[LOCKED] Gaming the system - Resale Club Wyndham Points with VIP.

[HitchHiker71]

Don't forget if one has everything in a 401K to get the greatest match and cannot afford a non-retirement account, they cannot tax harvest losses. The savings in taxes offsets the loss of the match. Like I said you are one of the lucky ones because I have not seen anyone I know have the option you have. They usually have a couple of crappy mutual funds to choose from.

Most of the people I know have retirement plans with these options - at least in my circle of influence/life. That said, most small businesses don't. So if you tend to travel in small business circles - your experience is likely the exact opposite when compared to mine. Pure tax loss harvesting doesn't buy me much as it's limited to 3k per year on my 1040 - not exactly saving me much at a 25% total tax rate - gives me only $750/year at most. That said, I certainly use tax loss harvesting when I can - if I have losses that I want to realize of course. I have far more gains than losses as a general rule - and given most of my retirement investment funds exist within actual retirement accounts - tax loss harvesting is largely moot for someone like me. I'd much rather not have the privilege of dealing with tax loss harvesting really - as that means I've made bad investment decisions in the first place - which I always strive to avoid given I'm a fundamentalist investor type.

 

[WManning]

And surely no one really thought that was going to last forever. I think most people knew there would be a time to pick up their marbles and go home.

The last thing I care about, is someone adding a non-family member to their deed. Do some people really worry that much that it is taking something away from them? The original owners are keeping their name on it, so they are still (also) responsible for the maintenance fees, etc. That takes a great deal of trust - but it's an agreement between parties. No beef here.

How about sales purposely selling people contracts with different use years and "teaching" you how to roll points forward so they never expired? That was common practice 7/8 years ago. No one ever talks about that. Since promoting those type sales and practices, they then implemented a procedure to realign your use years forward if you have multiple use years, and "pocketing" if if you will, 1-3 months of current year usage.

Most things one might consider questionable or unethical were most likely originally dreamed up by the Wyndham salesforce themselves. The ultimate benefiter of many of these tricks was Wyndham. (In this last example - they would sell a new contract so you'd have multiple use years - then they essentially stripped points from you when they realigned the use years).

Haha! The point theft on use year realignment. So many other issues that we can rehash but Wyndham was a willing participant in the abuse of loopholes and encouraged buyingnup to VIP renting the excess points to pay all maintenance fees. Every owner update I attended it was pitched as a reason to buy developer points.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Such as refusing to invest in a 401K because of its limited choices and high expenses. I turn down the free match in order to be in control of my investments. Thus, I never lose money because whatever the snobs do, I do the opposite. So, I never get caught in bubbles and sell before they burst and buy before they inflate again.

Wow. There…. There is a lot to unpack there…

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

In exchange for doing this, I get a 10% raise--my employer matches my first 5% on a 2-to-1 basis. I suppose someone can beat that extra 10% by being smart and going it alone, but I am not that person. And anyone reading this probably isn't either.

No, they really can’t. RENTER’s strategy (if what he’s saying is true) comes down to him being really lucky and having run like a golden god for a few years. Unless you’re trading on inside information nobody is really beating the S&P 500 long term, they just might get lucky in the short term. To turn down a match so that you can “play the market” is absolute lunacy. I’ve not seen many 401k’s that don’t have some kind of low fee unmanaged index fund option. At the very least he should be maxing out his match and putting that money there before gambling on individual stocks.

 

[RENTER]

Yes - since you explicitly referenced using short ETFs - which are simply ticker symbols listed via the public markets - I can use my brokerage option to buy any ticker symbol I so desire - whether individual equities - or ETFs. In fact, I can also actually purchase options (calls/puts) if I so desire - as my brokerage also offers this capability - I can even apply for margin trading capability if I were so inclined. All of the big entities have offered these capabilities for quite some number of years now - including Fidelity, Vanguard, Principal, Voya and Schwab to name a few off the top of my head. There are tiered offerings that each of the providers offer - not all of which provide the brokerage option - so not all 401k plans will have them - but at least some do. My company uses a safe harbor 401k plan - which has most options. I'd guess smaller businesses lose out on these types of options - given a considerably percentage of small businesses don't even offer any 401k option in the first place.

Like I said, thank your lucky stars because most people do not have those options. The guy people think I am, told my sister not to keep contributing to her 401K because of her limited options and open a Roth and a brokerage account. We were told we were crazy when we told other people what we were doing. Her Roth and brokerage account are kicking butt while her fellow employees are taking a beating.

The guy people think I am will tell you the story about a lady he met who was crying. When asked why she said because her employees 401Ks were getting wiped out in 2008. He will tell you he said let me guess which investments you have. She asked him how he knew. He said everyone has the same thing. Someone was taking bribes like the NYC teachers unions were caught doing putting people into crap. She told him, there was no bribes that she made the decisions. So, he asked her why did she not talk to Schwab, Fidelity or Vanguard instead of using the high commission brokerage with limited choices she used. She said she did, she did not like their attitude.

He asked her what business school did she go to where she learned to invest. She said she did not. She was a psychology major. The moral of the story is that for many, their choices are limited because the people making the decision are limited in their knowledge of investing. That according to him is why most of the time, it pays to skip the free money and have the freedom to choose what you want.

And yes, he was right, I did look it up. The NYC teachers union was caught taking bribes to put their members in certain products.

 

[RENTER]

Most of the people I know have retirement plans with these options - at least in my circle of influence/life. That said, most small businesses don't. So if you tend to travel in small business circles - your experience is likely the exact opposite when compared to mine. Pure tax loss harvesting doesn't buy me much as it's limited to 3k per year on my 1040 - not exactly saving me much at a 25% total tax rate - gives me only $750/year at most. That said, I certainly use tax loss harvesting when I can - if I have losses that I want to realize of course. I have far more gains than losses as a general rule - and given most of my retirement investment funds exist within actual retirement accounts - tax loss harvesting is largely moot for someone like me. I'd much rather not have the privilege of dealing with tax loss harvesting really - as that means I've made bad investment decisions in the first place - which I always strive to avoid given I'm a fundamentalist investor type.

Yes on your tax return the limit is $3,000. But if you have to take out $25,000 for home repairs, you can create paper losses to wipe out that $25,000 gain so you don't have to pay the taxes on the $25,000. And it does not mean you made bad investment decisions if your hedging and you have a winner and a loser and you sell the winner and buy the loser. My portfolio is always green and red. If it is all green or all red, then I am gambling. I don't gamble. Every investment I have is a basket of stocks and if any of them go out of business, we are all dead, so the losers will come back.

 

[RENTER]

Most of the people I know have retirement plans with these options - at least in my circle of influence/life. That said, most small businesses don't. So if you tend to travel in small business circles - your experience is likely the exact opposite when compared to mine. Pure tax loss harvesting doesn't buy me much as it's limited to 3k per year on my 1040 - not exactly saving me much at a 25% total tax rate - gives me only $750/year at most. That said, I certainly use tax loss harvesting when I can - if I have losses that I want to realize of course. I have far more gains than losses as a general rule - and given most of my retirement investment funds exist within actual retirement accounts - tax loss harvesting is largely moot for someone like me. I'd much rather not have the privilege of dealing with tax loss harvesting really - as that means I've made bad investment decisions in the first place - which I always strive to avoid given I'm a fundamentalist investor type.

You are correct. I live in the small business world. However I have friends in the corporate world who do not have the options you have. I told someone at large pharmaceutical company to stop buying their 401K and do the Roth and Brokerage instead. She told me I was crazy but she did listen. Then her fellow employees told her she was crazy when she did it. She is doing much better with more choices then she had with the 401K. So in 2022 when her fellow employees were down around 20% she sneaked out a 3% gain. This year she is matching the market which is up. So, she is up in both a down and up market. Not getting wiped out in a down market is the key.

 

[4TimeAway]

Per you: The agreement between Wyndham and Airbnb that allows owners to rent thru Airbnb, makes these rules obsolete.

The winds of fate blow in changing directions.

Also, not sure my CPA will allow home repairs to be written off. Perhaps at resale, but most repairs on rentals are amortized.

 

[4TimeAway]

I will cease to be involved in this pointless hyperbole.

Best of luck, safe travels and may the wind be forever at your back.

 

[RENTER]

Yes - since you explicitly referenced using short ETFs - which are simply ticker symbols listed via the public markets - I can use my brokerage option to buy any ticker symbol I so desire - whether individual equities - or ETFs. In fact, I can also actually purchase options (calls/puts) if I so desire - as my brokerage also offers this capability - I can even apply for margin trading capability if I were so inclined. All of the big entities have offered these capabilities for quite some number of years now - including Fidelity, Vanguard, Principal, Voya and Schwab to name a few off the top of my head. There are tiered offerings that each of the providers offer - not all of which provide the brokerage option - so not all 401k plans will have them - but at least some do. My company uses a safe harbor 401k plan - which has most options. I'd guess smaller businesses lose out on these types of options - given a considerably percentage of small businesses don't even offer any 401k option in the first place.

You are correct. The guy who people think I am, will tell you a story about a lady he met whose was crying. She was crying because her employees 401Ks were getting wiped out in 2008. That is twice since 2000. He said to her let him guess what investments they had and he was correct. She asked how he knew and he said everyone has the same things, someone is taking bribes like the NYC teachers union did. She said there was no bribes and that she made the decision. He then asked her why did she not use Schwab, Vanguard or Fidelity instead of the limit choice and high expense company she did. She said she did talk to them but did not like their attitude. He then asked her what business courses she took to learn how to invest. She said she did not because she was a psychology major. That is why I tell you that you are lucky. Most of America does not have your option. The same situation exists with most of those 529 plans. He told me to look it up and I did. The NYC teachers unions took bribes to put their teachers into the same investment products this lady had picked for her employees. That is when he convinced me to stay away from 401Ks which I then convinced my sister to do which she did and she is doing much better.

 

[RENTER]

The person who posted that article on Facebook has a lot of similar strategies as you. I'm sure the two of you would get along.

Keep trying. One day you may figure it out. I am not him or a relative of him but I do know him from the internet.

 

[paxsarah]

The guy people think I am

 

[RENTER]

Thank you for making people think I am him because it draws the attention off me and stay of the radar while arguing for renting. You did exactly what he planned. Sadly, you're spying on him is limited since you only have access to what he posts publicly on Facebook. You do not have access to his private posts and never will because he only accepts friend requests from people he knows. If you did, you would see how well his plans are working. Plans I thought were crazy but work. If the markets continue to fall today. this is one of those days he gets revenge on those who laugh at him by posting pictures of him making us money today. Yes, making us money. That is a hint for you to make your spying easier. If you did have access to his private posts, you would see another plan he created that I thought was crazy. It is succeeding beyond belief. But if I share it, some people here would have a heart attack from their rage even thru he is doing nothing illegal. It is just very creative and makes me laugh. Again, the hint to who I am is he is making us money. Oh, by the way, my wife was one of those NYC teachers who the NYC teacher's union sold out for a bribe and my sister was the one with the crappy 401K that her pharma company offered. Both told him he was crazy but did what he said and now are very happy campers with their investments. Now people tell us we are crazy for doing what we are doing.

 

[chapjim]

I am 100% tired of this pompous a$$. On to the Ignore List.

 

[RENTER]

No, they really can’t. RENTER’s strategy (if what he’s saying is true) comes down to him being really lucky and having run like a golden god for a few years. Unless you’re trading on inside information nobody is really beating the S&P 500 long term, they just might get lucky in the short term. To turn down a match so that you can “play the market” is absolute lunacy. I’ve not seen many 401k’s that don’t have some kind of low fee unmanaged index fund option. At the very least he should be maxing out his match and putting that money there before gambling on individual stocks.

It comes down to being well diversified with 100 different sectors in both the stock market and having both bulls and bears and having equal amounts in each and playing them off each other. Then having the market tell you what to sell and what to buy. It trails the market in a bull market and it beats the market in a down market. But up in both markets. Then live off the dividends which are not subject to social security taxes which I want no part off. Before I hear the whining about it is too much work, it takes 6 hours to set it up and 5 minutes to rebalance after it is set up. This was not my idea. It was the idea of the guy who people think I am and it works. If that requires too much time for people then unless your well paid or getting a large inheritance, enjoy spending the rest of your live crying you are on fixed income.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It comes down to being well diversified with 100 different sectors in both the stock market and having both bulls and bears and having equal amounts in each and playing them off each other.

Unmanaged low fee index funds are about as diversified as you can get. You are leaving match money on the table for no reason other than you think you are smarter than everyone else, when in actuality, you've just gotten really lucky in the short term.

 

[RENTER]

Unmanaged low fee index funds are about as diversified as you can get. You are leaving match money on the table for no reason other than you think you are smarter than everyone else, when in actuality, you've just gotten really lucky in the short term.

Unmanaged low fee index funds are about as diversified as you can get. You are leaving match money on the table for no reason other than you think you are smarter than everyone else, when in actuality, you've just gotten really lucky in the short term.

You are obviously a clueless person who thinks that all 401K plans are the same. You are also obviously a clueless person who thinks that everyone is offered a low fee index fund in their 401 K plan. if they do, it is just the 500 index, a small cap index, a midcap index and a large cap index. When the market goes, they all go. I use all 11 sector indexes of the 500 and then another 30 sector indexes. You are obviously a clueless person who thinks every 401K plan offers ETF's which are much cheaper then mutual funds when they do not. As for me thinking I am smarter than everyone else, no I do not. That is why I own everything. I take your precious index and slice it up into the different sectors in it. So, I can cherry pick the winners. When your precious index falls 20% to 40% and you need money you have to take the loss. Slicing it up I start with the winners first and then work my way down to those that have fallen the less when I need the money which I don't because I live off the dividends taking the profits from the winners and parking them into short term bonds. As for being lucky for the short term, your right if you consider 40 years the short term and surviving 1987, 2000, 2008 and 2002. Also you are obviously a clueless person not knowing one reason the job market is so strong is because many retired seniors have taking a beaten with the 401K and have to go back to work. So unless you have the same options in your 401K that Hitchhiker has, you have sold your soul for free money by accepting a limited amount of choices and paying higher taxes unless your company offers you a 401K Roth which is relatively new. Oh, by the way 2 of those 11 sectors I have were up today, energy and consumer staples. 49 of my 100 funds were up and I had 0.13% gain on the day. So good luck with your match money. Oh by the way, just to flip you out even more, I have the same philosophy with social security. I paid as little as I could into it knowing full well that I would have a little check. I lived off rental income and dividends which are not subject to social security taxes. So, when I die, very little of my money went into social security so the government can take it when I die. Unlike my friends who paid the max into it and died before they could collect. Off course the sheep will say that if they were married, the surviving spouse will get the larger of the 2 checks. The larger of the 2 checks? That shows they are brain washed thinking they are getting free money. Why are they not getting both checks? I had a shirt made in the 80's. In front it said Pro-Choice. In the back it said Free Me From Social Security. Before people come out screaming how they cannot live without social security. I understand and I am not calling for it to end. It was just not for me and I could do better and I did not want the money to go to the government when I die. I wanted it to go where I wanted it to go.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

You are obviously a clueless person who thinks that all 401K plans are the same. You are also obviously a clueless person who thinks that everyone is offered a low fee index fund in their 401 K plan. if they do, it is just the 500 index, a small cap index, a midcap index and a large cap index. When the market goes, they all go. I use all 11 sector indexes of the 500 and then another 30 sector indexes. You are obviously a clueless person who thinks every 401K plan offers ETF's which are much cheaper then mutual funds when they do not. As for me thinking I am smarter than everyone else, no I do not. That is why I own everything. I take your precious index and slice it up into the different sectors in it. So, I can cherry pick the winners. When your precious index falls 20% to 40% and you need money you have to take the loss. Slicing it up I start with the winners first and then work my way down to those that have fallen the less when I need the money which I don't because I live off the dividends taking the profits from the winners and parking them into short term bonds. As for being lucky for the short term, your right if you consider 40 years the short term and surviving 1987, 2000, 2008 and 2002. Also you are obviously a clueless person not knowing one reason the job market is so strong is because many retired seniors have taking a beaten with the 401K and have to go back to work. So unless you have the same options in your 401K that Hitchhiker has, you have sold your soul for free money by accepting a limited amount of choices and paying higher taxes unless your company offers you a 401K Roth which is relatively new. Oh, by the way 2 of those 11 sectors I have were up today, energy and consumer staples. 49 of my 100 funds were up and I had 0.13% gain on the day. So good luck with your match money. Oh by the way, just to flip you out even more, I have the same philosophy with social security. I paid as little as I could into it knowing full well that I would have a little check. I lived off rental income and dividends which are not subject to social security taxes. So, when I die, very little of my money went into social security so the government can take it when I die. Unlike my friends who paid the max into it and died before they could collect. Off course the sheep will say that if they were married, the surviving spouse will get the larger of the 2 checks. The larger of the 2 checks? That shows they are brain washed thinking they are getting free money. Why are they not getting both checks? I had a shirt made in the 80's. In front it said Pro-Choice. In the back it said Free Me From Social Security. Before people come out screaming how they cannot live without social security. I understand and I am not calling for it to end. It was just not for me and I could do better and I did not want the money to go to the government when I die. I wanted it to go where I wanted it to go.

 

[RENTER]

Hey Sherlock Holmes. He is posting on his Facebook page another Motley Fool article just for you. He asks that you share it with others who think we are fools. He hopes you share it. He says what we do is not for everybody but he hopes it makes people think.

Again, my connection to him centers around He Makes Money It for Us. That will only tell you our connection. Then you should be happy because then you are going to have to go on another search for my name and that would require hacking of computers.

 

[RENTER]

View attachment 82674

But those who are curious and want to learn are and have questions for me.

 

[HitchHiker71]

MODERATOR POST

Locking this thread as it is no longer serving any useful purpose as it relates to Club Wyndham. If those who would like to debate non-relevant topics wish to continue - that’s why we have a TUG Lounge area.