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Governor Says No Quarantine if Vaccinated

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csodjd

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Not much detail provided, but still big news if you ask me. This is how the Governor concluded a live interview this morning:

Will you allow people who are vaccinated to travel to Hawaii without getting tested or having to quarantine?

Yes, the vaccinations does give us another opportunity. We’re trying to understand exactly how people will be able to provide proof that they’ve been vaccinated and clearly, those who have received the vaccinations, pose no risk to having COVID-19 or infecting others. So we are working and incorporating those who get vaccinated into our Safe Travels program. And as more and more people across the country and around the world get vaccinated, that will make a huge difference for our visitor industry.

 

zentraveler

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Actually I think the "no risk" is too strongly worded for the data (they are very effective but not 100%, asymptomatic transmission possibilities still unclear), but overall probably a good policy if they still encourage other measures (masks, distance) until we get herd immunity. Or better data once the vaccine is in wide use.
 

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I, personally think they need to be careful relying on people being vaccinated to keep Covid out. We have no understanding of just exactly what level of protection the vaccine is going to provide. Will people still be able to carry the virus and transmit it to others even if they’ve had the vaccine? There are so many questions surrounding it that I would be hesitant to rely on that.

And as much as I hate to say it, people may forge paperwork saying they’ve gotten it even if they haven’t. There have already been reports of people forging test results.

I’m not sure what the answer for Hawaii is but I feel for them. They have to do something to kick start their economy again.
 

rickandcindy23

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I, personally think they need to be careful relying on people being vaccinated to keep Covid out. We have no understanding of just exactly what level of protection the vaccine is going to provide. Will people still be able to carry the virus and transmit it to others even if they’ve had the vaccine? There are so many questions surrounding it that I would be hesitant to rely on that.

And as much as I hate to say it, people may forge paperwork saying they’ve gotten it even if they haven’t. There have already been reports of people forging test results.

I’m not sure what the answer for Hawaii is but I feel for them. They have to do something to kick start their economy again.
This is the question I have as well.
 

zentraveler

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Actually I think the "no risk" is too strongly worded for the data (they are very effective but not 100%, asymptomatic transmission possibilities still unclear), but overall probably a good policy if they still encourage other measures (masks, distance) until we get herd immunity. Or better data once the vaccine is in wide use.

And just to clarify, I do think this is a very good policy for them, the economy, and a message to everyone that vaccines are safe and effective and will [eventually] allow for life again.

I just think - and they well might soon - still urge the necessary precautions for the medium term before herd immunity.
 

csodjd

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One of the things they are discussing is placing high-risk of exposure to those in tourism in priority for vaccination position. If you have visitors that are vaccinated and they largely interact with employees that are vaccinated there is little chance of vaccination failure causing infection.

It is uncertain in that the clinical studies are not yet done, but widely believed in the medical community that vaccination will protect against being able to infect others. Think of other vaccinations, from polio to measles to mumps to flu... they all protect against GETTING sick and getting others sick. It is probably a good bet this will also.

However, the issue here is quarantine. Visitors may (will probably) still be required to wear masks and socially distance until a large percentage of the community is vaccinated. But, that may be done by summer, so we're not really talking about much longer.
 

GaryDouglas

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It would be wise for everyone to remember that this disease almost solely goes after low hanging fruit, that being those that already have one or more life threatening conditions, affectionately known as co-morbidities, or those who have attained a certain age. If you look at the CDC numbers, that starts to be noted after 45, but really hits at appreciable numbers after 65. Once all of these people have been vaccinated, the fatalities will drop precipitously. The higher hanging fruit can comingle as they please and the consequences will be acceptable. Remembering that we have all lived our lives with the knowledge of risk, whether it be driving a car, flying or being on the wrong side of town. The same goes with communicable diseases. It will never be risk free, but an acceptable level should be the goal, not risk free.
 

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Everything I’ve been reading about the current vaccines says it protects the vaccinated person against serious health problems from the virus, but does nothing to prevent transmission of the virus to others. Not sure where I read the additional explanation that this is typical of most vaccines. If this is true, vaccines will not protect the unvaccinated public.
 

dioxide45

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Everything I’ve been reading about the current vaccines says it protects the vaccinated person against serious health problems from the virus, but does nothing to prevent transmission of the virus to others. Not sure where I read the additional explanation that this is typical of most vaccines. If this is true, vaccines will not protect the unvaccinated public.
Then what is the purpose of herd immunity? Why would catching and having antibodies from the actual virus be different than the vaccine? How have some vaccines completely eliminated certain viruses like smallpox. Somehow someone should be carrying it and passing it on to those that were not immunized after 1972. The whole purposes of herd immunity is to protect the small percentage of people that can't get vaccines.
 

Polly Metallic

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Then what is the purpose of herd immunity? Why would catching and having antibodies from the actual virus be different than the vaccine? How have some vaccines completely eliminated certain viruses like smallpox. Somehow someone should be carrying it and passing it on to those that were not immunized after 1972. The whole purposes of herd immunity is to protect the small percentage of people that can't get vaccines.

I wish this virus was the kind where once you’ve had it you can’t get it again, or once you’ve been vaccinated you can’t get it again or pass it to others. But they’re saying immunity may only last for a matter of months whether from vaccines or from developing antibodies from the virus itself. If that’s the case, people will need to be vaccinated yearly as many folks do with the flu. Beats me. I keep reading, but it’s so hard to absorb it all, particularly when “experts” often seem to be at odds with one another and still figuring things out as time passes.
 

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I keep reading, but it’s so hard to absorb it all, particularly when “experts” often seem to be at odds with one another and still figuring things out as time passes.

Seems we are back to bashing the experts for not knowing more again. Typical TUG.


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csodjd

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I wish this virus was the kind where once you’ve had it you can’t get it again, or once you’ve been vaccinated you can’t get it again or pass it to others. But they’re saying immunity may only last for a matter of months whether from vaccines or from developing antibodies from the virus itself. If that’s the case, people will need to be vaccinated yearly as many folks do with the flu. Beats me. I keep reading, but it’s so hard to absorb it all, particularly when “experts” often seem to be at odds with one another and still figuring things out as time passes.
The vaccination studies started about 6 months back and those receiving the vaccine remain free of infection. So how long it lasts from the vaccine is an open question, but being answered a little bit every day that passes. It is not clear if the virus itself triggers an immune response with the "memory" immune response, but the indications are that the vaccine does. Infectious disease specialists are cautiously optimistic that the protection will last for a year or, they feel, possibly more.
 

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Frankly I don't consider Governors, Mayors, County Officials and School Boards experts in this arena...

George

Absolutely agree! Those weren’t the “experts” being referred to in the post which prompted my comment, though.


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csodjd

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Then what is the purpose of herd immunity? Why would catching and having antibodies from the actual virus be different than the vaccine? How have some vaccines completely eliminated certain viruses like smallpox. Somehow someone should be carrying it and passing it on to those that were not immunized after 1972. The whole purposes of herd immunity is to protect the small percentage of people that can't get vaccines.
You are correct. If it does not prevent transmission it cannot create herd immunity.

Johns Hopkins says this: "Although the phase 3 clinical trials are designed to determine whether vaccinated individuals are protected against disease, it will also be important to understand whether vaccinated individuals are less likely to transmit the virus. This is likely but not ensured. If a vaccine not only protects against disease but reduces transmission, and continues to do so for many years, we are likely to reach a state of herd protection when masks and physical distancing will no longer be required. Herd protection is achieved when a sufficient proportion of the population is made non-infectious through vaccination or natural infection so that the likelihood of an infectious individual transmitting to a susceptible individual is very low."


Here is one opinion: "I suspect the answer will be that people will not be able to transmit — that the virus will protect from transmission, because I think there will be enough antibodies made that will neutralize the virus even at the mucosal surface,” said Dr. Warner Greene, senior investigator at Gladstone Institutes, an independent, nonprofit research lab in San Francisco. “But it is just a guess at this point,” he added. It’s a guess Bhattacharya agreed with. The Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines have, after all, turned out to be much more effective than those tricky flu vaccines. “If you have a vaccine that’s 95 percent effective at reducing symptoms, there is no universe in which it wouldn’t also reduce the likelihood of transmission. It’s just not possible,” he said. “So we’re not talking about whether it reduces transmission or not, we just want to get an extent as to how much.”


But, as explained, because of the speed of development researchers were after they simply did not seek to address the question of the impact on transmission in the initial studies. There was not time in the rush to get something out there that stopped illness and death.
 

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All of the control measures inherently have an element of risk and reward. Lockdown orders and travel restrictions are implemented because policy makers have made an assessment that at a societal level the rewards obtained are worth the risks that exist.

No matter how you slice it, rollout and implementation of vaccines will substantially reduces the risk side of the assessment. Even if the vaccine does nothing to prevent transmission (though it almost certainly will reduce it if only by not having infected people coughing and sneezing). IMHO, if agencies don't recalibrate the control based on the altered risk, there will be massive disobedience of control measures because even larger numbers of people will reject the notion that full control measures are still needed and they will change their behavior to align with their assessment of the changed situation. And the situation will become even more chaotic than what we see now.
 

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All of the control measures inherently have an element of risk and reward. Lockdown orders and travel restrictions are implemented because policy makers have made an assessment that at a societal level the rewards obtained are worth the risks that exist.

No matter how you slice it, rollout and implementation of vaccines will substantially reduces the risk side of the assessment. Even if the vaccine does nothing to prevent transmission (though it almost certainly will reduce it if only by not having infected people coughing and sneezing). IMHO, if agencies don't recalibrate the control based on the altered risk, there will be massive disobedience of control measures because even larger numbers of people will reject the notion that full control measures are still needed and they will change their behavior to align with their assessment of the changed situation. And the situation will become even more chaotic than what we see now.
You are probably right, but there is a problem in it. People without symptoms are going to have a much harder time accepting or acting as if they can infect others. I'm hopeful they cannot infect others. But if it turns out they can, it creates some "curious" problems just from human nature... In particular, if you are NOT vaccinated your risk of catching COVID may well go UP because, as you say, vaccinated people will likely fail to obey mitigation steps far more commonly than before.

Right now, we just need people to get vaccinated. That'll help getting us back to normal no matter what.
 

dioxide45

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Seems we are back to bashing the experts for not knowing more again. Typical TUG.


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This isn't a phenomenon that is limited to TUG.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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In particular, if you are NOT vaccinated your risk of catching COVID may well go UP because, as you say, vaccinated people will likely fail to obey mitigation steps far more commonly than before.
People who choose to not get vaccinated or who choose to engage in risky behaviors before getting vaccinated are making conscious choices, and they should bear the consequences. If their risk of getting COVID increases, that is on them. They presumably are deriving the benefits they seek by engaging in that behavior. Why should they not also have to pay the costs of those behaviors?
 

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This isn't a phenomenon that is limited to TUG.

Obviously. It’s just a recurring theme on TUG, and I’m tired of it.


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dioxide45

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Obviously. It’s just a recurring theme on TUG, and I’m tired of it.


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You seem very sensitive to it. Are you one of the experts? Most people just brush it off and don't get too worked up about it.
 

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Obviously. It’s just a recurring theme on TUG, and I’m tired of it.
As I've gotten older, life has drilled into me that I have very little ability to influence the behavior and attitudes of other people. What I do have significant control of is my reactions and responses to other people's behavior. This has been a big change, as I was raised in a family that believed there was a sacred duty to alter and control the behavior of other people.

Increasingly, that means that I just shrug my shoulders and move on or ignore things. I've been doing much more ignoring and moving on this year, on TUG and elsewhere.
 

Ken555

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As I've gotten older, life has drilled into me that I have very little ability to influence the behavior and attitudes of other people. What I do have significant control of is my reactions and responses to other people's behavior. This has been a big change, as I was raised in a family that believed there was a sacred duty to alter and control the behavior of other people.

Increasingly, that means that I just shrug my shoulders and move on or ignore things. I've been doing much more ignoring and moving on this year, on TUG and elsewhere.

It may be difficult for some to believe, but I've been doing more of the same this year. Still, my tolerance for certain themes has worn thin and now and then I can't stop myself from commenting. It took a pandemic for me to stop treating certain people with kid gloves, and now I'm just shaking my head and sighing a lot. Let the crazy stop.
 
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