Festiva takes over resort

[Sou13]

Festiva Adventure Club

Is it OK to launch a discussion here of what kind of offers Outfield Marketing is making to deeded interval owners? Why and how is it possible to join the Club as a "New" member? Is it OK to post how much it costs for how many points as opposed to how much it costs to convert?

 

[DeniseM]

It is fine to discuss all of that in the abstract. What you want to avoid is posting specific info. about TS's that you want to sell or buy. Those kinds of posts are edited, as Ads.

 

[tombo]

For anyone who is considering giving up their week to get Festiva Points,DO NOT DO IT!!!!!. The Festiva Points are worthless. You will no longer be an owner at your resort, you will become a Festiva Club member and Festiva will actually own your week. Festiva will vote on asessments, MF increases, they will vote themselves in as the mgt comany, and you will do whatever they want with no say from the "club members" because Points owners have no vote.

Here are 2 e-bay Festiva points ads. If you feel that you must own Festiva Points ( for the life of me I don't know why you would want them), bid on one of these and you will own Festiva points because you will be the only bidder. If you don't bid I feel sure that no one else will place a bid. I have watched 5 or 6 Festiva Points auctions expire with no bid being placed even though the starting bid was as low as $1. They are worthless, don't believe anything the salesman tells you. Here are 2 current auctions:

Auction number 220373567623 for 1500 Festiva Points at Peppertree Ocean Club SC which has a starting bid of $1 and no bids with only 17 hours left. If you don't bid $1 for this auction I would bet that it will not receive a bid.
This auction #220373983605 is for 1300 Festiva Points with a starting bid of $1. Of course there are no bids on this either because no one wants these points.

Keep your week. Don't let Festiva scare you or coerce you into giving up the week you own to become a member of the Festiva Adventure club. If you do join the "club", all you will have is the rights to use what is IMO worthless points for the next 30 years. Please do so realizing that you will be a member for the next 30 years because you will probably never find anyone who would take the points off of your hands for any price, even for free.

 

[somerville]

Tombo, Those "Festiva" points auctions on eBay are really for Equivest Vacation and Travel Club Points (EVTC). Anyone purchasing these points would have to pay to convert them to Festiva Adventure Club (FAC) points.

Festiva bought EVTC from Wyndham/Fairfield about two years ago. Festiva has been charging the same inflated conversion fee to EVTC owners that it is trying to extract from Southcape owners and has sent Outfield Marketing around the country trying to get EVTC owners to convert.

I haven't seen many offers to sell true FAC points packages.

The other info you posted about about giving up the deed to your property is correct. If enough owners convert, Festiva will be able to gain control of your board. Not a good result in my opinion.

I am curious as to how many FAC points Festiva is offering in conversion of a Southcape week?

 

[bnoble]

I own a couple fixed weeks at a resort that Festiva bought from Wyndham. After looking into it, I concluded that for my specific weeks, FAC was under-valuing them relative to my exchange options through II/RCI. I saw absolutely no value in converting.

 

[Carolinian]

Festiva, like Wastegate, is a developer which I would run, not walk, away from!

 

[Sou13]

I am curious as to how many FAC points Festiva is offering in conversion of a Southcape week?

It looks as though as though it's OK to compare offers here. I own what Festiva considers to be a "green float" week at Southcape. First I had to be scared into converting by being told how deeded owners would be liable for special assessments while Festiva members could count on lower MF's. Then I was told that I had to convert before the offer for my week was rescinded, and that I wasn't supposed to be eligible for as many points as I was being offered.

The offer of the day was to pay Festiva $2900+195 processing fee and deed my week over to a "trustee" for 40 years, renewable in 10-year increments. My MF was supposed to be lower than the current Southcape MF (but only $20 lower).

I was never extended an offer to join as a "New" member.

 

[somerville]

It looks as though as though it's OK to compare offers here. I own what Festiva considers to be a "green float" week at Southcape. First I had to be scared into converting by being told how deeded owners would be liable for special assessments while Festiva members could count on lower MF's. Then I was told that I had to convert before the offer for my week was rescinded, and that I wasn't supposed to be eligible for as many points as I was being offered.

The offer of the day was to pay Festiva $2900+195 processing fee and deed my week over to a "trustee" for 40 years, renewable in 10-year increments. My MF was supposed to be lower than the current Southcape MF (but only $20 lower).

I was never extended an offer to join as a "New" member.

I don't understand why you can not post what Festiva is wanting from you to convert your Southcape week to Festiva Adventure Club points. The fee they want to charge you is not an offer to sell and shouldn't be considered an ad. How many Festiva points would your green Southcape week convert to.

I also do not understand your comment about not being offered a "New" membership. That is not a Festiva term that I am familiar with. Equivest had New and Charter memberships to distinguish between points owners who converted a deeded week to points (Charter) or those who purchased just points (New) and did not own a specific week. The New points were supposed to be backed by intervals held by a trustee. Charter members continued to own their deeded week, and all Equivest memberships were permanent.

 

[tombo]

Tombo, Those "Festiva" points auctions on eBay are really for Equivest Vacation and Travel Club Points (EVTC). Anyone purchasing these points would have to pay to convert them to Festiva Adventure Club (FAC) points.

Sorry, those weren't Festiva Points. About 6 months ago on a Festiva thread I posted a Festiva Points auction that had a starting bid price of $99, and it didn't receive a bid. Some of the other auctions I watched in the past ( like the ones I recently listed) might have been equivest points. Here is an ad for Curch Street Inn for 20 points in an every odd year floating. The auction number is 250388044057 and it doesn't specifically say Festiva points so I can't be sure.

 

[tombo]

The other info you posted about about giving up the deed to your property is correct. If enough owners convert, Festiva will be able to gain control of your board. Not a good result in my opinion.

This is a very bad result. Festive gains control of a resort and makes a lot of money by assessing owners, increasing MF's and voting themselves the mgt company IMO.

People don't understand how Festiva can buy a small percentage of a resort and take it over. If Festiva can become owners of 20% of the total inventory by buying HOA owned weeks combined with the weeks they get owners to give them to become "Festiva Adventure Club Points members", they can take over your resort. Anyone who has ever been a board member knows that it is hard to get enough owners to mail in their votes each year to obtain a quorum of 51%. A large percentage of the owners don't bother to vote or send in their proxies. Festiva will vote 100% of their 20% ownership for whatever agenda they have. If only 31% of the remaining owners mail in their proxys, they have a quorum. Festiva puts it's own employees and other people who will vote however Festiva wants on the list of board candidates to vote for. If there are 2 people running for office, Festive votes 100% of their 20% for their candidates. All it takes is for 6% of the 31% of owners who actually voted in this example to vote for the Festiva candidates (who aren't listed that way on the ballott) and you have a Festiva controlled board (26% beats 25% every time). 49% of the owners never bothered to vote and the 25% that did vote against Festiva's board lost to Festiva's 20% ownership and 6% of voters who liked what it said on the nominee's resume.

Now you have the "Festiva board" choosing the management company (which surprise, surprise is Festiva). The Festiva board now controls all proxies, the 20% block vote they own, plus any owners they can convince to vote for the increases by sending out compelling letters explaining why it needs to be done. The board wants to assess, they send out letters, the members send in their proxies and the board votes them however Festiva wants. The Festiva management company runs short of money every year, the reserves are depleted, and the resort must be upgraded all at the expense of the owners. Owners get mad and quit. Festiva gets more weeks they own which they now can vote and make money on selling Festiva Points. The remaining owners complain to the board who doesn't care because they no longer represent the owners, they represent Festiva. The resort is now totally controlled by Festiva and there is nothing the owners can do about it other than sell. It all started with 20% or less ownership by Festiva.

Resorts who sell their unsold or reposessed inventory to Festiva are letting the fox into the henhouse with dire results. Any Equivest points owner or deeded week owner who swaps to Festiva Points is doing the same terrible thing to the other owners at their resort.

 

[Kozman]

I wouldn't touch Festiva with a ten foot pole!

 

[somerville]

... Any Equivest points owner or deeded week owner who swaps to Festiva Points is doing the same terrible thing to the other owners at their resort.

That is not quite true. If your points are what Equivest calls New points (not converted from a deeded week, which you still own (Charter membership)), then the intervals are held by the trust, which Festiva already controls. Even with the Charter membership, Equivest, and hence Festiva, exercises a right to vote those intervals. One former Equivest/Pettertree resort, Outer Banks Beach Club, took Equivest to court and obtained a ruling that the Charters members/owners have the right to vote, not Equivest. That ruling occurred when Wyndham/Fairfield owned Equivest.

 

[somerville]

Sorry, those weren't Festiva Points. About 6 months ago on a Festiva thread I posted a Festiva Points auction that had a starting bid price of $99, and it didn't receive a bid. Some of the other auctions I watched in the past ( like the ones I recently listed) might have been equivest points. Here is an ad for Curch Street Inn for 20 points in an every odd year floating. The auction number is 250388044057 and it doesn't specifically say Festiva points so I can't be sure.

Most, if not all, of those auctions were for Equivest points. When Wyndham/Fairfield owned Equivest, many of these same sellers on eBay would advertise their auctions under those brands.

I don't know what kind of points are being offered in the Church Street auction, but they are not Equivest or Festiva, as you couldn't even get a night's lodging for 20 points under either system.

FYI, 1 Equivest point = 1.7 Festiva points. 1,300 Equivest points = 2,300 Festiva points. Neither 1,300 Equivest points nor 2,300 Festiva points will buy much - mostly off season.

 

[Sou13]

I left out one important detail!

It looks as though as though it's OK to compare offers here. I own what Festiva considers to be a "green float" week at Southcape. First I had to be scared into converting by being told how deeded owners would be liable for special assessments while Festiva members could count on lower MF's. Then I was told that I had to convert before the offer for my week was rescinded, and that I wasn't supposed to be eligible for as many points as I was being offered.

The offer of the day was to pay Festiva $2900+195 processing fee and deed my week over to a "trustee" for 40 years, renewable in 10-year increments. My MF was supposed to be lower than the current Southcape MF (but only $20 lower).

I was never extended an offer to join as a "New" member.

I realized after logging out of the forums that I might have omitted how many points I was supposed to be getting for putting my deeded week into a "trust" and paying Outfield Marketing for the privilege!

My week at that time would have netted me 3500 points.

It is still unclear whether I would have been giving up voting rights at Southcape. This is why I have incorporated the link to the Master Deed in my signature.

I have learned from another Festiva Adventure Club member that it is possible to buy points as a "New" member and that there may even be bonus points for doing so!

Southcape Resort has been taken over by New England Vacation Services, which seems to be in partnership with Outfield Marketing, which appears to be a subsidiary of Festiva Resorts. We Southcape owners who post on TUG would appreciate any info you can give us about how this deal works. The other link in my signature is to the letter we received when NEVS took over management of our resort.

 

[tombo]

That is not quite true. If your points are what Equivest calls New points (not converted from a deeded week, which you still own (Charter membership)), then the intervals are held by the trust, which Festiva already controls. Even with the Charter membership, Equivest, and hence Festiva, exercises a right to vote those intervals. One former Equivest/Pettertree resort, Outer Banks Beach Club, took Equivest to court and obtained a ruling that the Charters members/owners have the right to vote, not Equivest. That ruling occurred when Wyndham/Fairfield owned Equivest.

The fact that Festiva can vote the majority of the equivest points makes it even more important for owners to keep any weeks or points that have voting rights out of Festiva's hands. This is not an owner friendly company.

I own at Blue Ridge Village in North Carolina and love the resort. Festiva purchased all available inventory and votes from Wyndham who purchased the resort from Peppertree as best I understand it. Phase one is not controlled by Festiva, at least not yet. In Phase two Festiva has control of the majority of votes and they have put 3 Festiva employees on the 5 member board. This is of course a very bad thing for those of us who have to pay for the MF increases and assessments Festiva wants implement to increase their profits.

I love Blue Ridge Village, but I am scared about future MF increases and assessments that inevitably come once Festiva gains control of a resort. Festiva will send out a newsletter stating that the resort needs ugrading and refurbishing so they must assess. Then every resort they take control of has inadequate reserves, so once again they must assess. Festiva's mgt comany must be the least efficient mgt company in the entire timeshare industry because once they take over the management duties at a resort they can never operate on a budget even close to what the previous mgt company operated on for years. Now Festiva enacts a double digit MF increase so they can somehow make ends meet. They did all of these things at The Atrium, Church Street Inn, and they have sent out letters at all of the equivest resorts they acquired setting the stage to do the same things there.

The resorts Festiva has acquired are great resorts that many owners love, but Festiva is so greedy that once they gain control of a resort they make it so expensive that many owners have to sell a place they love. I am trying to make sure that no one gives them a single vote more than they currently control and that no one who reads these posts buys or swaps their weeks for Festiva points which are virtually worthless from the auctions I have seen which receive no bids. If Festiva can't sell any Festiva Adventure Club memberships, or get any owners to convert to Festiva Points, they might go broke. That would be a very good thing for owners at resorts controlled by Festiva IMO.

 

[timeos2]

They all want control - don't pay them to grant it!

This is a very bad result. Festive gains control of a resort and makes a lot of money by assessing owners, increasing MF's and voting themselves the mgt company IMO.

People don't understand how Festiva can buy a small percentage of a resort and take it over. If Festiva can become owners of 20% of the total inventory by buying HOA owned weeks combined with the weeks they get owners to give them to become "Festiva Adventure Club Points members", they can take over your resort. Anyone who has ever been a board member knows that it is hard to get enough owners to mail in their votes each year to obtain a quorum of 51%. A large percentage of the owners don't bother to vote or send in their proxies. Festiva will vote 100% of their 20% ownership for whatever agenda they have. If only 31% of the remaining owners mail in their proxys, they have a quorum. Festiva puts it's own employees and other people who will vote however Festiva wants on the list of board candidates to vote for. If there are 2 people running for office, Festive votes 100% of their 20% for their candidates. All it takes is for 6% of the 31% of owners who actually voted in this example to vote for the Festiva candidates (who aren't listed that way on the ballot) and you have a Festiva controlled board (26% beats 25% every time). 49% of the owners never bothered to vote and the 25% that did vote against Festiva's board lost to Festiva's 20% ownership and 6% of voters who liked what it said on the nominee's resume.

Far too many owners buy into plans (not just the infamous Festiva) that take away their deeded and voting rights. BIG mistake IMO. You need every bit of guaranteed ownership you can get and still have to hope for competent HOA management. Putting your future ownership/rights in the hands of ANY developer group is a nightmare waiting to happen. Avoid that mistake.

 

[timeos2]

Maybe it can be undone

The fact that Festiva can vote the majority of the equivest points makes it even more important for owners to keep any weeks or points that have voting rights out of Festiva's hands. This is not an owner friendly company.

I own at Blue Ridge Village in North Carolina and love the resort. Festiva purchased all available inventory and votes from Wyndham who purchased the resort from Peppertree as best I understand it. Phase one is not controlled by Festiva, at least not yet. In Phase two Festiva has control of the majority of votes and they have put 3 Festiva employees on the 5 member board. This is of course a very bad thing for those of us who have to pay for the MF increases and assessments Festiva wants implement to increase their profits.

You should look at the timeshare regualtions for the State. In FL for example the Developer CANNOT retake control of the HOA once it is turned over to owner control. And that applies to subsequent developers (those that buy out the rights from the original builder/developer). If your state is the same then the takeover can be blocked or if it already occurred (hopefully) reversed. Of course you need to rally the owner base and have the money to fight them - neither easy to do. The rogue Developers like Festiva depend on that to weasel their way in without challenge.

 

[tombo]

You should look at the timeshare regualtions for the State. In FL for example the Developer CANNOT retake control of the HOA once it is turned over to owner control. And that applies to subsequent developers (those that buy out the rights from the original builder/developer). If your state is the same then the takeover can be blocked or if it already occurred (hopefully) reversed. Of course you need to rally the owner base and have the money to fight them - neither easy to do. The rogue Developers like Festiva depend on that to weasel their way in without challenge.

Festiva based themselves in North Carolina, so I would assume that is a state with laws that they like. Rallying the owner base is hard to do because few are TUG members and Festiva won't let you put flyers in the mailings. Few go to the annual meeting. Most owners simply know what Festiva mails them. It would be great to fight them, but the money and owner base needed would be hard to come by, and they have an attorney on retainer. The best I think we could hope for is the State Attorney General getting after them like the AG in Missouri did. The Atrium owners filed a law suit in St Maarten, so that is a possibility too but could be very expensive. A lot of people want to fight them until you ask for their time or money. Most owners will just sell if it gets too expensive because that is the easiest way to get rid of Festiva.

 

[somerville]

I have learned from another Festiva Adventure Club member that it is possible to buy points as a "New" member and that there may even be bonus points for doing so!

This is probably some developer sales gimmick. If you buy at an inflated developer price, they can throw in some bonus points to make you think you are getting a deal. Believe me, you will be paying for those "bonus points".

 

[Sou13]

Response from Festiva

I found this in a reply from Festiva posted on the Equivest-PeppertreeOwners · Equivest -Peppertree Timesh-Vacatn Club:

If your property is paid in full and you have no outstanding balances you can request to release your timeshare back to Festiva Resorts. You would not be compensated in this situation, but you would be relieved of any future maintenance fee responsibility. Let us know if you have any questions.

I joined this group to learn about problems with Festiva. I don't post there because I own a deeded Interval at Southcape, which has become affiliated with Festiva and has employed Outfield Marketing to cinvince, coerce, or scare deeded owners into converting to Festiva points.

 

[Sou13]

Reply to tombo

Your percentages have my head spinning. It looks as though it's impossible for an Owners' Association to block any takeover of the resort.

We deeded owners of Intervals at Southcape Resort don't know how the fox got into the henhouse but we know now that we need to contact all owners and only 10 have shown up on TUG.

I found M.G.L. 183B by perusing the Master Deed which is on the Southcape Resort website but not on the home page. It was sent to my by request, as was the 2009 budget. The duty of the developer or manager to keep owners informed is spelled out in these laws.

 

[santafe]

I attended a Festiva presentation in order to receive (in exchange for listening) 2 free airline tickets. I was given a coupon to mail off to get my tickets. Do you know if anyone actually gets the free tickets?

 

[somerville]

I attended a Festiva presentation in order to receive (in exchange for listening) 2 free airline tickets. I was given a coupon to mail off to get my tickets. Do you know if anyone actually gets the free tickets?

I don't have any personal experience, but from other posts that I have read, I would say your chances are not good. I bet you will find they don't have anything available the dates and destinations to where you want to travel.

 

[Sou13]

How many points?

I attended a Festiva presentation in order to receive (in exchange for listening) 2 free airline tickets. I was given a coupon to mail off to get my tickets. Do you know if anyone actually gets the free tickets?

The question is, how many points were you offered in exchange for what kind of week and at what price?

 

[FestivaRep]

Southcape Resort has been taken over by New England Vacation Services, which seems to be in partnership with Outfield Marketing, which appears to be a subsidiary of Festiva Resorts. We Southcape owners who post on TUG would appreciate any info you can give us about how this deal works. The other link in my signature is to the letter we received when NEVS took over management of our resort.

Just to clarify, Outfield Marketing is not a subsidiary of Festiva Resorts, but is a third party company that we have a contract with to sell FAC memberships at Southcape.