• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Forbes article re: Wyndham timeshare problems

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,355
Reaction score
18,924
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Much like the mortgage market I am sure that the secondary market for TS loans dried up due to the higher risk involved.
 

BocaBum99

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
4
Points
323
Location
Boca Raton, FL
Here is my favorite line:

She said growing Wyndham's hotel business, particularly internationally, will also help balance. Wilson said customers continue to buy timeshares, despite the struggling economy, though "they have to be coaxed a little bit."

I wonder how much more "coaxing" they do than normal. I am currently at the Wyndham Royal Vista in Pompano Beach and I get a note on my door every day to attend an owner update for $75. I guess they feel a need to do that since I don't answer the phone in the unit.
 

x3 skier

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
5,266
Reaction score
2,295
Points
649
Location
Ohio and Colorado
Resorts Owned
Steamboat Grand, The West,
Raintree and, formerly, The Allen House
I wonder if the Coaxing involves the use of firearms. :p

Cheers
 

Aussiedog

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
662
Reaction score
4
Points
378
Location
North Carolina
This is the line that I love.....when she is talking about how to continue to access the asset-backed securities market for liquidity.

"pledging a mortgage as collateral for a loan - known as hypothecation."

So, seems to me that the savvy purchaser would require her to place a true market value on that mortgaged timeshare.....maybe she should check TUG classifieds?

Ann
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,355
Reaction score
18,924
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
This is the line that I love.....when she is talking about how to continue to access the asset-backed securities market for liquidity.

"pledging a mortgage as collateral for a loan - known as hypothecation."

So, seems to me that the savvy purchaser would require her to place a true market value on that mortgaged timeshare.....maybe she should check TUG classifieds?

Ann

I think it would be rare that a TS mortgagee would be upside down in their TS at least from a developer reselling that unit. If the developer takes a unit in forclosure and resells it they should get back more than the loan amount. However I would think they would buy the unit back at auction and only pay 10% of what it is worth and leave the holder of the mortgage on the hook for the rest. I am sure a holder of those mortgages wouldn't be happy with this arrangment?
 

hunkyleebo

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
218
Reaction score
4
Points
378
Location
Orlando, FL
I was surprised that she 2/3 of their buyers are using their financing. I wonder what interest rates they're paying.

I prefer to buy resale timeshares that are cheap enough that I don't need to finance them!
 

Timeshare Von

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
7,031
Reaction score
1,637
Points
599
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Resorts Owned
Wyndham (77k points at Myrtle Beach/Westwinds)
I was surprised that she 2/3 of their buyers are using their financing. I wonder what interest rates they're paying.

I prefer to buy resale timeshares that are cheap enough that I don't need to finance them!

Last TS presentation we did that got that far into the financing discussion, it was 19% . . . that was about 18 mos ago.
 

Cathyb

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,935
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Careful Jim :) They may put a trap outside your door to catch you as you leave.
 

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
12,760
Reaction score
1,699
Points
498
Location
Northeast USA
Let me call Barbara (the mature lady) and Lisa (the blonde) at the Guest Services for you, Jim.:wave: :wave:
 

massvacationer

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
737
Reaction score
1
Points
378
Location
MA
paragraph from the article

interesting article. What does the paragraph (below) from the article mean? That Wyndham might consider spinning-off or selling the timeshare business?

"Wilson said Wyndham is focused on educating the public about the value of its timeshare business. But she said the company would not rule out alternative ownership structures for the segment if shareholder value continues to sink."
 

MaryH

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2005
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
1
Points
398
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Well, I think Wyndham has a number of timeshare in places where real estate value are dropping significantly and foreclosure are up. Also if so high a percentage of people are using financing, and maybe got talked into purchase they cannot afford, lots of implications.

In this cycle of dropping real estate prices, tight financing, high forclosures, CC going amok, there must be a significant portion of people that need to let their TS go, get foreclosed on their TS or even declare bankrupcy. All this is not good if Wyndham is using ABCP to offload some of their "mortgages" to unspecting investors in the past who are either losing their shirt or no longer willing to take the risk in this frozen capital market.

I think what they meant is that they might split off their TS into a separate company so that share price would tank on 1 sub/company rather than the whole thing. I think Wyndham is the new umbrella where they put RCI, the Wyndham hotels they purchased, and the Fairfield TSs. The hotels are probably still doing well and RCI is trying to squeeze more $ out of the exchanges and membership fees (full disclosure, I let my RCI membership elapse in Sept and keeping II and SFX Platinum). I think hotel would be the next shoe to drop sometime next year since I know some companies are starting to cut business travel.
 

acesneights

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
334
Reaction score
1
Points
16
Location
Charlotte, NC
Not upside down!!!

A WYN FSP points purchase is at the bottom of the Marianas Trench as soon as you can't rescind.

A mortgage holder has worthless collateral that isn't even worth foreclosing on. FSP points are going to PC companies for disposal.

People are paying to rid of the MF obligation.

With the credit markets seized up WYN is probably having to hold the paper on their $200/K sales themselves. When a buyer defaults, they have to write off the paper and then pay to resell the points all over again.

No wonder they want to spin this off.

Auto sales are down 1/3 because buyers can't get financing.

Stan
 
Top