first puchase in HGVC

[brettskyg]

I managed to land 2 deals that I am in the process of signing contracts on.

First deal:

Las Vegas Strip every other year 3400 gold 1br
2015 points included to be banked by me for 2016. First maintenance due is 1/17.
I pay closing cost/transfer fee of $800.
Purchase price of $1.25
maintenance approx 750

Second Deal

South Beach annual 3400 gold 1 br
first maintenance due 1/16.
Closing cost 800
Purchase price 400
maintenance 1000

I am new to HGVC. I am aware that the combination of these two packages will probably next me a slightly higher maintenance fee than one package at the equivalent point total which is making me somewhat skeptical of my plans here. However, i really do not want 6,800 points annual, it is too much for my intended use. Also, the up front purchase price would be signifgantly higher although only one closing cost/transfer fee.

I know South beach carries a higher maintenance, but it is supposed to be by all accounts a great propery and a high in demand location whereas vegas seems to be a dime a dozen and completely over saturated. If I plan on staying in south beach maybe 5 times in a 10 year period, is it worth having the higher MF, to get the 12 month booking window for a gold season reservation? I was thinking it was worth it but you guys would know better than me. Hotel rooms in South Beach can go for a LOT of money.

I have been told that both of these amazing deals were made available as owners are dumping out before the 2016 MF's are due. I would love some feedback on whether these are good deals, whether buying two of them in this manner makes any sense? Whether buying in South beach with a slightly higher MF makes sense, and whether i am not better off just buying 1 unit worth more points all at once up front but paying a much higher price.

Thanks for the anticipated feedback.

 

[SmithOp]

If you only plan staying every other year why not just buy the LV unit and combine the 3400 points to get your reservations. Its not that hard to get gold season reservations at 9 months, a little harder with platinum season. That 6800 point maint fee is going to be double what you would pay with a single LV 7,000 point, run the numbers on 10 years of use to see which is better, high up front or high annual maint fee.

PS dont fall for the amazing deal BS, these 3400 point contracts are a dime a dozen because the points are so low for the maint fee. Its what the HGVC sells to people for entry level ownership, they get dumped all the time. Dont ever feel pressured to hurry and purchase with a timeshare, they are like buses, another will be along shortly.

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[presley]

If you want to stay in South Beach, you may as well own there. You have to book exactly what you own and do a full Saturday - Saturday stay for the home reservation. If you don't book that, it doesn't matter where you own.

You mentioned you don't want 6800 points every year. Have you looked at a gold 5000 point annual? The buy in is much less than a platinum week and your MFs will be lower than owning 2 contracts.

EDIT: I agree with SmithOP that you can get deals like the ones you are looking at all the time and not just before MFs are due.

 

[SmithOp]

Here is how easy it is to book at 9 months, remember you only get home season advantage for a short gold window.

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[brettskyg]

Thank you for showing me that calendar at the 9 month window for South Beach. Makes me feel better about everything. The only reason as a single guy that i would want more than 3400 is some of the resorts for the 1BR (at least in canada) carry a higher point requirement. Also, perhaps i did want to book on a platinum week, it would give me some leverage.

 

[brettskyg]

5,000 points annual may be the way to go the more i research this.... could use a 1br and studio with this in gold, thus getting 2 weeks of full usage for only a tiny bit more, and also 1 closing cost.

 

[SmithOp]

5,000 points annual may be the way to go the more i research this.... could use a 1br and studio with this in gold, thus getting 2 weeks of full usage for only a tiny bit more, and also 1 closing cost.

Agree, and one maint fee for ten years of anticipated use.


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[Jason245]

5,000 points annual may be the way to go the more i research this.... could use a 1br and studio with this in gold, thus getting 2 weeks of full usage for only a tiny bit more, and also 1 closing cost.

Look into a 1 br plat.. Bay club is probably the least expensive buy in but mf are about 400 more per year then similar units in Vegas or Orlando.

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[JSparling]

I don't know anything about South Beach. But I know a lot about the Vegas Strip property:

I just closed on a gold 1BR with 3,400 points (same unit as you) but paid $1 - so much less than your $1.25 purchase price. I got it on EBay. Closing for me with everything (closing, transfer, Estoppel, and activation fee) was about $1,100. So you come out on top there. However, $800 sounds way too low. $399 goes to HGVC for the transfer. And another $315 for the activation. And then $35 to HGVC for the Estoppel. That's $749 automatic, no way around it (meaning you or the seller has to pay so perhaps you're splitting these?) Otherwise that only leaves $51 for closing.

Anyway, the pricing is fine. The problem is your EOY. With the amazing flexibility HGVC allows us (not sarcasim) to borrow points and "rescue" (push, save, use next year) you're really getting 1,700 points a year. But that won't get you much of anything by itself. If you just wanted points for cheap then good for you. If you want to use this in Vegas or for a specific week somewhere I don't know how happy you're going to be.

PS - Your MF is wrong (but in a good way). The fees due for this unit in 2015 were $570.48. The fees due for this unit in 2016 are $581.80. The club dues (not related at all to MF's) were $140 last year and are $150 this year.

 

[brettskyg]

I was not including the points activation fee, but yes I am aware of that fee.

I ran an analysis on Excel of the virtues of buying the two properties above, versus a 5,000 point package at LV Paradise I was offered with an all-in price of 3k (including closing/etc).

after 10 years, there is a savings on the 5k of $1,300, but but the 2 3,400 pt packages nets me an extra 4,400 points. 1,000 extra bc of the point difference, and 3,400 bc of the 2015 points that were unused that I will bank. Therefore, when you figure the extra 4,400 points, over 10 years there really is no difference at all. I could reduce the difference further if I opted for a 2nd low MF property rather than South Beach on the annual package,and based on the information posed above regarding the 1BR 9 month window at South Beach, it is probably prudent to go for another cheap MF in instead. After 20, 30 year it will probably be better with the 5,000 pt package, but again, not by too much.

Is LV Paradise known to be a low maintenance site? how does it compare on the 2 BR with the LV Strip maintenance?

 

[dsmrp]

Maybe another thing to consider is, if 'stuff happens' in a few years and you need to get out of these MFs, which one would be more desirable to buyers or easier to give away to someone else?

 

[Jason245]

I was not including the points activation fee, but yes I am aware of that fee.

I ran an analysis on Excel of the virtues of buying the two properties above, versus a 5,000 point package at LV Paradise I was offered with an all-in price of 3k (including closing/etc).

after 10 years, there is a savings on the 5k of $1,300, but but the 2 3,400 pt packages nets me an extra 4,400 points. 1,000 extra bc of the point difference, and 3,400 bc of the 2015 points that were unused that I will bank. Therefore, when you figure the extra 4,400 points, over 10 years there really is no difference at all. I could reduce the difference further if I opted for a 2nd low MF property rather than South Beach on the annual package,and based on the information posed above regarding the 1BR 9 month window at South Beach, it is probably prudent to go for another cheap MF in instead. After 20, 30 year it will probably be better with the 5,000 pt package, but again, not by too much.

Is LV Paradise known to be a low maintenance site? how does it compare on the 2 BR with the LV Strip maintenance?

More points means nothing if you arnt using them. Also, think break even on cash savings over this 10 year calc..

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[JSparling]

Is LV Paradise known to be a low maintenance site? how does it compare on the 2 BR with the LV Strip maintenance?

LV Strip is the lowest and LV Paradise (AKA Karen, AKA Convention Center) is the next lowest. If you buy a HUGE (like 25K) point package at HHV you may get a lower MF/point value but for regular folks like us these are the lowest properties for now. People will remind you that this could change over time. And that's true. But for now they are the lowest.

2BR

Strip - $802.57
Paradise - $913.74

1BR

Strip - $581.80
Paradise - $656.02


There really should be 1 number that matters at the end of the day when evaluating the best deal. The lowest TOTAL COST per point over 10 or 20 years. All costs (including closing and the activation fee which I'm not sure why you left out before) for 10 years. Add them up, multiply your annual points by 10, and then divide. If you can get down in the 20 - 22 cent range per point then you're doing great.

Looking just at the MF/point amounts (so disregard all buy-in costs) you want to be in the 9 - 11 cent range per point. That's a great range. 12 - 15 is pretty good. Don't go over 15 cents per point when doing the MF/point calculation.

 

[Jason245]

LV Strip is the lowest and LV Paradise (AKA Karen, AKA Convention Center) is the next lowest. If you buy a HUGE (like 25K) point package at HHV you may get a lower MF/point value but for regular folks like us these are the lowest properties for now. People will remind you that this could change over time. And that's true. But for now they are the lowest.

2BR

Strip - $802.57
Paradise - $913.74

1BR

Strip - $581.80
Paradise - $656.02


There really should be 1 number that matters at the end of the day when evaluating the best deal. The lowest TOTAL COST per point over 10 or 20 years. All costs (including closing and the activation fee which I'm not sure why you left out before) for 10 years. Add them up, multiply your annual points by 10, and then divide. If you can get down in the 20 - 22 cent range per point then you're doing great.

Looking just at the MF/point amounts (so disregard all buy-in costs) you want to be in the 9 - 11 cent range per point. That's a great range. 12 - 15 is pretty good. Don't go over 15 cents per point when doing the MF/point calculation.

When you are talking about less than 1k per year in addition cost, the whole chase to the bottom on MF seems a little over agressive, unless you are staying at locations where cash cost would be less than MF.



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[presley]

Is LV Paradise known to be a low maintenance site? how does it compare on the 2 BR with the LV Strip maintenance?

Those are both good places to purchase. You can look at specific breakdowns of MFs in the 2016 MF thread here. You'll notice that the Nevada properties have significantly lower real estate taxes than the others. In some cases, it's about 1/4 of the cost of the HGVC in Florida.

 

[Panina]

I look at it a little different. I just purchased a gold Hilton
week in Miami. I will stay in Miami a minimum every other year. I purchased where I want to stay most as to rent is very expensive.

If one is assuming what it will cost over ten years, we really don't know. I do not assume the lowest mf today will be the lowest in a few years, things change. Having owned timeshares for 30 years, one of my initial lowest mf is my highest now and my initial highest mf is my lowest now.

Also, just because this year it's seems easy to get the week you want nine months out, I do not assume that will always be true for a high demand area like Miami.

After 30 years my advice still is buy where you are going to use most, and the time you want to go, as that has the best value.

 

[weems637]

Don't forget that your desires and current usage may change over time into a need/want for those extra points. Although the conversion rate is poor, those extra HGVC points can be converted to Hilton Honor points, till you increase your HGVC usage. I use the flexibility to get a 2BR vs 1BR for certain trips. Borrowing from year to year also adds additional flexibility.

 

[brettskyg]

I made my decision and I decided to follow the advice here on TUG. I have a contract for $2,000 (including transfer and closing fees) for 5,000 gold package in I-drive in orlando.

It ends up being a bit cheaper over an extended period of time and I like the flexibility of the 5,000 points.

I was considering LV-Paradise for 2,500 all-in price but 150 less in maintenance. however, in the end LV is not the ost attractive place for me to visit, and the MF's can definitly change and are not set in stone.

I think at $2,000 all inclusive of feeds I am getting a very fair price and the broker that I worked with has been tremendous. I am very excited.

I can see myself using 1 week as a 1br gold, and a 2nd week as a studio in gold which equals 5,000. Perhaps I am being shortsighted getting I-Drive, but LV is just not something that carries much interest for me.

 

[dsmrp]

I made my decision and I decided to follow the advice here on TUG. I have a contract for $2,000 (including transfer and closing fees) for 5,000 gold package in I-drive in orlando.

It ends up being a bit cheaper over an extended period of time and I like the flexibility of the 5,000 points.

I was considering LV-Paradise for 2,500 all-in price but 150 less in maintenance. however, in the end LV is not the ost attractive place for me to visit, and the MF's can definitly change and are not set in stone.

I think at $2,000 all inclusive of feeds I am getting a very fair price and the broker that I worked with has been tremendous. I am very excited.

I can see myself using 1 week as a 1br gold, and a 2nd week as a studio in gold which equals 5,000. Perhaps I am being shortsighted getting I-Drive, but LV is just not something that carries much interest for me.

Sounds good, congrats.
Seeing that you're from New York, I think Florida is a more reasonable location for you to buy. You might want to go to your home resort once every few years (and I'm not being sarcastic). And you can get a 1 bdrm in Hawaii for 4800 pts.

At a very high level, I like to factor in the utilities for the MFs: water & electricity. Growing up on an island with good rainfall, electricity was the most costly cause they had to burn oil (diesel), and add to that transportation costs. In a desert, I think water is prime. LV likely has some kind of subsidy or agreement for electricity from Hoover dam. Even tho' LV is closer to me it doesn't carries much interest for me too.