Hawaii to require 14-day quarantine of incoming air passengers [merged]

[JIMinNC]

Perhaps that's why we see Florida has 5X the number of deaths per capita than Hawaii, 4X the number of cases per capita, and we see this difference in the Projections that just came out?

FLORIDA:
View attachment 19780

HAWAII:
View attachment 19781

Comparing Florida and Hawaii is not really a fair comparison in my opinion. As an island, it's much easier to restrict access to Hawaii as it's all by air, and the drastic reduction of demand/flights, make that easy. Florida can be accessed by three interstate highways and many more state and federal highways, so the practicality of cutting it off from the rest of the nation is logistically unlikely and legally questionable as well. Access is so much easier in the continental U.S. Even Hawaii has had difficulty enforcing a quarantine order with the limited new arrivals, so it would be basically impossible for Florida to enforce it. They initially tried setting up checkpoints on I-95, but the resulting traffic backups made that a poor choice.

In the end, the tactics states and municipalities have taken to discourage travel rather than expressly prohibit it are probably the best approaches in a non-totalitarian state. Even in Michigan where they initially said property owners could not travel to their vacation homes, I believe I read where the real threat of legal action has forced them to back off of that more draconian order.

 

[caribbeanqueen]

Amy we have a vacation home in Venice. My parents are in Port Charlotte. My mom is in a nursing home there and just had 3 workers and one patient test positive. My mom's roommate was sent to the hospital with covid 19 symptoms but her results are not back. Meantime my mom has been put into isolation with no sign of symptoms-yet. Sadly it is indeed considered God's waiting room because of the huge elderly population. It will be interesting to see if the cases spike due to beaches opening back up to walking.
We were hoping to go to Maui this year sometime. It will be our 40th anniversary in December. My husband keeps saying he wants to spend a month there. Doesn't sound like they want to open to visitors anytime soon!

 

[amy241]

Amy we have a vacation home in Venice. My parents are in Port Charlotte. My mom is in a nursing home there and just had 3 workers and one patient test positive. My mom's roommate was sent to the hospital with covid 19 symptoms but her results are not back. Meantime my mom has been put into isolation with no sign of symptoms-yet. Sadly it is indeed considered God's waiting room because of the huge elderly population. It will be interesting to see if the cases spike due to beaches opening back up to walking.
We were hoping to go to Maui this year sometime. It will be our 40th anniversary in December. My husband keeps saying he wants to spend a month there. Doesn't sound like they want to open to visitors anytime soon!

I’m so sorry to hear your mom’s elder care facility is dealing with Covid19. I hope that your mom will be safe and that her results are negative. We rebooked our trip for 11/21 - 12/22. I hope we are able to go then. I have a small fortune into first class airfare from the mainland and a series of inter island flights.

 

[Kapolei]

Amy we have a vacation home in Venice. My parents are in Port Charlotte. My mom is in a nursing home there and just had 3 workers and one patient test positive. My mom's roommate was sent to the hospital with covid 19 symptoms but her results are not back. Meantime my mom has been put into isolation with no sign of symptoms-yet. Sadly it is indeed considered God's waiting room because of the huge elderly population. It will be interesting to see if the cases spike due to beaches opening back up to walking.
We were hoping to go to Maui this year sometime. It will be our 40th anniversary in December. My husband keeps saying he wants to spend a month there. Doesn't sound like they want to open to visitors anytime soon!

success against this virus is a double-edge sword. There is almost zero immunity in Hawaii right now. Even if you multiply the 600 cases by ten, you have only 6000 people out of 1 million that have some level of immunity. I think you are correct, Hawaii will not being allowing random, untested arrivals without quarantine for some time to come.
But I don’t think it has anything to do with wanting or not wanting people. It has to do with all arrivals. As a resident, I can’t leave without the same problem coming back.

 

[JIMinNC]

It will be interesting to see if the cases spike due to beaches opening back up to walking.

I still don't understand the aversion to localities opening up beaches. The chances of being infected while walking on the beach - or sitting on the beach in a chair - are very small in the open air and sunlight as long as people observe the same social distancing protocols they observe elsewhere.

I think a lot of the recent concern stems from some of the photos that circulated after Duval County (Jacksonville) opened their beaches. But the photos/videos that made the national news seemed to all be shot with long zoom lenses. As a photographer myself, I point out to people that zoom lenses compress perspective and make distant objects appear closer together and closer to objects in the foreground than they really are. We photographers use that feature of zoom lenses all the time to create interesting and unique images. It can also be used to make areas appear more crowded than they really are. I saw a local JAX media outlet that posted some comparison videos shot from drones or helicopters at the same place at the same time that the widely-distributed shots were taken from the ground when the beaches opened. While these aerial shots never made the national news, they clearly showed that while there were quite a few people there, they were widely-spaced, and except for what appeared to be family groups/couples, were generally observing social distancing protocols well over 6-feet. The local JAX media outlet was trying to make the point that their locals were not as irresponsible as they were made to appear in the national media.

Beach access has become a hot button in SC as well, but we made a quick trip to our new condo on Hilton Head Island over the weekend to take some small furniture items to try to make it livable, and walked out to the beach to relax for an hour. Public beach access is closed until Friday on HHI, but private access never closed. Here is a shot of the beach outside our condo in mid-afternoon on Sunday. Everyone was being responsible and distancing.

 

[csodjd]

I still don't understand the aversion to localities opening up beaches. The chances of being infected while walking on the beach - or sitting on the beach in a chair - are very small in the open air and sunlight as long as people observe the same social distancing protocols they observe elsewhere.

I think a lot of the recent concern stems from some of the photos that circulated after Duval County (Jacksonville) opened their beaches. But the photos/videos that made the national news seemed to all be shot with long zoom lenses. As a photographer myself, I point out to people that zoom lenses compress perspective and make distant objects appear closer together and closer to objects in the foreground than they really are. We photographers use that feature of zoom lenses all the time to create interesting and unique images. It can also be used to make areas appear more crowded than they really are. I saw a local JAX media outlet that posted some comparison videos shot from drones or helicopters at the same place at the same time that the widely-distributed shots were taken from the ground when the beaches opened. While these aerial shots never made the national news, they clearly showed that while there were quite a few people there, they were widely-spaced, and except for what appeared to be family groups/couples, were generally observing social distancing protocols well over 6-feet. The local JAX media outlet was trying to make the point that their locals were not as irresponsible as they were made to appear in the national media.

Beach access has become a hot button in SC as well, but we made a quick trip to our new condo on Hilton Head Island over the weekend to take some small furniture items to try to make it livable, and walked out to the beach to relax for an hour. Public beach access is closed until Friday on HHI, but private access never closed. Here is a shot of the beach outside our condo in mid-afternoon on Sunday. Everyone was being responsible and distancing.

View attachment 19806

I suspect it's just raw numbers. Here in So. Cal., where it was 90+ this weekend, there were a lot of people on the beaches that were allowed to open. Little doubt some were contagious. Nobody wearing a mask. While social distancing is nice, you walk behind someone that feels a cough coming, innocently turns to cough away from people in front of them, and they cover the person walking by. It's just too difficult to enforce or police or even expect 6' distancing if there are 200,000 people on a beach.

 

[csodjd]

Comparing Florida and Hawaii is not really a fair comparison in my opinion. As an island, it's much easier to restrict access to Hawaii as it's all by air, and the drastic reduction of demand/flights, make that easy. Florida can be accessed by three interstate highways and many more state and federal highways, so the practicality of cutting it off from the rest of the nation is logistically unlikely and legally questionable as well. Access is so much easier in the continental U.S. Even Hawaii has had difficulty enforcing a quarantine order with the limited new arrivals, so it would be basically impossible for Florida to enforce it. They initially tried setting up checkpoints on I-95, but the resulting traffic backups made that a poor choice.

In the end, the tactics states and municipalities have taken to discourage travel rather than expressly prohibit it are probably the best approaches in a non-totalitarian state. Even in Michigan where they initially said property owners could not travel to their vacation homes, I believe I read where the real threat of legal action has forced them to back off of that more draconian order.

Sorry, but I'm not accepting the premise that the RULES in play don't play a role. Florida didn't impose the kind of protective rules that Hawaii imposed. Yes, Hawaii might have an easier time enforcing those rules. But if you don't even HAVE the rules, you are inviting the results. And it's not like South Florida is just a short drive away. It is a long drive from anywhere outside of Florida. And the Floridians say the problem was not from people driving in, it was from people flying in from NY. That's no different than flying into Hawaii from the West Coast.

 

[bnoble]

I think a lot of the recent concern stems from some of the photos that circulated after Duval County (Jacksonville) opened their beaches. But the photos/videos that made the national news seemed to all be shot with long zoom lenses.

Certainly possible. Here's a good example of that:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254460167812415489

 

[JIMinNC]

Certainly possible. Here's a good example of that:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1254460167812415489

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Picture on the left looks packed. Not so much on the right.

Photographers want to get their picture published. I know. I am one. A picture showing a crowded beach during the pandemic will get published because it fits the narrative and creates discussion/interest. A picture showing people playing by the rules isn't news, so it won't get published. That's a fact.

 

[JIMinNC]

Sorry, but I'm not accepting the premise that the RULES in play don't play a role. Florida didn't impose the kind of protective rules that Hawaii imposed. Yes, Hawaii might have an easier time enforcing those rules. But if you don't even HAVE the rules, you are inviting the results. And it's not like South Florida is just a short drive away. It is a long drive from anywhere outside of Florida. And the Floridians say the problem was not from people driving in, it was from people flying in from NY. That's no different than flying into Hawaii from the West Coast.

But why does everyone hate on Florida? I don't live there, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but here are the facts. Things aren't THAT bad in Florida compared to many other states in the U.S., so maybe Florida didn't NEED to impose the same kind of restrictive rules other states felt they needed to impose. In a nation of the size and diversity of the U.S., one size doesn't fit all. Florida is the third most populous state in the US, but they are middle of the pack in COVID impact. I don't want to use case counts because that depends so much on how much testing has been done, and every state is different in testing rates; but deaths attributed to COVID is probably the best common measure between states. Here are deaths per 100K residents for some key states, per CNN:

New York -- 118
New Jersey -- 73
Connecticut -- 59
Massachusetts -- 46
Louisiana -- 39
Michigan -- 36
D.C. -- 27
Rhode Island -- 23
Illinois -- 17
Maryland -- 17
Pennsylvania -- 16
Delaware -- 14
Colorado -- 13
Indiana -- 13
Washington -- 10
Georgia -- 10
Vermont -- 8
Nevada -- 7
Ohio -- 7
Virginia -- 6
Florida -- 5
California -- 5
Missouri -- 5
Many other states -- 2-5
Hawaii - 1
Utah -- 1
South Dakota - 1
Montana -1
Alaska -- 1
Wyoming -- 1

The narrative seems to be that Florida was late in acting and is being cavalier with the lives of their people, whereas California acted early and in a very strict manner, so they saved lives. The facts tell a different story, because the death rates in California and Florida are basically the same. When I consider that Florida's elderly population (with a median age of 41.8) puts them at an automatic disadvantage with this disease, the fact that their death rate is the same as California (with a median age of 36.1) makes me wonder why the narrative is that Florida is being irresponsible, but California took all the right steps? When you look at the data above, why aren't we questioning the response of the 10 or 12 top death-rate states in the list rather than the states near the middle or bottom? Many other southern states are being criticized heavily for trying to re-open their businesses, but except for Georgia, they are all in the low 2-5 fatalities per 100K. Why are we questioning the states with the best results and praising the states with the worst results? I don't get it. (Note -- I do agree that Georgia is being a little too aggressive in their re-opening plans based on their statistics, but Atlanta does skew their numbers, so maybe they should have taken a different approach for ATL vs. the rest of the state).

But back to the point of this thread, Hawaii is one of the states with the best numbers, but as I mentioned, they are a unique, isolated situation. They can control access in ways other states can't. I just hope we can return there in late January 2021.

 

[Kapolei]

I was in the water today at Nanakuli beach. A few small groups of kids with parents supervising. But really hardly anyone there. People have taken this seriously on Oahu. We have had a couple zero days in a row. The virus is effectively gone on this Island (at least for now).

 

[JIMinNC]

I was in the water today at Nanakuli beach. A few small groups of kids with parents supervising. But really hardly anyone there. People have taken this seriously on Oahu. We have had a couple zero days in a row. The virus is effectively gone on this Island (at least for now).

I think Hawaii (and maybe Alaska) are states that can effectively combat, isolate and control this virus because of their isolation. Island nations like New Zealand and Iceland have had similar success. They key for Hawaii is, once it is truly controlled for now, how can they re-open the key economic driver of tourism while avoiding a resurgence of infections? That is going to be a challenge, but it may be easier for Hawaii than places with more uncontrolled access.

 

[Kapolei]

I think Hawaii (and maybe Alaska) are states that can effectively combat, isolate and control this virus because of their isolation. Island nations like New Zealand and Iceland have had similar success. They key for Hawaii is, once it is truly controlled for now, how can they re-open the key economic driver of tourism while avoiding a resurgence of infections? That is going to be a challenge, but it may be easier for Hawaii than places with more uncontrolled access.

My speculation ... Until there is a better system in place, I think people could be told to walk down stairs onto the tarmac and then loaded into a bus and taken for processing in an empty hanger. If you check out, the bus will return you to the terminal so you can get your rental car or be picked up. If you fail the checks, you are detained in a central quarantine where you can elect to stay for 14 days or you can choose to fly back out If you are from somewhere else. What you need to do to pass the test and avoid quarantine would be a big question.

 

[Tamaradarann]

By testing, do you mean to check for an active Covid19 infection or to check for antibodies? I haven’t had it and don’t want it. If they allow only those with some level of immunity, it will exclude me and the vast majority of people. It would be better to check for active infections. We just bought a unit at MKO in 2019 with usage to begin in 2020 and haven’t even been able to use it. This would have been our first year of use. There seems to be a negativity to tourists that the pandemic is bringing out - maybe it was always there but more pronounced now - and it makes me sad. We had a 37 day trip involving 3 islands that was cancelled. We were to depart April 24th and would be there now if not for this crisis.

I am not sure what Jerry Gibson meant by testing, however, I would look at both types of testing. I think that having the antibodies is great if it prevents one from getting the disease again and, therefore, be a carrier. People with the antiboides should be able to travel. If no antibodies, then a test for the active infection of the traveler just before the flight. People with a negative result of the active infection should be able to travel. Don't give up on your trip to Hawaii. It will happen sooner or later and believe me it is worth the wait.

As far as the negativity toward tourists I will express these thoughts:

One, there is a negativity toward tourist that the pandemic brought out since people in Hawaii as well as all around the world are scared and are trying very hard not to get the infection. If you don't have the infection, and your family and your neighbors don't have the infection, and if people that come into your neighborhood can bring the infection, you don't want them to come.

Two, we have spent over 1000 nights in Hawaii and have always found the people and the environment very friendly, welcoming, and desirable. We love it there. However, we learned in school that the United States Annexed Hawaii in 1898. Thats it. if you learn some of the history of Hawaii, the overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy, and the United States part in that overthrow you may learn why there are people in Hawaii who want to return to the Monarchy, they don't like tourists, and they don't like people from the United States.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. Picture on the left looks packed. Not so much on the right.

Photographers want to get their picture published. I know. I am one. A picture showing a crowded beach during the pandemic will get published because it fits the narrative and creates discussion/interest. A picture showing people playing by the rules isn't news, so it won't get published. That's a fact.

On another thread recently I posted a personal anecdote about an experience I had with the Sacramento Bureau Chief for one of the major network-owned television stations in San Francisco. They rewrote the "facts" of a news story to make it a "better" story. After the story ran I had a meeting with the bureau chief (I had been providing information on the story- part of my job), and he readily acknowledged that they had altered the story to fit their preferred narrative.

Hence not the least bit surprised when Dateline was found to have fabricated much of the information in their story about fuel tank explosions in GM Trucks. The bigger question is how many stories were run on programs such as 60 Minutes, Dateline, and 20/20 where the fabrications were not detected or rebutted and have been accepted as gospel?

Dateline NBC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dsmrp]

My friend told me the other day of her friend's daughter and boyfriend being stuck in Honolulu. They went for a 4 day trip and have been there for about 6 weeks, as they can't get a flight out.
Fortunately they brought their work laptops with them, so have been working remotely.
I guess they found a reasonable cost place to stay.

 

[Kapolei]

My friend told me the other day of her friend's daughter and boyfriend being stuck in Honolulu. They went for a 4 day trip and have been there for about 6 weeks, as they can't get a flight out.
Fortunately they brought their work laptops with them, so have been working remotely.
I guess they found a reasonable cost place to stay.

Except it has been reported that there are flights out. So this makes no sense to me.

 

[CO skier]

They key for Hawaii is, once it is truly controlled for now, how can they re-open the key economic driver of tourism while avoiding a resurgence of infections? That is going to be a challenge, but it may be easier for Hawaii than places with more uncontrolled access.

That is the thing. If Hawaii succeeds in their mitigation efforts, they cannot open until there is a Covid-19 vaccine for the Hawaii populous. Even if the rest of the world faces reality and adopts the minimal Swedish mitigation to achieve some degree of "herd immunity," the Hawaiian residents would still be vulnerable until a vaccine is developed.

In the meantime, there are many questions about any immunity to Covid-19 and there is no certainty that a vaccine developed for this year's Covid-19 will be effective against a future Covid-19 mutation.

 

[Kapolei]

That is the thing. If Hawaii succeeds in their mitigation efforts, they cannot open until there is a Covid-19 vaccine for the Hawaii populous. Even if the rest of the world faces reality and adopts the minimal Swedish mitigation to achieve some degree of "herd immunity," the Hawaiian residents would still be vulnerable until a vaccine is developed.

In the meantime, there are many questions about any immunity to Covid-19 and there is no certainty that a vaccine developed for this year's Covid-19 will be effective against a future Covid-19 mutation.

‘I wonder if there is a pre-departure testing/quarantine protocol that could be developed. Something like that is currently being used for pets that are brought to Hawaii.

 

[csodjd]

‘I wonder if there is a pre-departure testing/quarantine protocol that could be developed. Something like that is currently being used for pets that are brought to Hawaii.

It is being done now when departing Dubai on Emerates Airlines. https://www.emirates.com/media-cent...-on-site-rapid-covid-19-tests-for-passengers/

You have your choice... get tested and receive some kind of "certification" immediately before departure, or upon arrival, and if you are not negative, 14 day quarantine.

 

[CO skier]

‘I wonder if there is a pre-departure testing/quarantine protocol that could be developed. Something like that is currently being used for pets that are brought to Hawaii.

Considering infected persons can "shed" the virus for days before symptoms appear, this would not be an effective protocol. Then there are the asymptomatic carriers. No one know how long these carriers are contagious.

Hawaii could institute a 14-day pre-departure quarantine, but that would be as impractical as the current arrival 14-day quarantine. (Where would the departing passengers be quarantined, and what if as little as one of them developed symptoms?)

 

[BJRSanDiego]

‘I wonder if there is a pre-departure testing/quarantine protocol that could be developed. Something like that is currently being used for pets that are brought to Hawaii.

A couple of thoughts. I believe that there is a test that takes under 20 minutes. So - - say, the TSA makes you show up an hour early, get a test, and they analyze the results before you get on the plane - - or as a back up you fly and they get the results while you're in the air. If positive, you either go into quarantine or fly back to the mainland.

Just a thought....

 

[CO skier]

If positive, you either go into quarantine or fly back to the mainland.

"If positive, you (AND THE REST OF THE PLANE LOAD OF PASSENGERS) either go into quarantine or fly back to the mainland."

Just another example of the impracticalities.

 

[Kapolei]

Considering infected persons can "shed" the virus for days before symptoms appear, this would not be an effective protocol. Then there are the asymptomatic carriers. No one know how long these carriers are contagious.

Hawaii could institute a 14-day pre-departure quarantine, but that would be as impractical as the current arrival 14-day quarantine. (Where would the departing passengers be quarantined, and what if as little as one of them developed symptoms?)

I know animals used to sit in the quarantine station for many weeks. Then they changed the protocol to some kind of testing ahead of time. That is for rabies. I have very little knowledge in any of these areas. Just asking questions her.

 

[amy241]

Sorry, but I'm not accepting the premise that the RULES in play don't play a role. Florida didn't impose the kind of protective rules that Hawaii imposed. Yes, Hawaii might have an easier time enforcing those rules. But if you don't even HAVE the rules, you are inviting the results. And it's not like South Florida is just a short drive away. It is a long drive from anywhere outside of Florida. And the Floridians say the problem was not from people driving in, it was from people flying in from NY. That's no different than flying into Hawaii from the West Coast.

I live in south Florida in Palm Beach County. We are like the 5th borough of New York. When a NY lockdown seemed imminent, people fled the state for Palm Beach and Broward counties. I was at my Shell station getting gas one day and it was all NY plates filling up, including “Bette” (as her plate read) filing up her motor home she had just driven down in. I could stand on US-1 and watch the traffic and it was like NY on Parade. You would have had to live here or have been here to see the magnitude of the problem we faced. I am still seeing NY plates parked in the lot at my grocery store. Now that our season for snowbirds is ending (generally Nov. 1- May 1), I hope to see less of this. I agree with you that Florida did not enact the types of restrictions you see in Hawaii and would have benefited from doing so. Access points into the state should have been controlled more carefully. There is no enforcement of quarantining for new arrivals. Case in point - my husband’s friend flew down from NJ (out of PHL) a few days ago because they recently bought a condo in Broward. He and his wife are out sitting at the community pool and shopping in Target. It is as if the rules do not apply to them. It makes me upset because I am doing my part to help the country get beyond this and making sacrifices to do so but not everyone is complying.