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Has anyone else noticed this?

rboesl

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Vidanta Grand Mayan
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Grandview Las Vegas
Vacation Village at Bonaventure
We are members of Vidanta's Grand Collection. My wife & I have been discussing going to one of the Vidanta properties next year. As a result I was reviewing all the paperwork we received from them to be sure I understood what we were required to do to make a reservation. During this review I noticed some slight changes in terminology between the up front portion of the contract (the 1st 10 years) and the renewable portion of the contract (years 11 to 100).

In the 1st 10 years contract they specifically state it's a "Right to Use" contract, the fee is specifically called a "Usage Fee" and states that at least one usage fee MUST be paid by a certain date.

The years 11 to 100 contract has dropped the term "Right to Use" and specifically calls the fee a "Reservation Fee" that must be paid when making any reservation. It also states that to renew I must pay a Reservation Fee within 3 months of the expiration of the 1st 10 years contract.

Based on this seemingly minor differences I wonder if there's someone that can answer the following:
  1. For years 11 to 100 is it no longer in a Right to Use situation and we are therefore required to pay the Reservation Fee each year?
  2. It says the "Reservation Fee" is defined on the cover page of the contract but the only fee defined there is the Usage Fee. While it doesn't say so are the terms "Usage Fee" and "Reservation Fee" interchangeable? This would seem unusual to me because everything I've read says Vidanta is very careful to live by the letter of the contract.
  3. If I pay the Reservation Fee to renew do I get a week to reserve for my fee or do I have to pay an additional Reservation Fee to reserve a week's stay?

Any help in clarifying this would be greatly appreciated. I really don't want to have to attend another Owners Update just to get this clarified.
 

pittle

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Interesting observation. I just checked mine and it says the same. Also, the No Pay unless You Go is attached to the Registered weeks and not the Residence weeks. :( So, it sounds like you have to pay each year starting with year 11.

The Senior Certificates also state they can only be used by Registered weeks, so when these become Residence weeks you cannot go for free unless you get some Addendum. :( If this is true, then a lot of us will only get to use a few years of the Senior Certificates :(. If this is the case will most likely not renew for the 11 year deal and enjoy the few 1/2 price and free years that we will be able to use before it is time to renew.
 

Eric B

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I’ll have to go back and look at mine again, but if you have to pay in year 11+, you’d have to pay in 1-10 for the extra 2 weeks on the 100 year contract. My recollection is that it doesn’t have a mandatory payment date on that one, just on the registered week one.

No idea about the senior certificates; we didn’t get in early enough to have them.
 

Eric B

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We are members of Vidanta's Grand Collection. My wife & I have been discussing going to one of the Vidanta properties next year. As a result I was reviewing all the paperwork we received from them to be sure I understood what we were required to do to make a reservation. During this review I noticed some slight changes in terminology between the up front portion of the contract (the 1st 10 years) and the renewable portion of the contract (years 11 to 100).

In the 1st 10 years contract they specifically state it's a "Right to Use" contract, the fee is specifically called a "Usage Fee" and states that at least one usage fee MUST be paid by a certain date.

The years 11 to 100 contract has dropped the term "Right to Use" and specifically calls the fee a "Reservation Fee" that must be paid when making any reservation. It also states that to renew I must pay a Reservation Fee within 3 months of the expiration of the 1st 10 years contract.

Based on this seemingly minor differences I wonder if there's someone that can answer the following:
  1. For years 11 to 100 is it no longer in a Right to Use situation and we are therefore required to pay the Reservation Fee each year?
  2. It says the "Reservation Fee" is defined on the cover page of the contract but the only fee defined there is the Usage Fee. While it doesn't say so are the terms "Usage Fee" and "Reservation Fee" interchangeable? This would seem unusual to me because everything I've read says Vidanta is very careful to live by the letter of the contract.
  3. If I pay the Reservation Fee to renew do I get a week to reserve for my fee or do I have to pay an additional Reservation Fee to reserve a week's stay?

Any help in clarifying this would be greatly appreciated. I really don't want to have to attend another Owners Update just to get this clarified.
Ok, I finally got around to looking at my contracts.

1. For the 100 year one, the clause that governs the payment of fees is titled "Reservation Fee" and says that I have to pay the reservation fee for each week reserved. For the 10 year one, the clause that governs the payment of fees is titled "Fees" and says that I have to pay the current usage fee every other year; this is the one that is typically modified by addendum. Because the 100 year one already says I only have to pay for each week reserved, there isn't a reason for it to be modified by addendum to make it only payable upon usage - it is already set up that way.

2. I actually have two separate pages that I would call "cover pages." One lists the initial reservation fee, which is the same as the usage fee. I stapled that one into my 100 year contract. The other one lists the initial usage fee and I stapled that one into the 10 year contract.

3. The clause titled "Term" on the 100 year one says that there is an extension fee equal to one then current reservation fee that is due within the 3 months after the expiration of the initial 10 year term. So what I will be paying is the "extension fee" not a "reservation fee." I don't expect them to give me a week's stay for that. By the way, it's multiplied by the number of weeks in the 100 year contract, which I believe is typically two, so it's really twice the then current reservation fee. In my opinion, the contract doesn't really say you get a week so I wouldn't count on it, but it never hurts to ask when you contact them to extend. They might do it in the off season, but I'd be surprised if you could get it in February.

Interesting observation. I just checked mine and it says the same. Also, the No Pay unless You Go is attached to the Registered weeks and not the Residence weeks. :( So, it sounds like you have to pay each year starting with year 11.

The Senior Certificates also state they can only be used by Registered weeks, so when these become Residence weeks you cannot go for free unless you get some Addendum. :( If this is true, then a lot of us will only get to use a few years of the Senior Certificates :(. If this is the case will most likely not renew for the 11 year deal and enjoy the few 1/2 price and free years that we will be able to use before it is time to renew.
You could always upgrade and get a new batch of registered weeks.... ;)
 

rboesl

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Vidanta Grand Mayan
Villa del Arco Cobo
Grandview Las Vegas
Vacation Village at Bonaventure
Eric, thanks for getting back. It does seem there are some subtle differences in our contracts but for the most part they are same.

I hadn't noticed before that there are definitely 2 different cover pages. They looked so similar that I didn't notice the differences before. It looks like the cover page for the 10 yr contract defines a Usage Fee and covers just 1 week. It appears the difference in our 10 yr contracts is that yours says you have to pay the usage fee every other year. Mine specifies a specific date by which I must pay a usage fee. It says nothing about every other year.

I did see that on my other cover page it does state 2 weeks and defines an "Initial Reservation Fee". The verbiage appears to be a match for what you have. Fee paid for each reservation. Extension fee is 1 reservation fee for each unit defined in the cover page. I guess when the time comes I'll see what I can get for my extension fee, besides an extension, if anything.

I did notice one other difference between the 2 cover pages. The one for the 10 yr contract is titled "Grand Entertainment Collection Vacation Club" while the for the 100 yr contract is titled "Grand Entertainment Collection Weeks Program".
 

pittle

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This statement is in the Waiver of Mandatory Maintenance Fees (No Pay Unless You Go) Addendum. It says Registered weeks. Registered weeks become Residence weeks in year 11.

upload_2018-8-23_6-28-28.png


I doubt that Hubs will want to pay them more money to upgrade when he is 77 - that would be a real gamble to add 10 more years! We wil just be glad to get 4 weeks and 1/2 price and 4 weeks for free before having to pay the Renewal fee. We have 2 Registered weeks each year right now.
 

bogey21

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This would all drive me nuts. It is the reason I used to own 6 Fixed Week/Fixed Units at 6 different Resorts. None of all these mental gymnastics. All I had to do was show up and enjoy my stay...

George
 

mikenk

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Just a few comments from my experience:
- The waiver of usage fee unless you use was an addendum applied to the 10 year registered weeks. This was the same for all the golf, massages, senior discount and all the other addenda us old timers got. Many also had an addendum that all of the addenda would transfer to one of the residence weeks after the 10 years. Unfortunately, they ruled in my case that the Senior discount addendum was actually a certificate not an addendum - so was good for only the 10 years. For that reason, I did make some contract changes a couple of years ago to renew the 10 year Registered weeks; looking back, that was well worth it for me.

- For the residence weeks, there is no need for an addendum to waive usage fee unless you use as the contract specifically states that you only pay a reservation fee when you actually reserve. The extension fee for getting the residence weeks has nothing to do with reservations. At the end of my 10 year registered weeks in 2026, I am quite sure if still around, I couldn't care less what the kids choose to do. My guess is they will keep as all my addenda still apply for them except for the senior certificate.

- As to why Vidanta set up this confusing system, I am quite sure it is all about inventory management to allow them to sell relentlessly and not have to align units available to units sold. What they sell is only 10 year contracts although they promise 100 years (but not guaranteed) to the buyers. While on the surface, this would seem to be a real concern to us buyers, so far the reality is they keep building at a pace that seems to be sustainable - time will tell.

Mike
 
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T-Dot-Traveller

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We are members of Vidanta's Grand Collection. My wife & I have been discussing going to one of the Vidanta properties next year. ... During this review I noticed some slight changes in terminology between the up front portion of the contract (the 1st 10 years) and the renewable portion of the contract (years 11 to 100).

In the 1st 10 years contract they specifically state it's a "Right to Use" contract, .....

Any help in clarifying this would be greatly appreciated. I really don't want to have to attend another Owners Update just to get this clarified.
IMO - as long as Vidanta keeps building & growing -you will have good access and usage .

That said - I am increasingly glad we have never " upgraded " . Our 2006 Mayan Palace registered week remains a registered week until renewal in 13 years and if we choose to pay 5 x MF
it will renew as a registered week .

RE : the whole "registered" week thing : it is one of the (needed) Mexican ingredients in the Vidanta RTU sausage making recipe .
They make an excellent TimeShare sausage .They have continued to improve the product while reducing the amount of this ingredient in each contract (for reasons unspecified )**
( with credit to TUG member -tschwa2 for the metaphor )

** I wrote this post without seeing Mike’s post above (posted 15 minutes earlier )
His outline of the “reasons”are probably a very accurate conjecture IMO .
 
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T-Dot-Traveller

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The Senior Certificates also state they can only be used by Registered weeks, so when these become Residence weeks you cannot go for free unless you get some Addendum. :( If this is true, then a lot .......
In Feb at the Mayan Palace PV - Marina - there seem to be a contingent of senior certificate
owners . Some likely still have 25:year cycle Mayan Palace contracts .

No wonder Vidanta restarted active sales presentations on -site at MP-PV Marina . .The goal is likely to upsell them into a 10 year contract .
 
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pittle

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In Feb at the Mayan Palace PV - Marina - there seem to be a contingent of senior certificate owners . Some likely still have 25:year cycle Mayan Palace contracts .

No wonder Vidanta restarted active sales presentations on -site at MP-PV Marina . .The goal is likely to upsell them into a 10 year contract .
Yes - It has crossed my mind that maybe we should have just kept paying the 5 year fees and our Sr. Certs would out live us. But, we did not need 6 weeks any more. We only had to pay MF on one week however, but we also had at least one 5-year renewal fee each year. We felt just paid those in advance and still only pay whenever we go. We will use our few free and discounted weeks and reassess before paying the renewal fee. We could use the renewal fee to pay for bonus weeks at Buganvilias or VRBO wherever we want to go. We still have a PBEB week that has reasonable MF and with SFX, we get good exchanges.

Vidanta has provided great vacations for our family for 20 years, but while we love going, we have observed the 80+ group having more difficulty maneuvering the huge RM & NV properties. We are not sure that we will want to do that. We have 5 years to decide.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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Yes - It has crossed my mind that maybe we should have just kept paying the 5 year fees and our Sr. Certs would out live us. But, we did not need 6 weeks any more. ......
Vidanta has provided great vacations for our family for 20 years, but while we love going, we have observed the 80+ group having more difficulty maneuvering the huge RM & NV properties. We are not sure that we will want to do that. We have 5 years to decide.
Hi Phyllis ,
A couple of years ago while at the Sea Garden NV we heard of a gentleman who spent 5 weeks at the SG-NV using his Grand Luxxe membership .
I don't know what the cost was per week or how his contract worked .

Zib - has posted that they liked the scale of the SG for mobility reasons .
- although her recent post was that their grandkids wanted the lazy river so they were going to use the Grand Mayan this fall.

If in 5 years you are both healthy and mobile - you could always try to negotiate a limited senior certificate . ( certain times & locations) based on paying the renewal for 10 years .
I think Vidanta would prefer no senior cert. use in Jan / Feb / March - when they could fill all the units anyway .
Shoulder seasons may not be as big an issue .
 
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