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Face masks and coronavirus: Asia may have been right and the rest of the world is coming around

Ken555

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I think many are not sure what is correct. The flip flop from the start made it confusing and once someone believes something it is often hard to change their mind.

No, I think those that are still confused don’t understand why scientists are rarely absolutely certain (especially without lengthy study) and they are using that as a rationale for not wearing a mask.


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Sugarcubesea

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I have used two varieties of masks, but the ones given below were far superior as far as ease of use and not fogging up my glasses. The company is a private clothing manufacture, but as the link says, for every five masks purchased, they donate two to the U of Michigan hospital. I have put in two orders (originally you could order just two at a time and one went to my wife and one to me, but they worked so well, we wanted others so we could keep them washed). In both cases, the order was put in, the masks were mailed within one or two days and we got the masks well within a week.

https://stateandliberty.com/collections/athletic-fit-dress-shirts/products/the-mask-2-pack
Roger --- Thanks so much, since I first posted this in April when there was a shortage of masks to today, I now have a 60 day supply of disposable masks and cloth masks for everyone in my family
 

bnoble

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Best evidence is that:

1: People who are infected but asymptomatic (and may *never* develop symptoms) can spread the virus
2: It is spread primarily via droplets.
3: Wearing a mask around others reduces your ability to infect them if you are (unknowingly) infected.
4: If enough of us do that, along with some other reasonable precautions, it appears we can keep R0 < 1 and keep ourselves and others healthy.

Some of that evidence is new. For example, I am not sure how recently we had good evidence for how common asymptomatic spread is.

In light of all of this, when I see someone not wearing a mask in a public indoor setting, or even one outdoors that is reasonably crowded, I assume they are either ill-informed or completely selfish. Either way, it's not a good look. It would be helpful if we had consistent messaging, but the federal government isn't doing that.
 

WinniWoman

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Well, you felt compelled to post her questionable comment on TUG, so it was an honest question. It sounds like she’s still not sure what is correct.


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No. She knows what is correct. She knows what she needs to do at work to keep herself and her patients safe and outside of work she knows she should wear a mask in enclosed places since social distancing is not always possible and ventilation can be an issue as well.

Same with me.

What she was stating is the mask wearing is not an all or nothing thing. That it’s effectiveness can be overblown in some situations and people should not become mask nazis.

She is also showing herself as an example that for some people just because they are exposed to the virus doesn’t mean they are all going to go down like dominos.

That’s all.
 
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Ken555

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No. She knows what is correct. She knows what she needs to do at work to keep herself and her patients safe and outside of work she knows she should wear a mask in enclosed places since social distancing is not always possible abd ventilations can be an issue as well.

Same with me.

What she was stating is the mask wearing is not an all or nothing thing. That it’s effectiveness can be overblown in some situations and people should not become mask nazis.

She is also showing herself as an example that for some people just because they are exposed to the virus doesn’t mean to they are going to go all down like dominos.

That’s all.

I hope so. Still, that assurance doesn’t match with her comment.

I didn't catch it with COVID positive people pulling off their mask, coughing in my face,grabbing me while I try to help them in a close space. The mask Gestapo needs to stop.

Sorry, I don’t mean to be supercritical but it’s obvious some people still don’t get it and we are, literally, discussing life and death or lengthy illness (I read yesterday another article about how someone was sick for months even after no longer testing positive).

And then where’s the rationale behind this ludicrous recommendation to not wear masks because someone didn’t have symptoms when a family member was sick? This is exactly the time to think this person is likely asymptomatic and absolutely should be wearing a mask, yet sends this message to friends. Did your medical professional friend comment and warn others on her thread? Why did you include this in your earlier post?

Comment from one of her friends: “All 3 of my kids were negative...with a father who had Covid...Sasha was snuggling with him the morning he started running fevers....I was sleeping in the same bed as him, sharing a bathroom....and based on my house cleaning skills...I should've had it! So I am not buying how contagious it is...sorry!”


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WinniWoman

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So my husband and I were away for the weekend at a timeshare resort. We wore masks in the lobby - though one time my husband forgot his in the car.

At the pool no masks- indoor or outdoor. Pool was kind of crowded with kids and big loud families. Me and another couple had to navigate between them all. Indoor pool was empty and I had lots of room to swim around. Used the bathrooms by the pool also.

Yes I laid on the lounge chairs. I noticed an employee going around spraying the chairs and tables at the pool. Not sure if someone was on my chair before I sat on it.

In the unit everything seemed very clean. We only used a glass and a mug and the tea kettle as we ate out everyday except for one McDonalds take out breakfast.

When we are out we did indoor dining as it was way too hot outside. We wore masks until we were seated.

At the Chinese restaurant we went to the host ( who I suspect is the owner) did not wear a mask. He served us. But another server was wearing a mask.

As for our outings we did not wear a mask. We were out in the White Mountains and a state park beach. We used the porta potty.

One time a lady asked if we wanted her to take our photo and I allowed her to use my phone for that. She did not have a mask on either. She was with a big family.

We did notice some people and their kids wearing masks outside in the natural areas because there were lots of people around, of course, on a Saturday. But we didn’t. It was so hot I don’t know how they could even breathe.

Kept hand sanitizer with us and used repeatedly. Getting gas had Hubby use a paper towel to hold the nozzle.
 
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WinniWoman

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I hope so. Still, that assurance doesn’t match with her comment.



Sorry, I don’t mean to be supercritical but it’s obvious some people still don’t get it and we are, literally, discussing life and death or lengthy illness (I read yesterday another article about how someone was sick for months even after no longer testing positive).

And then where’s the rationale behind this ludicrous recommendation to not wear masks because someone didn’t have symptoms when a family member was sick? This is exactly the time to think this person is likely asymptomatic and absolutely should be wearing a mask, yet sends this message to friends. Did your medical professional friend comment and warn others on her thread? Why did you include this in your earlier post?




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Ok. This is my last reply to you. No one recommended not wearing masks.

I think you are one of the mask nazis she speaks of. Lol!
 
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Ken555

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Ok. This is my last reply to you. No one recommend not wearing masks.

I think you are one of the mask nazis she speaks of. Lol!

I didn’t make a personal attack, why did you? I asked honest questions which you don’t want to answer.

By posting the friends comment, and not including the info if your well respected and knowledgeable medical professional friend responded or not, you leave us with the implied belief that this person does not believe in community spread and, directly, that wearing masks are not important.

You obviously wanted this discussion since you posted your friends comment and the comment on her thread.

There really is no reason to make this personal.


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PamMo

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I trust (at least hope) that Tuggers are way smarter than to take medical advice from random anecdotal stories. These stories might be posted just for interest, but I hope people read the scientific/medical guidance and err on the side of caution.

I don't understand the big deal about wearing a mask? I don't want to run a marathon in one, but it's become a habit I don't think about when I'm out and about around people.

It will be interesting to revisit these Covid threads in another year. I, for one, would much rather look silly than be sick and spread the disease to others. (Or dead.)
 

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I don’t think non-maskers avoid them bc of appearance / looking silly .


 

Panina

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I trust (at least hope) that Tuggers are way smarter than to take medical advice from random anecdotal stories. These stories might be posted just for interest, but I hope people read the scientific/medical guidance and err on the side of caution.

I don't understand the big deal about wearing a mask? I don't want to run a marathon in one, but it's become a habit I don't think about when I'm out and about around people.

It will be interesting to revisit these Covid threads in another year. I, for one, would much rather look silly than be sick and spread the disease to others. (Or dead.)
I hope I am wrong but some hard lessons might have to be learned for necessary precautions to be taken .

For example, my community, if someone gets the virus Badly and neighbors that socialized with the person get it too, Word here will spread quickly and many more will take precautions. By then lots of damage can be done.

I will say it again, I hate wearIng masks but always do, will continue until scientific logic convinces me otherwise.
 

PamMo

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Laura, I didn't mean that I'd look silly as in appearance. I've made dozens of masks, so I look really cool in mine! ;) I should have written that in hindsight I'd rather be thought of as being overly cautious.

It's so disheartening to read the article you linked to, that quoted a man saying he doesn't wear a mask because it makes you look weak. Another said being told to wear a mask is a political scare tactic.
 
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T_R_Oglodyte

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I don’t think non-maskers avoid them bc of appearance / looking silly .


I agree. As I've mentioned before, I see it as the 2020 equivalent to weed, long hair, tie-dye, and bell bottom jeans of 1970. People resisting social and governmental attempts to regulate and coerce conformity.

That also means that no amount of speeches of potential health and welfare benefits will change behavior - no more than did speeches about how personal appearance and the terrible effects of MJ do much to change the behavior.

Of course, huge irony in the flip of the political spectrum in terms of who is trying to regulate whom.
 

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@T_R_Oglodyte I can't believe you mention this irony - because there is another one: the group that will resist C19 vaccines are the flip of those who are normally anti-vaxxers.
 

"Roger"

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There was a study done once about trying to motivate people to do something to help protect the environment. Workers passed out about fifeteen hundred postcards. Some mentioned thinking about helping future generations. Some mentioned personal benefits such as you would save money yourselves. The only postcard that turned out to be effective said that your neighbors are doing it.
 

Luanne

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@T_R_Oglodyte I can't believe you mention this irony - because there is another one: the group that will resist C19 vaccines are the flip of those who are normally anti-vaxxers.
Interesting comment. What are you using to back that up?
 

Luanne

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Just what I see on social media and conversations I have with people.
I haven't seen this. I guess I only assumed it would be the anti-vaxxers that would be opposed to a COVID 19 vaccine. I can see people saying they don't want to have the vaccine immediately, but never? What reasons are these people giving?
 

Cornell

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I haven't seen this. I guess I only assumed it would be the anti-vaxxers that would be opposed to a COVID 19 vaccine. I can see people saying they don't want to have the vaccine immediately, but never? What reasons are these people giving?
It's the same reasons as anti-maskers. Distrust in government. And also they are not fearful personally of C19.
 

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Laura, I'm curious what the flip side of anti-vaxxers are? Are people who normally get vaccines saying they wouldn't get a Covid-19 vaccine?

Efficacy and safety will be key.
 

Luanne

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It's the same reasons as anti-maskers. Distrust in government. And also they are not fearful personally of C19.
Do these people usually get flu shots? I don't think I'll get flu but I still get the shot every year. Personally I think a little fear is a good thing.
 

Cornell

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Laura, I'm curious what the flip side of anti-vaxxers are? Are people who normally get vaccines saying they wouldn't get a Covid-19 vaccine?

Efficacy and safety will be key.
It's hard to articulate. Usually the people who are NOT anti vaxxers are law & order types. They want all kids in schools to have vaccines and get annoyed with the anti-vaxxers b/c they view vaccines as a community-effort to keep the vulnerable safe. Vaccines are part of the "rules" that everyone needs to follow. However, these SAME people are now saying "I am not putting some C19 vaccine into my kid - I don't trust this whole thing". These are the same people who are anti-mask and want to re-open society fully.

Regarding flu shots -- I don't think that type of vaccine is relevant in this discussion b/c it's "optional". I'm referring to vaccines such as DTap, MMR, etc that are school requirements.
 

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@Brett -- Yet again, you have to turn this into a blatant political discussion, now most likely shutting down a thread which has been a nice back and forth discussion with TUG members trying to learn from each other's POVs.

From The NY Times article you posted (from the "Arts" section "Critics Notebook"):

No, Trump does not wear a mask. But as protesters have assembled in front of the White House in recent days, he has descended into an underground bunker and turned out the lights. He has tweeted about the Secret Service protecting him from the American people with “the most vicious dogs, most ominous weapons, I have ever seen.” The police have buzzed D.C. demonstrators with helicopters and fired on them with rubber bullets. The notion that these masked protesters could represent cowardice, and Trump strength, is absurd. “We are here to show that regardless of what is happening to our health we refuse to run,” one protester told The Cut. “We refuse to live in fear.”
 
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