• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $14,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $14 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Have visitors finally overstayed their welcome in Hawaii?

"Roger"

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,782
Reaction score
375
Points
318
CNN story with the above headline.

Link
 

Rjbeach2003

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
160
Reaction score
91
Points
138
Location
United States
Interesting. Because a great number of travelers don't use common sense. I don't even those who view Hawaii as a theme park, abide by rules and laws. There are economic forces in Hawaii, the hospitality industry, etc that want more and more tourists coming to the islands.
It's just amazing how tone deaf a great number of people are with regard to visiting anywhere. Many of the complaints Hawaii residents have can be echoed elsewhere in the world.

While harassing dolphins, turtles and other wildlife, there are Hawaii based companies that offer tours that do just that. I have seen people getting close to turtles and seen photos of people sitting on them. Only once, on the Big Island, was there a Park Ranger there to tell people to stay away from the turtles and explain why.

How many ads have you seen for "swim with dolphins"? Again leading visitors to believe that doing so it a violation. The tour companies don't worry because there is little enforcement. Then comes the legitimate complaints about vacation rentals in residential areas. I know Airbnb and VRBO are popular and a way for folks living on the mainland to afford a place in Hawaii, but the proliferation is destroying neighborhoods and taking housing options away from permanent residents.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
12,032
Reaction score
2,177
Points
648
Location
Belly-View, WA
Sadly, I think I need to concur with decisions such as limiting the number of visitors at Ha'ena Park in Kauai'i.

In Zihua now, which we appreciate as a less heavily trafficked locale than Puerto Vallarta where we often stayed in the past. (And which we gravitated to after being put off by Los Cabos.) Zihua is probably much like PV was 30 or 40 years ago.

But as we look over the bay at the hills, and all of the new developments on the beaches, we presume that Zihua/Ixtapa is turning the next PV.
 
Last edited:

easyrider

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
8,377
Reaction score
2,346
Points
498
Location
Palm Springs of Washinton
Resorts Owned
Worldmark * * Villa Del Palmar UVCI * * Vacation Internationale*
That really isn't news is it ? Most of the people living in Hawaii dislike everything about tourists except their money, imo. Many "born on Island" residents can't even afford to live in Hawaii anymore.

Bill
 

teehlee

Guest
Joined
Feb 21, 2020
Messages
1
Reaction score
3
Points
1
Resorts Owned
Discovery Vacations Network, The Gardens at West Maui
Tour companies that conduct activities that are damaging to the land or wildlife are not run by Native Hawaiians. Also, it's so untrue and deeply offensive to say that Hawaiians want tourists money. Most Hawaiians (Kanaka, not "Hawaii-born" people) would be glad to drastically reduce the foreign population including tourists and non-Hawaiians who move there. We don't care about tourist money. Hawaii is worth more than that. We don't care for mainland and foreign companies exploiting and destroying the islands for their profit while actual natives are forced to live on the beach in their cars. Honestly, tourism has destroyed Oahu and is now destroying Maui.

If you visit Hawaii, deal only with companies owned by Native Hawaiians and you will have a completely different experience.
 

Pathways

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
564
Reaction score
339
Points
173
Location
Indiana
Tour companies that conduct activities that are damaging to the land or wildlife are not run by Native Hawaiians. Also, it's so untrue and deeply offensive to say that Hawaiians want tourists money. Most Hawaiians (Kanaka, not "Hawaii-born" people) would be glad to drastically reduce the foreign population including tourists and non-Hawaiians who move there. We don't care about tourist money. Hawaii is worth more than that. We don't care for mainland and foreign companies exploiting and destroying the islands for their profit while actual natives are forced to live on the beach in their cars. Honestly, tourism has destroyed Oahu and is now destroying Maui.

If you visit Hawaii, deal only with companies owned by Native Hawaiians and you will have a completely different experience.
Anyone who uses the term 'we' in an opinion piece as though they speak for an entire group makes the entire statement suspect. People are 'forced to live on the beach in their cars'? Struggling to buy that.
 

MLR

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
167
Reaction score
39
Points
138
Location
S.W. Illinois
I agree that it is more and more difficult for those born and raised in Hawaii to actually LIVE in Hawaii. But not everyone wants to live as the ancient Hawaiians lived (totally off the land) etc. As far as I can see, most people living in Hawaii make their living in some way or form from tourism. Maybe a 'study' could be done to find out what would happen to people who live in Hawaii if tourism was drastically cut.

We love visiting Hawaii and we we try to respect the land and its people by staying stay on the paths - we don't take anything but photos - we don't swim with dolphins, or try to touch wildlife. We pack out what we pack in and onto the beaches. We own timeshare there and will miss it when we are too old to travel. I know there is still animosity about how the land was 'taken' - but that isn't my fault. It is sad to think that many resent our visiting their island.

I have seen some people living in tents in parks - but could not tell what nationality they were. Doubt they were all 'Native Hawaiians.' I know land prices are crazy there and rent is high and many have to work more than one job to afford to live there. But the same is true in CA and in many places on mainland USA.
 

CaliSunshine

Guest
Joined
Feb 10, 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
41
Points
18
Overtourism is a problem across the world, whether it's Hawaii, or Everest, or Venice. People are getting richer around the world, and they're taking more vacations. The sad fact is that when it's just a couple of rich obnoxious tourists it's one thing, but when it becomes a large amount of middle class obnoxious tourists, the system and the environment strains to cope.
 

MLR

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
167
Reaction score
39
Points
138
Location
S.W. Illinois
Overtourism is a problem across the world, whether it's Hawaii, or Everest, or Venice. People are getting richer around the world, and they're taking more vacations. The sad fact is that when it's just a couple of rich obnoxious tourists it's one thing, but when it becomes a large amount of middle class obnoxious tourists, the system and the environment strains to cope.
Please define 'obnoxious' - is just BEING there obnoxious? Just wondering. We have always thought we were being respectful tourists - wherever we go. Maybe just leaving home is enough to count as obnoxious. That would be sad.

We always subscribed to Mark Twain's famous quote:
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
 

CaliSunshine

Guest
Joined
Feb 10, 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
41
Points
18
I think obnoxious in the sense that people tend to behave differently when on vacation than at home, added to the fact that people in different places behave differently and have different expectations, so there will always be more friction when dealing with a tourist than with someone who's been living in an area for a long time.
 

Icc5

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,693
Reaction score
278
Points
294
Location
Los Altos, California (Northern Ca.)
I think lots of us born in California feel the exact same way. I know my family and our extended family were all born here and now we're lucky if we can even get together for a birthday or the holidays. Traffic is so bad we used to feel all the traffic was in Southern California but for the past 25 years or so we are right in the middle of it. None of us work in tech or make the big bucks. Kids can't afford to buy a house or rent an apartment without several roommates. Our house value keeps going up but doesn't do anything for us except raise our taxes.
My wife and I are both retired and have always planned on living our lives here where we grew up. We are fine with visitors but please don't live here or get a job here. Maybe if the tech industry would leave we could go back to a great place for families that are from here.
 

klpca

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2006
Messages
5,695
Reaction score
3,391
Points
499
Location
CA
Resorts Owned
SDO, Quarter House, Seapointe, Coronado Beach, HGVC Bay Club, Carlsbad Inn
I think lots of us born in California feel the exact same way. I know my family and our extended family were all born here and now we're lucky if we can even get together for a birthday or the holidays. Traffic is so bad we used to feel all the traffic was in Southern California but for the past 25 years or so we are right in the middle of it. None of us work in tech or make the big bucks. Kids can't afford to buy a house or rent an apartment without several roommates. Our house value keeps going up but doesn't do anything for us except raise our taxes.
My wife and I are both retired and have always planned on living our lives here where we grew up. We are fine with visitors but please don't live here or get a job here. Maybe if the tech industry would leave we could go back to a great place for families that are from here.
I haven't been to the beach in the summer for years. Parking is a nightmare then you get there and the crowds are obnoxious. I had an interaction with some visitors from another state a few years ago. They essentially told me that they paid a lot of money to vacation here and that they were entitled to things like parking because they had "paid good money for this". (We weren't fighting or anything like that, just discussing the parking issue while were were doing a boat tour of the bay). I have to say that that comment took me aback. Just because you spent a couple thousand dollars to stay a week certainly doesn't entitle you to anything more than any other person. I can imagine Hawaiians are hearing a lot of that kind of crazy talk. For most folks, Hawaii is a splurge and there are some who believe that the amount of dollars spent somehow equates to the amount of things that you are entitled to. Yes at the Four Seasons, no at a public beach or trails.

When you live in a tourist destination city having an influx of visitors brings in dollars, but it absolutely changes the day-to-day experience for the residents and not in a good way. (I'm looking at you rental car drivers who cross four lanes of the freeway to take an exit instead of driving to the next exit and circling back). I used to post helpful hints about our city on Tripadvisor but no more. I keep my local favorites (mostly hiking trails) to myself and if someone asks for recommendations I give them the same suggestions that are on most typical sites. Fair enough for everyone. I don't seek out "local" experiences when I travel either. We stay in tourist areas and I am fine with that. Neighborhoods are for neighbors, not tourists imo. People need to be able to live their lives in some kind of peace and I can have a great trip staying in a timeshare somewhere. I think that it is all about mutual respect.
 

pacman

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
425
Reaction score
22
Points
228
Location
BC
I think if visitors really had overstayed our welcome, we would see it in the general attitude of the people there. We've been to Hawaii probably 30-40 times, we go twice every year, just got back yesterday. We have always felt the people there very friendly. It seems genuine, not fake. I like them. I don't think this would be the case if they disliked tourists. If they were tired of tourists, we would sense it. There are alway exceptions, but our experience has had very very few exceptions. We travel a lot, and have experienced the negative attitude, so do know what that is about (ie Bahamas).
 

Fredflintstone

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
2,012
Points
274
Resorts Owned
Rent only

Henry M.

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,902
Reaction score
198
Points
273
Location
Austin, TX
While I use AirBnB occasionally, mostly in Europe, I think it disrupts the housing situation for locals. It would be one thing if someone truly opens up their own home to others, but it is quite another when half a neighborhood switches from providing local housing to running a de-facto hotel business for short term rentals that cost many times the monthly long-term rental rate. I wouldn't like the neighborhood where I live to turn into AirBnB heaven, with the corresponding transient traffic, and don't expect others would like it in their back yard either. We're seeing it locally in Austin, where people in the east side of the city can no longer afford just the property taxes on property they outright own because of gentrification and a rising short term rental boom.

Regarding overstaying a welcome, I think there are a small minority of visitors that are simply obnoxious, with no regard for others or local property. However, the sheer number of even the most respectful visitors can overwhelm the local facilities. I think books, like the Revealed line for each of the islands, are great for first time visitors, but they pretty much ruin the spots they highlight because they become over-run with people, whether those people are respectful or not. It only takes a few hooligans to make it such that all tourists become unwelcome. Just like with housing, I wouldn't like hordes of people hiking along the stream in my back yard, regardless of how nice they all were. Throw in a bad apple even once a week, and I'd do what I can to prevent any tourist from coming into my neighborhood.
 
Last edited:

slip

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
3,323
Points
349
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
Resorts Owned
Pono Kai, 20 wks: Maui Schooner, 1.5 wks; WaveCrest Condo, Molokai, HI
https://www.kitv.com/story/41834551/maui-county-considering-ban-on-all-shortterm-vacation-rentals
Already in effect on Molokai apparently. I wonder what their definition of "short term" may be.
I believe it was anything under 6 months but not totally sure. The problem they were trying to avoid on Molokai was people building and buying houses/second homes and just renting them out when they were not using them. It was an issue with neighborhoods being disrupted by these rentals. So they completely got rid of them and they are only allowed in the zones meant for short term rentals, so the hotel and local condo communities.

My condo is located in the zone for rentals and now that no homes can be rented we will see what that means for visitors to Molokai. I am guessing it will deter people from coming if they need more accommodations than a condo can provide. From what I am hearing, there are going to be more houses listed since some were bought with rental income as a big part of the purchase.
 

lynne

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
621
Reaction score
127
Points
253
Location
Kamuela, HI (from Long Island, NY)
Resorts Owned
Pacific Grove Plaza
I believe it was anything under 6 months but not totally sure. The problem they were trying to avoid on Molokai was people building and buying houses/second homes and just renting them out when they were not using them. It was an issue with neighborhoods being disrupted by these rentals. So they completely got rid of them and they are only allowed in the zones meant for short term rentals, so the hotel and local condo communities.

My condo is located in the zone for rentals and now that no homes can be rented we will see what that means for visitors to Molokai. I am guessing it will deter people from coming if they need more accommodations than a condo can provide. From what I am hearing, there are going to be more houses listed since some were bought with rental income as a big part of the purchase.
Here on the Big Island these short term rentals that are not in resort designated areas are an issue. These homes are large with private pools, many bedrooms, an occasional tennis court and when large groups are here, they are on vacation and do not treat the property as a neighborhood home where family live full time. Between the noise, multiple vehicles racing around our roads and complete disregard for the area that they are renting in, we were very happy to see that the county in Hawaii has disallowed these rentals.

There are many large homes in resort designated areas that can accommodate large groups. It is very unsettling to live in a non-resort neighborhood and a revolving group of strangers next to our home. With that said, homes that do not have resort amenities (private pools, tennis courts...) have a different type of vacation renter as they will go out during the day and explore the island and will come back to the rental without creating an party atmosphere 24/7 during their stay.
 

slip

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
3,323
Points
349
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
Resorts Owned
Pono Kai, 20 wks: Maui Schooner, 1.5 wks; WaveCrest Condo, Molokai, HI
Here on the Big Island these short term rentals that are not in resort designated areas are an issue. These homes are large with private pools, many bedrooms, an occasional tennis court and when large groups are here, they are on vacation and do not treat the property as a neighborhood home where family live full time. Between the noise, multiple vehicles racing around our roads and complete disregard for the area that they are renting in, we were very happy to see that the county in Hawaii has disallowed these rentals.

There are many large homes in resort designated areas that can accommodate large groups. It is very unsettling to live in a non-resort neighborhood and a revolving group of strangers next to our home. With that said, homes that do not have resort amenities (private pools, tennis courts...) have a different type of vacation renter as they will go out during the day and explore the island and will come back to the rental without creating an party atmosphere 24/7 during their stay.
Yes, pretty much the same as Molokai then, except Molokai decided they didn’t want any renting in the residential areas and I definitely understand it.
 

bbodb1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
2,689
Reaction score
2,290
Points
298
Location
High radiation belt of the Northern Hemisphere
Resorts Owned
RCI Weeks: LaCosta Beach Club, RCI Points: Oakmont Resort, Vacation Village at Parkway. Wyndham: CWA and La Belle Maison, and WorldMark.
I have a feeling the answer to this question just became a whole lot different.....
 

MLR

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
167
Reaction score
39
Points
138
Location
S.W. Illinois
I have a feeling the answer to this question just became a whole lot different.....
I agree. Sadly, those who depend on tourism for their livelihoods - and that is a VERY LARGE NUMBER in Hawaii - are going to find it very difficult in the short term and likely for the long term. Everyone is going to be hurt by the physical as well as fiscal effects of this virus. Be safe everyone.
 

LisaRex

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
6,750
Reaction score
253
Points
368
Location
'burbs of Cincinnati, OH
Resorts Owned
Used to own: WKORV-N; SVV - Bella
Have y'all tried to visit any of our State/National Parks in the summer recently? Egads. We visited Antelope Canyon a few years back, and while sitting in an outside diner, could hear at least 7 different languages. It was wonderful and terrible at the same time.

Recently, I've seen tons of articles about destinations experiencing tourist trauma before this pandemic, including Italy, Easter Island, and even Iceland.

It's the age old battle between preservation and development...and striking a balance between an industry that is healthy for your economy and one that tips the balance towards being destructive. Obviously, the best place to accomplish this balance is by restricting development. No place to stay = no new visitors. Once you build all these mega-hotels, it's hard to put the cork back in the genie bottle.

I do think that COVID19 may stifle short term tourism to foreign countries, which might help reset things for a bit, but in the long term, LOCAL politicians should be held accountable for keeping tourism to a manageable size, for the sake of the locals and the ecology.
 

Kapolei

Guest
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
386
Reaction score
171
Points
103
Hawaii needs to be labeled the place that dodged the bullet. If we get through this without widespread impact, tourism will surge here. People will come back in droves as this will be one of the best, safest places to be. On the other hand, if Hawaii turns into New York or Italy we are in for some real trouble. I think we will know where we are headed in the next couple of weeks.
 

Harry

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
774
Reaction score
18
Points
228
Location
Az."Lawful:(adj.)The will of the judge"
We are frequent visitors to beautiful Hawaii since 1985. We are fortunate to have met many who have been born and raised there. I go out of my way to speak to locals, and a homeless gentleman I met living at the new Hilton in Kehei, was more informative about the development than anyone else.
Our Grand Canyon in Arizona has experienced many disrespectful and careless tourists. Luckily the Rangers and volunteer groups keep a watchful eye out for them. I have noticed more and more volunteers in Hawaii keeping watch over monk seals and sea turtles. They deserve a word of thanks.
 

Luanne

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
13,708
Reaction score
4,431
Points
548
Location
New Mexico
We are frequent visitors to beautiful Hawaii since 1985. We are fortunate to have met many who have been born and raised there. I go out of my way to speak to locals, and a homeless gentleman I met living at the new Hilton in Kehei, was more informative about the development than anyone else.
Our Grand Canyon in Arizona has experienced many disrespectful and careless tourists. Luckily the Rangers and volunteer groups keep a watchful eye out for them. I have noticed more and more volunteers in Hawaii keeping watch over monk seals and sea turtles. They deserve a word of thanks.
I'm curious. You mentioned a homeless gentleman living at the new Hilton in Kihei. Since there is no building there is he just living somewhere on the grounds?
 
Top