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Glut of DVC Resale Listings?

frank808

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We kept our AP's through all of the shutdowns and renewed with the AP discount. But it was the Sorcerer's Pass, and it was $815 to renew. Not as many blackout dates as we had with our other passes. They are quite a savings, when you go to Disney World 9-12 weeks a year. We go four weeks starting 10/8.
Ok corrected my statement with no DVC discount with new pass purchase.

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ljmiii

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Ok corrected my statement with no DVC discount with new pass purchase
Well…they did take away the AP discount for DVC ‘Blue Card’ members.

Renewing an AP that actually *is* an Annual Pass costs the same whether you are DVC or not.

Disney will let you buy a sort of annual pass if you are a blue card member…except you can’t buy a new one, you can only renew. And it doesn’t allow you into the parks around Thanksgiving and Christmas, leaving only Presidents and Easter Weeks if you are limited by the school vacation calendar.
 

TheHolleys87

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Quite a few of the DVC owners on my Facebook group are complaining about their inability to borrow points from their next year's use. They have limited borrowing to 50% of your year's allotment. If you have 100 points and need 170 for your reservation, you cannot use 70 points from next year to make that reservation. All kinds of complaints about it. Apparently, you can call and get an exception to that rule, but online has no such capability.

That is a "rule" Disney made that is not in keeping with the governing documents. It was supposedly due to Covid, but I see no reason for them to continue enforcing it. I would be bitter, if I was counting on using my points for next year. I do not worry about it, especially with exchanges so easy to get for most of the weeks we want to go.
Actually, the governing documents state that DVC can modify or suspend banking and borrowing as needed to maintain balance in the system. The glut of points that were banked during the pandemic and are being used this year and the extensions given to international owners (which are expiring soon) are probably contributing to the unusual booking patterns (villas booking up quicker) this year. With those banked points being used up, hopefully the 50% borrowing restriction will be removed soon. There are increasing numbers of exceptions being reported by owners calling MS who need just a few additional points beyond their 50% limit. So hopefully the end of that is in sight.
 

mdurette

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Don't you have to purchase direct for the AP discount? Wouldn't you also have to own the minimum to be considered a qualifying member for that perk? I don't know what that number is these days. Or are AP discounts open to everyone?

No idea on all questions, something I would have looked into before I pulled the trigger. Didn't get that far once I saw the price of the small contracts
 

MOXJO7282

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Certainly during prior recessions there would have been an increase in rental supply potentially leading to depressed prices? Sure people that can afford DIS may not be affected, but there are a lot of people that finance or can barely afford that would be impacted and possibly want out. Based on finances, not everyone going to Disney should be going to Disney. In a downturn, there will always be fewer of those at the top of the market that they sell these products to. People with good paying jobs lose them too.
This was just my high-end Marriott experience regarding previous economy downturns. Prior to the 2009 recession there were many renting modest and middle tier TSs of all brands, and from what I could tell doing quite well with it. When the recession hit most of those lost their market because many middle to lower class were greatly effected and cancelled vacations resulted and resales were abundant. But much to my surprise, because I expected my entire rental program to come crashing down , those that were upper-middle or above class didn't change any of their habits and as a result my rentals weren't effected at all. So I just don't think its an economy thing yet. Remember at this point not many have lost their jobs yet, unlike in 2009 when many did. Also not seeing a glut of middle of the road TSs being discounted so this seems to be isolated to DIS right now. So again I think it's something else and by the sound of it, it does seem other product factors are in play.

Just my .02.
 

SML123

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I was able to maneuver an RCI trade for three condos same week in July at DVC Saratoga this year for a four generation family trip. However, once my husband and I did the math, we decided to give them the condos with Guest Certificates and let the three generations go on their own. With our flights from Arizona, rental car, and tickets for all for even two days, the total WITHOUT ANY FOOD would be more than the trip to Italy we are planning for next year. So they all have a lovely resort but unfortunately we will not get to see their little faces light up at a character breakfast. This year Ive gone from doing research to buy a small DVC points contract to being full on OUT. I must correct the person in this thread who said the people at the top are not those who are affected by this horrible inflation. WE ARE THE PEOPLE AFFECTED BY THE INFLATION, PLUS WE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THE BUSINESS THAT WERE DECIMATED BY THE PANDEMIC SHUT DOWNS AND STILL HAVE PRODUCT SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES. We are also affected by the high crime and inability to hire right now. Every is affected by the horrible economy and $7 per gallon gas prices. Dont be foolish. We are all in the same boat. Disney will feel it too eventually, just not tomorrow.
 

Kat05

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We are contemplating selling our DVC. We've been members since 2006 and have enjoyed numerous vacations but ended up renting our points out the last couple of years. It seems our adult children and teenage grandchildren aren't as interested in going any more on top of the cost. I contacted Disney and they are buying back contracts and I was given a price over the phone. It seems very quick and easy and it's several thousand more than we paid. I'm struggling with what to do!
 

Lisa P

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Before you act on a direct resale back to Disney, I'd contact a good DVC resale agency. Find out the going rate on a quick sale of what you own, and deduct the reseller's commission. Compare your "cash outs" before you decide which way to go, if you do decide to sell. Using a good agency is just as easy.

If you anticipate continuing to rent it out for several years into the future rather than using it, why keep it? It's just marking off years on the RTU lease. You could easily use the proceeds to get something you'd actually use or to pay for other kinds of vacation stays, if you don't need the cash for other areas of your budget or investments. OTOH, if you can see yourselves wanting to use DVC again in the next few years to stay at DVC resorts, then renting it out is a reasonable option in the short term.
 

fatlard

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hmmm..this does not surprise me at all! Totally predicted this. I think a lot of people are over Disney.

We were at Epcot and Universal last year. It was hot and busy. The tickets were expensive so we got up early in the morning and stay late at night. It rained on us several times. Yes, the rides were fun but is it enough for the kids to want to go back.

We ask the kids if they want to go to Disney this year, they (8,8 and) all said "NO". They rather go to hiking, go to a beach or be on their computers.

Similarly.. who wants to go to a NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL game.... being a large group and at times in miserable conditions paying outrageous prices makes no sense nowadays.
 

Limace

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Yeah, I’d definitely contact a resale agency. For instance, I think Disney will offer $80 ish if they buy back-but you’re going to get $135 (minus commission) with a broker for OKW, as an example. That’s a lot of money to trade for easy (plus I prefer to make Disney pay more!)


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rickandcindy23

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Rent your points by booking a studio in a popular week and list it on go-koala.com for about $17.50 a point. Then use that money elsewhere. Wait for a better time to sell.

Renting is easy and free to list at go-koala.com because they get money after it rents, not before it rents. Redweek also works.
 

dioxide45

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We are contemplating selling our DVC. We've been members since 2006 and have enjoyed numerous vacations but ended up renting our points out the last couple of years. It seems our adult children and teenage grandchildren aren't as interested in going any more on top of the cost. I contacted Disney and they are buying back contracts and I was given a price over the phone. It seems very quick and easy and it's several thousand more than we paid. I'm struggling with what to do!
Go through one of the big resale brokers. Disney is happy to buy it back from you. They sent out some letters to OKW owners last year with an insulting offer to buy back points. Don't sell them back to Disney. You can sell just as easily to a third party. Though with a lot of contracts on the market, it may take a little longer to sell.
 

ljmiii

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Renting is easy and free to list at go-koala.com because they get money after it rents, not before it rents.
I'm confused...why would anyone get money before it rents? The major DVC rental agencies (David's, DVCRentalStore, DVC-Rental) all make money off the vig between the amount they charge renters and the amount they pay owners.

With the DVC resale market frozen for the moment, I just rented out some DVC points on the DVCRentalStore (though I have used the other two in the past). Interestingly enough, demand for rental points is so strong that they recently increased their price and are paying 75% when you make the reservation (instead of 50%).
 

ljmiii

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There is no question the resale market for DVC is odd at the moment. DVC Resale's May ROFR report just came out today and new records are being set both in terms of the number and price of contracts ROFR'd by Disney.
 

pedro47

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How long can DVC keep their resale market frozen. Is this the beginning of a DVC crash? Or are DVC Rentals agents making more money renting DVC properties than what Disney are earning from owners & exchangers?

Food for Thought.
 

noreenkate

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Actually, the governing documents state that DVC can modify or suspend banking and borrowing as needed to maintain balance in the system. The glut of points that were banked during the pandemic and are being used this year and the extensions given to international owners (which are expiring soon) are probably contributing to the unusual booking patterns (villas booking up quicker) this year. With those banked points being used up, hopefully the 50% borrowing restriction will be removed soon. There are increasing numbers of exceptions being reported by owners calling MS who need just a few additional points beyond their 50% limit. So hopefully the end of that is in sight.

this is supposed to be changing next week but on a case by case basis via phone in to MS….this was personally a big deal for me that along with the revised point /season chart changes was enough to get me staying outside the bubble for the first time in years…an subsequently picking up contracts with other timeshare systems. @Kat05 Seriously contact a broker you will due far better than what DVC is offering…
 

ljmiii

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How long can DVC keep their resale market frozen. Is this the beginning of a DVC crash? Or are DVC Rentals agents making more money renting DVC properties than what Disney are earning from owners & exchangers?
I don't see this as DVC keeping the resale market frozen but rather (from Disney's perspective) a pleasant side effect of shifting guest patterns. With fewer AP holders and international visitors, Disney is filling the parks with people eager and willing to buy DVC points direct from the source. All those new customers need inventory.
 

Dean

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How long can DVC keep their resale market frozen. Is this the beginning of a DVC crash? Or are DVC Rentals agents making more money renting DVC properties than what Disney are earning from owners & exchangers?

Food for Thought.
I think the answer is related to how well they can sell the points. They currently have a finite number of points available only supplemented with the ROFR purchases. Over it's 40 year history DVC has defied the odds on price and sales. During the 08/09 period they did stop ROFR and the price went to about half it was immediately before. I don't think that was directly related to ROFR being stoped but rather the economy itself dictated both situations.
 

callwill

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Im a beleiver in the idea that if they wish to exercise ROFR because the they think the sale price is too low, then they should be forced under those circumstances to buy you out.
 

dioxide45

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Not sure what you mean here, can you explain further?
Yeah. I am not sure either. I don't think this is something Disney is doing or even something DVC has control of.
 

Pathways

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Im a beleiver in the idea that if they wish to exercise ROFR because the they think the sale price is too low, then they should be forced under those circumstances to buy you out.
Please explain what you mean here by 'should be forced'

To 'exercise ROFR' means exactly that, they 'buy you out' at the same price and terms of the contract.
 

Pathways

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I'm not sure the high number of listings has a deep meaning.

I happen to be part of that high number. The are a lot of moving parts that led me to sell some of my points, but the main reason is the historic HIGH price.

For the points I don't use personally, I rent. I used to be able to make an 8-10% return (calculated using the sale value of the points). The selling price of points has risen so much, that my % return has dropped to 4-5 %. (while rental prices have also risen, they have not kept up with the rise in selling prices)

IOW, why mess with a rental when the selling price may be at a historical high? Especially for the resorts where the points EXPIRE and will have NO value in 20 years. I have sold all of my points at resorts where they expire in 2042 except for BWV. I still have about 750 points there which I PLAN to keep all the way to the end b/c we love to stay there. OTOH, if prices continue to rise, I will evaluate selling even some/all of those points.

Of course DVC still has my money. I used my windfall of cash to buy into the resorts with later expiration dates. Pick and choose loaded contracts and hope you can get it without Disney ROFR.

If there was even a hint the DVC would simply reup the 2042 contracts, I would re-examine selling. But not even a rumor at this point. Many are guessing they will let them expire, and then resell them as new at full price. Who knows?
 

dioxide45

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If there was even a hint the DVC would simply reup the 2042 contracts, I would re-examine selling. But not even a rumor at this point. Many are guessing they will let them expire, and then resell them as new at full price. Who knows?
Aren't there five and a half resorts with 2042 dates? That would be a lot of inventory that DVC has to carry until they sell it. I don't think the demand is there (at rental prices they charge) to fill all those rooms with cash guests for a period of several years after 2042. I suspect they may let a couple of the resorts go; like Vero ahd HHI. For the others, I suspect they will offer some type of reup to current owners. I doubt it will be a simple extension, but perhaps a buyin extension like they did with OKW. Apparently the OKW buyin was a real mess in that not only did they have to get people who signed up to sign, but they had to get people who didn't extend to sign saything they were offered and turned it down. So there are some legal questions about those that never signed anything regarding the extension at OKW.
 
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