• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $14,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $14 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

EU bans American travelers effective July 1st

Ken555

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
10,566
Reaction score
1,783
Points
498
Location
Los Angeles
Resorts Owned
Westin Kierland
Sheraton Desert Oasis
Actually, I do know because I take my time when shopping and make the effort to be aware of my surroundings and avoid people. I make a list and know where the products I need are located before I enter a store because I shop stores I am familiar with. It isn't that hard to avoid people if you choose the proper time and don't live in such a crowded area.
The point here is NOT to suggest that masks are not important (or fail to help) it is that staying (sheltering) at home is a superior alternative to avoiding exposure. Avoid crowds, stay home, shop during slow periods - these pieces of advice have been too quickly discarded in favor of placing too much dependance on the protection level offered by a mask.

Stay home - that has the largest impact. That message has been lost.
I’m not sure what your goal was to announce on a public forum that you are not wearing a mask. Your opinion won’t change based on our comments, and you know not wearing a mask is wrong (after all, you’ve admitted as much). Nevertheless, you are comfortable rationalizing the benefit of wearing a mask by changing your behavior and plans when in public spaces. I really don’t know why you announced this publicly...it’s as if you want us to agree that some people should be exempted from wearing a mask in certain situations.

I could do the same. I know my local stores quite well and could be in and out very quickly, especially at off hours. But I’m not that selfish...if I go out, I’m wearing a mask. Not just because it’s mandatory, but because it’s the right thing to do and sends the right message to others.

I’m fairly sure we will learn that the rapid and continual increase of C19 cases will be due in part to those not wearing a mask. I am absolutely certain I’m not asymptomatic, yet I will always wear a mask when going out. Why can’t you?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

bbodb1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
3,082
Reaction score
2,654
Points
298
Location
High radiation belt of the Northern Hemisphere
Resorts Owned
RCI Weeks: LaCosta Beach Club, RCI Points: Oakmont Resort, Vacation Village at Parkway. Wyndham: CWA and La Belle Maison, and WorldMark.
I’m not sure what your goal was to announce on a public forum that you are not wearing a mask.
...
Nevertheless, you are comfortable rationalizing the benefit of wearing a mask by changing your behavior and plans when in public spaces. I really don’t know why you announced this publicly...it’s as if you want us to agree that some people should be exempted from wearing a mask in certain situations.

I could do the same. I know my local stores quite well and could be in and out very quickly, especially at off hours. But I’m not that selfish...if I go out, I’m wearing a mask. Not just because it’s mandatory, but because it’s the right thing to do and sends the right message to others.
...
As I said previously, Stay home - that has the largest impact. That message has been lost.
The wearing of masks has played a part in people letting down their guard with respect to returning toward what used to be normal routines. I am not suggesting the wearing of masks is without some health benefits - but increasing the number of trips out of the house because of confidence and trust in a mask creates more risk as opposed to staying home. We still are not anywhere near the point of resuming normal routines and the best (safest) practice is still to Stay Home.

Your opinion won’t change based on our comments, and you know not wearing a mask is wrong (after all, you’ve admitted as much).
Please show me where I said this - now I have discussed that I will follow an establishment's rules on the matter because it is their right as a business to establish rules to be a customer. More specifically, I choose to dine on the outdoor patio (mask free) at McAlister's since I did not want to enter the location and they were fine with this arrangement. Perhaps you interpreted this in some other way, but just to be clear, I have no problem following the posted rules of a business or an establishment. If that means a mask is required for entry, then I will either patronize the business outside (in the fresh air, with the benefit of the U.V. rays from the sun) or take my business elsewhere. I have not and will not complain to a business about their policies in this area - again, this is their prerogative. But I am not comfortable placing myself in an environment where masks are required.

I’m fairly sure we will learn that the rapid and continual increase of C19 cases will be due in part to those not wearing a mask. I am absolutely certain I’m not asymptomatic, yet I will always wear a mask when going out. Why can’t you?
To which, my reply is, I have stayed home to the greatest possible degree.
Why can't you? How much better off would we be if all unnecessary trips were avoided?
 

Ken555

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
10,566
Reaction score
1,783
Points
498
Location
Los Angeles
Resorts Owned
Westin Kierland
Sheraton Desert Oasis
As I said previously, Stay home - that has the largest impact. That message has been lost.
Yes, staying home is the best advice. I don't think that message has been lost at all, I just think many are ignoring it. It's good to repeat the advice.

The wearing of masks has played a part in people letting down their guard with respect to returning toward what used to be normal routines. I am not suggesting the wearing of masks is without some health benefits - but increasing the number of trips out of the house because of confidence and trust in a mask creates more risk as opposed to staying home. We still are not anywhere near the point of resuming normal routines and the best (safest) practice is still to Stay Home.
I agree that some believe that a mask protects them when out and so will leave their home more frequently than they would otherwise, even though *every* mask ad, recommendations from local and federal governments, and other sources are very clear that it does not. A mask protects *others* and only works when everyone close to you wears them while maintaining social distance. However, new evidence (see Dr Blix's quote below) points to a potential benefit for the wearer, as well.

Please show me where I said this - now I have discussed that I will follow an establishment's rules on the matter because it is their right as a business to establish rules to be a customer. More specifically, I choose to dine on the outdoor patio (mask free) at McAlister's since I did not want to enter the location and they were fine with this arrangement. Perhaps you interpreted this in some other way, but just to be clear, I have no problem following the posted rules of a business or an establishment. If that means a mask is required for entry, then I will either patronize the business outside (in the fresh air, with the benefit of the U.V. rays from the sun) or take my business elsewhere. I have not and will not complain to a business about their policies in this area - again, this is their prerogative.
My apologies. I just reread a few of your earlier posts and you were very clear. In this five minute review of your posts, I did find these questionable comments...

Do I feel like I am placing others at risk? No, because as noted above, I am maintaining extra social distance everywhere possible and practical.
If others choose to encroach upon my space, they are assuming the risk.
[...]I see the mask and associate its presence with disease, filth and weakness. We 'mask up' when we don't want (or can't stand) a smell, need to avoid fumes or other things that should not be inhaled. We 'mask up' to protect our 'weak' self from something external so powerful or overwhelming. I see masks as more a portent of suffering or even death.
I now see that your aversion to masks is more than I had thought.

I did not - and do not - wear a mask. To be clear, I am not saying my decision is right or wrong but given the circumstances in our area, applying the standard noted by Dr. Blix above with respect to wearing a mask in the places I regularly visit, at the time(s) regularly visited and with the usual population density in these establishments during these visits does not seem to be a necessary act because a minimum social distance -and more- can be maintained at all times.
This statement has been debunked in that social distance is not a satisfactory replacement for wearing a mask. In fact, both are still essential when near others, and it is obviously difficult to adhere to this in many venues (supermarkets, etc). The CDC now "recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings when around people outside of their household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain." Of course, these are just minimum recommendations, as it is better and advisable to have more than six feet separation from others while still wearing a mask. When coughing, sneezing or even speaking loudly you are able to spread viruses more than six feet from you.

Also, Dr Blix has changed her recommendation since May. From yesterday:

While she spoke, Birx reiterated Abbott's plea to the public to wear masks, saying that new research has found wearing a mask not only protects those around you, but partially protects yourself as well.

"I'm really appealing to every Texan to wear a mask," she said.
Here's a one minute video interview from just two days ago with Dr Blix re the importance of wearing masks. This is also a great example of how scientific research may change recommendations.


But I am not comfortable placing myself in an environment where masks are required.
Yes, it seems you have personal reason(s) to have an aversion to masks. Sadly, you may find in the near future that they are mandatory in many places, not just in the USA. I would suggest you consider what would make you more comfortable wearing a mask (perhaps a different design? more comfortable mask?). Perhaps even the new recommendation by Dr Blix might influence your opinion?

Of course, the best advice is your own! Stay home.

To which, my reply is, I have stayed home to the greatest possible degree.
Excellent.

Why can't you? How much better off would we be if all unnecessary trips were avoided?
Now you've made an incorrect assumption, though I haven't posted much about my own situation in a while. My last in-person meeting and visit to a restaurant was on March 9. Since then I have left my home five (5) times. I have only twice entered a commercial building (medical requirements; I went for meds and a vaccine and then a visit for regular blood tests and a C19 antibody test (= negative)). I have all grocery items delivered via Instacart, Shipt, and Imperfect Foods. Included in the five excursions I visit a local farm which has excellent produce (and this time of year fabulous California strawberries!), and since it's an outdoor venue with very few people (the most I've seen at one time is ~6) I'm not worried...and every single person (including employees) are wearing a mask (of course, it's mandatory in California). I intend to go out today to pickup medicine (which erroneously wasn't delivered via mail and I need today) though there's a possibility the local independent pharmacy I'm using can deliver; if I go out today I will stop at the farm and get more produce.

So, I am staying home. I'm staying home much more than most people I know. I'm not doing *any* unnecessary trips. I am following the advice in the strictest possible way I can. I've canceled every trip I had scheduled since March and will not be traveling anywhere until next year at the earliest, not even within driving distance (unless circumstances change sufficiently to permit it). And, at this point, with such abysmal adherence to the safety recommendations and with our national numbers increasing I suspect I won't be able to travel until after we have a vaccine. While I am not surprised, I am extremely disappointed with my fellow Americans.
 

CanuckTravlr

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
1,037
Reaction score
1,087
Points
224
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Resorts Owned
HGVC Ocean 22
Actually, I do know because I take my time when shopping and make the effort to be aware of my surroundings and avoid people. I make a list and know where the products I need are located before I enter a store because I shop stores I am familiar with. It isn't that hard to avoid people if you choose the proper time and don't live in such a crowded area.
The point here is NOT to suggest that masks are not important (or fail to help) it is that staying (sheltering) at home is a superior alternative to avoiding exposure. Avoid crowds, stay home, shop during slow periods - these pieces of advice have been too quickly discarded in favor of placing too much dependance on the protection level offered by a mask.

Stay home - that has the largest impact. That message has been lost.
Sorry, still just excuses, IMO. Why do you have such a problem with doing such a simple thing as wearing a mask? Limiting your social contacts ("bubble") and avoiding unnecessary trips outside your home are the most important parts, but you are missing the other part of the equation. Despite the fact it has worked everywhere else in the world, the US for some reason doesn't seem to want to get the message that when outside your home you need to not only exercise proper physical distancing, but also wear a mask! Why do you think your numbers continue to rise?

For those of us looking in from outside of the USA, we just shake our heads at the inability of one of the most advanced nations on earth to get their act together on a consistent, national basis. Instead, everyone seems to want to find umpteen reasons under the sun for not doing this simple act. Even if you are in a more rural area, there are still people around. Wearing a mask is not as much about you not getting the disease, it is more about you not giving it unwittingly to someone else, particularly in an enclosed, indoor area. It's also about setting an example for others, so they don't have an excuse to not wear one, but aren't being as careful as you. :shrug: :wall:
 
Last edited:
Top