Florida

[DancingWaters]

I’ve been reading that Florida is raising taxes or maintenance fees on timeshares in Florida. Anyone have info on this?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I’ve been reading that Florida is raising taxes or maintenance fees on timeshares in Florida. Anyone have info on this?

Likely what you’re describing are the Florida laws and regulations that were passed in the wake of the condo collapse that required reserves to be fully funded. This happened several years ago already, the impact has largely already been felt at the Wyndham properties.

With that said, I don’t know that I would ever want to own a beachfront timeshare in Florida. The increasing number and strength of hurricanes hitting the state coupled with the collapse of the insurance market in FL make that a really dicey proposition.

 

[Floridaman76]

Condos (timeshares included) are having to comply with a law that requires mandatory inspections and maintenance plans as well as legally mandated reserve funding. This is due to a condo collapse in south florida a few years ago that killed a bunch of people. The root cause was deferred maintenance and lax inspections.

Condos in Florida are infamous for this because owners don't want to pay maintenance. They want their cake and eat it to. So this is kind of a wakeup call to the industry as a whole.

Timeshares are caught up in it because they have to comply, but largely I would have to assume that most of them are already doing maintenance so it should not be as big of a hit. But residential condos in some cases are getting hit with BIG special assessments and COA fee increases to comply with the law.

Florida is full of retired people who hoard their money, so of course they don't like it. But also, they probably also don't want to die because they didn't want to spend a couple more grand each year to keep their building from collapsing.

 

[andre10056]

With that said, I don’t know that I would ever want to own a beachfront timeshare in Florida. The increasing number and strength of hurricanes hitting the state coupled with the collapse of the insurance market in FL make that a really dicey proposition.

I've actually given that subject matter quite a bit of thought.

I agree with your "increasing number and strength of hurricanes" observation. I also agree about your concern about the "collapse" (and the resulting exorbitant cost) of the insurance market.

So I would be loathe to buy a 52 week condo or home in obvious hurricane alley areas.

But a timeshare, being an "interval ownership" involving 52 owners of that condo, is not quite the same extraordinary roll of the dice. At least not yet. Even my ownership of a Fort Myers Beach timeshare cost me nothing in the way of lost weeks' maintenance fees as their exchange service, Platinum Interchange (apparently directly affiliated with their management company), gave us 3 weeks for the one unusable week that we owned. Don't ask me how, don't ask me why, but I didn't mind that at all. In any case, I didn't suffer as others may have suffered so I still haven't been burned as yet.

As long as you pay minibucks via an ebay resale purchase, Florida beach timeshare ownership may mean you still get to enjoy paradise for next to nothing at a minimum of risk.

 

[Floridaman76]

For what it's worth, Wyndham has several properties, or partial ownership in several properties that have been right in the bulls eye of Hurricanes for the better part of the last 30-40 years.

The Florida panhandle is notorious for being a hurricane magnet. But there's no doubt, they have been coming in more often, and stronger in recent years. I'm a lifelong Florida resident and since the early 2000's, it does seem they are coming more often and when they do, end up being more costly.

Part of that is because the population boom over the last 30 years, and more coastal development.

Insurance costs in general is a very complicated topic which is an entire conversation in itself. The current political apparatus which has controlled Florida since the late 90's has turned a blind eye, and even actually enabled insurance companies to gouge consumers. It's really disgraceful and shameful, but that's part of the problem too.

 

[paxsarah]

As long as you pay minibucks via an ebay resale purchase, Florida beach timeshare ownership may mean you still get to enjoy paradise for next to nothing at a minimum of risk.

But if all someone wants is Club Wyndham points to use at a variety of Club Wyndham resorts, there's no compelling reason to do it via a coastal Florida resort when there are so many others with low maintenance fees in the system.

 

[dioxide45]

The Florida panhandle is notorious for being a hurricane magnet. But there's no doubt, they have been coming in more often, and stronger in recent years. I'm a lifelong Florida resident and since the early 2000's, it does seem they are coming more often and when they do, end up being more costly.

You can look at the number of hurricanes by year. While there might be an upward trend of late, that doesn't necessarily indicate a long term uptrend in hurricane activity. Hurricanes tend to run a cyclical pattern based on other climate phenomenon like El Niño. You can also look at landfalling hurricanes and the trends for strikes were much higher almost a century ago. Things may also seem worse because of how the current news cycle runs vs. when you were growing up in Florida as a lifelong resident. These storms are front and center for a week where you may have only read a news story about them back in the 80s. The last category 5 was almost a decade ago and the last one before it was Andrew nearly 35 years ago.

As you noted, coastal development is the biggest reason why hurricanes are more costly. No other reason really. The more you build the more there is to fix. The whole NFIP is a disaster as it incentivizes people to build in flood prone areas. Why not build when you can get relatively cheap flood insurance and have government subsidized insurance cover your losses. Then rebuild again only for it to be damaged and repaired several years or more down the road. NFIP isn't sustainable.

 

[DancingWaters]

Thank you. That answers my question. I thought about getting Bonnet Creek because I already own a deed there. If I did that I could give one to each of my daughters when we can’t travel anymore

 

[andre10056]

But if all someone wants is Club Wyndham points to use at a variety of Club Wyndham resorts, there's no compelling reason to do it via a coastal Florida resort when there are so many others with low maintenance fees in the system.

I, personally, believe that timeshare ownership most often makes sense if you like going to wherever it is you own.

And I can't imagine why people might want to go most inland places. Everybody has nice places they can drive to (or take public transportation to) in their hometown. Restaurants that they like. Views they enjoy. Activities that they enjoy. Why, then, would I want to go anywhere that allows me to do what I can already do at home?

So I can understand people who travel to go skiing at world class ski areas. I'm really not all that interested, but I can understand (well...maybe I don't really understand but can observe) people who have extreme interest in Disney World. And I can also understand people traveling to balmy, white sandy beaches with gorgeous palm trees, particularly if those areas also offer great restaurants and other interesting things to do. Hence, southern Florida coastal areas.

Not Williamsburgh, not Branson, not inland Texas or inland California. Indeed not even any coastal area without those palm trees and tropical ecosystem.

 

[paxsarah]

I, personally, believe that timeshare ownership most often makes sense if you like going to wherever it is you own.

You do you, and it's certainly good advice with fixed weeks or other systems with different sets of peculiarities and incentives that favor home resorts to a greater extent, but in Club Wyndham it's rarely necessary to approach it this way.

(And note that I'm not trying to change your mind, but in the Club Wyndham forum just pointing out to other less experienced owners who may happen upon this thread later on to look beyond "own where you want to go" when it comes to Club Wyndham points.)

 

[andre10056]

You do you, and it's certainly good advice with fixed weeks or other systems with different sets of peculiarities and incentives that favor home resorts to a greater extent, but in Club Wyndham it's rarely necessary to approach it this way.

(And note that I'm not trying to change your mind, but in the Club Wyndham forum just pointing out to other less experienced owners who may happen upon this thread later on to look beyond "own where you want to go" when it comes to Club Wyndham points.)

Although I don't know the Wyndham system, I believe (but, again, I don't know) that there must be SOME disadvantage to not owning at a resort to which you might like to travel. Even if there might not be exchange fees, will that Florida coastal resort be available precisely WHEN you might want to travel? As compared to having 100% certainty that you will vacation in Key West or Fort Myers Beach in late February or March.

Can you rent out a week at a Florida resort into which you exchanged (or used your points to get) if something comes up and you can't make it that week after all? Indeed, can you rent out any weeks anywhere (or any set of points) without restriction?

I ask these questions not because I'm motivated by any desire to disparage Wyndham, but only because I like to be able to identify the pros and cons of any type of timeshare ownership. Someone with whom I most recently discussed Marriott ownership on TUG (in the course of his denigrating my Hyatt Windward Pointe ownership) told me his Marriott resale purchase afforded him the opportunity to not pay any fees associated with exchanging or having a short stay or having a midweek cleaning. I told him that sounded great.

Turns out that I've since learned that his resale purchase only got those benefits because he "enrolled" his week at a cost that I believe was $1600 (or more) !!! That's three times what I paid for the most expensive timeshare that I ever purchased during my lifetime. That little kernel of information makes his Marriott ownership seem far less attractive.

 

[paxsarah]

If I wanted coastal Florida on a regular basis, honestly I’d look outside of Wyndham and buy a fixed week where I want to travel. The benefit of Wyndham mainly is a wide portfolio of locations at what I’ve found to be a reasonable cost. For me personally, I live in the southeast and there are a lot of locations within driving distance without ever needing to exchange outside of Wyndham. We’ve been out west and northeast, but with one kid still in high school our comfort zone is places in our driveable radius, and I never really have to worry about not being able to use our points.

 

[Floridaman76]

I, personally, believe that timeshare ownership most often makes sense if you like going to wherever it is you own.

I own where I own (National Harbor) strictly because of low maintenance fees. Period. I didn't buy there, and i've only been there twice, even though I go to the area on average 1.5 times per year over the live of my ownership. I own retail points there and didn't even buy from there.

When I travel to the area, I prefer to stay at Old Town Alexandria. In my opinion it's got a superior location for my needs, free parking, fewer points and slightly larger units.

The only cons OTA has in respect to NH is there is no pool or hot tubs, fewer activities. But NH doesn't have a Metro station right across the street, and a few blocks away from NH it gets pretty ghetto quick. Alexandria still has it's pockets of bad, but it's really gentrified over the last 20 years and the area immediately around the resort is completely safe.

I think there are definitely resort locations that people own there JUST because they need ARP, places like Steamboat, Park City, the New Orleans resorts, Ocean Walk (Daytona), Midtown 45, Glacier Canyon and a couple others i'm sure, but largely my ownership interest is based purely on MF cost per point. Points are points at 10 months and that's all that matters to me.

Whatever works for you, but that's a generalization you are making that not many would get behind around here.

 

[CO skier]

I think there are definitely resort locations that people own there JUST because they need ARP, places like Steamboat, Park City, the New Orleans resorts,

winky winky

 

[andre10056]

I own where I own (National Harbor) strictly because of low maintenance fees. Period. I didn't buy there, and i've only been there twice, even though I go to the area on average 1.5 times per year over the live of my ownership. I own retail points there and didn't even buy from there.

When I travel to the area, I prefer to stay at Old Town Alexandria. In my opinion it's got a superior location for my needs, free parking, fewer points and slightly larger units.

The only cons OTA has in respect to NH is there is no pool or hot tubs, fewer activities. But NH doesn't have a Metro station right across the street, and a few blocks away from NH it gets pretty ghetto quick. Alexandria still has it's pockets of bad, but it's really gentrified over the last 20 years and the area immediately around the resort is completely safe.

I think there are definitely resort locations that people own there JUST because they need ARP, places like Steamboat, Park City, the New Orleans resorts, Ocean Walk (Daytona), Midtown 45, Glacier Canyon and a couple others i'm sure, but largely my ownership interest is based purely on MF cost per point. Points are points at 10 months and that's all that matters to me.

Whatever works for you, but that's a generalization you are making that not many would get behind around here.

Unexpected things that have come up have prevented me from traveling to "my home resort" timeshares more often than not over the years. It's never been a problem because I've never had an issue with thereafter putting it up for rent. And, via airbnb, which seems to always find "guests"/renters as late as the same day as the week begins (and, indeed, I've never had a "months in advance" airbnb renter), I've always gotten my maintenance fees back (and oftentimes more).

I suspect, as I get older, that health issues will for the first time be the "thing" that may prevent me from traveling.

So my question is this: if something in your life came up, would you be able to place your Old Town Alexandria unit up for rent? Is that allowed as part of Wyndham's rules? Or at least cancel and get your points redeposited into your account?

Because I have often needed to be able to authorize a guest with sometimes little time before the week starts, and that has always meant simply letting my home resort know.

 

[Floridaman76]

So my question is this: if something in your life came up, would you be able to place your Old Town Alexandria unit up for rent? Is that allowed as part of Wyndham's rules? Or at least cancel and get your points redeposited into your account?

Because I have often needed to be able to authorize a guest with sometimes little time before the week starts, and that has always meant simply letting my home resort know.

Think you misunderstand me, I own at National Harbor. I book overwhelmingly at Old Town Alexandria. Maintenance fees are high at OTA and low at NH.

I use my points everywhere. I go to OTA often because my wife has family in the area. Her sister and parents. If they move or pass on, we would have less of a reason to go there. But regardless, we can use our points anywhere, so that's a non-issue.

My points are locked into a low MF resort, so unless Wyndham sells National Harbor or something drastically bad happens there, I should be good.

I don't have a need to ARP into either OTA or NH or anywhere else really and points are points at 10 months

 

[andre10056]

Think you misunderstand me, I own at National Harbor. I book overwhelmingly at Old Town Alexandria. Maintenance fees are high at OTA and low at NH.

I use my points everywhere. I go to OTA often because my wife has family in the area. Her sister and parents. If they move or pass on, we would have less of a reason to go there. But regardless, we can use our points anywhere, so that's a non-issue.

My points are locked into a low MF resort, so unless Wyndham sells National Harbor or something drastically bad happens there, I should be good.

I don't have a need to ARP into either OTA or NH or anywhere else really and points are points at 10 months

I understood precisely that you own at NH and book at OTA. So, upon booking OTA, and thereafter something comes up, can you then rent out (as a landlord or "host") OTA? Or can you, upon cancellation, get your points back?

Because I've never had a problem when something unforeseen arises because I invariably go to my home resort. So I can always rent out what I own without problems.

Here on TUG, for example, Panina informed us that she had a reservation at a resort in Marco Island to which she looked forward to going. But then her dogsitter canceled on her. So now she can't go and RCI insurance was apparently not as protective as she had thought it would be. Had I been in that situation and assuming Marco Island was my home resort, I'd have that rented in no time.

But maybe within Wyndham, your locking in whatever resort is like locking in a floating week at a home resort. And "home resort" means unlimited right to rent via your own resort staff/Owner Services. Just wondering if I'm right about that speculation and you CAN rent out your OTA if the need arises. Because I have over the years had things come up so often (more often than not) that I'd hate to not be able to rent a timeshare week to which I had planned to go but then found out I couldn't go.

If that can't be done via Wyndham, then I think buying where you'd like to go is indeed a good strategy (within Wyndham as well as everywhere else).

 

[Floridaman76]

I don't rent out my points, so you are asking the wrong person.

Wyndham doesn't allow people to rent their bookings except through their internally sanctioned "Extra Vacations" program. They actively monitor and punish people who do apparently, it's against their terms of service.

You can cancel any booking prior to 15 days before the start of the booking and get full points back. This has never been an issue for me.

Don't go into Wyndham ownership expecting to be able to rent your stays, that's a fools errand... do a search there are plenty of posts on the topic.

What most of us try to do is get the ownership that costs us the least per 1000 points, which means finding a resort with low maintenance fees. Those points can be used anywhere at the 10 month mark. Unless you NEED to be able to book somewhere at 13 months, you can own anywhere. There are several definite use cases or reasons to own at a specific location to be able to book at 13 months, but I think the majority of owners here, that's really not the case.

You pay for that luxury, either through owning CWA or owning at a specific resort which may have higher MF

 

[chapjim]

<snip>

But maybe within Wyndham, your locking in whatever resort is like locking in a floating week at a home resort. And "home resort" means unlimited right to rent via your own resort staff/Owner Services. Just wondering if I'm right about that speculation and you CAN rent out your OTA if the need arises. Because I have over the years had things come up so often (more often than not) that I'd hate to not be able to rent a timeshare week to which I had planned to go but then found out I couldn't go.

If that can't be done via Wyndham, then I think buying where you'd like to go is indeed a good strategy (within Wyndham as well as everywhere else).

Absolutely not true for Wyndham resorts.

 

[Roger830]

I don't rent out my points, so you are asking the wrong person.

Wyndham doesn't allow people to rent their bookings except through their internally sanctioned "Extra Vacations" program. They actively monitor and punish people who do apparently, it's against their terms of service.

You can cancel any booking prior to 15 days before the start of the booking and get full points back. This has never been an issue for me.

Don't go into Wyndham ownership expecting to be able to rent your stays, that's a fools errand... do a search there are plenty of posts on the topic.

What most of us try to do is get the ownership that costs us the least per 1000 points, which means finding a resort with low maintenance fees. Those points can be used anywhere at the 10 month mark. Unless you NEED to be able to book somewhere at 13 months, you can own anywhere. There are several definite use cases or reasons to own at a specific location to be able to book at 13 months, but I think the majority of owners here, that's really not the case.

You pay for that luxury, either through owning CWA or owning at a specific resort which may have higher MF

If you want a week in Florida late February early March it would be best to own the fixed weeks, but they can be expensive.

We own weeks 4,5,6 at Hollywood Sands Resort in Florida and units in that timeframe are now selling for $8000-12,000 per week.

We also have a week 7 fixed week converted to points with Windham which I can book anytime from 13-10 months before check-in.
If Wyndham were to take that back if would be put in WCA, Wyndham Club Access, where any member with those fairly high cost points could book it at 13-10 months. So for that time period, usually president's week, it would would require a bit of luck to book it at 12 AM.

We do have other Wyn low mf points but it's getting tough to book in early January in Florida at 10 months.

 

[andre10056]

OK. I hoped Wyndham might be an exception that would allow one to rent out an "exchanged into" week (however that's defined, such as using your points to book) but that's apparently not the case.

Indeed, if I'm not misinterpreting what was written above, even renting out your home resort week, the resort you may have chosen as your home resort due to low maintenance fees, might be significantly restricted via Wyndham's "internally sanctioned "Extra Vacations" program". THAT I didn't expect.

So different strokes for different folks. How wonderful for those who have had nothing arise that caused them to have to miss traveling when they wanted to.

But I need, based upon my and apparently other people's actual historical experience, to have the option to immediately shift gears and seek to rent out any timeshare week to which it turned out I couldn't go. I've had unexpected, unplanned military deployments arise, new work projects that necessitated all hands on deck, my father falling and hitting his head on a concrete sidewalk necessitating brain surgery for a subdural hematoma, a neighbor's 16 year old kid dying in a motorcycle crash such that it would have been unseemly to immediately thereafter go on vacation, etc., etc., etc. Panina with her dogsitter canceling. Life happens.

And then, of course, as I mentioned above, I'm concerned about my own health as I get older. Might I be unable to travel during a week I had planned to travel due to medical necessity?

So I'll stick with buying and therefore owning where I might like to travel so that I can be sure that I can rent out the week no problem. Of course, you need a cooperative resort staff and Owner Services. In my case, the latter (at all four resorts that I own) actually go out of their way to help me with renting the unit out and/or doing all the administrative things to allow the guest to fully step into my shoes.

Case in point: at one Key West resort that I own, I had managed to rent out the first three nights and the last three nights to different "tenants". Leaving the "middle" night unoccupied. But then I got a call from the manager of the resort that a woman had appeared in the lobby, distraught that she couldn't find a place to stay during Christmas week. Her son had just been admitted into the Key West hospital, and she needed a room somewhere. The manager asked me if I would accept $500 for the night, telling me I wouldn't have to pay for the midweek cleaning. I said yes, and she "Zelled" me the money the very next day.

 

[Floridaman76]

To be clear the ONLY way you can legally rent out anything in Wyndham is:
1. If you own Wyndham points, does matter if it's deeded or not, you can rent using Wyndham's "Extra Vacations" program, or whatever it is called now. Wyndham takes 40% of the cut
2. If you own a fixed or floating week at a specific resort, you can rent it as you see fit

Not very many resorts were sold as fixed weeks, and those which were, Wyndham tends to buy back when possible and transfer them to points inventory. Pretty much anything built and sold since the very early 2000's was never sold as weeks, so option 2 is a non-issue for most resorts.

For Florida, to my knowledge the only resorts which were sold as weeks were Sea Gardens, Santa Barbara and maybe Orlando International, possibly some Palm Aire too.

In the Club Wyndham points system there is the concept of "home resort", but that does not give you rights to rent bookings there.

The system is designed for flexibility for the owner, not to make money running a virtual AIRBnB with your points

 

[paxsarah]

I think the direction this thread has taken is a good example of the reason we have different forums dedicated to different timeshare systems. I’m not quite sure what we’ve accomplished by having a non-Wyndham owner with no apparent intention of purchasing Wyndham interrogate the peculiarities of the Wyndham system in a community of Wyndham owners. Did we all learn something or did we all simply confirm our priors?

 

[andre10056]

I think the direction this thread has taken is a good example of the reason we have different forums dedicated to different timeshare systems. I’m not quite sure what we’ve accomplished by having a non-Wyndham owner with no apparent intention of purchasing Wyndham interrogate the peculiarities of the Wyndham system in a community of Wyndham owners. Did we all learn something or did we all simply confirm our priors?

So you think that a newbie evaluating Wyndham ownership learned absolutely nothing of interest in this thread? On the contrary, I think he/she would have learned an ENORMOUS amount of information about the pros and cons of Wyndham ownership, perhaps about many things that they had never even thought of, and is now light years better off in determining if this system might work for him/her.

Isn't that the objective of all forums?

If you're an expert in all things Wyndham, in even the tiniest, most obscure detail, good for you. I think that it goes without saying that others may not be.

Also, why would you say this:

"I’m not quite sure what we’ve accomplished by having a non-Wyndham owner with no apparent intention of purchasing Wyndham interrogate the peculiarities of the Wyndham system in a community of Wyndham owners"

Had my inquiries led to answers that would have been enormously attractive to me, I might very well have looked to purchase Wyndham via ebay. Instead, I learned that Wyndham would likely be a disaster for me. Good to know for me. And perhaps good to know for some others.

And perhaps for some they learned that Wyndham may be the perfect system for them. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[paxsarah]

Is that why you joined in this conversation, as a newbie evaluating Wyndham ownership? Certainly not a newbie to TUG or to timeshare ownership. So you sincerely developed an interest in Wyndham ownership out of the blue and instead of starting a new thread with your questions that you couldn’t answer with a quick search you jumped into an existing Wyndham thread with perspectives on non-Wyndham timeshares. Cool, cool. I hope you learned what you were looking for.