Frustrated buyers remorse with Wyndham

[Islander55]

Hi All, 1st post and want to introduce myself and pose a question or two. I have a wife and 3 kids and bought a wyndham timeshare about 4 years ago. I like the idea of the time share and have taken advantage of all my points and got quite a few nice vacations so far. The cost was very high and I was taken in by the "inflation sales pitch" and thought it was worth the gamble; as i could see a breakeven point in the future. But as I go, each meeting seems to push me towards achieving the VIP status, or 300K points. If I dont, Im gonna regret what I already purchased. They keep trying to sell me on the extra Holidays program to supplement the costs, but I just dont see that making that much money. I know they are salesman and Its like they are getting me to buy the undercoating like a used car salesman, but I truly felt that I would gain value in the long run. At this point I am $40k in, and at 236K points and feel like I am going to have to spend the other $13K or so to get to this coveted VIP level. I figure even if I start doing some resell on my own, it would be better to have that level achieved. This way, i can still use some for myself and some for resell to offset the costs.
Im glad to be involved in a forum, because all i get when I call Wyndham are just get more and more of a sales pitch.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Lonnie

 

[bnoble]

f I dont, Im gonna regret what I already purchased.

This is classic Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. They can't quite articulate why you will regret it, only that you will.

To put it another way: Why is Bronze VIP so coveted? You get some very modest discounts on "last minute" reservations, an extra housekeeping credit and a few extra guest certificates. Those might save you a few dollars here and there. It will take a LONG time for those to save you $13K---if they ever do.

You may want more points someday, just for your own vacation needs. If you do, buy them on the resale market for a dime (or less) on the dollar. True, you won't get the infrequent 15% discount, but you will have an extra $10K in your pocket, at least.

However, whatever you do, DO NOT buy Wyndham points with the plan to rent them out routinely. That's a recipe for genuine disappointment.

 

[Islander55]

This is classic Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. They can't quite articulate why you will regret it, only that you will.

To put it another way: Why is Bronze VIP so coveted? You get some very modest discounts on "last minute" reservations, an extra housekeeping credit and a few extra guest certificates. Those might save you a few dollars here and there. It will take a LONG time for those to save you $13K---if they ever do.

You may want more points someday, just for your own vacation needs. If you do, buy them on the resale market for a dime (or less) on the dollar. True, you won't get the infrequent 15% discount, but you will have an extra $10K in your pocket, at least.

However, whatever you do, DO NOT buy Wyndham points with the plan to rent them out routinely. That's a recipe for genuine disappointment.

Thank you for the info. I stressed some of those exact points, but when you are sitting at the meetings, they always seem to get me to 2nd guess myself. I really appreciate your insight.

 

[BoomerKwanger]

I frequently see points being "rented" out on the Facebook pages for around $7/thousand....so if you were to do the same with the 236k points in your current contract, you would stand to net about $1,652 each year based on that market average. But also consider:
- It would be a lot of work to find people to rent out to, which doesn't sound fun
- You would need to trust/depend on random strangers to pay you properly
- You'd have no points left over to actually vacation with
- Lastly, the $1652 you make (that's IF you manged to exactly rent all your points) might not even break even with what you're paying on maintenance fees.

For these reasons, Wyndham owners on this forum generally steer people away from renting points, and only owning enough points to use on their own vacations. That is, after all, the point of the timeshare - to enjoy vacations.

As for VIP, Bronze is honestly not that good, since a 15% discount on reservations within 60 days is not that good. If you're paying around $7/thousand in maintenance fees right now, then consider that buying a resale contract at a place like National Harbor or PCB (which you can probably get a ~236k contract of on eBay for around $1500) essentially gets you a 20% discount on ALL reservations you make relative to what you're spending now due to the cheaper maintenance fees. (MFs at those resorts is 4.86/thousand this year, plus the program fee of .70/thousand, equaling 5.56/thousand)

In terms of buyers remorse, you have no reason to feel that way! If you've taken advantage of all your points and gotten a few nice vacations so far, then you're doing everything right! Timeshare is about making memories and enjoying your time off. If not for your purchase, you would not have had those memories and you probably wouldn't have found TUG!

Just stop going to sales meetings and buy more resale

 

[CPNY]

Thank you for the info. I stressed some of those exact points, but when you are sitting at the meetings, they always seem to get me to 2nd guess myself. I really appreciate your insight.

If you second guess yourself it means they won, dont let them win. You know what's best for you and your family. Buying more is most likely not in your family's best interest. You're 40K in already, I wouldnt give them another dime.

 

[bnoble]

Just stop going to sales meetings

This. There is NO REASON to attend any “owner update”. You are not going to convince the sales person that your plan to not buy from them is a good one. They do this every day all day, and they have much more experience so they are probably better at selling than you are at saying no.

 

[scootr5]

Thank you for the info. I stressed some of those exact points, but when you are sitting at the meetings, they always seem to get me to 2nd guess myself. I really appreciate your insight.

Stop going to the presentations....

 

[DRIless]

if I start doing some resell on my own, it would be better to have that level achieved. This way, i can still use some for myself and some for resell to offset the costs.
Im glad to be involved in a forum, because all i get when I call Wyndham are just get more and more of a sales pitch.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Lonnie

Renting out your ownership is what you're talking about doing, reselling is selling your ownership.
Renting is not an easy thing to do. Wyndham is cracking down and taking over online outlets with agreements with outfits like Airbnb where they get all your info, I would advise on not going down that path, it's more trouble than it is worth at the scale you're talking about.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I hate to tell you this, but I have been giving away large contracts, some with 600-740,000 points, and all the new owners are paying is closing and transfer costs, with the Wyndham transfer fee of $299, which is one of the highest in the industry. And they take 4-6 months to do the transfer, which is disgusting, in my opinion. Sure, the owners get no benefits, but how many benefits do you get with your $40K purchase?

I still keep my Wyndham Founder's status. We own about 3.5 million points with that status. But I can promise you we didn't pay anywhere near what you paid for your small number of points. We converted floating weeks on Kauai at Bali Hai and Shearwater years ago, 16 years ago, to be exact.

We were "mega renters" and received a nasty letter from Wyndham almost two years ago to stop renting commercially. Our daughter ran the business for us to make an income for herself, and now she is looking for other work she can do from home, and that is tough right now because everyone wants to stay home and make a living.

I understand that Wyndham wants all of the rentals. We were direct competition for Wyndham. That is corporate's job, to stop the mega renters, which is fine. I have been chastized. Wyndham didn't hurt my feelings at all. BUT, when the salespeople talk about renting to pay your fees, and using Wyndham to do that, you need to know that they don't guarantee anything. If you book something with your points, and you offer it through Extra Holidays, good luck in getting that rented. The terms of the rental are that the rental can be cancelled up to two days before, last I heard. Then you are out all of your points, and they take their sweet time about paying you, too.

 

[Islander55]

I frequently see points being "rented" out on the Facebook pages for around $7/thousand....so if you were to do the same with the 236k points in your current contract, you would stand to net about $1,652 each year based on that market average. But also consider:
- It would be a lot of work to find people to rent out to, which doesn't sound fun
- You would need to trust/depend on random strangers to pay you properly
- You'd have no points left over to actually vacation with
- Lastly, the $1652 you make (that's IF you managed to exactly rent all your points) might not even break even with what you're paying on maintenance fees.

For these reasons, Wyndham owners on this forum generally steer people away from renting points, and only owning enough points to use on their own vacations. That is, after all, the point of the timeshare - to enjoy vacations.

As for VIP, Bronze is honestly not that good, since a 15% discount on reservations within 60 days is not that good. If you're paying around $7/thousand in maintenance fees right now, then consider that buying a resale contract at a place like National Harbor or PCB (which you can probably get a ~236k contract of on eBay for around $1500) essentially gets you a 20% discount on ALL reservations you make relative to what you're spending now due to the cheaper maintenance fees. (MFs at those resorts is 4.86/thousand this year, plus the program fee of .70/thousand, equaling 5.56/thousand)

In terms of buyers remorse, you have no reason to feel that way! If you've taken advantage of all your points and gotten a few nice vacations so far, then you're doing everything right! Timeshare is about making memories and enjoying your time off. If not for your purchase, you would not have had those memories and you probably wouldn't have found TUG!

Just stop going to sales meetings and buy more resale

Solid Intel! Thank you! I see the mention of buying resale mentioned a bunch. I have no reason to do that at the moment, as I am only considering because I was thinking of achieving that VIP status, which has been clearly explained not worth it. but how does that all get mixed in with the rest of my current points if I was to buy Wyndham?

 

[Islander55]

This. There is NO REASON to attend any “owner update”. You are not going to convince the sales person that your plan to not buy from them is a good one. They do this every day all day, and they have much more experience so they are probably better at selling than you are at saying no.

I say that I am not going to attend on every vacation. But they offer something that I cant turn down and I always say I am going to set a timer and leave,but always end up frustrated. I asked for $300 cash once and they gave me food vouchers for that amount. How can I say no for 45 minutes. I just wish I joined here before my last purchase.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Solid Intel! Thank you! I see the mention of buying resale mentioned a bunch. I have no reason to do that at the moment, as I am only considering because I was thinking of achieving that VIP status, which has been clearly explained not worth it. but how does that all get mixed in with the rest of my current points if I was to buy Wyndham?

The only developer path remotely worthwhile, if you already own 236k points, is to pick up two PIC Plus contracts worth 508k annual points, which would require another developer purchase to enroll the two PICs, figure a minimum of 98k additional developer points, after which you'd be up at VIPG with 236+508+98=842k points (VIPG level is 800k). If you would like to learn more about the PIC Plus program, here's a decent educational link: https://wyndhamexperts.org/index.php/2019/07/27/wyndham-pic-program/

I'm not advocating for any developer purchase here - I think if you find you need additional points resale is the most economical option by far - but if you're going to ever consider the additional purchase of developer points - PIC Plus to get up to VIPG would be the only path I would ever recommend for your scenario. The only reason to purchase developer points is to ladder up to VIP levels over time - VIP is totally about perceived value - you really cannot justify Wyndham VIP any longer from any ROI standpoint since Wyndham has whittled away at the program benefits over time (no more unlimited HKCs and everyone currently gets unlimited RTs these days - and renting points is no longer in vogue).

 

[bnoble]

But they offer something that I cant turn down

How much of your time, attention, and emotional energy has this consumed? Is it really worth a free dinner or two?

 

[Islander55]

Agreed.

 

[1Melanie]

Short term best to get resale. If you are planning long term, good to acquire developer points in small contracts over time. Ask about close outs, they are not as cheap as resale but are a lot less than buying at a new resort. You have to ask about it, it won’t be volunteered. Have a dollar amount in mind you are willing to spend and let them make it fit. They will try to tell you the decision needs to be made today but it doesn’t. Ask them to figure it out for you and call you only when they can. If they can’t, there’s always next time. They will ask you how much you can spend. Simply say “as little as possible.” No one needs to know what your budget is. Unless you can take the kids out of school it’s hard, but not impossible, to book at a high demand resort within 60 days. Many will say the perks are over rated. Depends. If you want to travel in retirement or without the kids, it’s worth it. It’s easier to take advantage of the discounts when you can travel off season. If you want to add your kids to your membership down the road, it’ll be a nice gift to them with all the perks but none of the upfront costs. All they’ll have to do is figure out how to get the maintenance fees paid. With a potential 60% discount, you can get the same usage with less maintenance fees. Don’t bother renting thru Extra Holidays. We tried once. You give them a block of time but there’s no guarantee they’ll rent the entire time out. They can rent out as little as 1 of however many days you give them and you eat the rest. Not very cost effective. You could rent out on other sites like Koala or red week but be careful to check on the restrictions established to protect high demand times and places for owners. We are long time owners and had resale and developer points at one time. A few years ago, we consolidated all our small contracts into one and unloaded a bunch of resale contracts and reduced the maintenance fees substantially. No longer beholden to our kids’ school schedules, we are able to use our discounts and have a potential 600-800,000 additional points without the maintenance fees that go with them AND our kids have been added to our biggest contract. They can now book their own reservations without using a guest confirmation. Having vacationed with us and understanding the value of the program, it doesn’t break their hearts at all knowing they’ll get to enjoy it after we no longer want to or are able to.

 

[DRIless]

Ask about close outs

Also called Wyndham Telesales, retail purchase credit on older contracts at about half the retail price.

 

[BoomerKwanger]

Solid Intel! Thank you! I see the mention of buying resale mentioned a bunch. I have no reason to do that at the moment, as I am only considering because I was thinking of achieving that VIP status, which has been clearly explained not worth it. but how does that all get mixed in with the rest of my current points if I was to buy Wyndham?

Plenty of people on this forum (but not me) have hybrid accounts...basically Wyndham just divides up your points into 2 separate buckets: developer points and resale points. When you go book a place, you can choose which bucket to pull the points from. Points pulled from the developer bucket will confer those respective benefits (i.e. ability to book ClubPass, the 60 day discount, ability for free upgrade if those are available etc.)

The general strategy with hybrid accounts is to use the resale points to book larger/harder to get units right at the 10 month mark, and then save the VIP points for cheaper off-season/shoulder season reservations to get the discount at 60 days. This seems to let them stretch their MFs quite far vacation-wise.

 

[bnoble]

I'm not 100% sure the points are separated in an account that (a) has developer-purchased points but (b) does not qualify for a VIP level. If not, that makes it even simpler, because you'll just have one bucket of points.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Plenty of people on this forum (but not me) have hybrid accounts...basically Wyndham just divides up your points into 2 separate buckets: developer points and resale points. When you go book a place, you can choose which bucket to pull the points from. Points pulled from the developer bucket will confer those respective benefits (i.e. ability to book ClubPass, the 60 day discount, ability for free upgrade if those are available etc.)

The general strategy with hybrid accounts is to use the resale points to book larger/harder to get units right at the 10 month mark, and then save the VIP points for cheaper off-season/shoulder season reservations to get the discount at 60 days. This seems to let them stretch their MFs quite far vacation-wise.

Last time I checked (as everything is seemingly subject to change these days), the member website will only display separate Developer and Resale points buckets if you are a VIP owner. If you are a non-VIP owner that also has resale points - then all points are intermixed - as there is no need for the online system to differentiate between retail and resale points because they behave the same. If you want to use Club Pass - which cannot be booked online today - you can check your Benefits Summary page to see the subset of your developer points that are Club Pass Eligible - though I don't believe it actually tracks how many points are actually available for the use year (i.e. how many of your Developer points have already been used). Likely when you call in and speak with a VC - they will be able to tell you how many points are actually Club Pass eligible for the specific use year in scope - but that's just speculation on my part. Screenshot below for reference:

 

[Islander55]

Short term best to get resale. If you are planning long term, good to acquire developer points in small contracts over time. Ask about close outs, they are not as cheap as resale but are a lot less than buying at a new resort. You have to ask about it, it won’t be volunteered. Have a dollar amount in mind you are willing to spend and let them make it fit. They will try to tell you the decision needs to be made today but it doesn’t. Ask them to figure it out for you and call you only when they can. If they can’t, there’s always next time. They will ask you how much you can spend. Simply say “as little as possible.” No one needs to know what your budget is. Unless you can take the kids out of school it’s hard, but not impossible, to book at a high demand resort within 60 days. Many will say the perks are over rated. Depends. If you want to travel in retirement or without the kids, it’s worth it. It’s easier to take advantage of the discounts when you can travel off season. If you want to add your kids to your membership down the road, it’ll be a nice gift to them with all the perks but none of the upfront costs. All they’ll have to do is figure out how to get the maintenance fees paid. With a potential 60% discount, you can get the same usage with less maintenance fees. Don’t bother renting thru Extra Holidays. We tried once. You give them a block of time but there’s no guarantee they’ll rent the entire time out. They can rent out as little as 1 of however many days you give them and you eat the rest. Not very cost effective. You could rent out on other sites like Koala or red week but be careful to check on the restrictions established to protect high demand times and places for owners. We are long time owners and had resale and developer points at one time. A few years ago, we consolidated all our small contracts into one and unloaded a bunch of resale contracts and reduced the maintenance fees substantially. No longer beholden to our kids’ school schedules, we are able to use our discounts and have a potential 600-800,000 additional points without the maintenance fees that go with them AND our kids have been added to our biggest contract. They can now book their own reservations without using a guest confirmation. Having vacationed with us and understanding the value of the program, it doesn’t break their hearts at all knowing they’ll get to enjoy it after we no longer want to or are able to.

Thank you for taking the time to share. So many possibilities. I dont need to add points at the moment. I generally take 2 main vacations (1 with kids and 1 without) and try and squeeze an off season 3rd in as well. Im quite overwhelmed by the possibilities. I would love to figure out a better way to defer some maintenance costs, but i dont think i have enough points currently to do that. I dont even know how to start if I was to buy resale? Plus Im not sure what close outs are.

 

[Islander55]

Last time I checked (as everything is seemingly subject to change these days), the member website will only display separate Developer and Resale points buckets if you are a VIP owner. If you are a non-VIP owner that also has resale points - then all points are intermixed - as there is no need for the online system to differentiate between retail and resale points because they behave the same. If you want to use Club Pass - which cannot be booked online today - you can check your Benefits Summary page to see the subset of your developer points that are Club Pass Eligible - though I don't believe it actually tracks how many points are actually available for the use year (i.e. how many of your Developer points have already been used). Likely when you call in and speak with a VC - they will be able to tell you how many points are actually Club Pass eligible for the specific use year in scope - but that's just speculation on my part. Screenshot below for reference:

View attachment 76279

Thank you for showing me your breakdown. Currently I am set to lose my temporary VIP in June 2024. All of my 231000 are club pass eligible and half are ARP eligible and none are CWP eligible. Thank you.

 

[RENTER]

Plenty of people on this forum (but not me) have hybrid accounts...basically Wyndham just divides up your points into 2 separate buckets: developer points and resale points. When you go book a place, you can choose which bucket to pull the points from. Points pulled from the developer bucket will confer those respective benefits (i.e. ability to book ClubPass, the 60 day discount, ability for free upgrade if those are available etc.)

The general strategy with hybrid accounts is to use the resale points to book larger/harder to get units right at the 10 month mark, and then save the VIP points for cheaper off-season/shoulder season reservations to get the discount at 60 days. This seems to let them stretch their MFs quite far vacation-wise.

You are correct. Before the split up, I rarely tried for those larger/hard to get units at the 10 month mark. I waited until the 60 days to get the discounts. But when they made the exchange, I simply adjusted and did exactly what you said. It was no big deal for me since my resales have low maintenance fees. That is one big advantage of resales. You can see what is available and I was able to pick out the low maintenance fee resorts. With developer points you have to depend on them telling you what is available unless you have a salesperson who you trust and is honest with you.

 

[1Melanie]

Thank you for taking the time to share. So many possibilities. I dont need to add points at the moment. I generally take 2 main vacations (1 with kids and 1 without) and try and squeeze an off season 3rd in as well. Im quite overwhelmed by the possibilities. I would love to figure out a better way to defer some maintenance costs, but i dont think i have enough points currently to do that. I dont even know how to start if I was to buy resale? Plus Im not sure what close outs are.

Someone pointed out to me they’re called TELESALES. EBAY is a great place to pick up resales and is kind of fun to do. TUG also has several postings. Some for free.

 

[Islander55]

Someone pointed out to me they’re called TELESALES. EBAY is a great place to pick up resales and is kind of fun to do. TUG also has several postings. Some for free.

I have been reviewing some of the resales and the prices. Im blown away. I assume they just want out and dont want maintenance fees any longer? I can purchase resale points for basically nothing and then I would be the full time owner and just pick up the maintenance fees? Do these resale purchases have all the same privileges? I understand that they wouldnt count as developer and wouldnt be totaled to gather VIP access, but otherwise, just normal vacations and bookings?
Thanks.

 

[jwalk03]

I have been reviewing some of the resales and the prices. Im blown away. I assume they just want out and dont want maintenance fees any longer? I can purchase resale points for basically nothing and then I would be the full time owner and just pick up the maintenance fees? Do these resale purchases have all the same privileges? I understand that they wouldnt count as developer and wouldnt be totaled to gather VIP access, but otherwise, just normal vacations and bookings?
Thanks.

Normal vacations and bookings with resale points. No VIP status, and they cannot be used for ClubPass reservations (WorldMark) but otherwise they work exactly the same for Club Wyndham reservations.