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Georgia: Some Businesses Allowed to ReOpen

TravelTime

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There is an article in The Guardian on this. The Guardian is an extremely liberal newspaper, so not surprisingly most of the article is quoting mayors in Georgia who are very upset with the reopening. (I am not saying this point of view is wrong, just that it would be the slant given in The Guardian.)

What I found most interesting is a fifth mayor almost immediately was texted by a restaurant owner concerned that reopening would be worse for him than staying closed. He thought that he would only get a trickle of customers willing to risk it. In the meantime, he would have to pay his staff and end up losing more money than staying closed.

There are certainly some interesting twists to this whole CoVid19 story. (Crude oil having a negative price where those who have to take possession will pay someone to take it off their hands! Wow!)

That is an interesting point. Maybe that restaurant owner should stay closed until more time passes and more people start going out. That is his choice. Why make everyone else wait? If everyone else opens, they are testing the waters for him.
 

Luanne

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This is one thing that I hope changes in my world once we get back rolling again....

The type of work I can do can easily be done from home. But my employer frowns on it -- they like "face time" in the office. In fact, there's a corporate culture that comes from the top that reeks of : come into the office even if you're sick . It's like a badge of honor -- who is "tougher" to gut through a workday to show how much mettle they have.

Last Jan / Feb, I would sit in my office and hear all kinds of continual coughing going on around me. I'm not a germaphobe, but it's just gross and nasty to listen to. WORK AT HOME!

I think, now, the office place culture will have to change b/c there are so many people who are just fearful and it will make the people at the top look really insensitive if they continue with the previous way of doing things.
Dd is currently looking at job openings online as here two year contract will be up the end of the year. She found one that sounded interesting, BUT there was a category that said something like
"telecommuting allowed" and it said no. She said that took that job off the table for her. She knows her job can be done from home, she's doing it currently.
 

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I’ve heard some states have drive thru testing sites open and they are not busy. How are we going to get broad based testing if people do not go to get tested?
The drive thru test sites in Alabama only had enough tests to be open a couple hours every few days, and we have a republican governor. Even she is now saying testing isn’t where it needs to be to open the state back up. She’s being pressured to do it anyway so we’ll see how long she holds out, but if she is that concerned, there’s a problem. She was one of the last to issue a SAH/SIP order.
 

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I agree that if one area opens, you will have ppl from outside of the area come. We live on the CA Coast and ppl want to open the beach. The problem is it’s a public beach so ppl will come from surrounding areas. We also have a large % of seniors. We require masks for essential activities. The risk is just too great.
 

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Details are coming out that this virus has been out much longer than we thought, and many more people had it and didn't get sick than we thought, which means the death rate is much lower than being reported. People need to get to work. The elderly, those with co-morbidities, and those are are concerned for their health can stay home and limit who they come into contact with. The rest should get out, wear masks, stay six feet apart, and get this country going again.
The tests only measure a moment in time. They could be different the next day. False positive or false negative is always a possibility. Some scientists are saying this hibernation was the wrong tactic, at least for the entire population. It should not drag on through summer.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...sing-deaths.html?referringSource=articleShare
 

dayooper

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Details are coming out that this virus has been out much longer than we thought, and many more people had it and didn't get sick than we thought, which means the death rate is much lower than being reported. People need to get to work. The elderly, those with co-morbidities, and those are are concerned for their health can stay home and limit who they come into contact with. The rest should get out, wear masks, stay six feet apart, and get this country going again.
The tests only measure a moment in time. They could be different the next day. False positive or false negative is always a possibility. Some scientists are saying this hibernation was the wrong tactic, at least for the entire population. It should not drag on through summer.

My question in all of this is what are the details of how this is going to work? Are we forcing people to go out? What happens if, let's say, someone has a person at home with a compromised immune system. Will they be forced to go to work? What happens if the order to reopen comes down and the boss says come to work or be fired? If they feel they can't go back to work, will they still be able to collect unemployment? Will they still receive healthcare? What happens if someone dies from a forced back worker bringing back the virus to a compromised person. Will the employer be held accountable? What happens if the schools don't reopen and there is no one there to watch a workers children? Will there be a repercussions to that family? Will they be able to get their job back or keep their health care? How about mask and social distancing? We have seen many occasions where people refuse to do so. Will that be mandated? If so, what will be the penalty. Masks aren't just keeping you safe, it's to keep other safe if you are ill. I went grocery shopping this past week and I would say that half were wearing some sort of mask. If you are going to force reopening (or even allow it), these are just a fraction of the details that need to be worked out.

I'm not saying I am for or against opening things up. What I'm saying is I believe that just opening things up needs to be planned out meticulously. There needs to be both legal and health protections in place for those that have dangers associated with the virus. If you don't, you are condemning those that have risk factors to a much higher risk of death. Rushing in and lifting bans is not the way to do so. At some point we will have to start things up again, that's a given. How well this works out will depend on communication and cooperation between our local, state, federal governments, the business owners, corporations and citizens alike. Both our major political parties are going to have to come together and actually govern to develop a plan to reopen. Every detail can't be planned out, of course, but protections must be put in place for those that need it. Otherwise, it's my humble opinion that it will a huge disaster and we will all suffer even more.
 

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I’ve heard some states have drive thru testing sites open and they are not busy. How are we going to get broad based testing if people do not go to get tested?
We are still limited to first responders, their household members and nursing homes. A couple days a week for a few hours. It is not widespread.

I think people were trained to stay home unless you can't breathe. I don't know if there is fear of being near the testing site? Also not sure if word is really getting out to residents. When I think about the poor people in the poor counties, I'm not sure they would know. I do hope we eventually get to instant door to door testing to not let those folks fall through the cracks.
 

Big Matt

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This is one thing that I hope changes in my world once we get back rolling again....

The type of work I can do can easily be done from home. But my employer frowns on it -- they like "face time" in the office. In fact, there's a corporate culture that comes from the top that reeks of : come into the office even if you're sick . It's like a badge of honor -- who is "tougher" to gut through a workday to show how much mettle they have.

Last Jan / Feb, I would sit in my office and hear all kinds of continual coughing going on around me. I'm not a germaphobe, but it's just gross and nasty to listen to. WORK AT HOME!

I think, now, the office place culture will have to change b/c there are so many people who are just fearful and it will make the people at the top look really insensitive if they continue with the previous way of doing things.
I own a consulting firm in the financial services sector. I see companies who are very much like your employer and others that are more liberal with WFH. When talking to executives from my client companies every one of them are starting to realize how easy it is to work remote. Many never even considered it themselves. The same this is true with business travel. Many are realizing that business travel is actually a waste of productivity due to lost work time. Sales folks are worrying about whether they will still be able to travel as normal given the costs and no real productivity gain.

I think this is one of the new normals that will survive past the pandemic. It will become a recruiting advantage for companies who are more liberal going forward.
 

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This is one thing that I hope changes in my world once we get back rolling again....

The type of work I can do can easily be done from home. But my employer frowns on it -- they like "face time" in the office. In fact, there's a corporate culture that comes from the top that reeks of : come into the office even if you're sick . It's like a badge of honor -- who is "tougher" to gut through a workday to show how much mettle they have.

Completely agree with this. In a former career life, my wife worked for a supplier of one of the Big 3 automakers. She was let go in 2009. After a few years as a stay at home mom, she opened her own at home, online business. Very small, but helps us make our bills. One day one of her former bosses wanted to hire her services. She was very open to working for him as they had a very good working relationship. They started talking about the work and it was something like she was doing for them when she was working for them before she got laid off. It was all based on data compiling and analysis using databases (it was even the same database she created when working for them several years prior). Easily done from home. Her old boss then dropped the bomb that she was to report 3 days a week to his clients office. It was a 2 hour drive just to get there and it was non-negotiable. They HAD to watch over her to make sure she wasn't goofing off. Needless to say, she declined the work.
 

CalGalTraveler

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I do not think I could require testing of my employees unless it became mandated by the government. There would be a backlash, I think. I might be able to encourage and incent them to do it, though. But the current test is just a moment in time. It does not guarantee anything. I think the antibody test will be better. It feels like an invasion of privacy so I just do not see myself requiring any tests unless the government mandates it.

IMO...I could envision business owners being pressured to do so by their legal counsel and insurance plans who will place exclusions for coverage if certain conditions are not met. There is precedent in that businesses can require drug testing and other measures as a condition of employment. There also is the local health department that can shut down restaurants.

OTOH...I could see some businesses desperate to survive that take no measures. Business owners are "Da*ned if you do and Da*ned if you don't."

This is a convenient way out for legislators. Don't like what's happening? Blame it on the businesses and lawyers. As we used to say in Corporate America, "All sh** rolls downhill...

Watch this space.
 
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TravelTime

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I am not sure about government mandating but I could envision business owners being pressured to do so by their legal council and insurance plans. There is precedent in that businesses can require drug testing and other measures as a condition of employment.

I worked for Kaiser in 2008-2009. They required that I get all my vaccines because I was working in a health care setting. That is the only job I have ever had that required vaccines as a condition of employment. They did not require any testing of diseases though or drug testing, though. @MrockStar had a good point that flu vaccines are not required. I do not foresee testing for Covid being required. I think when there is a vaccine, everyone will be encouraged to get one, like with the flu vaccine.
 

TravelTime

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My question in all of this is what are the details of how this is going to work? Are we forcing people to go out? What happens if, let's say, someone has a person at home with a compromised immune system. Will they be forced to go to work? What happens if the order to reopen comes down and the boss says come to work or be fired? If they feel they can't go back to work, will they still be able to collect unemployment? Will they still receive healthcare? What happens if someone dies from a forced back worker bringing back the virus to a compromised person. Will the employer be held accountable? What happens if the schools don't reopen and there is no one there to watch a workers children? Will there be a repercussions to that family? Will they be able to get their job back or keep their health care? How about mask and social distancing? We have seen many occasions where people refuse to do so. Will that be mandated? If so, what will be the penalty. Masks aren't just keeping you safe, it's to keep other safe if you are ill. I went grocery shopping this past week and I would say that half were wearing some sort of mask. If you are going to force reopening (or even allow it), these are just a fraction of the details that need to be worked out.

I'm not saying I am for or against opening things up. What I'm saying is I believe that just opening things up needs to be planned out meticulously. There needs to be both legal and health protections in place for those that have dangers associated with the virus. If you don't, you are condemning those that have risk factors to a much higher risk of death. Rushing in and lifting bans is not the way to do so. At some point we will have to start things up again, that's a given. How well this works out will depend on communication and cooperation between our local, state, federal governments, the business owners, corporations and citizens alike. Both our major political parties are going to have to come together and actually govern to develop a plan to reopen. Every detail can't be planned out, of course, but protections must be put in place for those that need it. Otherwise, it's my humble opinion that it will a huge disaster and we will all suffer even more.

As I understand, the re-opening of the states will be done in phases, not all at once nor will it be a “forced” re-opening. I will not re-open my office even if the state allows me to do so. Businesses can choose when and how to re-open based on their individual issues and employee concerns. Many large companies are re-opening in phases and taking individual needs into considerations.

A lot of the issues you mentioned are already issues for essential businesses. Millions of essential businesses have operated with these risks since the shut downs started. How have they dealt with your questions?
 

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I will not re-open my office even if the state allows me to do so. Businesses can choose when and how to re-open based on their individual issues and employee concerns. Many large companies are re-opening in phases and taking individual needs into considerations.

This. The government can remove restrictions but it cannot force a business to reopen. The government is now less compelled to help bail out businesses because they are "allowed" to be open.
 
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This. The government can remove restrictions but it cannot force a business to reopen. The government is now less compelled to help bail out businesses because they are "allowed" to be open.

I think the bail out will be done before the SIP/SAH orders are lifted. I can‘t imagine them finding more money to bail out more businesses after this. I hope they approve the additional SBA funding.
 

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OTOH I wouldn't be surprised if businesses require their employees to get regularly tested to ensure a safe work environment and avoid lawsuits.
So the business is going to pay for someone to come stick a swab HARD up your nasal cavity as a condition of employent? Are they next going to require complete medical records? regular flu testig? No this will NOT happen
I do not think I could require testing of my employees unless it became mandated by the government. There would be a backlash, I think. I might be able to encourage and incent them to do it, though. But the current test is just a moment in time. It does not guarantee anything. I think the antibody test will be better. It feels like an invasion of privacy so I just do not see myself requiring any tests unless the government mandates it.
testing employees every few days is simply impractical. Even the antibody testing is trouble some-what's next? Immunity papers? Immediately making some citizens 2nd class and discriminated against?

Testing is used for Diagnostics for the medical provider to decide course of action/treatment NOT as an indicator of health that an employer should EVER EVER EVER be part of EVER. Once you start down that slippery road it will NOT stop. The testing right NOW is used to determine scope of outbreak-both to see if you are active infections and if recovered from it sometime in the past. That's it.
If the government or an employer required this and required "proof" of immunity I'd be first in line for a class action lawsuit.
 

CalGalTraveler

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FWIW I don't have a horse in this race but the devils advocate would say...

That ship has sailed. It started when employers required drug testing of employees and background checks as a condition of employment. Some also require a tuberculosis test. The legal argument for all of these is that "they are in the interest of public safety." Why is this any different?

Similar to background checks, a prospective employee may be required to pay for their visit to a designated health provider and present a doctor's release. Companies will save money where they can.
 

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I really hope people do not start suing each other. I hope the courts will throw out the cases or it will set a bad precedent, IMO. In a few cases, there might be clear negligence and/or intention to harm but those are probably the exceptions.
Many years ago I lost my home to the 1989 CA earthquake. Actually, I lost it to Santa Cruz County. Based on a quick drive-by, it was tagged as dangerous. I tried to rebuild but kept hitting roadblocks. Finally surrendered it to loan company. Fast forward, I attended a July 4th BBQ at a former neighbor's house. I hadn't been in the area for a couple of years. I was surprised to see people living in my house and went over to talk to them. When I asked how they were able to obtain geological survey, etc. that were requirements placed on me, they said. "Oh no, didn't need any of that. The county removed the tag and said it had been a mistake." Next business day I'm talking to an attorney who tells me there can be no lawsuit against county unless I can prove 'malicious intent' because mistakes are excused during emergency conditions. This rule may apply during Covid.
 

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There is an article in The Guardian on this. The Guardian is an extremely liberal newspaper, so not surprisingly most of the article is quoting mayors in Georgia who are very upset with the reopening. (I am not saying this point of view is wrong, just that it would be the slant given in The Guardian.)

What I found most interesting is a fifth mayor almost immediately was texted by a restaurant owner concerned that reopening would be worse for him than staying closed. He thought that he would only get a trickle of customers willing to risk it. In the meantime, he would have to pay his staff and end up losing more money than staying closed.

There are certainly some interesting twists to this whole CoVid19 story. (Crude oil having a negative price where those who have to take possession will pay someone to take it off their hands! Wow!)
There is nothing saying that a business MUST open, is there?
 

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FWIW I don't have a horse in this race but the devils advocate would say...

That ship has sailed. It started when employers required drug testing of employees and background checks as a condition of employment. Some also require a tuberculosis test. The legal argument for all of these is that "they are in the interest of public safety." Why is this any different?

Similar to background checks, a prospective employee may be required to pay for their visit to a designated health provider and present a doctor's release. Companies will save money where they can.
You forgot credit checks.
 

Luanne

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There is nothing saying that a business MUST open, is there?
I don't think anyone can force a business to open. And even if open, nothing can force people to go there.
 

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FWIW I don't have a horse in this race but the devils advocate would say...

That ship has sailed. It started when employers required drug testing of employees and background checks as a condition of employment. Some also require a tuberculosis test. The legal argument for all of these is that "they are in the interest of public safety." Why is this any different?

Similar to background checks, a prospective employee may be required to pay for their visit to a designated health provider and present a doctor's release. Companies will save money where they can.

Other than Kaiser, I have never had health tests or vaccines required at any of the 10 or so large Fortune 500 companies I have worked for as well as all the nonprofits and government agencies I have worked for. I only recall one company ever doing drug testing before hiring me. There must be reasons why many companies do not require any testing at all if they could easily justify it legally. I am not aware of how it works. I am just mentioning my experience. I recall when Kaiser made me do all the vaccines, I was pretty upset about one of the tests due to the requirements of the test. I forgot what it was that bothered me but it felt really wrong.
 

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@geekette thanks for adding that. IMO running credit checks on every employee is the worst of the slippery slope because someone may just be down on their luck and really need the job. Or they are young and weren't fortunate to have their parents add them as authorized users to build their credit. There also are lots of college students who made mistakes managing their newly minted credit card. Not to forget many with bankruptcies from medical bills.

I hardly consider it a risk to public safety for most jobs (except for people whose job is to work with cash or could be compromised for money.)

Here is another: Companies now regularly review employee social media profiles.

There is an entire industry around background and drug tests to support private company hiring decisions. I wouldn't be surprised if they are lobbying hard.
 
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