Fathers death and responsibility for timeshare?

[Blue sea's]

Hi everyone, Please be gentle with me as I'm very upset, and in a nervous state. I also may not have the answers to any further questions as, to be honest I know absolutely nothing about timeshares. So I apologize in advance if I sound like an idiot.

My parents took on a Westgate timeshare back in 1990. We barely ever used it as we always had to be in school that week.

Anyway, my parent's divorced back in 1996. My mum naively believed that my dad removed her from the deeds when they divorced. My dad went on to remarry and he and his new wife have spent a few occasions there themselves throughout the years. Most recently my stepbrother's had used it in 2019. My dad had always continued to pay the maintenance because his words were he couldn't get rid of it.

Sadly my dad passed away in 2019.

Now here's the bit that has me sick to my stomach. Today my mum received a letter from my father's solicitor indicating that my mum is still a joint owner! The letter states, that I assume my stepmother has passed the solicitor a letter in regards to the timeshare in which they are trying to transfer my dad's share to my mum! I hope that there is no truth but it could be that my dad's wife also hasn't continued with any payments possibly vindictively. I'm very concerned that my mum is now going to get stuck with a timeshare she hasn't visited and that she can't afford let alone ever dream to visit. She has not been to this timeshare since the early 1990s. Does anyone know if she will be liable for any unpaid costs? Have any advice on what she should do? Or has anyone else experienced the same thing?

Many thanks for your time and patience in reading this.

 

[DaveNV]

I am really sorry to hear this. But there are two questions: Was the timeshare specified in the divorce? If it was awarded to him, your mother may be able to prove she isn’t truly the joint owner any longer. That may take hiring another attorney to file paperwork to that effect.

If not, the simplest thing is for her to refuse to accept it. If she doesn’t pay any maintenance fees, the resort will eventually go through the collection process, and take back the timeshare. She may see a negative impact on her credit score, but that goes away soon enough. Check for other threads here about what happens when someone stops paying maintenance fees.

Westgate timeshares essentially have no value on the resale market, so there is nothing to sell.

Hope this is helpful. Good luck!

Dave

 

[bogey21]

I avoid using lawyers like the plague but this is one time I advocate consulting with one...

George

 

[Karen G]

So sorry for this situation. Does your mother live in England and is the timeshare located in Florida? I don't really know how just refusing to pay the annual maintenance fee would affect your mother's credit rating or even if her credit rating is of importance to her. Plus, if the timeshare is located in Florida, I believe that should she default on the fees and it go into foreclosure, nothing would happen except the cancellation of the ownership. If she's a resident/citizen of England, I seriously doubt the timeshare company could or would pursue any action against her.

Hopefully others who know more will give their opinion.

 

[Passepartout]

I assume you are British. In any case, have your solicitor (lawyer) write to whomever is trying to collect that the account owner is deceased, has been divorced from your mum for 30 years and that no heirs will accept the TS. Then go on about your business, as they can't force anybody to accept an unwanted bequest. They may generate some letters, but there is nothing they can do. Your dad has no need of credit, so even a bad credit report is meaningless.

I'm sorry for your loss, and offer sympathy.

All the best.

JIm

 

[Blue sea's]

I am sat here with tears in my eyes at all your kind replies. Thank you all for responding. Honestly, life hasn't been very kind the past two years as my father is one of 7 people close to me that has passed away and I really could do without this stress.

Even if you don't have legal expertise, just having these replies to relay to my mum to ease her concern really helps.

Yes, and live in and are British. The timeshare is in Orlando.

In regards to it being named in the divorce, I think it was ridiculously a spoken thing between them that it would be his responsibility. Bless her just typing that I can see how crazy that would sound but he was rather controlling and coercive and she just wanted out and things to be as amicable as possible for my sake.

Like a post above, I had read a thread online (possibly here) where the TS could get handed to me and I could refuse it. To be honest I'd sooner that than it bring a worry to my mother.

 

[Karen G]

Your mother is very fortunate to have you to help her and I'm sure she appreciates all you've done. You can reassure her that since the timeshare is in Florida, the state laws there protect an owner of a timeshare from being liable for anything beyond the timeshare itself. They can't have their wages garnished or any other property seized because the timeshare has been foreclosed on. The worst thing that can happen is that the membership would be cancelled and the timeshare couldn't be used in the future, which is what you want anyway.

Best wishes to you and your Mum.

 

[Blue sea's]

Your mother is very fortunate to have you to help her and I'm sure she appreciates all you've done. You can reassure her that since the timeshare is in Florida, the state laws there protect an owner of a timeshare from being liable for anything beyond the timeshare itself. They can't have their wages garnished or any other property seized because the timeshare has been foreclosed on. The worst thing that can happen is that the membership would be cancelled and the timeshare couldn't be used in the future, which is what you want anyway.

Best wishes to you and your Mum.

Thank you Karen you are very sweet. Actually what you said about any further property being seized was her biggest worry. So I really appreciate this comment as I can tell her she need not worry. Hopefully, everything will be ok.

 

[Paumavista]

Your family has owned this timeshare for a long time 20+ years......if there isn't a mortgage....you can post it on the TUG give away board and see if someone will help take it off your hands. I know that their are annual maintenance fees but the important factor is whether there is a mortgage. There may be some "give away" value worth looking into. Look above on this TUG site.

 

[Blue sea's]

Your family has owned this timeshare for a long time 20+ years......if there isn't a mortgage....you can post it on the TUG give away board and see if someone will help take it off your hands. I know that their are annual maintenance fees but the important factor is whether there is a mortgage. There may be some "give away" value worth looking into. Look above on this TUG site.

Thank you for your response. I'm not entirely sure what this "give away" involves but having another avenue to look into is appreciated.

 

[Karen G]

Here is the forum on TUG where you can give away a timeshare: https://tugbbs.com/forums/forums/free-timeshare-giveaways-and-bargain-deals.55/

 

[Family_travel]

Your family has owned this timeshare for a long time 20+ years......if there isn't a mortgage....you can post it on the TUG give away board and see if someone will help take it off your hands. I know that their are annual maintenance fees but the important factor is whether there is a mortgage. There may be some "give away" value worth looking into. Look above on this TUG site.

If the MFs are not current, it will be difficult to give it away. Also then his mother has to get involved to transfer the deed. It seems it would be better to not do any type of transaction with it. The father probably did not want to pay to have the deed re-issued in his name only, and thought it didn't matter as long as he paid for it.

 

[elaine]

Florida has a non-judicial foreclosure that timeshares are required to pursue if applicable categories are met. You can find posts about it on TUG with links.
The 2 questions are is it available to someone in the UK or only those residing in the USA. Also, if they are joint owners, then i think it’s available even if one spouse is deceased. If not available, most larger timeshares just foreclose on an in rem basis-meaning they just take the properly back without any additional fees owed. It is very important that your mom not defend, write an explanation or contest the legal paperwork if she receives non-judicial foreclosure documents. If she does, then it gets removed from that process. She will likely get several letters stating moneys owed, that she can’t use the unit, that they’re going foreclose, etc. then ultimately foreclosure papers.
In the USA, a timeshare foreclosure can affect ones credit rating but after a year of Covid problems, I don’t know how much that would matter. And I don’t know if a US timeshare foreclosure is even reported in the UK. Here is a link, but a search on TUG will also provide other links. http://archive.flsenate.gov/data/Publications/2011/Senate/reports/interim_reports/pdf/2011-201bi.pdf

 

[wackymother]

Thank you for your response. I'm not entirely sure what this "give away" involves but having another avenue to look into is appreciated.

I wouldn't mess with trying to give it away. If your mother is in England and the timeshare is in Florida, I'm thinking it will be difficult for Westgate to have much impact on her and her credit. I would talk to a lawyer...you may need the lawyer to write a letter saying that your mother is not interested in the property and will not be paying any fees. Good luck!

 

[bogey21]

Forget the lawyer and let them foreclose...

George

 

[Blue sea's]

Thank you everyone for sharing your advice with handling this. I'd personally be inclined to follow the advice here and let it foreclose. But I don't know if my mum could sleep at night, through fear of this coming back to bite her. If anyone is still reading this, Do we simply do nothing? Currently, Westgate have no way of reaching my mother. They haven't reached out to her address directly, they have no phone number etc. All we have is my step mother's solicitor's letter. Should we contact Westgate at all and explain the situation. Especially that we have no intention of paying it? or Do we just not do anything?

Also if my dad did owe on this timeshare (which I can't imagine he did) would that change anything or could we still proceed with ignoring all contact?

 

[Passepartout]

Thank you everyone for sharing your advice with handling this. I'd personally be inclined to follow the advice here and let it foreclose. But I don't know if my mum could sleep at night, through fear of this coming back to bite her. If anyone is still reading this, Do we simply do nothing? Currently, Westgate have no way of reaching my mother. They haven't reached out to her address directly, they have no phone number etc. All we have is my step mother's solicitor's letter. Should we contact Westgate at all and explain the situation. Especially that we have no intention of paying it? or Do we just not do anything?

Also if my dad did owe on this timeshare (which I can't imagine he did) would that change anything or could we still proceed with ignoring all contact?

I'd be likely to simply ignore Wastegate. But if you feel like asking dad's solicitor, that wouldn't hurt either. The question I might pose to him would be to inquire if an abandoned TS in the US could possibly affect Mum's credit. If not, Carry On! I don't think that in my years of reading 'How do I end the TS' type questions, I've NEVER heard of a non-U.S. owner's credit EVER being affected.

Jim

 

[Blue sea's]

I'd be likely to simply ignore Wastegate. But if you feel like asking dad's solicitor, that wouldn't hurt either. The question I might pose to him would be to inquire if an abandoned TS in the US could possibly affect Mum's credit. If not, Carry On! I don't think that in my years of reading 'How do I end the TS' type questions, I've NEVER heard of a non-U.S. owner's credit EVER being affected.

Jim

Thank you Jim, Here's hoping.

 

[elaine]

Again, it’s important not to “trump” any non-judicial foreclosure procedures. I don’t know if writing and inquiring is considered contesting and would kick it out of that procedure. Assuming it qualifies. The larger companies, likely westgate also, foreclose on them in batches. It can take 90 days if non-judicial and up to 2 years otherwise. If it were my mum in the UK, I’d also probably just let them foreclose. I don’t know how much a timeshare foreclosure after covid would matter even if it did get reported.
If you consult A solicitor, who is unlikely to know the nuances of Florida timeshare law, I’d ask if real Estate defaults from USA get reported to UK. You could also see if the uk had a public credit counseling agency or help call desk to ask or email that question. Good luck.

 

[Blue sea's]

Again, it’s important not to “trump” any non-judicial foreclosure procedures. I don’t know if writing and inquiring is considered contesting and would kick it out of that procedure. Assuming it qualifies. The larger companies, likely westgate also, foreclose on them in batches. It can take 90 days if non-judicial and up to 2 years otherwise.
if it were my mum in the UK, I’d also probably just let them foreclose. I don’t know how much a timeshare foreclosure after covid would matter even if it did get reported.
If you consult A solicitor, who is unlikely to know the nuances of Florida timeshare law, I’d ask if real Estate defaults from USA get reported to UK. You could also see if the uk had a public credit counseling agency or help call desk to ask or email that question. Good luck.

Thank you for such a detailed response Elaine.

 

[elaine]

Good luck to you. My relative had a timeshare in Florida. He was the only one on the deed. They could not use non-judicial foreclosure in cases of death without a surviving spouse on the deed. The resort foreclosed. It took about 2 years, with a number of letters sent to his last known address. . The lawyer said when a certified or FedEx letter from the resort came for his widow to decline and write deceased on declination. She did and eventually, the court sent final papers in the mail to indicating judgment had been entered and the resort had taken back the property and we were done.
Jerry E. Aaron, Esquire, out of palm beach Florida is the lawyer who processes one large group’s foreclosures. He might also do Westgate or know who does. It might be worth a call. His staff was very helpful answering a few questions during our ordeal. Good luck.

 

[elaine]

Here an example of how they foreclose at orange lakes. They do hundreds each year. https://legals.businessobserverfl.com/legal-notice-uploads/2021-03-25-Orange.pdf

 

[rapmarks]

I doubt they know your mother exists, this is why you heard from the second wife’s solicitor. She is trying to push off the matter. Certainly do not contact them unless you hear from them.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I am sorry to hear of your loss. I wouldn't even bother to contact them. Why give them her address so they can heckle her? Ignore the current wife stating that the ownership was relinquished with the divorce and you have no ownership.

Write a letter to the estate solicitor that "Your mother does NOT object to foreclosure." Keep a copy of this letter so if the current wife tries to object then you have it on record that your mother is not an owner, has not had knowledge of this unit nor usage rights of the unit for x years since the divorce and has not been billed for maintenance fees, but if there is some artifact of pre-divorce ownership in a deed, "then your mother does NOT object to foreclosure and is under non-judicial, anti-deficiency protections per Florida law." (best to run the letter by a lawyer with the legal link below if she can afford one.)

As an heir you should decline accepting this worthless timeshare and it's annual maintenance fees if it is in the will. Westgate cannot force the heirs to take it and the associated expenses so it falls back on the estate to go to into foreclosure without objection unless the current wife wants to assume ownership as a heir of the entire deed (removing your mother from the deed) and continue to pay for for annual maintenance fees.

IGNORE all communications from Westgate because she could be viewed as objecting to the foreclosure and then it changes from anti-deficiency to deficiency and then they can go after her assets (albeit unlikely given she is in the UK).

Read for Florida for non-judicial, anti-deficiency foreclosure:

Florida – FL, inaction or non-objection results in estate, anti-deficiency foreclosure, but objection leads to judicial, deficiency action: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0721/0721.html
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=61B-37

Links to Official State Timeshare Laws and Guides/Manuals

@TUGBrian @DeniseM @CalGalTraveler take a look. This weekend, I’m creating a spreadsheet with official links to states’ timeshare laws, as well as their statuses as to non-judicial, anti-deficiency foreclosures. In the meantime, I will just keep adding notes. * Legal Disclaimer: This list...

tugbbs.com

To put you at ease: Here is a link on experiences of others who have defaulted. Your mother is in good shape if she lives internationally and this is deeded in Florida. 0 out of 11 defaults.
Also if there is no loan on the unit (unlikely given how long it is owned) 0 out of 2 Westgate actions.

[ 2022 ] Timeshare Default Credit Report/Collection Tracking

Does anyone know if anyone has defaulted HGVC MF what was the outcome?

tugbbs.com

 

[silentg]

If your father took and used the timeshare exclusively for his second wife and family, then I would not contact the resort . Your mother shouldn’t have to pay maintenance or anything else since she was not aware her name was still on the deed. I’m sorry for your loss. Do you have a copy of the deed? ( I have revised my advice)
I hope this gets resolved soon. Let us know what happens.