FSA 2 Two Bedroom Gold weeks for 12K

[chalucky]

This price is unbelieveable for the Four Seasons Aviara

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=370118558237

 

[eal]

Those mf's - ouch!

 

[GregGH]

Hello

The price reflects the economic times - in two years the buyer will look like a rocket scientist.

The MF's - people who like CLEAN and NEW will pay that. People who like tired, worn & soiled pay $500

There will probably be more people dumping things ... the seller didn't get much action on the other things ( the tired -the worn - the soiled )

Greg

ps - owners of Aviara - see the poll of who you are ....
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85930

 

[mav]

I was at the Four Seasons a few weeks ago. That resort is incredible, definitely a cut above the rest! We have stayed at some top drawer places but this is over the top in service!

 

[tombo]

The MF's - people who like CLEAN and NEW will pay that. People who like tired, worn & soiled pay $500

There will probably be more people dumping things ... the seller didn't get much action on the other things ( the tired -the worn - the soiled)[/url]

MF's are $1998 a week? I agree with the previous post of OUCH! For $2000 a week I can stay anywhere in the US I want at very luxurious accomodations (Hyatts, Hiltons, Ritz Carltons etc). That is almost $300 a night. Heck I am rarely in my room except for breakfast and to sleep so I could care less about granite counters, stainless steel appliances,luxurious curtains,valences, or crown moulding etc. In addition for the high MF's and high purchase price you only have 2 four seasons resorts to internally trade into as opposed to the hundreds of locations available when you buy into other chains.

On Redweek there are currently 9 owners trying to dump their CLEAN and NEW Aviara weeks. You can trade in to this resort with a week you paid $500 in MF's on if you are flexible on travel dates. That means that you get to stay in one of the best resorts in the world by trading in a worn out, tired resort with 1/4th of the MF's. There are also currently 34 weeks listed for rent on redweek at this 4 seasons resort. 8 of the weeks listed for rent on Redweek have asking prices at or below what the current MF's are. With a little negotiating who knows how cheaply one could rent those "clean and new rooms for". Renting for equal to MF's or lower sure beats paying $12,000 or more and still paying about $2000 a year just to stay there (even more when they eventually have to assess to renovate so they can make the resort CLEAN and NEW again).

My rule of thumb is that if I can rent a week for anywhere near the price of the MF's I usually don't buy there. If on the other hand it costs me 50% to 100% more to rent a week than it would cost me to stay there as an owner, I will consider buying there resale (if the outlay to purchase is not too high, I like the location, etc).

I personally have stayed in a lot of timeshares with MF's of around $500 to $800, and rarely has a room not been clean, and rarely was the furniture soiled. Some people assume that because something is 4 times more expensive it has to be 4 times better. That is not usually the case with timeshares from my experience. Better accomodations without a doubt, but not 4 times better to me.

 

[chalucky]

MF's are $1998 a week? I agree with the previous post of OUCH! For $2000 a week I can stay anywhere in the US I want at very luxurious accomodations (Hyatts, Hiltons, Ritz Carltons etc). That is almost $300 a night. Heck I am rarely in my room except for breakfast and to sleep so I could care less about granite counters, stainless steel appliances,luxurious curtains,valences, or crown moulding etc. In addition for the high MF's and high purchase price you only have 2 four seasons resorts to internally trade into as opposed to the hundreds of locations available when you buy into other chains

I personally have stayed in a lot of timeshares with MF's of around $500 to $800, and rarely has a room not been clean, and rarely was the furniture soiled. Some people assume that because something is 4 times more expensive it has to be 4 times better. That is not usually the case with timeshares from my experience. Better accomodations without a doubt, but not 4 times better to me.

Dude...there is nothing like the Aviara in the Timeshare World and nothing in the Hyatt, Marriott, or (for the most part) Ritz Carlton universe that compares
favorably with a Four Seasons. Yes the 2G MF gives me pause, but a 2BR 3BR Four Seasons Suite at one of the most beautiful locales in Southern California is what you are getting. (I should know, I live in Newport Coast). Buying allows you to choose the week you want as opposed to what trickles down to the rental sites. For the record I do not own at FSA, but trade in whenever fortune smiles on me.


I am guessing if you are never in the room as you say, a far more economical way to vacation with be a pup tent and a shower at the local Y...have fun

 

[tombo]

I am guessing if you are never in the room as you say, a far more economical way to vacation with be a pup tent and a shower at the local Y...have fun

I would personally rather stay in an $800 a week nice condo than to stay in a $2000 a week super nice condo. That extra $1200 will pay for numerous meals eating out, a rental car for the week, air fare, and/or many other activites I would rather spend my hard earned money on.

I might not demand the finest accomodations, but I do prefer to have indoor plumbing, hot water showers, at least one flush toilet, central heat and A/C, a full kitchen, a door that locks, and a couple of TV's (they don't have to be flat screen) with cable.

That being said, when I go to the Nascar races at Talladega I do rough it in a pop-up camper. For the better part of a week many of the above amenities are missing (flush toilets, central heat and A/C, full kitchen,and a shower indoors where I sleep). In spite of not having luxurious digs I love the trip whenever I can make it. Before you knock it, try cooking outdoors, hanging around the campfire with friends, telling stories, and having a few drinks every night if you want to really get relaxed and forget about work. That is a joy that no timeshares (including 4 Seasons) can offer their guests.

In addition to camping, some of the best trips I have ever been on were to Yosemite and Yellowstone where the rooms in the National Parks don't have a TV, a kitchen, or room service. I have never stayed in a timeshare with furniture in worse shape and with less amentities than those national park rooms, but you better reserve one of those tired, worn, and soiled rooms a year in advance or you won't get one.

For me going on the trip itself, sightseeing, hiking, swimming, snorkeling, boogie boarding,snow skiing, going to theme parks, exploring local stores, eating at local restaurants, and experiencing other things I can't do at home are why I vacation. I live every day in a nice home with cable in every room, flat screen TV's, WiFi, nice screened in deck overlooking a 2 acre yard, several bathrooms, full kitchen, and any of the other amenities you could want. I don't have a view of the Ocean, the mountains, or a lake from my deck like I do at most of my timeshares. I go on vacation to see different and unique sights, to revel in different cultures, to enjoy geographically unique cuisines, to watch wildlife, and to experience many other things that are not available in my area. If I wanted to go on vacation just to stay in a nice room with a lot of amenities I might as well stay home.

 

[chalucky]

Reasonable and thoughtful response...but to a large extent, not pertinent to the question at hand; Is there any time of interval ownership worth 2,000 a year in maintenance fees in addition to the (albeit reduced) purchase cost? Especially when more modestly priced timeshare vacations are so readily available.

The answer, of course, depends where you sit. Some people would like their
accommodations to be 5* in every sense. Twice daily maid sevice, 24 hour concierge, free childcare, calling the front desk and getting an enthusiastic yes to everything you request....etc.,etc. The Four Seasons is not for everyone but it is for me.

 

[zentraveler]

I would personally rather stay in an $800 a week nice condo than to stay in a $2000 a week super nice condo. That extra $1200 will pay for numerous meals eating out, a rental car for the week, air fare, and/or many other activites I would rather spend my hard earned money on

.

My father had a saying "That's what makes horse races..." meaning that if everyone wanted the same thing we would not really have any choices.

Clearly tombo is happy with where he choses to own for his MF, and he gets what he wants. As a 10 year owner at FSA, I know that I do not have the most reasonable MF or the most generous exchange program. My trade-off is that I have used my time to stay at some of the greatest hotels and resorts in the world (George IV in Paris, FS Chinzan-so Tokyo, Nevis, Buenos Aires etc.) and have been able to follow the favorable currency exchanges and dips to do this. I am about to start also exchanging my time and will be happy to be in the position that I am in with a 1BDRM lockoff that will exchange for 2 weeks to trade anywhere in the world where I want to travel. I will have the wonderful staff at the Owner Services desk at the Four Seasons and those the Four Seasons desk at II to help, and the bargaining power of the property that will get me to places like the Phillips Club in New York.

But it is only worth the MF because this is what matters to me and the increment in MF $$ is worth it. If this sort of thing doesn't matter then you are lucky . That is what makes horse races .

 

[tombo]

Reasonable and thoughtful response...but to a large extent, not pertinent to the question at hand; Is there any time of interval ownership worth 2,000 a year in maintenance fees in addition to the (albeit reduced) purchase cost? Especially when more modestly priced timeshare vacations are so readily available.

The answer, of course, depends where you sit. Some people would like their
accommodations to be 5* in every sense. Twice daily maid sevice, 24 hour concierge, free childcare, calling the front desk and getting an enthusiastic yes to everything you request....etc.,etc. The Four Seasons is not for everyone but it is for me.

You stated previously that you don't own at Four Seasons, so you obviously feel that FS is only for you if it means that you personally don't have have to pay the huge outlay to purchase and the huge $2000 annual MF's. Four Seasons is apparently for you as long as you can trade into the resort using a week you own with reasonable MF's. You answered your own question about whether it is worth $2000 a year or not loud and clear with your lack of personal ownership at the resort.

I too love being able to trade a week I own with $700 or $800 MF's, and be able for a small exchange fee to stay in resorts like Four Seasons which has $2000 annual MF's, and other resorts in locations like Aruba and Maui which have MF's approaching $2000 a year.... Heck, using that criteria, Four Seasons is for me too.

 

[Cathyb]

chalucky: Might you have a vested interest in this property??? I believe there is a comparable Marriott to the Four Seasons -- in Phuket and we stayed there on the JW Marriott hotel property but the timeshare part.

IMHO the average timeshare buyer is not the upper echelon of financial existence and therefore may feel even 'uncomfortable' with the perks that come with a Four Seasons -- like daily housekeeping. Personally having to 'hide' all your valuables every cleaning day is a little bothersome for me.

That said, we are going to experience Four Seasons Aviara in two weeks even though we live just 10 minutes away to see if my gut feelings are correct. Exchanged into their studio with our 'not fancy' Marriott DSV-I studio.

 

[Cathyb]

zentraveler -- you make very good 'horse sense'! Living in Carlsbad, we toured Four Seasons Aviara in its infancy. It truly is a beautiful resort and we have eaten many Friday Seafood Buffet dinners there

As a matter of fact we saw the Four Seasons hotel 'shell' sit on the hill unfinished for over 2-4 years, vacated by bankrupt investors -- way back when.

 

[GregGH]

Where is Steamboat Bill when you need him. I credit him for the concept of cost per night ( search other threads especially in non-traditional )

The cost of a unit should not be JUST the purchase price and then bitch on MF's. The cost is a BLEND of purchase and yearly MF's

Who is better off - someone who buys for $34,000 ( like Hawaii or new Marriott ) and has $1000 in mF or someone who pays $12,000 & pays $2100 in MF"s ? Bill & others would take purchase x 5% as opportunity cost + MF/7 = cost per night

34,000 x 5% = 1,700 / 7 = $243/night
1000 MF / 7 ========= $142/night
TOTAL cost per night ==== $385/night

12,000 x 5 % =600 / 7 = $ 85/night
2100 MF / 7 ========= $300/night
TOTAL cost per night ====$385/ night

So --it is not one or the other ( purchase or MF ) it is the SUM and if you are happy and feel you get value for that dollar amount.

If you typically pay ( and your comfort level ) is less than $385/night - then a FOUR SEASONS unit is not for you.

The thread started with the sale at $6,000 a week for a FS --so that person lowered his/her weekly cost by approx $42.50 a night - that person got a deal - but still just a $42 deal.

Greg

 

[e.bram]

Is OP buying or selling? looks like a shill post to me.

 

[e.bram]

No TS not directly on the ocean is worth that kind money and MFs.IMHO Not on the ocean is inland. One block or ten miles all the same to me INLAND.

 

[bnoble]

Nothing like an uneqivocal statement on preferences, about which reasonable people may differ.

 

[Sir Newf]

...I wish we had more vacation time, we would certainly purchase another FSA at some of these recent prices-----it may not be for everyone to spend $2k on maint. fees, but for those of us who appreciate the splendor, beauty, service and graciousness garnered at FSA---it certainly is worth every dime!....on the other hand, having lived in New England an visited most TS there, I can't say that for me they are worth the price and fees.....but then again, that's why they sell Fords and Mercedes....it's all good, they just have different appeals.....By the way, I also enjoy my little Laguna Shores---very basic, clean, well run TS that runs $400 annual maint....

 

[chalucky]

chalucky: Might you have a vested interest in this property???

Yes, I have a 1BR trade in two weeks, a 1 BR in January and a studio in April and I hope the resort doesn't tumble into the lagoon ...I guess that is a vested interest.

 

[chalucky]

chalucky: I believe there is a comparable Marriott to the Four Seasons -- in Phuket and we stayed there on the JW Marriott hotel property but the timeshare part.

Never been to Phuket....I am an owner at four Marriott Resorts (including Ko'olina, which is one of the newer ones) and I would be truly surprised if most people seriously put FSA and any Marriott property in the same universe. JMHO.

I love my Marriotts...in fact that's why I couldn't consider buying any more timeshares (even FSA at these extraordinary discounts)...I, unfortunately, just do not enough vacation for the vacation ownership interests I currently have.

 

[chalucky]

chalucky: That said, we are going to experience Four Seasons Aviara in two weeks even though we live just 10 minutes away to see if my gut feelings are correct. Exchanged into their studio with our 'not fancy' Marriott DSV-I studio.

Try and stick your nose into the 1 BR side and have a look...studio is nice, but the larger side really is amazing. Also, holiday decorations should be up which are spectacular.

 

[dfjkl]

Where is Steamboat Bill when you need him. I credit him for the concept of cost per night ( search other threads especially in non-traditional )

The cost of a unit should not be JUST the purchase price and then bitch on MF's. The cost is a BLEND of purchase and yearly MF's

Who is better off - someone who buys for $34,000 ( like Hawaii or new Marriott ) and has $1000 in mF or someone who pays $12,000 & pays $2100 in MF"s ? Bill & others would take purchase x 5% as opportunity cost + MF/7 = cost per night

34,000 x 5% = 1,700 / 7 = $243/night
1000 MF / 7 ========= $142/night
TOTAL cost per night ==== $385/night

12,000 x 5 % =600 / 7 = $ 85/night
2100 MF / 7 ========= $300/night
TOTAL cost per night ====$385/ night

So --it is not one or the other ( purchase or MF ) it is the SUM and if you are happy and feel you get value for that dollar amount.

If you typically pay ( and your comfort level ) is less than $385/night - then a FOUR SEASONS unit is not for you.

The thread started with the sale at $6,000 a week for a FS --so that person lowered his/her weekly cost by approx $42.50 a night - that person got a deal - but still just a $42 deal.

Greg

Even this isn't necessarily a true indication of total cost though, it's actually less when you consider that you pay your purchase price once so you basically have to spread that cost out over the total years of ownership (or depreciate that cost /year).

So something like this:

34,000 x 5% = 1,700 / 7 = $243/night

Is really something like this:

(34,000 x 5% = 1,700 / 7) / # of years.

 

[Cathyb]

chalucky: Remember we live in Carlsbad and agree the decorations are great; however last year's Christmas tree auction was real sick. The trees were scrawny and poorly decorated.

 

[bnoble]

it's actually less when you consider that you pay your purchase price once so you basically have to spread that cost out over the total years of ownership

Only if you ignore the time value of money.

Of course, if you don't believe money has a time-value, I'd gladly borrow $10K from you today, and pay you back $1K/year over the next ten years.

 

[tombo]

Who is better off - someone who buys for $34,000 ( like Hawaii or new Marriott ) and has $1000 in mF or someone who pays $12,000 & pays $2100 in MF"s ?

Greg

The biggest problem with your comparison is that you are using extremelly high retail prices of $34,000 for Hawaii, and comparing that inflated retail price to the resale price of $12,000 (still too high) for FS Aviara. Plug in $6000 to $10,000 for current Hawaii resale prices (many non Marriott Hawaii prices are currently $500 or less for 2 bed rooms) and see how the cost per night computes. Then figure in a $500 purchase with $700 annual MF's that you can trade for the Four Seasons for no additional cost (other than a small exchange fee) and compare that cost per night.

 

[GregGH]

The biggest problem with your comparison is that you are using extremelly high retail prices of $34,000 for Hawaii, and comparing that inflated retail price to the resale price of $12,000 (still too high) for FS Aviara. Plug in $6000 to $10,000 for current Hawaii resale prices (many non Marriott Hawaii prices are currently $500 or less for 2 bed rooms) and see how the cost per night computes. Then figure in a $500 purchase with $700 annual MF's that you can trade for the Four Seasons for no additional cost (other than a small exchange fee) and compare that cost per night.

You are absolutely right on the above - there is a cheap way to get into Aviara! The same way it is CHEAPER to rent a week than to buy a week (almost anywhere). With that said - there is a 'joy of ownership' at some places and I think this is one - may others find this same feeling ..

My point was to look at BOTH the purchase price and MF together to see the cost of your nights and to NOT begrudge MF's that that is what keeps your location looking new and clean.

But - since you brought it up -- one has to wonder WHY Aviara works with II? I have another post asking on the outcome of the HI-END II trading company similar to RCI's Registry Collection --where the trades are a fit more equal. Link here >>> http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44837

Greg