Fixed Weeks vs. Points.. [Starwood]

[ChrisinCT]

We've owned at Sheraton Vistana for 14 years now (bought through resale thanks to TUG!!).

While we spent a lot of time going to our resort annually while the kids were young, they are now both in college so the wife and I have a lot more flexibility to travel when and where we want to.

When I look at what we have versus points and it seems the points systems (Marriott for example) give a lot more flexability as to where we can stay since we can (correct) use the same points for hotels instead of just resorts..

I called Sheraton and asked about converting - typical answer - no. You must buy new.. AND you can NOT buy into the points system through resale (is that true??)

TIA..

 

[DeniseM]

Starwood is selling a new points program that includes your resort, but it requires a full-priced developer purchase. Personally, I would not do it.

If you can no longer use your SVR week, you may want to consider unloading it, and buying exactly what you want on the resale market for a fraction of the cost of buying from the developer.

There are many different points programs, so what you buy depends on where you want to go, but there are no points programs that are a good value when you convert to hotel points.

The conversion rate from your timeshare to hotel points always benefits the management company, so it's not a good reason to buy a timeshare.

If you want to stay in hotels, you are better off just booking hotels.

 

[tschwa2]

You can't buy into points resale that you could then convert into hotel reward points. The conversion is usually not very good anyway for almost all systems. Think paying $1200 in MF;s for $600-$1000 in hotel stays depending on how you use them.

Generally look to spend close to $20,000 in a retail purchase to re qualify a resale.

If you are looking for the flexibility to stay in hotels. Just give away (may take some work) what you have and pay for hotels and resort stays when you need them.

The other option is since you are flexible look to use II to vacation during non peak times.

 

[dsmrp]

You'd also spend at least $20K to trade in your Vistana unit towards a developer purchase at a mandatory resort such as Kierland. They'll only give you what you paid resale for trade in value....Starwood does keep track of those things!

If you have a good winter (platinum) week or spring break week, then I would exchange in II, as tschaw2 suggests and see what kind of trades you could get on an ongoing search (OGS).

 

[SmithOp]

I agree with using Interval, I've only owned SVR for a few years but been very successful trading out, using cash getaways, and accomodation certificates. I've never stayed in the unit I own.


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[okwiater]

You'd also spend at least $20K to trade in your Vistana unit towards a developer purchase at a mandatory resort such as Kierland. They'll only give you what you paid resale for trade in value....Starwood does keep track of those things!

Just correcting this: Starwood gives you 80% of the retail purchase price paid the last time they sold it. It's a good deal for them because they get to reclaim 20% of the equity and sell it again, BUT it's a good deal for the purchaser too because it can turn a $1 resale purchase into tens of thousands of dollars off a developer purchase.

 

[Helios]

Just correcting this: Starwood gives you 80% of the retail purchase price paid the last time they sold it. It's a good deal for them because they get to reclaim 20% of the equity and sell it again, BUT it's a good deal for the purchaser too because it can turn a $1 resale purchase into tens of thousands of dollars off a developer purchase.

As a follow up to this comment, Starwood gives 80% for resale purchases. However, they give 100% if you bought directly from them. At least, that is what has been offered to me... I know the OP bought resale, just wanted to clarify for everybody's benefit.

 

[dsmrp]

Just correcting this: Starwood gives you 80% of the retail purchase price paid the last time they sold it. It's a good deal for them because they get to reclaim 20% of the equity and sell it again, BUT it's a good deal for the purchaser too because it can turn a $1 resale purchase into tens of thousands of dollars off a developer purchase.

I think the 80% applies if unit was bought from STARWOOD. But Starwood applies different valuations if unit was bought resale during time the original developer of a resort owned resort, and then Starwood later acquired.

Look, my FIL bought his Vistana unit resale around 1995 for a little less than $6K (we have all his paperwork). Later DH & I took it over from him.
When we went to owner's update a few years ago, Starwood only offered us what my FIL paid + a little extra, as trade in value towards getting unit into SVN; said we'd have to pay difference of approx $14K. (I think FIL missed the boat on getting the unit grandfathered into SVN, but that's another story...)
We turned them down, and the next year they still offered about same amount.

My FIL was well known in his family for over-spending, usually buying high, selling low
I remember him saying he bought resale because the retail Vistana units at the time were really high priced, in the range of about $10-15K. Even at $10K retail, Starwood didn't offer us $8K as trade in value.

 

[Helios]

I think the 80% applies if unit was bought from STARWOOD. But Starwood applies different valuations if unit was bought from original developer of a resort Starwood has acquired.

Look, my FIL bought his Vistana unit resale around 1995 for a little less than $6K (we have all his paperwork). Later DH & I took it over from him.
When we went to owner's update a few years ago, Starwood only offered us what my FIL paid + a little extra, as trade in value towards getting unit into SVN; said we'd have to pay difference of approx $14K. (I think FIL missed the boat on getting the unit grandfathered into SVN, but that's another story...)
We turned them down, and the next year they still offered about same amount.

My FIL was well known in his family for over-spending, usually buying high, selling low
I remember him saying he bought resale because the retail Vistana units at the time were really high priced, in the range of about $10-15K. Even at $10K retail, Starwood didn't offer us $8K as trade in value.

Interesting. The week your FIL purchased was a resale that predated Starwood. Perhaps that makes a difference in your situation.

 

[dsmrp]

When did Starwood buy the original Vistana?

 

[ChrisinCT]

Starwood is selling a new points program that includes your resort, but it requires a full-priced developer purchase. Personally, I would not do it.

If you can no longer use your SVR week, you may want to consider unloading it, and buying exactly what you want on the resale market for a fraction of the cost of buying from the developer.

There are many different points programs, so what you buy depends on where you want to go, but there are no points programs that are a good value when you convert to hotel points.

The conversion rate from your timeshare to hotel points always benefits the management company, so it's not a good reason to buy a timeshare.

If you want to stay in hotels, you are better off just booking hotels.

Let me clarify a bit. I don't want to get rid of what I have. In reality we love the resort we own at but it seems that if we were going to start exchanging more often that the points system was the way to go.

Agree? Disagree?

 

[DeniseM]

First of all, there are many different points systems and they are not interchangeable between resort systems.

If you are asking about the new Starwood Flexoptions, then my answer is no. You have to buy from the developer, it's more expensive than buying a Starwood timeshare with regular Staroptions, and the value is dubious.

*You can buy a Starwood timeshare WITH STAROPTIONS on the resale market for a fraction of the cost of buying from the developer:

* Harborside at Atlantis
* Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases only)
* Westin St. John (Virgin Grand - Hillside only)
* Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North
* Westin Kierland Villas

There are no points systems that are good values for hotel stays.

There are other ways to trade besides owning points.

To refine your goals, I suggest you answer these questions:

What to buy questions: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208742

 

[dsmrp]

Let me clarify a bit. I don't want to get rid of what I have. In reality we love the resort we own at but it seems that if we were going to start exchanging more often that the points system was the way to go.

Agree? Disagree?

Just so we're on the same page, the Starwood internal trading system is based on star options (points by any other name...) and you can use those to internally "trade" for stays only at the other Starwood timeshare vacation resorts. But there's a high buy-in cost as Denise and others have said. And, the internal trading doesn't always get you the location you want at the time you might want it.

Starwood has a pending sale of their timeshare business to Interval Leisure group ILG (who owns Internal Int'l II exchange system) expected to close 2nd quarter next year. Short-term it's expected to be business as usual.
But longer-term they could create another points system and change things up; no one knows

I was in a similar position as you a few years ago. We chose to buy into the network, so we have 2 weeks and 2 MFs now. If I were you now, I'd
1. sit tight and exchange in II, until things shake out with the ILG transition
or
2. buy a small resale mandatory unit at say Kierland or Vistana Villages, if you wanted a 2nd week and MF.

 

[ValleyGirl]

You'd also spend at least $20K to trade in your Vistana unit towards a developer purchase at a mandatory resort such as Kierland. They'll only give you what you paid resale for trade in value....Starwood does keep track of those things!

I'm not so sure about Starwood keeping track of resale purchase prices or not unless property is a ROFR.
When we requaled a VV we purchased for 900, we received 18,000 (I believe was about 80% of the original sales price) against new purchase (we still had to come up with 20,000 new money)
They either do not track or clearly will give you more credit than you paid.

 

[cubigbird]

I'm not so sure about Starwood keeping track of resale purchase prices or not unless property is a ROFR.
When we requaled a VV we purchased for 900, we received 18,000 (I believe was about 80% of the original sales price) against new purchase (we still had to come up with 20,000 new money)
They either do not track or clearly will give you more credit than you paid.

To my knowledge, SVO does not keep track of resale purchase prices, only the original developer price in the beginning. I don't even think they can keep track of resale sale prices since the title department is only involved in the ownership change?? At my last owners update they had the original owner's purchase price of one of my weeks but really wanted to know what I bought it for on the secondary market :hysterical: Wouldn't they like to know!

I think the original price means something to them for a sales opportunity to offer equity in a sale.

FWIW going back to the OP original thread title. I'll never give up my fixed weeks at WLR and SVR for a points system. At the end of the day I like to own WHERE and WHEN I like to go. Unfortunately my WKV week is float but I don't think WKV Fixed weeks exist.

 

[ChrisinCT]

I'm not so sure about Starwood keeping track of resale purchase prices or not unless property is a ROFR.
When we requaled a VV we purchased for 900, we received 18,000 (I believe was about 80% of the original sales price) against new purchase (we still had to come up with 20,000 new money)
They either do not track or clearly will give you more credit than you paid.

There's no way they can track (at least I don't think) when a unit is purchased via the resale market (as mine was). I paid $4500 14 years ago for my fixed week and they've offered me $7,220 toward a new unit.

My guess is the $7,220 is 80% of the purchase price of the person that I bought it from because that's MORE than I paid for it.

 

[dsmrp]

I think the original price means something to them for a sales opportunity to offer equity in a sale.
FWIW going back to the OP original thread title. I'll never give up my fixed weeks at WLR and SVR for a points system. At the end of the day I like to own WHERE and WHEN I like to go. Unfortunately my WKV week is float but I don't think WKV Fixed weeks exist.

There's no way they can track (at least I don't think) when a unit is purchased via the resale market (as mine was). I paid $4500 14 years ago for my fixed week and they've offered me $7,220 toward a new unit.

My guess is the $7,220 is 80% of the purchase price of the person that I bought it from because that's MORE than I paid for it.

Yes I agree about sales wanting to offer equity in a sale.
Unfortunately for me, they did look up or estimate right on what my FIL paid on his resale. Maybe they looked at county records ??
Chris, I'm guessing your unit was bought originally when Vistana was the developer/owner ???

Also do both of you have a fixed unit as well as a fixed week?
and it's deeded that way?

I haven't given up my fixed week & unit, I still can use it if I want. But if not, I have to release it in mystarcentral in order to get the star options associated with it. I think others have said they have the same process.
Correction: I can release earlier than 8 months to get options; but I think it will release automatically at 8 months.

 

[alexadeparis]

When I had an offer to buy I was given around $12k in equity on a unit I got free off Tug (third or fourth hand). So, I think they must go off the original purchase price perhaps?

 

[Helios]

When I had an offer to buy I was given around $12k in equity on a unit I got free off Tug (third or fourth hand). So, I think they must go off the original purchase price perhaps?

I am certain they go by the price they charged the last person who purchased that unit.

 

[Markus]

Trade in value

I am certain they go by the price they charged the last person who purchased that unit.

From my experience this is what is done. If you purchased directly from Starwood, the credit towards a new purchase is the amount that you paid to the developer. If you purchased resale, the credit is 80% of the price the week was initially sold for by the developer to the first purchaser. Starwood does not track resale prices, only the initial price and the Starpoint first day incentives and StarOption first day incentives if any.

 

[Helios]

From my experience this is what is done. If you purchased directly from Starwood, the credit towards a new purchase is the amount that you paid to the developer. If you purchased resale, the credit is 80% of the price the week was initially sold for by the developer to the first purchaser. Starwood does not track resale prices, only the initial price and the Starpoint first day incentives and StarOption first day incentives if any.

You mentioned the credit is 80% of the price the week was initially sold for by the developer to the first purchaser. In some cases, SVN churn the weeks and the new/last sale price (or churned price) is used to determine the 80% credit. This is a rare occurrence, but it happens.

 

[dsmrp]

From my experience this is what is done. If you purchased directly from Starwood, the credit towards a new purchase is the amount that you paid to the developer. If you purchased resale, the credit is 80% of the price the week was initially sold for by the developer to the first purchaser. Starwood does not track resale prices, only the initial price and the Starpoint first day incentives and StarOption first day incentives if any.

It's good that Starwood generally gives 80% of original developer sales price on resales used as trade-ins. But I also recall another thread last year, in which some had said that Starwood wouldn't take Florida weeks as trade in on Phoenix weeks. I've the impression Starwood is fairly selective on the weeks they'll take back. Am I wrong? Has anyone used a resale or SVN florida week to trade up on say a Hawaii, Kierland or St John unit?
I can see Starwood taking back a Florida week to sell another Florida week.

 

[ValleyGirl]

It's good that Starwood generally gives 80% of original developer sales price on resales used as trade-ins. But I also recall another thread last year, in which some had said that Starwood wouldn't take Florida weeks as trade in on Phoenix weeks. I've the impression Starwood is selective on the weeks they'll take back. Am I wrong? Has anyone used a resale or SVN florida week to trade up on say a Hawaii, Kierland or St John unit?
I can see Starwood taking back a Florida week to sell another Florida week.

As I stated before we were given 18,000 for a VV 2br we purchased for 900. We used to upgrade an annual WPROV to Fixed week, fixed unit (Hammerhead corner unit) plus added an EOY Fixed Fixed and had to add 20K.

Also, I think everyone is saying the same thing: The value is the last developer sales price (even if a subsequent requal, ROFR etc)

 

[dsmrp]

As I stated before we were given 18,000 for a VV 2br we purchased for 900. We used to upgrade an annual WPROV to Fixed week, fixed unit (Hammerhead corner unit) plus added an EOY Fixed Fixed and had to add 20K.

Also, I think everyone is saying the same thing: The value is the last developer sales price (even if a subsequent requal, ROFR etc)

Ah okay, thx. I forgot about the $20K new money part for uptrades.
There was some thread long awhile back about some guy who had like 6-8 EOY SDOs who did some complex uptrade for Kierland units. I just haven't found it yet...

 

[Markus]

Trades

It's good that Starwood generally gives 80% of original developer sales price on resales used as trade-ins. But I also recall another thread last year, in which some had said that Starwood wouldn't take Florida weeks as trade in on Phoenix weeks. I've the impression Starwood is fairly selective on the weeks they'll take back. Am I wrong? Has anyone used a resale or SVN florida week to trade up on say a Hawaii, Kierland or St John unit?
I can see Starwood taking back a Florida week to sell another Florida week.

They are very selective in what they take back. They normally do not want any gold weeks, or will only trade them against the flex product. They used to upgrade within the same resort, but not so much any more.