesn't distance, is a bigger risk of being a spreader than the couple you mentioned who own the condo in Broward. If they keep to themselves at the pool, and use good sense when at Target, they should be fine. They are Florida property owners, so they should have the right to use their owned property - they pay property taxes like everyone else - like a Florida resident, they have a responsibility to act in a responsible manner.
Controlling the access points into the state was tried, but massive traffic jams resulted. In the end, the quarantine orders almost have to be somewhat voluntary, as enforcement can be very difficult, and the orders serve as more of a deterrent to people coming than an enforceable directive. If someone still comes and behaves responsibly, all should be just fine.
Back to the topic of Hawaii's restrictions, I received a blast email from Timeshare Resales Hawaii this morning that had a good summary of the current orders in place:
State Travel Restrictions
Gov. David Ige has extended the mandatory 2 week quarantine for incoming visitors until May 31. Visitors who do not abide by these restrictions face a $5,000 fine and up to a year in prison. These rules also apply to inter-island travel for residents and visitors alike.They include: Do not use any shared facilities such as pools, have all food ordered and dropped off, and only leave for medical emergencies.
The DOT and Department of Business, Economic Development, and Tourism launched an app on April 10. It allows travelers to fill out their personal information and place where they are staying before flying out to Hawaii. Once they arrive, they must complete their registration and check-in daily. They will be required to fill out a Department of Agriculture form on the flight and will have their temperature taken once they get off. Anyone with a high temperature will receive assistance by medical staff. Visitors will then move to the check-point station where they will show their ID and sign a form signifying they are aware of the mandatory quarantine and penalties.
Vacation rentals are not considered an essential business and are not allowed to operate.
Current Stay-at-Home Order
The stay-at-home order for residents and non-essential businesses has been re-issued until May 31. Essential businesses include grocery stores, medical services, select banks, and gas stations. People must maintain 6ft apart while waiting in lines and wear a face mask.
Outdoor exercise is permitted, as long as social distancing requirements are observed. Swimming, snorkeling, paddle boarding, surfing, jogging, walking and running are activities allowed on beaches. Lounging on beaches is not. Group hiking is not allowed, unless you are sharing the same residence. People who do not want to hike solo must maintain a 20ft distance apart.
I can appreciate Hawaii's reasons for implementing these very restrictive policies, but I can't see how they can be sustained long term until there is a vaccine. I understand an island system is a unique situation with unique risks, but it seems that to rescue the most important industry in the islands - tourism - they are going to have to find a middle ground sooner rather than later. If they don't, the pain and economic hardship their state is going to face will be unprecedented.
Back to the topic of Hawaii's restrictions, I received a blast email from Timeshare Resales Hawaii this morning that had a good summary of the current orders in place:
State Travel Restrictions
Gov. David Ige has extended the mandatory 2 week quarantine for incoming visitors until May 31. Visitors who do not abide by these restrictions face a $5,000 fine and up to a year in prison. These rules also apply to inter-island travel for residents and visitors alike.They include: Do not use any shared facilities such as pools, have all food ordered and dropped off, and only leave for medical emergencies.
The DOT and Department of Business, Economic Development, and Tourism launched an app on April 10. It allows travelers to fill out their personal information and place where they are staying before flying out to Hawaii. Once they arrive, they must complete their registration and check-in daily. They will be required to fill out a Department of Agriculture form on the flight and will have their temperature taken once they get off. Anyone with a high temperature will receive assistance by medical staff. Visitors will then move to the check-point station where they will show their ID and sign a form signifying they are aware of the mandatory quarantine and penalties.
Vacation rentals are not considered an essential business and are not allowed to operate.
Current Stay-at-Home Order
The stay-at-home order for residents and non-essential businesses has been re-issued until May 31. Essential businesses include grocery stores, medical services, select banks, and gas stations. People must maintain 6ft apart while waiting in lines and wear a face mask.
Outdoor exercise is permitted, as long as social distancing requirements are observed. Swimming, snorkeling, paddle boarding, surfing, jogging, walking and running are activities allowed on beaches. Lounging on beaches is not. Group hiking is not allowed, unless you are sharing the same residence. People who do not want to hike solo must maintain a 20ft distance apart.
I can appreciate Hawaii's reasons for implementing these very restrictive policies, but I can't see how they can be sustained long term until there is a vaccine. I understand an island system is a unique situation with unique risks, but it seems that to rescue the most important industry in the islands - tourism - they are going to have to find a middle ground sooner rather than later. If they don't, the pain and economic hardship their state is going to face will be unprecedented.
“Unprecedented” is an understatement. I heard estimates that unemployment here in Hawaii is 37%. There will be a lot of people leaving here if Hawaii doesn’t figure out how to open things up.
Sorry if this has been discussed but just found this thread and I don’t want to go through 14 pages of discussion Are restaurants open or is it take out only?
Sorry if this has been discussed but just found this thread and I don’t want to go through 14 pages of discussion Are restaurants open or is it take out only?
‘I wonder if there is a pre-departure testing/quarantine protocol that could be developed. Something like that is currently being used for pets that are brought to Hawaii.
I think testing is a possibility but will certainly have challenges.
I believe there is still a shortage of testing capability, and may be quite a long time before there is enough capacity for discretionary tests related to travel. If you have people do it in advance then you need capacity all over. If you do the testing on arrival, then other passengers have been exposed, plus you have to fly people that fail back right away.
From the vacation travel perspective, you pay for flights, incur charges for a hotel or timeshare, then one or more people in your party show positive on a test, then you incurred expenses but no travel.. maybe that the way it has to be, but its not a great experience...
This was posted in the Vistana forum regarding the plan in The Bahamas. While it doesn't relate to Hawaii, I could easily see Hawaii adopting something similar, with tourism being the last thing to come back.
Disney Vacation Club (Aulani,SSR,VGC,VGF) Hilton Grand Vacation Club(Bay Club, Kohala Suites, The District) Marriott Vacation Club (Aruba Surf Club, Grand Residence, Grand Chateau, Grand Vista,Harbour Lake, KoOlina,Willow Ridge & DC points)
Yes, whatever restaurants survive serving take out only for over 2 months.
Restaurants will be open for full service probably before the quarantine restriction is lifted. A lot of small businesses can not be closed for over 2 months and survive.
This was posted in the Vistana forum regarding the plan in The Bahamas. While it doesn't relate to Hawaii, I could easily see Hawaii adopting something similar, with tourism being the last thing to come back.
Applying that to Hawaii could be a problem if tourism is relegated to Phase 5. Prior to Phase 5 there is no money to sustain Phases 2, 3 or 4. Once again it is what came first, the chicken or the egg?
Let me amend my comment: "A couple of thoughts. I believe that there is a test that takes under 20 minutes. So - - say, the TSA makes you show up an hour or two early, you get a test, and they analyze the results BEFORE you get on the plane.
Let me amend my comment: "A couple of thoughts. I believe that there is a test that takes under 20 minutes. So - - say, the TSA makes you show up an hour or two early, you get a test, and they analyze the results BEFORE you get on the plane.
I may be wrong about this, but what I think I've read about those quick tests is they take a specific type of medical equipment to process and are fairly low throughput. They are not like the sophisticated mass-processing equipment at central labs that can process hundred of samples at the same time. The question would be how many of those machines would you need at an airport to process typical passenger volumes, and what kind of medical personnel would be required to process those tests. Trying to process just one planeload of 200 people in reasonable time might take at lot of the quick test machines.
et me amend my comment: "A couple of thoughts. I believe that there is a test that takes under 20 minutes. So - - say, the TSA makes you show up an hour or two early, you get a test, and they analyze the results BEFORE you get on the plane.
4 per hour can be tested per analyzer. 200 passengers divided by 4 is 50. so it would take 50 analyzers to test 200 people in one hour. Not an easy logistical problem to solve.
A half empty plane cuts it down to 25 analyzers. Then there's the testing cost (analyzers, test media, and a number of employees qualified to run the test) to be added to the ticket price, that should lower the number of passengers and make the testing even quicker.
4 per hour can be tested per analyzer. 200 passengers divided by 4 is 50. so it would take 50 analyzers to test 200 people in one hour. Not an easy logistical problem to solve.
A half empty plane cuts it down to 25 analyzers. Then there's the testing cost (analyzers, test media, and a number of employees qualified to run the test) to be added to the ticket price, that should lower the number of passengers and make the testing even quicker.
Let me amend my comment: "A couple of thoughts. I believe that there is a test that takes under 20 minutes. So - - say, the TSA makes you show up an hour or two early, you get a test, and they analyze the results BEFORE you get on the plane.
You must not have traveled through a major airport TSA checkpoint when things were "normal" and the TSA line was 45-60 minutes long for a 30-second pass through the scanner. A 20-minute Covid test would multiply the TSA clearing by 40 times. 40 times 45-60 minutes equals ??? -- days.
Let me amend my comment: "A couple of thoughts. I believe that there is a test that takes under 20 minutes. So - - say, the TSA makes you show up an hour or two early, you get a test, and they analyze the results BEFORE you get on the plane.
Hawaii has the highest number of people who applied for unemployment of all states, 26%. At the same time, I read that 50% of those that have applied make more money than when they were working (this is not Hawaii specific)
I think testing is a possibility but will certainly have challenges.
I believe there is still a shortage of testing capability, and may be quite a long time before there is enough capacity for discretionary tests related to travel. If you have people do it in advance then you need capacity all over. If you do the testing on arrival, then other passengers have been exposed, plus you have to fly people that fail back right away.
From the vacation travel perspective, you pay for flights, incur charges for a hotel or timeshare, then one or more people in your party show positive on a test, then you incurred expenses but no travel.. maybe that the way it has to be, but its not a great experience...
The 14 day quarantine of travellers to Hawaii is going to turn most vacationers off. Most people travel for 14 days or less so that if they are to be quarantined for their entire trip they will say I will travel somewhere else. Testing of travellers before or after flying may not be practical but some solution needs to be implemented to increase the number of tourists going to Hawaii to start up their econony again. Some solution, rather than continuing the 14 day quarantine, needs to be implemented.
Doing the tests on arrival is ridiculous. Travellers will be incuring the expenses for travel and then not being able to have an enjoyable vacation. If one passenger tests positive, all passengers and crew on the flight will be in danger of being infected and placed in quarantine. I can only see the testing working for travel if it is done before the flight. Whether that is antibody testing or active virus testing. Whether that has to be done a certain amount of time before the flight or just before the flight. If it can't be done right before the flight then the quarentine should be done at the place where the flight is coming from so that travellers don't incur the cost of a bad trip and the flight crew is not endangered.
Hawaii has the highest number of people who applied for unemployment of all states, 26%. At the same time, I read that 50% of those that have applied make more money than when they were working (this is not Hawaii specific)
I am not surpised that Hawaii has had the highest number of applications for unemployment. I am surprised that it is only a slight number more than the other high states, I would have thought it would be much more since it is so dependent on tourism and tourism has just about been haulted. My previous post emphasizes the importance in coming up with a solution to get tourism going again in Hawaii so that the economy can improve.
Hawaii has the highest number of people who applied for unemployment of all states, 26%. At the same time, I read that 50% of those that have applied make more money than when they were working (this is not Hawaii specific)
I read somewhere (maybe here on TUG?) the proposal that to be able to board the airplane, you had to provide a test result that had been taken in the last several days. So if I show up at the terminal and I do not have a test result showing I was clear (72 hours ago?) then I can't board the plane.
This seems like a manageable process -- has anyone seen anything that could support this? I have not (and I have been looking).
Yeah, I have a friend in Honolulu and he says it’s very high there too. @slip would probably know better. He’s lucky as he works in the food industry. However, if you are in hospitality, you are in trouble and that’s where most the Hawaii jobs are. The saving grace is Military is Hawaii’s largest industry and I am sure that is sustaining things somewhat.
I read somewhere (maybe here on TUG?) the proposal that to be able to board the airplane, you had to provide a test result that had been taken in the last several days. So if I show up at the terminal and I do not have a test result showing I was clear (72 hours ago?) then I can't board the plane.
This seems like a manageable process -- has anyone seen anything that could support this? I have not (and I have been looking).
Seems to me that would completely shut down the upfront fee timeshare resale companies. Because it would be much easier and more lucrative to sell phony test results than to sell phony timeshare purchase contracts.
Seems to me that would completely shut down the upfront fee timeshare resale companies. Because it would be much easier and more lucrative to sell phony test results than to sell phony timeshare purchase contracts.
Maybe those people who sell the phony "service animal" vests could expand to sell phony CV-19 test result certificates. They can become the the go-to travel services companies in our new economy (what will be left of it).
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Are restaurants open or is it take out only?
