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First Time Time Share Owners at Maui Ocean Club - We Have Questions?

ktroncroz

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Hi all,

My family was in Hawaii last week on vacation. While my wife and were taking a nap and a break from our 2.5 year old twin boys we saw an ad for the Maui Ocean Club on TV. Later that evening we stopped into the marketing center on Front Street and arranged a presentation for the following day (Tuesday). We like the story and a time share seemed to make a lot of sense for my family, so at the end of the presentation we ended up with a:
* EOY (odd years) floating access to a 2 Bedroom/2 Batg Villa with lockoff in the Napili tower (to be completed in Feb '09) at a cost of $25k.
* 100,000 Marriott Reward points
* We financed through Marriott but plan to pay off the note in just a short period of time (2 to 3 months).
* 18 months to buy another EOY for even years at same price and another 100,000 MRP.
* II membership.

We plan to most likely use the timeshare in hawaii for the next few years. We will then probably pick up the other half and trade that for places like Disneyworld and fun locations for the kids. As a family we like to travel off season and avoid the crowds - hopefully this works in our favor when we trade, etc.

As soon as we made the purchase I began scouring the internet to determine if we did right thing and I ended up here. I have been reading the threads here and all information that I can find as quickly as I can to try and understand all the details.

Today is Sunday, I believe tomorrow is the last day I can rescind so I am trying to confirm that I made right decision and also make sure I can get the most from my purchase.

So the following questions come to mind:

1) Did I do the right thing buying from the developer? Looking around I don't see many MOC units available for resale and the ones I do see are mostly in the original building (no full kitchen). That being said would patience serve me well and get the same unit (or an every year unit) at the same cost or cheaper in our bad economy?

2) I have seen people mention paying for the TS with the Marriott card for additional MRPs (75k in this case). Is this a good idea given what I have seen about some of the devaluing MRP? I saw something about need to convert the transaction to cash instead of marriott financing.

3) Is there anything else I should know, double check or otherwise read to get the most of out our time share? Any advise you can provide would be much appreciated as we finalize this deal in the next day or so.

I will be re-reading the paperwork today to make sure I hopefully understand what we have gotten ourselves into.

This is great resource and I am sure if stay in the TS world I will be a tug member soon.

Thanks,
Kevin
 

gmarine

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Your arent 100% sure so the best thing to do is rescind. Your paying a huge premium buying from the developer and the only advantage is the ability to trade to MR points. In the past there have been time when that could be cost effective but Marriot recently changed the program making it much less attractive.

Resale prices are also heading down fast and there are many bargains to be had in the coming months. Again,rescind then take your time before you purchase.
 

Jpollo

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I'm not familiar with Napili Tower at the Maui Ocean club, but Marriot Timeshares resales seem to be going for 40-50% of the developer price. I've seen some as low as 35% of developer price, and we just picked up Waiohai EOY Ocean View resale for $12,100 that retails for for over $28,000. And even then some Tuggers thought I paid too much.

Hope this helps,

Jason
 

vacationtime1

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Another comparable to MOC's Napili Tower would be Westin Ka'anapali (WKORV), about a mile north. It is not on the strip as is Napili, but the concept is very similar and the two bedroom lockoff units have full kitchens.

You can get an annual ocean view resale there for $25,000 - $30,000; an annual two bedroom garden view will go for much less (I suspect south of $20,000). At the adjacent WKORVN (N = North), the units are newer, smaller, and a bit more expensive, but still far cheaper than the developer numbers you are looking at.

Waiohai is on Kauai. We own there and love it. The units are again similar to MOC's Napili Tower and WKORV (although Waiohai is non lockoff), but Kauai has a different ambiance and Waiohai has a much smaller and more laid back feel to it.

I strongly agree with the previous posts that resale prices are in a virtual free fall and that time is your ally. I therefore agree with the posts suggesting that you rescind and suggest additional on-site research before purchasing.
 

cp73

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Kevin

Do yourself a big favor and rescind. Take your time, research, study, and evaluate your options. It is a beatiful resort and one of Marriott's best. However you should easily be able to find one for at least 50% off. 100,000 points will only get you about 3 nights in a category 7 Marriott hotel. If you have an interest in saving at least $12K rescind. If money is no object buying from Marriott is the easiest and quickest way to go.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Rescinda-Sinda-Sinda.

EOY (odd years) floating access to a 2 Bedroom/2 Batg Villa with lockoff in the Napili tower (to be completed in Feb '09) at a cost of $25k.
I would have to be totally out of my helmet to blow $25,000 on a timeshare -- anybody's timeshare anywhere -- EEY or EOY or every year mox nix.

Sheesh.

Get out of it while you can.

Then, after you're out from under, go buy your timeshare resale -- save $10,000 (or more).

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​



 

Latravel

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Normally I am a very big proponent for buying from Marriott for many reasons such as being able to exchange for points to go to places where there are no timeshares and for receiving a large amount of incentive points which make up the price difference between developer and resale.

However, in your case, you did not receive nearly enough incentive points to justify paying full price. Also, Hawaii has such high maintenance fees that you shouldn't really exchange the unit for points.

If you love Maui and want to go year to year, buy on the resale market. Once you get more proficient with the whole timeshare game, you can purchase a different property from Marriott with a lower initial cost and higher incentive points to trade for points year to year. That's what we did with purchasing Shadow Ridge.
 

Jpollo

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Saw a Waiohai annual usage go last week on Ebay for less than $14,000.

That sounds about right for an Island View. The last annual Ocean View went for $18,100, and I think I've seen them as low as in the 16,000's.
 

Lawlar

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Rescind!!!

After purchasing our timeshare at Maui Ocean Club, I learned that a number of things the sales rep told us were simply untrue. The biggest complaint I had after purchasing was that you cannot reserve the dates you want. Priority is given to those who own more than one week (they get to pick their dates 13 months in advance). Many owners of floating week units are very unhappy.

We have been staying in Maui once or twice a year for over 25 years (and we got married there). We have always been able to get good hotels at discount rates by watching for specials. Especially when the economy is bad. You don't need to lock yourself into a long term loan, at a high interest rate, to stay in the best location in Maui.

You will also find that the maintenance fees go up about 10% a year. We could rent a nice hotel for less than our yearly maintenance fees.

That said, if you had to buy at Maui Ocean Club, then I highly recommend that you pay the extra bucks and get a fixed dated unit. After threatening to sue Marriott for fraud, they agreed to renegotiate our contract and we purchased a fixed unit so that we can go every year on the date that is convenient for us (when we can take the grandkid during whale season). Otherwise we would have had to go without the grandkid during the offseason. After paying $50,000 plus yearly maintenance fees, who the heck wants to be stuck taking dates that are undesirable.

That said, we recently listed our unit for resale and we had several people express a strong desire to purchase from us (they all owned fixed week units, the week before or after). I believe we could sell at about what we purchased (maybe). But if we had a floating unit, the resale price would be far less.

We declined to sell our unit because the grandkid and my wife love the idea of going there every year and having an ocean front, first floor unit. But I would tell anyone who asked me that they are better off rescinding their contract with Marriott and doing something better with their money.
 

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Rescind and research! There is so much superb information out there, much of it on TUG. In this economy, it's not like Marriott is going to sell out of inventory any time soon. Make sure you really look long term at how your family will want to vacation, not just over the next 5 years, but 30 years from now. Comparison shop and look at other companies as well. We decided that we wanted to stay on Disney property when in Orlando, so we bought DVC (essentially an EOY) and are in the market for an EOY Marriott to complement the DVC points. There's lots of great options out there, and it's clearly a buyers market. It really seems like the value of Marriott rewards points is diminishing, so think twice about buying from the developer.
 

sernow

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Your first priority tomorrow is to rescind this purchase. If the postage is less than $10,000 consider yourself ahead.
 

TheTimeTraveler

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Bail while you still legally can! Do some research, and if you still want to buy from Marriott you can always go back to the well and do it all over again.

It's a good time to get out with the economy heading downhill and the points program changing (and not for the better!).

Keep your hands in your pockets and think about buying resale!
 

GaryDouglas

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Club Suites and Villas
1) Did I do the right thing buying from the developer? Looking around I don't see many MOC units available for resale and the ones I do see are mostly in the original building (no full kitchen). That being said would patience serve me well and get the same unit (or an every year unit) at the same cost or cheaper in our bad economy?
Probably not. But, they didn't start selling EOY in the Napili tower until just recently. Which means if you want to buy this specific unit as a resale, you may have to wait awhile. If you don't mind waiting, then time is on your side. Resale timeshare prices should stay down for a year or two, minimally, so if you learn all the places to buy timeshares resale (brokers, eBay, MyResortNetwork, RedWeek, timeshareresaleshawaii, etc.) and come up-to-speed on timeshares in the meantime, then yes, patience is your friend.

2) I have seen people mention paying for the TS with the Marriott card for additional MRPs (75k in this case). Is this a good idea given what I have seen about some of the devaluing MRP? I saw something about need to convert the transaction to cash instead of marriott financing.
If you do buy from Marriott, yes, run it through your Marriott Rewards Visa. You'll get 3 to 5 times, based on the type of Marriott card you use. Devaluation is another story. The way around that issue is to use them as fast as you can.

3) Is there anything else I should know, double check or otherwise read to get the most of out our time share? Any advise you can provide would be much appreciated as we finalize this deal in the next day or so.
You've already started. After you recind, continue your research here. You'll be an expert within the next 6 months or at least well on your way...
 
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davidvel

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The only thing I can add is to rescind in the exact manner described in your paperwork: ie. if it says certified mail, don't send fed-ex, if it says return receipt, do that, etc. Use every method permissible if more than one.

DO NOT CALL THEM!

Do not feel disappointed, guilty or talk yourself out of cancelling. You can always buy at the exact same deal later (better deal probably), but don't do it now.
 

Latravel

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I also want to add that I do think you are doing the right thing by looking into a timeshare purchase. We also have 2 young children like you and you really can't compare a timeshare stay to a regular hotel stay. I don't know what I would do without a fridge for the milk and at least a mini kitchen for the early breakfast that they must have as soon as they wake up. I would pass on this deal but still consider a timeshare purchase.
 

cp73

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This is great resource and I am sure if stay in the TS world I will be a tug member soon.
Thanks,
Kevin
Kevin,

This really is a great resource of people. I would guess there is at least 50-75 people plus who post on this board continuosly. Also don't think we are all down on Marriott. In fact you will learn that most of the people on this board love their Marriott timeshare and are very happy with their purchase. You will also find out that a lot of them did purchase directly from Marriott. After reading these posts and asking questions you will learn the best way to get usage out of your timeshare and trading. Also you may learn some things about where is the best place for you to buy. You can also learn about all the costs associated with splitting and trading your timeshare. These are all important items when it comes to making your buying decision.

As others have stated rescind while you still can. Then take your time and use this board as your research tool. You can always call Marriott back at any time and purchase from them. They have plenty of inventory.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 

ktroncroz

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Thank you - all I guess the right answer is to rescind right now and figure out what we really need.

We got married on Maui and really do want to vacation there, so I think MOC is the right place (although the more I think about the MF the more I wonder).

In the short term just so I can browse around can some folks suggest some reputable resale websites so I can see what else is out there at what prices?

Thanks so much for all of your input, so far this really has been an educational experience.

Thanks,
Kevin
 

Jpollo

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Here are some I use:

www.redweek.com

www.timesharesonly.com

www.sellmytimesharenow.com

www.vacationtimesharerentals.com/

And from the properties I've been following, actual sales seem to be at 25% less than the lowest asking prices I've seen on various sites. It's also good to follow Ebay as you may see some very good deals there.

Here's an extensive database that a Tugger has provided where you can find actual sales figures http://dioxide45.tripod.com/cgi-bin/rofr.cgi The search-by-resort option is at the bottom of the page.

Hope this helps, and I'm looking forward to what others use as well.

Jason
 

m61376

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Kevin-
Hopefully you rescinded today following the directions in your packet. After doing that, relax and enjoy the rest of your vacation. Despite any follow-up calls you may receive, if you change your mind Marriott will always be ready to sell you a unit with a similar deal.

That said, given the current state of the economy, the next several months, esp. as maintenance fees come due, are likely to be a buyer's market. We have already seen it. Two years ago the units in Hawaii, Aruba, Plat. ski weeks and perhaps a few others were selling for maybe a third off developer's prices in the resale market. Today, there have been several posts from other Tuggers having bought or seen Ebay auctions for Hawaii units at prices that would never have passed ROFR (when you buy resale, the contract has to be submitted to Marriott and they can opt to buy it from the seller for the agreed upon purchase price, instead of the prospective buyer); many "steals" are passing ROFR recently.

Besides the websites mentioned above, contact a few reputable resale brokers when you get home. A few that I'd rec. are Shelley from transactionrealty.com and Jessica from timesharing2000.com. I am sure others will mention a few more. Tell them what you are looking for and you will likely hear back if they don't have what you want in inventory at the moment.

As someone who just recently got into timesharing, my biggest regret is that we didn't discover it sooner, when our kids were still kids. When I think about all the trips in cramped hotel rooms.... That said, you are not making a mistake and Marriott is an excellent product. Not the cheapest way to go by far, but you are buying quality.

One more think to consider- if you are intending only to go to Hawaii every other year, then buying an EOY unit might be the best route for you (unless you find an annual unit that is too good a buy to pass up), and then buying either another EOY unit or an annual unit elsewhere. Hawaii MF's are considerably higher than others so, while Hawaii units are great traders, you'll likely be paying an extra $500 a year or more, so buying to use for trading may not be the most cost effective way to go.

Take time to read here and learn the ropes- and welcome to Tug:wave:
 

funtime

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Hopefully you have now rescinded

If you have not, enjoy a drink at the pool next year with Marriott owners who paid less than $5,000 for their EOY at a stateside Marriott and who have traded in. Granted they may have a garden view but oh well. With the economy in the doldrums, I am seing more and more Hawaii units in II for exchange. I second what others have said -- we are not anti timeshare or anti Marriott -- just want to see you get started on the right foot. Funtime
 

ktroncroz

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Rescinded..

Well I emailed, faxed and fedex'd my paper work today to rescind.

Our sales person called and wondered what had changed - I refrained from saying "you guys (tug) told me too, because I could get it cheaper on resale". I just said with the uncertainty in the economy it didn't make sense to assume a large debt - blah, blah.

Now on to searching for the perfect timeshare. Thanks for the sites and contacts for resale. I will start checking them out.

In the meantime, we do want a time share - 2 bedrooms and a kitchen with 2 little kids is a must have. We do want to go to hawaii at least EOY if not yearly.

So...

1) Do I try and find a cheap Maui Ocean Club 2Bd/2Ba Villa and deal with the high maintenance fee or...

2) Do we look somewhere else with a cheaper maintenance fee (where?) and then try and trade for week in Hawaii?

From the sounds of it - even if you do have a Maui Ocean Club unit it maybe difficult to get a week - which brings up my next question:

We are off season travelers (hate crowds) so if we by a time share somewhere do really have to book 12 months ahead (to the day)? or can you book 3 or 6 months out with any issues?

In the meantime I will keep reading and learning and thanks for all the great advice so far - future vacations (and generations) appreciate it!

Thanks,
Kevin
 

Rickh

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We own a 2 bedroom OV at Maui Ocean View and absolutely love it. In terms of booking 12 months out, yes, it can be challenging, but as I understand it, July seems to be the peak month and the most difficult to get reservations. That is what they told us when we went to the Owners Information Session when we were last there.

In the last two years, we have been successful at booking our week in March (Canadian School Break) and in August. We booked both of these 12 months out when the phone lines opened, however we were able to get what we wanted. I have never been able to get a week in July, and have given up trying since its not that big a deal to me if we go in July or August.

The only thing I would caution you on is to think ahead. It sounds like your kids are young, but there will come a day when you are required to travel in peak holiday times. If this is not the case for you, getting a reservation in offseason probably won't be a problem.

I don't have any experience trading into the resort in off-season so will let someone else address your question.

Good Luck with your decision

Rick
 

m61376

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Kevin-
As the above poster pointed out, your travel times will likely change over the years when your kids begin school. Right now that seems far away, but it isn't. And, believe it or not, they will change again in 15 years or so :) .

A few answers to your questions:
-if you buy in Maui (or any place else) and want a peak vacation week, then you really do need to call exactly at the first possible booking time. Yes, there are owners who have been closed out week after week during peak times, but most disgruntled owners are those that have in mind a certain peak week, and if they don't get it, they are upset. Timesharing works best if you are flexible.

As for booking 3-6 months out- if you want an off-season week, you can do that, but you will be limited to left-overs. A better strategy would be to book at the 12 month mark, and then if your plans change closer in, see if a better date is available. As long as it is more than 60 days before travel, you can change your reservation for only a $29 fee through Marriott.

If you have a lot of flexibility and want to book less than 59 days, you can take advantage of Flexchange. You trade through II, and basically even your studio half will see anything that's avilable. Great way to nab a nice 2 BR..

- As for short term strategy, given your current and likely future needs: since you are very flexible now wrt dates and, given the economy, I would suggest buying an annual unit someplace other than Hawaii. Given the cost of airfare and young kids, you might want to consider something within driving distance. If you want maximum trading power, buy during Platinum season. Buy someplace you'd like to visit at least once every few years. Keep in mind that some resorts, such as NCV, are dedicated 2 BR's, while others are lock-outs.

In the near future you will likely have no trouble trading into Hawaii. If you can take advantage of Flexchange and if you buy a lock-off unit, you might want to consider locking off and depositing, using your studio side during Flexchange for one trade and putting an on-going request in for your 1BR side (with young kids, you can use a 1BR and thus get more than one week out of your unit if you choose to do so).

-Given your traveling preferences and anticipating that a few years out the economy will turn around, I'd also keep an eye out for what you originally wanted- an EOY in the new Maui towers. If not today or tomorrow, a good resale will crop up. That way, you'll be able to reserve what you want and not be subject to the limitations of trading. The flip side to the advantages of lock-offs is that most people lock-off before trading, so finding a prime-time Maui 2BR is not always a sure thing, and if you want to visit there every other year than owning an EOY Maui makes sense, because you'll be sure to get what you want and the view that you purchase. This is even more imp. if view is important to you. If I lived on the West coast there is no question I'd buy an EOY Hawaii unit. This way, you are encumbered only by half the higher MF's, so you are not "wasting" the extra fees every other year when you are trading.

Overall, you will pay less for an EOY Maui and an every year elsewhere on the resale market than you were on the deal you just rescinded. The only disadvantage is that you won't be able to trade for points, but that doesn't seem to be of interest to you and the value is even more questionable given the recent changes to the reward packages; at any extent, Hawaii MF's are too high to make trading for points a good idea.

For now, take time to read, learn the ropes, ask questions, and think about where else you will enjoy visiting over the next several years. Given that you are so young (and will likely be traveling as a family for many years) then a lock-out may not be as important to you (although plenty of families choose to get the most out of their timeshare investment and enjoy trips in the 1BR and even the studio portion with young kids- it depends upon your finances and needs).

Good luck and keep us posted!
 

aka Julie

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Ebay Auction

Here's a link to an Ebay auction for a 2 bed/bath EVERY year (mountain/garden view) being sold by Seth Nock, a trusted reseller according to many TUGGers.

The Buy It Now price is $25,500

http://cgi.ebay.com:80/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270294740855&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

I'm not familiar with Maui Ocean Club so don't know how this compares to what you were going to purchase from Marriott. But you said it was EOY at $25,000.

I've never bought from Seth, but others on TUG have (you can do a search). Here's his website:

http://www.sellingtimeshares.net/
 
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