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Flamingo Owners - How are you voting on the Linq project

kool_kat

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Hi all,

I got a package in the mail today from the Flamingo BOD requesting me to vote for/against allowing an amendment to the access road.

Here's some of the letter in pertinent part:

As we mentiontioned in our annual maintenance fee mailing last month, Caesars Entertainment is developing the lannd between the Flamingo Las Vegas hotel and casino and hte Imperial Palace. Name the Linq, the project will bring 200,000 square fee of new dining, retail and enterentaiment venues to our immediate area. In order to proceed with its plan, CE has met with your BOD and we are seeking your approval of the attached access easement amenment. The amendment primarily
(a) redefines the existing road access and
(b) ensures continued vehicular access for the Association members to LV Blvd. to the west, Audrie St. to the east and Flamingo Rd. to the South via Audrie St.

CE will offer the following benefits
1) Relocated & more convenient parking (3rd, 4th, 5th, & 6th floors of Flamingo parking garage with improved pedestrian access from garage to resort including a new crosswalk, directional signage, & new landscaping)
2) Free access to Flamingo pool from your resort during pool operating hours
3) 10% discount at all Caesars' owned and operated restaurants & reatail outlets within the Flamingo or Linq (excluding observtion wheel)
4) Reduced music volume from Flamingo pool & elimination of music at pool when pool is closed.

So what does everyone (especially Flamingo owners) think? While I go to Vegas several times a year, i have never actually stayed a the Flamingo, so I am not sure of the current layout & if they change would be good or bad. Personally, I think the Linq will help Flamingo values, but am interested to hear how others are going to vote.

There's a picture of the new access, but since i don't know the layout of the current one, I'm not really sure what is changing.
 

fillde

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Yes. Nice freebies.
To encourage your timely response Caesars will provide 2 free buffet passes to eat at buffetts during a 24 hour period. The passes do not expire until Jan 1 2014.
 
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kayaker

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Hi all,
I got a package in the mail today from the Flamingo BOD requesting me to vote for/against allowing an amendment to the access road.

Overall I see it as a gain. The only question I have is where are the parking deck elevators in relationship to our timeshare? But even with that it is no big deal for me. I always use Flamingo's valet parking instead of the dirty dingy parking deck provided for us.

The letter also states we can use the Flamingo's big pool. I was under the assumption we could have always used the pool. Was I mistaken?

Will wait a week or so before voting to see what others have to say, maybe something I am overlooking.

Paul
 

Terry D

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Maybe I missed it, but briefly looking at all the documentation where do we have it in writing that the pool can be used, the 10% discount, etc?. I see us giving up things in the documents, but nothing to show what we gain. Did I miss it? Also I do think we had access to the pool already. What happens if the owner sells to someone else in a few years? Do the promises hold? Count me as confused.
 

kayaker

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Maybe I missed it, but briefly looking at all the documentation where do we have it in writing that the pool can be used, the 10% discount, etc?. I see us giving up things in the documents, but nothing to show what we gain. Did I miss it? Also I do think we had access to the pool already. What happens if the owner sells to someone else in a few years? Do the promises hold? Count me as confused.

Terry, read the cover letter.
Paul
 

semicycler

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Trying to vote online but the link is bad? Can someone post a working link here?

Thanks!

UPDATE: it was my work internet connection, not the link. Apparently my work's IT dept is blocking that site.
 
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Blues

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Maybe I missed it, but briefly looking at all the documentation where do we have it in writing that the pool can be used, the 10% discount, etc?. I see us giving up things in the documents, but nothing to show what we gain. Did I miss it? Also I do think we had access to the pool already. What happens if the owner sells to someone else in a few years? Do the promises hold? Count me as confused.

Terry, read the cover letter.
Paul

But the cover letter is not legally binding. I agree with Terry - where's the legal wording that guarantees us the nice stuff that the cover letter promises? I've read (OK, skimmed) the legal document, and I don't see it.

kool_kat, you beat me to it! I was going to come here to ask the same set of questions. In the last 24 hours, I've gotten the information packet in the mail, a telephone call, and an email. It appears our homeowner management really wants this passed. I also am wondering why.

In the phone call, I asked the nice lady if "pool access" means that we'd have access from the rear door of our building directly to the pool, as we used to. She assured me that the answer was "yes". But my reading of the documents doesn't indicate that at all. Indeed, in the legalese, it merely gives us an easement "between the existing fence and the west boundary" of HGVC Flamingo. My reading of the document is that it makes permanent the pathway that we've been using since the fence went up, but we'd still have to use the hotel entrance to the pool. If you look carefully at the property boundaries, that path is actually hotel property, not timeshare property.

IOW, it makes official what we've already had access to -- that path to the pool, and parking in the hotel parking structure (I don't know about you, but I've always parked there). The free buffet and 10% discount are nice, but transitory.

In answer to the question about the elevators for the parking structure, take a look at this wikimapia map --
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=36.115701&lon=-115.1694471&z=20&l=0&m=b

The elevators are off to the far left of the structure, near the white covered walkway to the hotel. There's a set of stairs underneath the cars that are parked more towards the middle-top of the structure. Those stairs are a lot closer to HGVC, but there's no elevator there. I use those stairs when I'm able to get a parking spot on level 3 or 4 or lower, but not any higher than that - then it's too much trouble.

I'm not at all sure how I'm voting. In a way, I feel it's probably futile to fight it, with all the muscle of our HGVC management behind it. But I also feel that all we're getting is a legal easement to what we've already been using. Perhaps that's enough; I don't know.

I'm also curious about how all the rest of you are voting.

-Bob
 
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Blues

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Trying to vote online but the link is bad? Can someone post a working link here?

Thanks!

The link in the email works for me -- http://bit.ly/hgvc_fhrc_ballot_email

You'll need the access code from the email.


BTW, the fence between the Flamingo pool and HGVC was built in 2010. I believe I was the first one to report it on TUG, as I was there when it was built. Here's the link to my post - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116086 Note that, at the time, the fence wasn't completed, and I assumed they'd build an entrance gate just for us. How wrong I was!

-Bob
 

derb

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I also checked to see if we would regain direct access to the pool.

The lady was very knowledgeable and said she toured the property to get ready for the questions and when you exit the rear door, walk around the few chairs there you will see a gate that hgvc members can access.
 

Blues

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I also checked to see if we would regain direct access to the pool.

The lady was very knowledgeable and said she toured the property to get ready for the questions and when you exit the rear door, walk around the few chairs there you will see a gate that hgvc members can access.

Thanks Derb! It's good to know that's their intent. Given that, I'm sure that's the way it will be, at least at first, when the agreement is signed. But without it being spelled out in the legal document, future Caesars management could decide to close that access again.

Hmmm, still not sure how to vote...

-Bob
 

UWSurfer

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A few things about Caesars (was Harrah's) & timeshares using (Summer Bay) Desert Club as an example.

Summer Bay was the rag tag collection of former apartment buildings across the access road that served as a timeshare property. Harrah's acquired this some years ago when the previous owners of the TS went bankrupt & a series of negotiations went on with the timeshare owners board. In the process Harrah's provided the current home, a much newer apartment complex across the street on Koval & close to $50 million to pay for improvements to the property to facilitate the timeshare. They provided more money as an incentive to get the timeshare off the old property a bit early and operating from the new facility. This took the timeshare to a Gold Crown rating with the new digs. I'll acknowledge this all took place before the big economic crash that hit Las Vegas and the country.

I've not received the Flamingo Board's packet yet but if the promises in the cover letter are in the legal doc's it should be a good move. My only wish would have been adding a members access to the monorail walkway from the HGVC timeshare instead of having walk to the hotel and back again. There is already a service stairway near HGVC which could be slightly re-engineered with the costs paid for as a sweetener by the Linq project.

It will be interesting what the doc's say. This project has lots & lots of money and time already invested in it. I don't see the Flamingo timeshare stopping it, but we can certainly get improvements out of it.
 
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Blues

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I've not received the Flamingo Board's packet yet but if the promises in the cover letter are in the legal doc's it should be a good move.

Ah, and there's the rub. By my reading, those promises are definitely not in the legal docs. I believe that we're only guaranteed an easement to the walkway that we're currently using to get to the hotel pool entrance. Anything else, such as direct access from the rear entrance of HGVC, is merely a verbal promise.

Oh, and I almost forgot the vehicle easement that they're promising us. Basically, it's the auto access to our port-cochere. If you look at this Google map of the area, the north-south section of Winnick Ave is declared an "alleyway", which Ceasars plans to abandon. But they'll give us an easement to part of that abandoned segment, as far as the east-west alleyway that comprises the Linq project.

Right now, you can go north on Winnick to the Harrah's monorail stop, and turn right onto Winnick again to link up with Koval. That access will go away. So they're granting us access into our property from the southern end, but the northern end access will go away anyway.

It sounds to me like we're being granted a part of what we already have. And that anything more, such as direct pool access, is being offered verbally, but not in legal documents.

I would think that HGVC would currently have the leverage to at least get these things in writing. Once the ink is dry, we'll have no leverage whatsoever.

JMHO,
Bob

ETA - Please don't get me wrong. In the long run, I believe that the Linq project will be good for the area and good for HGVC Flamingo. I just believe that we should use our leverage while we have it, to get these promises into the legal documents.
 
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kayaker

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As I stated in my earlier post, I think this is a plus, but will wait a week or so before voting to see if I overlooked anything.

Well, I did overlook something. As Bob and others pointed out none of the promises are in the documents, only on the cover letter. When I looked over the maps that came with the documents, I then thought they could have done a better job by labelling things. It is very hard to read the maps. I now think that was deliberate.

Am now leaning toward voting it down. Will keep monitoring this site before making a final decision.

Paul
 

Terry D

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This whole thing just seems to be odd. I am not sure how I will vote. The benefits listed are not much of a benefit...the neighbor next door promises to turn down their loud music (you know, the same one that built the high fence around the pool), provide access to the pool that we already have, a 10% discount anyone should be able to get by joining their free gaming club, and all on a cover letter that is not legally binding. Oh yes, almost forgot, a verbal promise (not even on the cover letter) from 1-800 that a hole will be cut in the fence for easy access. Hmmm! Sorry for being cynical, but my antenna goes up when I get offered two free buffets for a quick vote
Still remain confused with a lot of unanswered questions! Terry
 
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UWSurfer

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There is a large easement for drainage (exhibit F3) which appears to effectively wrap around the front entrance to our resort along with ingress & egress easement (B3) for access of the resort. I wonder if they are saying they are planning to put in storm drain there, or planning to channel water down our easement or what? I'm getting confused trying to make sense of what that is saying.
 

Remy

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Voting early to get the buffet passes doesn't require voting yes.

I learned early in life that those who won't put their signature on a set of promises has every intention of breaking those promises.

But I also think this is a solid project that will improve my ownership, so I voted yes regardless the list of incentives.
 

OldFatBaldGuy

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If it's not in writing, it doesn't exist!

I've owned at this location since 1994. We had access, 10% discount and no loud music being blasted into our pool area before. We've not had these benefits since Hilton sold the Flamingo property. The Linq area and benefits sound nice but the only thing legally binding is that we give up property rights for nothing! I talked with someone by phone and e-mailed VBS and no-one had a coherent answer about the proposed benefits and/or their duration. The Linq project may be cancelled and replaced by something else but our rights will still be gone for good. Long term, we may all benefit but they should make the benefits legally binding. Until then, my vote is no.
 

kayaker

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Fence

Have not been to the HGVC Flamingo since the fence went up. Furthermore, I did not know about the fence until reading it on this thread. Probably been discussed in the past on this site, but I do not monitor very often. I am curious:

How does the fence look when exiting the TS from the back? Does the vegetation hide it?
Seems to me there was a gate to enter the big pool area near the back of the Flamingo Hotel near the valet service. Is this an extension of that fence?
Has anyone been turned away from using the pool when entering the pool area near the valet service?
Has Caesar’s stated why they built the fence?

Paul
 

DG001

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What happens if the Flamingo owners vote no on this issue? Flamingo is sold out so Hilton should not be able to strong arm the response. Do they need enough owner votes to have a quorum, or can the board/management decide "for owners" if not enough people vote?

I am also concerned about how construction might affect our timeshare stay - presumably there will be some construction involved in this easement?

Has anyone called the customer service line to ask questions? I am wondering if it is worth it to call? The "please vote" email says:

A help center has been set up with Vacation Business Services ("VBS"), who has been retained by Caesars to manage the voting process, to answer any questions you may have. Please call VBS at 1-800-560-7127 or email FHRCSuites@vacationbizservices.com for assistance.
 

UWSurfer

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Upon several discussions with my wife on this, we believe the promised benefits noted in the letter don't appear in the documents because they wouldn't belong in easement documentation.

As separate agreement memo of understanding would be in order and it would have been helpful to us if that was drafted and included, but what we got were doc's expressly dealing with easement language.

It would be helpful if the owners board indicated if such an agreement exists, but the letter would seem to indicate that it does with these promises:

CE will offer the following benefits
1) Relocated & more convenient parking (3rd, 4th, 5th, & 6th floors of Flamingo parking garage with improved pedestrian access from garage to resort including a new crosswalk, directional signage, & new landscaping)
2) Free access to Flamingo pool from your resort during pool operating hours
3) 10% discount at all Caesars' owned and operated restaurants & reatail outlets within the Flamingo or Linq (excluding observtion wheel)
4) Reduced music volume from Flamingo pool & elimination of music at pool when pool is closed.

For what it's worth.
 

Blues

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Good point, UWSurfer. Why don't you call their help line and ask whether such a document exists? If I knew for sure that it existed and included the promised benefits, I'd vote yes. As it stands, I'm inclined to vote no, though I haven't voted yet because I haven't fully made up my mind.

-Bob
 

namuh

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I was looking at the map of the future vehicle access and one thing that puzzles me is how the trucks are going to get into the Linq loading dock, which from other drawings I have seen will be on the north side of HGVC.

Since it looks like they will be building on the east side of Winnick Ave and actually doing away with that street to the north of the HGVC( they call it the "Alley Road" in the docs they sent out, and are trying to vacate the road and reclaim all the land. Will all the delivery trucks for everything in the Linq project will loop around the condos? When do they make the deliveries? Goodbye Winnick Ave hello privately owned "alley". The map is exhibit E-2.

I also see that once this thing passes, any further changes will no longer require a vote of the owners, just the board's approval. If they don't approve or decline in 15 business days then they approve by default. If the board declines a change request then the process of request, 15 day period, decline or agree, repeats ad infinitem until either the board or the developer gives up. They want to eliminate an owner's vote because it is easier to deal with the board only.

There is under paragraph 9 of the agreement a perpetual pedestrian access easment over all public paths, sidewalks, etc that will let us go from the parking garage to the vacation property. Well, it isn't too perpetual and automatically ends if the parking right is no longer located in the Flamingo Parking garage. I don't know what the earlier agreements say about the parking rights, but they are in the public records of Clark County.

The access road can be reduced to a one way 12 ft lane if the developer chooses to at a future date. I don't know if this is a concern or not.

Overall, I think the linq project will be a big plus for this part of the strip and increase the desirability of the Flamingo HGVC, but I still don't know how I will vote.

scott
 

TucsonTom

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I've been around long enough to know that if it isn't in writing, it doesn't exist. I think the BOD can get the promises and assurances into the legal documentation easily, if not the easement paperwork then in a separate binding document. However, I don't think this will happen if we don't force the issue. Until I see the promises in a binding legal document, I'm voting NO.
 

UWSurfer

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We voted yes via the on-line link.

The one thing we do have is the letter from the board and documentation showing the parking and routes to the parking from the resort...in writing. I am going to rely that the board has this in communications from Caesars.
 

Blues

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Funny, I was just about to post again to this thread to specifically ask if you've received documentation that the other benefits are in writing. I'm particularly interested in the pool access, but also the music volume. It sounds like you only have doc on the parking access; but this is a minor point to me, as basically anyone can drive in off the street and park in their garage.

I'm about to cast my "no" vote unless I hear that the pool access is in a legal document. Anyone?

-Bob
 
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