Fair price - Westin Ka'anapali Ocean Resort Villas

[KyleReilly]

I’ve been reading here quite a bit, and wanted to get your advice on this resale I’m looking at. it’s a 2 Bedroom lockoff Ocean Front Every other year, for 10,000 plus $2100 in closing (includes administration fees). Closing costs seem a bit high, about double what I’m seeing elsewhere, however, the price for every other year oceanfront seems on par with resales. Thoughts? Think it will pass ROFR?

 

[vacationtime1]

I assume you mean OF at WKORV-North for that price.

I don't think it will pass ROFR, but there is only one way to find out. And if it does pass, you would be doing well on that purchase -- even if the closing costs are outrageously high.

 

[tschwa2]

I’ve been reading here quite a bit, and wanted to get your advice on this resale I’m looking at. it’s a 2 Bedroom lockoff Ocean Front Every other year, for 10,000 plus $2100 in closing (includes administration fees). Closing costs seem a bit high, about double what I’m seeing elsewhere, however, the price for every other year oceanfront seems on par with resales. Thoughts? Think it will pass ROFR?

If the price is on par with other resales get it from someone who isn't charging so much in closing costs. If it is someone like SMTN they won't negotiate about fees and closing cost so just think of it as $12,100 all in. It may pass ROFR, it might not. It maybe a little on the low side but you shouldn't offer more in hopes that it will be more likely to pass. If you lose 3-4 units than it might be time to offer more.

 

[KyleReilly]

I assume you mean OF at WKORV-North for that price.

I don't think it will pass ROFR, but there is only one way to find out. And if it does pass, you would be doing well on that purchase -- even if the closing costs are outrageously high.

Thank you - We are opening up Escrow, let's see how it goes. You are right, it is north (they sent me this listing when another wasn't going through). How did you identify it was north? Was it price point? One more thing, for North, isn't it true that even Studios have walk-out balconies (which is not the case for South)?

 

[echino]

Thank you - We are opening up Escrow, let's see how it goes. You are right, it is north (they sent me this listing when another wasn't going through). How did you identify it was north? Was it price point? One more thing, for North, isn't it true that even Studios have walk-out balconies (which is not the case for South)?

Here's WRORVN Oceanfront balcony:

 

[tschwa2]

Thank you - We are opening up Escrow, let's see how it goes. You are right, it is north (they sent me this listing when another wasn't going through). How did you identify it was north? Was it price point? One more thing, for North, isn't it true that even Studios have walk-out balconies (which is not the case for South)?

North's oceanfront isn't as straight out oceanfront as South.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/wkorv-vs-wkorvn-vs-wkorvnn.232583/

 

[KyleReilly]

Do the studios at North have balconies? I know the South studios do not.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Yes. Studios in the North have them. Also the IV in the North are more desirable because the South could end up with a view of the road or parking lot.

 

[rcv82]

Do the studios at North have balconies? I know the South studios do not.

Most studios in South do not have balconies, but all of the ocean front studios do. Also the deluxe and center end cap studios in building 4 have them. And these balconies are larger than those at north.


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[capjak]

10,000 is reasonable for WKORV north EOY (I purchased an annual for 19,000) .

 

[KyleReilly]

Thank you all, I submitted my deposit last night. Crossing my fingers this goes through ROFR, my spouse and I really love the resort and would love to visit every other year.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We own there and love it. You got a great price. Please report here and on ROFR.net whether this passes so you can pay it forward.

 

[KyleReilly]

I will do, thank you.

 

[pchung6]

It is a reasonable price. I think $12100 will pass the ROFR for EOY, good luck!

 

[dlpearson]

I offered $9,300 about 6 months ago for a WKORN every other year ocean front, and it didn't pass. But I think you have a decent chance at $10k.

 

[phofusion]

From what I understand, Marriott factors in the closing cost fees the buyer is paying into the overall price when deciding whether or not they exercise ROFR. Although high, overpaying for the closing cost, the $2100 on this purchase, might actually turn out to be a positive. Fingers crossed for you, Good Luck!


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[CalGalTraveler]

From what I understand, Marriott factors in the closing cost fees the buyer is paying into the overall price when deciding whether or not they exercise ROFR. Although high, overpaying for the closing cost, the $2100 on this purchase, might actually turn out to be a positive. Fingers crossed for you, Good Luck!


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If the unit is ROFRed is the closing agent eligible for the same closing cost? If so could this be a tactic for agents/discount warehouses to encourage owners to lowball the sales price to sell so it is ROFRed and sold quickly and they profit? i.e. they make more money than if they sold for market rate of $12,500 - $13,000 but for a lower commission. I believe that our closing costs a few years ago were a fraction of the $2100.

 

[phofusion]

If the unit is ROFRed is the closing agent eligible for the same closing cost? If so could this be a tactic for agents/discount warehouses to encourage owners to lowball the sales price to sell so it is ROFRed and sold quickly and they profit? i.e. they make more money than if they sold for market rate of $12,500 - $13,000 but for a lower commission. I believe that our closing costs a few years ago were a fraction of the $2100.

Yes, the selling agent if one is used is still due their commission as a sale will be transacted and completed. Closing costs are separate from the commissions the seller pays to the agent selling the time share, so this wouldnt factor into ROFR as its not something Marriott would be paying.

I can definitely see shady agents trying to advise sellers to sell as low as possible to get the quickest possible sale, cause no matter what they'll get paid whether or not ROFR is exercised or not.


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[CalGalTraveler]

This is interesting. The buyer is paying net not much different than what we paid when you factor in the high closing costs. ($12,100 this deal vs $12,500 we paid all in).

If it is ROFRed buyer wasted time.
The agent makes a hefty commission and a reliable fast close if ROFRed.
The seller is screwed unless they wanted to get out of the TS quickly

 

[wjarcher]

This is interesting. The buyer is paying net not much different than what we paid when you factor in the high closing costs. ($12,100 this deal vs $12,500 we paid all in).

If it is ROFRed buyer wasted time.
The agent makes a hefty commission and a reliable fast close if ROFRed.
The seller is screwed unless they wanted to get out of the TS quickly

Yup. Brokers get their commission regardless of the ROFR, and they just need an interested buyer to sign a contract (I got some low ball offer getting accepted quickly and later got ROFR'ed). In lots of cases though, the seller does not really care how much they are getting back (they just want it to be sold).

 

[KyleReilly]

Interesting - Yes, I didn't want to go with SMTN, but they seemed to have the best price for the Every Other Year. One thing that just rose a red flag for me was the contract, which slightly differed from the Good Faith agreement.

The Good Faith Deposit Agreement I signed Saturday states “Buyers 1st fee payment due: 1/2022”

The contract that came today states the following: “Seller to be responsible for 2020 maintenance fees and taxes. Buyer to start maintenance fee responsibility beginning in 2021 and forward. Resort will require payment of the 2021 maintenance fees to process the transfer. Resort may require payment of the 2022 maintenance fees to process the transfer.”

Therefore, agreement states I have to reimburse them for 2021 fees - is this standard and customary? Based on the original good-faith document, I was led to believe I would pay fees in 2022 (I know I pay annual dues even though its every other year usage, but believed my first dues would be in 2022. When I reached out to the broker, they said "The maintenance fees for an every other year ownership are broken down over 2 years. The owners did pay for the 2021 maintenance fees, as everything must be current and up to date for us to transfer. For us to start 2022 usage and get full usage we’d be responsible for the full maintenance fee not partial, sir. It may have been an administrative error on my part if the escrow was incorrect, but the contract we have verified and reviewed by the whole team before going forward." I further clarified and was told "If we wanted to start 2022 usage, we’d have to reimburse the seller for the partial fees he paid this year and the next fee which comes in January that belong to the 2022 usage. This is normal when buying an every other year ownership. one year they bill the maintenance fee higher than the next. One year always comes in at about $1600 and the other about $1300. The exact amount will be in the closing statement at closing."

Is that normal and customary?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

AFAIK. Yes. EoY fee is split over prior year and usage year. Otherwise they would be subsidizing your stay in 2022 with 2021 MF. Do you want to stay in summer? Make sure you get this closed quickly so you get 2022 usage with 12 month preference to book at midnight prior year (this summer)for best OF unit. (You already missed whale season for 2022 with owners preference.)

Otherwise you will need to bank the points by July 1 2022 and use SOs however you likely lose oceanfront stay preference as an OF owner. They become expensive Staroptions and you won't start to get true payback for your OF premium purchase until 2024.

Can you find an EOY odd for a similar closing price of $12k and no 2021 MF (or 2021 MF for free) so you are not rushed and could use in 2023? or negotiate the 2021 MF out of the deal since you will only get 1/2 year preferential OF usage in 2022?

 

[EnglishmanAbroad]

Interesting - Yes, I didn't want to go with SMTN, but they seemed to have the best price for the Every Other Year. One thing that just rose a red flag for me was the contract, which slightly differed from the Good Faith agreement.

The Good Faith Deposit Agreement I signed Saturday states “Buyers 1st fee payment due: 1/2022”

The contract that came today states the following: “Seller to be responsible for 2020 maintenance fees and taxes. Buyer to start maintenance fee responsibility beginning in 2021 and forward. Resort will require payment of the 2021 maintenance fees to process the transfer. Resort may require payment of the 2022 maintenance fees to process the transfer.”

Therefore, agreement states I have to reimburse them for 2021 fees - is this standard and customary? Based on the original good-faith document, I was led to believe I would pay fees in 2022 (I know I pay annual dues even though its every other year usage, but believed my first dues would be in 2022. When I reached out to the broker, they said "The maintenance fees for an every other year ownership are broken down over 2 years. The owners did pay for the 2021 maintenance fees, as everything must be current and up to date for us to transfer. For us to start 2022 usage and get full usage we’d be responsible for the full maintenance fee not partial, sir. It may have been an administrative error on my part if the escrow was incorrect, but the contract we have verified and reviewed by the whole team before going forward." I further clarified and was told "If we wanted to start 2022 usage, we’d have to reimburse the seller for the partial fees he paid this year and the next fee which comes in January that belong to the 2022 usage. This is normal when buying an every other year ownership. one year they bill the maintenance fee higher than the next. One year always comes in at about $1600 and the other about $1300. The exact amount will be in the closing statement at closing."

Is that normal and customary?

No. We own two EOY (odd and even) and the MFs for each are identical every year.

 

[wjarcher]

Interesting - Yes, I didn't want to go with SMTN, but they seemed to have the best price for the Every Other Year. One thing that just rose a red flag for me was the contract, which slightly differed from the Good Faith agreement.

The Good Faith Deposit Agreement I signed Saturday states “Buyers 1st fee payment due: 1/2022”

The contract that came today states the following: “Seller to be responsible for 2020 maintenance fees and taxes. Buyer to start maintenance fee responsibility beginning in 2021 and forward. Resort will require payment of the 2021 maintenance fees to process the transfer. Resort may require payment of the 2022 maintenance fees to process the transfer.”

Therefore, agreement states I have to reimburse them for 2021 fees - is this standard and customary? Based on the original good-faith document, I was led to believe I would pay fees in 2022 (I know I pay annual dues even though its every other year usage, but believed my first dues would be in 2022. When I reached out to the broker, they said "The maintenance fees for an every other year ownership are broken down over 2 years. The owners did pay for the 2021 maintenance fees, as everything must be current and up to date for us to transfer. For us to start 2022 usage and get full usage we’d be responsible for the full maintenance fee not partial, sir. It may have been an administrative error on my part if the escrow was incorrect, but the contract we have verified and reviewed by the whole team before going forward." I further clarified and was told "If we wanted to start 2022 usage, we’d have to reimburse the seller for the partial fees he paid this year and the next fee which comes in January that belong to the 2022 usage. This is normal when buying an every other year ownership. one year they bill the maintenance fee higher than the next. One year always comes in at about $1600 and the other about $1300. The exact amount will be in the closing statement at closing."

Is that normal and customary?

It depends on the negotiation. Some of my biennial purchases do not need me to reimburse. If you add the reimbursement and admin fees to this, it does not look like a deal that you cannot miss. The market is pretty crazy recently compared with late 2019 (before covid) and you can find better deals if you are patient. I don't know your plan next year, by the time this gets closed, you missed half of 2020 for the opportunity of booking at 12-months.

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[EnglishmanAbroad]

It depends on the negotiation. Some of my biennial purchases do not need me to reimburse. If you add the reimbursement and admin fees to this, it does not look like a deal that you cannot miss. The market is pretty crazy recently compared with late 2019 (before covid) and you can find better deals if you are patient. I don't know your plan next year, by the time this gets closed, you missed half of 2020 for the opportunity of booking at 12-months.

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Missed half of 2020? I think you missed it all This looks like an even year EOY so 2022 and nothing missed.