• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Having second thoughts

Kitsune85

newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
9
Reaction score
14
Points
3
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Orlando
Hey, everyone! My wife and I attended a presentation this morning and to make a long story short we pulled the plug on 200k points (deeded at the Orlando property) for $29k and maintenance fees of $119.67. We went into this whole thing knowing very little, but we were DVC members years ago (ended up having to get rid of it, and we've been considering getting something similar now that we're in a better financial position, which is why we attended the presentation anyway). Rather than financing the cost, we paid for everything outright and got 300,000 points and 2 RCI Bonus Weeks.

But after reading tons of horror stories online and seeing the aftermarket sales, I feel like we may have been fleeced. For example, this listing is 175k points for only $3000 and $92 maintenance fees. That's quite a stark difference, and it makes me wonder if I'm misunderstanding something about aftermarket points or if we just made a dumb decision that I need to try to reverse.

Another question to those who have redeemed points for airfare: how much bang for your buck do you usually get? One of the big sales points for us was the ability to also use points for airfare, but I fear it may be prohibitively expensive, points-wise, to make it worth it. And as I'm sure you all know, airfare can often be the largest cost of any international vacation.
 

samara64

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
1,038
Reaction score
463
Points
443
Location
Seattle
Rescind NOW please. Just send a certified letter tomorrow morning to cancel the contract. Both of you must sign it.

$3000 is TOO high for this resale. Go to eBay.com and get it for free including closing costs.

Airfare and cruises is not worth it. Anything but using the points to stay in a timeshare is a gimmick and too expensive.
 
Last edited:

Kitsune85

newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
9
Reaction score
14
Points
3
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Orlando
Quote
Rescind NOW please. Just send a certified letter tomorrow morning to cancel the contract. Both of you must sign it.

$3000 is TOO high for this resale. Go to eBay.com and get it for free including closing costs.

Airfare is not worth it. Anything but using the points to stay in a timeshare is a gimmick and too expensive.

Do these low-cost aftermarket sales allow you to spend the points at any Wyndham/RCI location, not just the one in which it's deeded?
 

bobinmich

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
124
Reaction score
79
Points
88
Resorts Owned
wyndham
RECIND!!!!! The price is WAY too high and the MF are WAY too HIGH! I paid 91/month for 238k, I bought my 238K contract on ebay for 595 at Kingsgate with 91/mo MF. Seller ALSO paid ALL costs on the transfer
 
Last edited:

Karen G

Moderator
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
9,470
Reaction score
1,984
Points
749
Location
Henderson, NV
Resorts Owned
Once owned these: FirstFairway@Walden X 2; Lawai Beach; ManhattanClub; PuebloBonitoRose; 4 South Africa--now timeshare-free
The fact that you have questions about how it all works is reason enough for you to exercise your right of rescission. Do it now while you still can!

Take some time to do some research for the best timeshare system for you & your family. After you totally understand how things work that deal will still be there no matter what the salesman told you.

But, if you don’t rescind now you’ll be stuck with it. Just compose a simple letter stating that you’re exercising your legal right to rescind your purchase & receive a refund of all monies paid. Be sure all parties who signed the purchase contract also sign the letter. Send it by USPS certified mail to the address in your contract. Keep a copy of the letter along with the post office receipt to prove you rescinded in time.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
2,515
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 154k & Bali Hai 105k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HVC South Bend 1/1
Do these low-cost aftermarket sales allow you to spend the points at any Wyndham/RCI location, not just the one in which it's deeded?
For the most part, yes. I bought 430k pts for $4. I don’t have access to worldmark, but I get access to everything else. I’m not paying $29k for that.
 
Last edited:

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
2,515
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 154k & Bali Hai 105k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HVC South Bend 1/1
FYI, those RCI bonus weeks are only worth $80. You pay a $240 exchange fee for a $320 Last Calls week.
 

Attachments

  • 6EE637C0-D55D-4995-BD2F-E532C150C77D.jpeg
    6EE637C0-D55D-4995-BD2F-E532C150C77D.jpeg
    29.9 KB · Views: 18

Iggyearl

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
808
Reaction score
990
Points
203
Location
Ballston Lake, NY
it makes me wonder if I'm misunderstanding something about aftermarket points or if we just made a dumb decision that I need to try to reverse.
Previous advice is correct. You need to understand that a lot of people want to sell their timeshares for a number of reasons. Kids gone. Change in health. Lost job. Got too old to travel. Timeshare companies want to ignore the resale market, so prices are low. AND, almost all developers who report financial results admit that their "cost of goods sold" is around 50%. It is expensive to support a sales team with commissions, give away monetary "gifts" to prospective customers, and have the support staff to market the product. Resale is it's own market. Since you didn't know that, take a step back. follow the instructions to rescind. Then study the industry on Tug, and make an informed decision. Your rescission rights are protected by law. But they don't last very long. 3 - 10 days, depending on the state. Get crackin'.
 

Kitsune85

newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
9
Reaction score
14
Points
3
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Orlando
For the most part, yes. I bought 430k pts for $4. I don’t have access to worldmark, but I get access to everything else. I’m not paying $29k for that.


Sifting through the sales on eBay and elsewhere, it's not exactly clear (to me anyway, a layman) whether the points are available for Worldmark or whatever else. How can you determine that?

And what is the difference between deeded and right-to-use ownership types?
 

littlestar

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
2,647
Reaction score
367
Points
468
Location
Midwest
Resorts Owned
Disney Vacation Club, Marriott & Wyndham pts
Wyndham has a great product. You have an advantage - you found Tug within your rescission period. We bought our Wyndham points resale for about $1,500 total. At 10 months points are points (think of the DVC 7 month window). Just like DVC, there are a few Wyndham resorts and units where you need the 13 month home resort window. But I have been able to book Wyndham Waikiki Beachwalk and just about any other Wyndham resort I have wanted within the internal Wyndham system at 10 months out or less. An RCI account comes with owning Wyndham points.

We own DVC (some retail and some resale) and I like our resale Wyndham points as much as I like our DVC. But I paid about $1,500 for 413,000 points and most of our points are deeded at Wyndham Grand Desert which has low maintenance fees. Rescind while you can.

Look at the Wyndham resort directory in the sticky at the top of this forum. It explains a lot.
 
Last edited:

amycurl

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
3,154
Points
449
Location
Greensboro, NC
Deeded means you own it forever and forever, until you die. Your heirs can either accept it as part of the inheritance, or deny it.

Right-to-use means it expires after a certain period of time--it goes "poof" and all the financial obligations of year maintenance fees are gone. The DVC you used to own, and many Mexican resorts, are RTU. Most other timeshares in the US, including Wyndham, are deeded.

BUT RESCIND NOW AND ASK THESE QUESTIONS LATER. You have a lot of reading to do, and $29K to save. Once you've rescinded, take your time, read the Wyndham sticky, ask questions...and then buy. RESALE. None of the "benefits" of your purchase from the developer comes to anything like a $29,000 value.
 

Kitsune85

newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
9
Reaction score
14
Points
3
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Orlando
Thanks for the advice, everyone. Looks like I'll be sending a letter of rescission ASAP and trying to read as much as I can. There's just so much information to sift through. Our goal, ultimately, is to take a 1-2 week vacation every year, with enough flexibility to go anywhere in the world, as international (Asian and European) travel is more appealing to us than domestic. One of the selling points of Wyndham was that they have extremely good purchasing power through RCI (compared to DVC and others), which is probably how we would spend a lot of our points. Maybe we're going about this all wrong, however, and I'm open to any advice you folks may have.
 

Karen G

Moderator
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Messages
9,470
Reaction score
1,984
Points
749
Location
Henderson, NV
Resorts Owned
Once owned these: FirstFairway@Walden X 2; Lawai Beach; ManhattanClub; PuebloBonitoRose; 4 South Africa--now timeshare-free
Your first step obviously is to rescind ASAP. Then take your time to educate yourself. You’ve come to the right place here to learn all you can about timeshares & there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here who are willing to answer your questions.

I’m glad you found us in time. Many people don’t.
 

littlestar

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
2,647
Reaction score
367
Points
468
Location
Midwest
Resorts Owned
Disney Vacation Club, Marriott & Wyndham pts
We bought Wyndham resale points because we like their internal Club Wyndham Plus resorts located in the US (with a lot of them located on the Eastern side of the country). Which means I don’t have to make an external trade out thru RCI to go where I want to go. RCI charges a $239 trade fee when you exchange out (not sure if the trade fee is different for international or not?). I never travel internationally to Asia or Europe so I could not tell you if it would be worth it to try and trade Wyndham points for that. Maybe other tug members that travel internationally can chime in on that.
 
Last edited:

Jan M.

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
4,503
Reaction score
5,863
Points
548
Location
Tamarac, FL
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach
Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Woodstone and Summit at Massanutten - Both in RCI weeks used as Wyndham PICs
I posted this in another thread for someone who is looking to buy.

If you don't have a developer purchase you don't get Plus Partners but not having any developer points saves you two cents per thousand points for the program fees that are part of the maintenance fees. The only real advantage to having Plus Partners is that you can book Worldmark resorts with your points but you can't do it online and you pay a $99 fee for each reservation. Other people will tell you that if you want to be able to book the Worldmark resorts you would be better off just buying some resale Worldmark points/credits than spending the money to make a Wyndham developer purchase just so you can book the Worldmark resorts. If you have Plus Partners you can use your points for rental cars, flights, etc. but doing that is a horrible value and waste of your points. Resale points also don't count towards VIP benefits which are being renamed Privileges later this year. Wyndham hasn't announced what the changes will be to the VIP program so to spend the money to buy enough developer points to be any tier of the Privileges program at this point is like buying a pig in a poke. Meaning you don't know what you're getting.

You will pay the program fee on any points in your account. However you wouldn't be paying the minimum program fee on each. Owning more points even though they are in different contracts would put you over the minimum. If any of your points were purchased directly from Wyndham, not resale, then you will pay the Plus Partners rate on all the points in your account.

Program fees for 2020
- Members with Plus Partners - $0.64 per thousand or a minimum of $180. You would need to own a total of 282,000 points to be over the minimum program fee.
- Members without Plus Partners - $0.62 per thousand or a minimum of $160. You would need to own a total of 259,000 points to be over the minimum program fee.

Bali Hai has the lowest maintenance fees but you will pay a higher price to buy any resale points at Bali Hai because of that. Some other resorts with the lowest maintenance fees are Panama City Beach, National Harbor, South Shore, Canterbury, Desert Blue. When you are looking at maintenance fee numbers in something someone is selling make sure you know whether or not the seller is including the program fee in the amount they are listing as the maintenance fees. You can look through the stickies at the top of the Wyndham forum and see threads for Maintenance Fees, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020. You won't find the info on all of the resorts or not current info and no one has posted a comprehensive list so you won't see one. When you look at old numbers keep in mind that the maintenance fees typically go up at least a little every year.

Maintenance fees, including the program fee under $5.25 would be excellent and under $5.75 very good. I personally wouldn't recommend deliberately going for anything with maintenance fees over $6.25-$6.50. The one exception is CWA, Club Wyndham Access, points.

The maintenance fees on CWA points for resale with the program fee are $6.90. You can usually pick up some good deals on CWA points because there are so many listings for them. If you aren't owning a huge number of points the higher maintenance fees on them probably isn't a deal breaker. CWA are not deeded points; what you have is a contract with Wyndham for the use of x number of points a year. There are a lot of resorts in CWA but not every resort is in it and some of those resorts have a limited amount of inventory in CWA. The advantage of owning CWA points is that it gives you ARP, Advance Reservation Priority at all the resorts in the program which gives you the farthest out booking window, 10-13 months. If you are booking at 10 months or less you don't need the ARP that owing CWA points gives you at a large number of resorts.

What I typically recommend to new owners is watching the listings here, on eBay, Sumday Vacations, etc. for points at Grand Desert. The maintenance fees plus the resale program fee for points in building 3 at Grand Desert are $5.58 for 2020. I think points in buildings 1 and 2 would be $5.49. Last year the maintenance fees for buildings 1 and 2 were nine cents less than building 3 so that's what I'm going on. You can usually find listings for 308,000 or 224,000 points at Grand Desert for a decent price and both are a good number of points to have to be able to book the stays you will likely want. I personally would go for 308,000 but for some people the extra $460 in maintenance fees to get the extra 84,000 points may put them over their budget. You will see lots of listings for 154,000 points but you will be pretty limited to what and when you can book with only that many points. Yes you can always buy more points later but you will spend less in the end if you buy a larger number of points to start with.
 
Last edited:

ecwinch

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,736
Reaction score
1,120
Points
748
Location
San Antonio
Resorts Owned
Marriott Harbour Point (HP), Kauai Beach Villas, Riverside Suites, WorldMark Pts (WM), Wyndham Pts
You have but one chance to rescind and a lifetime to buy.

29k is a large amount of money to spend without doing some independent research. Rescind and do the research.
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
2,515
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 154k & Bali Hai 105k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HVC South Bend 1/1
Disney is known as a high end TS product and really the Holy Grail of TS. Although I spent $4 on my Wyndham TS, I’m willing to spend $10k on a Disney TS once the child situation with the wife resolves.

Wyndham TS don’t retain resale value that well. Although Disney TS retail about 50 percent, you are lucky to get even 2 percent with Wyndham. If you try to sell your 300k Bonnett Creek in two weeks, you are lucky to sell for $600. That’s how I got 430k pts for $4.

I love Wyndham but hate their sales practices. Disney generally has four star resorts. Besides Bonnett Creek, Wyndhak generally has three star resorts. RCI has a lot of two star resorts.
 
Last edited:

HitchHiker71

Moderator
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
4,256
Reaction score
3,748
Points
549
Location
The First State
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
CWA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
As many others have said, you have a precious few days to rescind, and the rest of your natural life to decide to buy back in with the developer if you ever so choose. Rescind NOW and do your homework. Here's a good article on what to do and how best to evaluate timesharing:

 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
520
Points
153
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Just curious. 200k at $29k works out to $145/1000. That's a very good developer price unheard of except via telesales. It's hard to believe they offered this at a retail location. What's the catch?
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
2,515
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 154k & Bali Hai 105k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HVC South Bend 1/1
Just curious. 200k at $29k works out to $145/1000. That's a very good developer price unheard of except via telesales. It's hard to believe they offered this at a retail location. What's the catch?
Likely paying in full in cash.
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
520
Points
153
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Likely paying in full in cash.

I doubt that makes a difference. They actually make more money with financing.
If the numbers are right, this is a good deal for developer purchase if OP has any interest in acquiring VIP status and benefits thereof.
 

jwalk03

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 3, 2016
Messages
3,670
Reaction score
2,814
Points
348
Location
Ohio
It’s still not a good deal even at that “low” price unless you are also using it to PIC to get to VIP, and even then likely not worth it.
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
520
Points
153
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
It’s still not a good deal even at that “low” price unless you are also using it to PIC to get to VIP, and even then likely not worth it.

With PICs, he will be Permanent VIP-GOLD, if OP is after VIP benefits.
In that case, he is better off rescinding now. Then learn about PIC Plus and go back and do a new deal with 2 PIC Plus contracts for 508K points.
 

bobinmich

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
124
Reaction score
79
Points
88
Resorts Owned
wyndham
With PICs, he will be Permanent VIP-GOLD, if OP is after VIP benefits.
In that case, he is better off rescinding now. Then learn about PIC Plus and go back and do a new deal with 2 PIC Plus contracts for 508K points.

Very good advice by SNA
 

Grammarhero

Official TUGBBS Rescission Master
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
3,102
Reaction score
2,515
Points
399
Location
Washington, DC Area
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Grand Desert 154k & Bali Hai 105k, VV Williamsburg 4L/4 & 2/2
Former: Wyndham 276k, HVC South Bend 1/1
With PICs, he will be Permanent VIP-GOLD, if OP is after VIP benefits.
In that case, he is better off rescinding now. Then learn about PIC Plus and go back and do a new deal with 2 PIC Plus contracts for 508K points.
If OP wants to go to Asia and Europe, not sure if Wyndham is the best product, even with VIPP.
 
Top