• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $16,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $16 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Enroll an external week for $1,495?

Fasttr

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
4,646
Reaction score
1,521
Points
298
Location
Connecticut
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Ocean
MVC Trust Points
True. But I do the same thing with cash. I can do an awful lot of days here and there before I burn through $30k.
How do you expect the VAC stock price to keep rising with an attitude like that. ;-)
 

Steve Fatula

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
2,877
Reaction score
1,993
Points
249
Location
Calera, OK
Resorts Owned
Marriott Desert Springs Villas II 2BR
Playa Andaluza Silver Seafront 2BR
Destinations Points
True. But I do the same thing with cash. I can do an awful lot of days here and there before I burn through $30k.
Please reserve 2 bedroom Lake Tahoe Ritz with cash in say Feb. See what it costs you compared to points. Your 30k won't last long! A few years of that and you've paid for it.

But sure, if someone wants to charge you 30k (where did that number come from?) for a week to enroll, I would pass. Just not sure what you are speaking of. Previously you mentioned 20k, which is still a lot. I was speaking to the guy I replied to when he said he'd never use points for a week.

The answers for timeshare "value" are rarely simple. It all depends where, how, when, etc.
 
Last edited:

rthib

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
1,382
Reaction score
239
Points
273
Location
DFW, TX
But sure, if someone wants to charge you 30k (where did that number come from?) for a week to enroll, I would pass. Just not sure what you are speaking of. Previously you mentioned 20k, which is still a lot. I was speaking to the guy I replied to when he said he'd never use points for a week.

The answers for timeshare "value" are rarely simple. It all depends where, how, when, etc.
3000 points to enroll. Prices around $9-10, so easy math makes it 30K
 

Steve Fatula

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
2,877
Reaction score
1,993
Points
249
Location
Calera, OK
Resorts Owned
Marriott Desert Springs Villas II 2BR
Playa Andaluza Silver Seafront 2BR
Destinations Points
3000 points to enroll. Prices around $9-10, so easy math makes it 30K
Except, I was now speaking to the guy I replied to right? So, he said "After lots of this and that, deals, permutations, etc., the total cost for me to enroll was going to be about $20,000.". I was merely asking HIM why he said 30k when previously he said 20k. Okay?
 

csodjd

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
1,456
Points
224
Location
So. California
Resorts Owned
Hilton Hawaiian Village - Lagoon Tower
Marriott Maui Ocean Club
Except, I was now speaking to the guy I replied to right? So, he said "After lots of this and that, deals, permutations, etc., the total cost for me to enroll was going to be about $20,000.". I was merely asking HIM why he said 30k when previously he said 20k. Okay?
It was factoring in the perks... free nights, some "bonus points," etc. I don't remember the exact amount, it was pre-covid, but I do recall the pricing was actually quite good on a dollars per point basis (I recall about $7) for what they typically offer or will bargain to when we included that they were going to cover my room (I was paying cash for a couple nights) and things like that.
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
4,620
Reaction score
1,901
Points
398
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Please reserve 2 bedroom Lake Tahoe Ritz with cash in say Feb. See what it costs you compared to points. Your 30k won't last long! A few years of that and you've paid for it.

But sure, if someone wants to charge you 30k (where did that number come from?) for a week to enroll, I would pass. Just not sure what you are speaking of. Previously you mentioned 20k, which is still a lot. I was speaking to the guy I replied to when he said he'd never use points for a week.

The answers for timeshare "value" are rarely simple. It all depends where, how, when, etc.
So you put it out there. What does it (and what is it, week, a few week days, etc?) cost in points? And how easy to book? I've heard next to impossible. What would it cost in cash?
 

Steve Fatula

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2017
Messages
2,877
Reaction score
1,993
Points
249
Location
Calera, OK
Resorts Owned
Marriott Desert Springs Villas II 2BR
Playa Andaluza Silver Seafront 2BR
Destinations Points
So you put it out there. What does it (and what is it, week, a few week days, etc?) cost in points? And how easy to book? I've heard next to impossible. What would it cost in cash?
I think you are smart enough to figure it out. We have another member here who I know has done so as well, so, not impossible. Maybe they will respond, me, heading out on a trip. But to clarify, I was speaking of a week. The Ritz feature is the most money saving (or luxury spending saving) portion of points ownership. Obviously, you can't II into it.

But I did get Ritz St. Thomas for next year so that is fresh on my mind. Rental on Marriott.com was north of $3,500/night for a 2BR, April. 5100 points for the week in same 2BR. Pretty nice to be able to affordably stay there.
 
Last edited:

frank808

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
1,066
Points
398
Location
Marriott Ko Olina Beach Club
Resorts Owned
Disney Vacation Club (Aulani,SSR,VGC,VGF) Hilton Grand Vacation Club(Bay Club, Kohala Suites, The District DC) Marriott Vacation Club (Grand Residence, Grand Chateau, Grand Vista, Harbour Lake, Willow Ridge, Aruba Surf Club, AP & DC points)
I think you are smart enough to figure it out. We have another member here who I know has done so as well, so, not impossible. Maybe they will respond, me, heading out on a trip. But to clarify, I was speaking of a week. The Ritz feature is the most money saving (or luxury spending saving) portion of points ownership. Obviously, you can't II into it.

But I did get Ritz St. Thomas for next year so that is fresh on my mind. Rental on Marriott.com was north of $3,500/night for a 2BR, April. 5100 points for the week in same 2BR. Pretty nice to be able to affordably stay there.
So for the price of one night retail in maintenance fees, you get to stay a whole week in same room. Sounds like a win to me.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

csalter2

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,854
Reaction score
469
Points
293
Location
Orange County, California
Resorts Owned
Marriott Ko Olina
Marriott Aruba Surf Club
Marriott Ocean Pointe
Diamond Resorts Gold
So you put it out there. What does it (and what is it, week, a few week days, etc?) cost in points? And how easy to book? I've heard next to impossible. What would it cost in cash?
I know from your past posts that you don’t feel there is value in laying out cash except resale for timeshares. I get it. However, it’s hard to ALWAYS put a dollar sign of savings for EVERYONE, because as Steve Fatula says there are a lot of variables. First of all, when one travels with five or six people in your family and you don’t have to book multiple units at hotels and you can fly for $200 - $250 per person less by flying on Tuesdays and Wednesdays instead of the weekends, that’s a tremendous savings for someone who travels to Hawaii almost annually. I’ve recouped almost half my upfront costs in renting some of my incentives and the studio from time to time. When I’m splitting my weeks and getting two weeks for one unit, I’m coming out ahead, especially if I can get a two or even a three bedroom unit for one of my studios, which I have done. ARBNB can’t beat that. I save on food and drinks with the critters I have in my brood constantly being hungry and thirsty.

I just mentioned some plain money savings that I regularly get. I have also owned most of my timeshares for 25 years. I’ve worn them out traveling with my kids and now grandkids too. Value will vary from person to person. Now I own weeks with Marriott and points that can elect into points so I get a better deal than pure points owners. Nevertheless, I can honestly say, I get great value. I bought two of my weeks from Marriott with an Aruba and Ocean Pointe combo. That’s been a great purchase for me. I’ve been recouping some of my upfront cost to easily be within resale cost for a resale week even with the pandemic. I’m getting ready to retire in June, and I recall a comment from you when I was considering my purchase stating how would I use all those discounted points or something to that effect. I’ve got to say that the mileage I’m going to get and have gotten so far has been tremendous.

^There are many people on this site that know a lot more than me about timesharing. I know value for each of us can be different. I will say that I know the longer that you have your timeshare AND MAXIMIZE USE ITS USE, the better value you can get. Can someone rent and save money? Absolutely! Can you buy resale and save on upfront costs? Absolutely! However, I CHOSE to buy two weeks directly from Marriott to have total flexibility. The Presidential level allows me that 13 month advantage that I have come to realize its value. I booked a two bedroom oceanFRONT unit in Maui in the Napili Towers for the end of May. It’ll be a great way to begin my post pandemic far away travel. Now I have an interval request in as well, but I may use that for another property now since I’ve bagged a very nice unit. I find VALUE in this.
Just my take. Value can be money but value can vary depending on the person and what is important to them.
 

csodjd

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
1,456
Points
224
Location
So. California
Resorts Owned
Hilton Hawaiian Village - Lagoon Tower
Marriott Maui Ocean Club
I know from your past posts that you don’t feel there is value in laying out cash except resale for timeshares. I get it. However, it’s hard to ALWAYS put a dollar sign of savings for EVERYONE, because as Steve Fatula says there are a lot of variables. First of all, when one travels with five or six people in your family and you don’t have to book multiple units at hotels and you can fly for $200 - $250 per person less by flying on Tuesdays and Wednesdays instead of the weekends, that’s a tremendous savings for someone who travels to Hawaii almost annually. I’ve recouped almost half my upfront costs in renting some of my incentives and the studio from time to time. When I’m splitting my weeks and getting two weeks for one unit, I’m coming out ahead, especially if I can get a two or even a three bedroom unit for one of my studios, which I have done. ARBNB can’t beat that. I save on food and drinks with the critters I have in my brood constantly being hungry and thirsty.

I just mentioned some plain money savings that I regularly get. I have also owned most of my timeshares for 25 years. I’ve worn them out traveling with my kids and now grandkids too. Value will vary from person to person. Now I own weeks with Marriott and points that can elect into points so I get a better deal than pure points owners. Nevertheless, I can honestly say, I get great value. I bought two of my weeks from Marriott with an Aruba and Ocean Pointe combo. That’s been a great purchase for me. I’ve been recouping some of my upfront cost to easily be within resale cost for a resale week even with the pandemic. I’m getting ready to retire in June, and I recall a comment from you when I was considering my purchase stating how would I use all those discounted points or something to that effect. I’ve got to say that the mileage I’m going to get and have gotten so far has been tremendous.

^There are many people on this site that know a lot more than me about timesharing. I know value for each of us can be different. I will say that I know the longer that you have your timeshare AND MAXIMIZE USE ITS USE, the better value you can get. Can someone rent and save money? Absolutely! Can you buy resale and save on upfront costs? Absolutely! However, I CHOSE to buy two weeks directly from Marriott to have total flexibility. The Presidential level allows me that 13 month advantage that I have come to realize its value. I booked a two bedroom oceanFRONT unit in Maui in the Napili Towers for the end of May. It’ll be a great way to begin my post pandemic far away travel. Now I have an interval request in as well, but I may use that for another property now since I’ve bagged a very nice unit. I find VALUE in this.
Just my take. Value can be money but value can vary depending on the person and what is important to them.
All true. Same time… if you take that about $30,000 to enroll a week and manage it well in the market you can generate about $2500 - $3500 in cash annually and use that to cash-buy some of those same benefits without touching the principal. My experience is that MOST TS owners are not as “in to it” as some here on TUG, where you find a narrow sub-group of owners that have taken the time and effort to learn how to squeeze all the juice (value) out of their ownership. The effort one wants to plans to put in to take advantage of what they own is part of the calculus In deciding if there is value in the cost of enrolling. I’ve not yet been unable to reserve my 2BR oceanFRONT at the Maui Marriott for the week I wanted. So I don’t perceive the 13-month benefits. I don’t have 5-6 people traveling, so the airfare benefits are less.

I think the key is for each owners to do their homework and assess the value or need or benefits for their particular situation. The sellers will tell you that it’s great value for everyone, all the time. It’s not. It may be for some. Not for others. For ME, it came down to being able to travel on a less costly day and maybe have points to add on a few days or go for fewer days. That wasn’t enough. If I want to go to a different resort I’ll just rent my MOC for about $5k and use the cash to rent someone else’s at that resort.
 

DanCali

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,680
Reaction score
81
Points
283
Resorts Owned
Vistana: HRA, WKV; Marriott: NCV
All true. Same time… if you take that about $30,000 to enroll a week and manage it well in the market you can generate about $2500 - $3500 in cash annually and use that to cash-buy some of those same benefits without touching the principal.
This touches on "opportunity cost" but underemphasizes the capital loss that comes with a developer purchase.

To see what I mean consider this:

Say you buy a condo for $600,000 in cash and get $2500 rent a month ($30,000) a year. So you get 5% return on your investment per year. Is it a bad investment because you can get 5%-10% by otherwise investing in stocks, bonds, or mutual funds? If that was the only consideration then nobody would ever invest in real estate. The condo may be a way to diversify your investment portfolio and, more importantly, your actual return may end up more than 5% a year (which is like a "dividend" here) because the condo may appreciate over time (which would be the "capital gain" part of your return). The total return is the dividend (annual rent) + capital gain (appreciation).

The problem with developer purchases (weeks or points) is that the actual resale value is 80%-90% less then your actual purchase price. You can spend $30,000 on points that are worth $5000 if you try to sell them two weeks later. So the benefit that you may derive annually from the points (the "dividend") is very hard to justify given that there will always be a huge capital loss.

So you can say that if you spend $30,000 on points you can make otherwise $2500 in the market annually so "why bother" but it misses the capital loss part. Like the condo rent, the points presumably provide a "dividend" annually in excess of maintenance fee costs (maybe savings over hotel, rent above maintenance cost, flight savings etc). But it's a very different calculation if those points you bought for $30,000 are worth $40,000, $30,000 or $3000 if you try to sell them in 10 years. The "opportunity cost" makes the comparison vis-a-vis the annual dividend but the most important part of the statement quoted above is "without touching the principal". If you invest conservatively in stocks or bonds for 10+ years your principal is more than likely to stay intact. When you buy from the developer the "principal" gets decimated once your right to rescind is gone.
 
Last edited:

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,812
Reaction score
1,663
Points
448
This touches on "opportunity cost" but underemphasizes the capital loss that comes with a developer purchase.

To see what I mean consider this:

Say you buy a condo for $600,000 in cash and get $2500 rent a month ($30,000) a year. So you get 5% return on your investment per year. Is it a bad investment because you can get 5%-10% by otherwise investing in stocks, bonds, or mutual funds? If that was the only consideration then nobody would ever invest in real estate. The condo may be a way to diversify your investment portfolio and, more importantly, your actual return may end up more than 5% a year (which is like a "dividend" here) because the condo may appreciate over time (which would be the "capital gain" part of your return). The total return is the dividend (annual rent) + capital gain (appreciation).

The problem with developer purchases (weeks or points) is that the actual resale value is 80%-90% less then your actual purchase price. You can spend $30,000 on points that are worth $5000 if you try to sell them two weeks later. So the benefit that you may derive annually from the points (the "dividend") is very hard to justify given that there will always be a huge capital loss.

So you can say that if you spend $30,000 on points you can make otherwise $2500 in the market annually so "why bother" but it misses the capital loss part. Like the condo rent, the points presumably provide a "dividend" annually in excess of maintenance fee costs (maybe savings over hotel, rent above maintenance cost, flight savings etc). But it's a very different calculation if those points you bought for $30,000 are worth $40,000, $30,000 or $3000 if you try to sell them in 10 years. The "opportunity cost" makes the comparison vis-a-vis the annual dividend but the most important part of the statement quoted above is "without touching the principal". If you invest conservatively in stocks or bonds for 10+ years your principal is more then likely to stay intact. When you buy from the developer the "principal" gets decimated once your right to rescind is gone.
The value of any timeshare is in the usage. The benefits vary dramatically from one person to another. And even for those where timeshares work well, the best choice can vary. For example and only looking at those where timeshares actually work well and make sense with MVC, some mostly just exchange, some mostly use points and some mostly use their weeks. I'd say most of us that make it work well use some combination. There is an obligate financial cost and commitment that might be reasonable for one and not for another. And there are potential benefits and costs beyond the $$$ issue but whatever course each of us decide it has to at least make sense $$$ wise to be a reasonable choice. As a rule I'd say hope for the best and plan for the worst and if it still makes sense with timeshares, it's likely a good choice for that person. What I often see with timeshares is that people try to justify them and concoct a situation where it makes sense but only if everything works as hoped and planned which is never completely the case. For example if you buy a MVC trader to trade to the big 3 in HHI week 25-29 every year, bad choice because it'll likely not happen at all much less routinely and one can can come up with other situations for each and every option.
 

Fasttr

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
4,646
Reaction score
1,521
Points
298
Location
Connecticut
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Ocean
MVC Trust Points
The value of any timeshare is in the usage.
So true. I always tell non-TSers who ask about the financial side of things…. Who knows if it makes sense or not financially, but what it does do is “force” you to take great vacations every year, in great villas, to nice places, because you have “prepaid for it” (with your MF’s and upfront costs to purchase) which limits your desire to put off the nice vacations for this reason or that. The family memories are priceless.

We use it, and enjoy it.

There is also some psychological “win” when you check out and don’t have to pay room fees and taxes. Even though you know you already paid your MFs at the beginning of the year, the “free” checkout price still feels good each time.
 

frank808

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
1,066
Points
398
Location
Marriott Ko Olina Beach Club
Resorts Owned
Disney Vacation Club (Aulani,SSR,VGC,VGF) Hilton Grand Vacation Club(Bay Club, Kohala Suites, The District DC) Marriott Vacation Club (Grand Residence, Grand Chateau, Grand Vista, Harbour Lake, Willow Ridge, Aruba Surf Club, AP & DC points)
As a real estate investor, I put anywhere from 25% to 50% on the purchase of a rental property. That way I can turn a 600k purchase into multiple rental properties. So that 600k of capital can be turned into 120k of rental income a year. While not 20% ROI after mortgage, management fees, reserve etc. Hopefully it will get net you 10%-14% ROI.

Love real estate for tax advantages. Best part is that rent usually rises with inflation. So today's rent will buy the same amount in a decade because rent rises with inflation most of the time.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
4,620
Reaction score
1,901
Points
398
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
I know from your past posts that you don’t feel there is value in laying out cash except resale for timeshares. I get it. However, it’s hard to ALWAYS put a dollar sign of savings for EVERYONE, because as Steve Fatula says there are a lot of variables. First of all, when one travels with five or six people in your family and you don’t have to book multiple units at hotels and you can fly for $200 - $250 per person less by flying on Tuesdays and Wednesdays instead of the weekends, that’s a tremendous savings for someone who travels to Hawaii almost annually. I’ve recouped almost half my upfront costs in renting some of my incentives and the studio from time to time. When I’m splitting my weeks and getting two weeks for one unit, I’m coming out ahead, especially if I can get a two or even a three bedroom unit for one of my studios, which I have done. ARBNB can’t beat that. I save on food and drinks with the critters I have in my brood constantly being hungry and thirsty.

I just mentioned some plain money savings that I regularly get. I have also owned most of my timeshares for 25 years. I’ve worn them out traveling with my kids and now grandkids too. Value will vary from person to person. Now I own weeks with Marriott and points that can elect into points so I get a better deal than pure points owners. Nevertheless, I can honestly say, I get great value. I bought two of my weeks from Marriott with an Aruba and Ocean Pointe combo. That’s been a great purchase for me. I’ve been recouping some of my upfront cost to easily be within resale cost for a resale week even with the pandemic. I’m getting ready to retire in June, and I recall a comment from you when I was considering my purchase stating how would I use all those discounted points or something to that effect. I’ve got to say that the mileage I’m going to get and have gotten so far has been tremendous.

^There are many people on this site that know a lot more than me about timesharing. I know value for each of us can be different. I will say that I know the longer that you have your timeshare AND MAXIMIZE USE ITS USE, the better value you can get. Can someone rent and save money? Absolutely! Can you buy resale and save on upfront costs? Absolutely! However, I CHOSE to buy two weeks directly from Marriott to have total flexibility. The Presidential level allows me that 13 month advantage that I have come to realize its value. I booked a two bedroom oceanFRONT unit in Maui in the Napili Towers for the end of May. It’ll be a great way to begin my post pandemic far away travel. Now I have an interval request in as well, but I may use that for another property now since I’ve bagged a very nice unit. I find VALUE in this.
Just my take. Value can be money but value can vary depending on the person and what is important to them.
You've misread my posts, I haven't defined value for anyone else. What I have consistently said is that people need to know what the true cost is versus getting the exact same through other methods (cash reservation, direct rental, weeks, etc.), and their cost. People often talk about the benefits (flexibility, great unicorn deals like Ritz, specialty weeks etc.), while not discussing the actual cost.

If someone wants a Porsche, I'm not telling them that a better value for them is a Subaru. I'm just saying that you should know what that Porsche is costing you, or whether you can get the exact same Porsche for much less. It may or may not be important to them how much the Subaru costs if they are dead set on the Porsche, but others may want to know the cost of the Subaru before they decide which is a better value for them.

If one wants to define "value" for themselves without knowing the true cost, or the cost they can get the same thing through other means, then that's great for them. If I can buy the exact same model Porsche cheaper, why would I want to pay more? There may be reasons, but you have to start with the basic cost to determine if those reasons are worth it to you. If you don't care about spending more than you have to, then this is all meaningless. I don't think most tuggers fall into this camp.
 

csodjd

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
1,456
Points
224
Location
So. California
Resorts Owned
Hilton Hawaiian Village - Lagoon Tower
Marriott Maui Ocean Club
This touches on "opportunity cost" but underemphasizes the capital loss that comes with a developer purchase.

To see what I mean consider this:

Say you buy a condo for $600,000 in cash and get $2500 rent a month ($30,000) a year. So you get 5% return on your investment per year. Is it a bad investment because you can get 5%-10% by otherwise investing in stocks, bonds, or mutual funds? If that was the only consideration then nobody would ever invest in real estate. The condo may be a way to diversify your investment portfolio and, more importantly, your actual return may end up more than 5% a year (which is like a "dividend" here) because the condo may appreciate over time (which would be the "capital gain" part of your return). The total return is the dividend (annual rent) + capital gain (appreciation).

The problem with developer purchases (weeks or points) is that the actual resale value is 80%-90% less then your actual purchase price. You can spend $30,000 on points that are worth $5000 if you try to sell them two weeks later. So the benefit that you may derive annually from the points (the "dividend") is very hard to justify given that there will always be a huge capital loss.

So you can say that if you spend $30,000 on points you can make otherwise $2500 in the market annually so "why bother" but it misses the capital loss part. Like the condo rent, the points presumably provide a "dividend" annually in excess of maintenance fee costs (maybe savings over hotel, rent above maintenance cost, flight savings etc). But it's a very different calculation if those points you bought for $30,000 are worth $40,000, $30,000 or $3000 if you try to sell them in 10 years. The "opportunity cost" makes the comparison vis-a-vis the annual dividend but the most important part of the statement quoted above is "without touching the principal". If you invest conservatively in stocks or bonds for 10+ years your principal is more than likely to stay intact. When you buy from the developer the "principal" gets decimated once your right to rescind is gone.
While I don't disagree with what you say and your point, you are assigning no value to the fact that you are USING and ENJOYING that TS unit, whereas your hypothetical condo is just a money investment. There is certainly value -- at least rental value -- in your usage of the TS unit. That said, you are certainly correct that the $30,000 in points loses resale value quickly. But you must add back into that the usage value.
 

VacationForever

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
11,950
Reaction score
5,975
Points
748
Location
Somewhere Out There
Reminds me of a salesguy here this week. He calculated that if I rented the unit that he was trying to sell me as part of a bundle, it would be 10 years to get back the purchase price. I said the MF also needs to be in the equation, which would then get to 20 years. No bueno.
 

DanCali

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,680
Reaction score
81
Points
283
Resorts Owned
Vistana: HRA, WKV; Marriott: NCV
While I don't disagree with what you say and your point, you are assigning no value to the fact that you are USING and ENJOYING that TS unit, whereas your hypothetical condo is just a money investment. There is certainly value -- at least rental value -- in your usage of the TS unit. That said, you are certainly correct that the $30,000 in points loses resale value quickly. But you must add back into that the usage value.
I did not ignore the point you raised. I did say "Like the condo rent, the points presumably provide a "dividend" annually in excess of maintenance fee costs."

You don't have to own the timeshare to "enjoy" it- you can, at least in most cases, rent what you want to use from RedWeek, right? So the value is not in the enjoyment itself but in the annual savings that (should) come with ownership. If the rental value is $2600 and maintenance fees are $1300, you derive a benefit of $1300 annually --- If you stay in it you save $1300 vs the cost of rent, and if you rent it out you make a $1300 profit over maintenance fees.

But then you get back to the upfront cost. If you pay $30,000 to make $1300/year that's a 4.3% annual return (wouldn't be bad as an investment) but only if that $30,000 you paid doesn't depreciate. If it depreciates by 80%-90% in the form of a capital loss it will take you more than a couple of decades just to get back to break even.

All that math the salespeople do for you (at least when they sold weeks) where they show you the nightly rate of $700/night on marriott.com and compare with maintenance fees of $1500 and calculate the "great savings" for you sounds awesome. But they one thing they never tell you is that the deeded week they sold you depreciated by 80% the moment you bought it.
 

csodjd

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
1,751
Reaction score
1,456
Points
224
Location
So. California
Resorts Owned
Hilton Hawaiian Village - Lagoon Tower
Marriott Maui Ocean Club
All that math the salespeople do for you (at least when they sold weeks) where they show you the nightly rate of $700/night on marriott.com and compare with maintenance fees of $1500 and calculate the "great savings" for you sounds awesome. But they one thing they never tell you is that the deeded week they sold you depreciated by 80% the moment you bought it.
Hence all my purchases are made from the secondary market. I can actually sell most or all my TS interests for as much or more than I paid for them based on going rates on sites like Redweek.
 
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Resorts Owned
Marriott grand vista
I know when I met with MVC pre-COVID I had to buy a few thousand points in connection with enrolling my week if I wanted to enroll it, so it was more in the $30,000 range.
I'd consider enrolling for a fee if it didn't require the additional spending. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm interested to see if any option becomes available in the future if/when MVC rolls out a new program that includes MVC/Vistana integrated product.
Several years ago, I was offered the opportunity to enroll with the purchase of points for the low, low, price of ~$28K. I told them I'd be willing to buy 1 point; the slick reply from the salesman was it would still cost me ~$28K. It was a no for me...
Doubt it will ever go down while they double the product offering. Just another reason for it to go up.
 
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Resorts Owned
Marriott grand vista
Pre-covid I sat with a rep at the Maui Marriott to discuss my post 2010 week. After lots of this and that, deals, permutations, etc., the total cost for me to enroll was going to be about $20,000. I pointed out that’s about the cost to buy an entire week, ocean front, 2 bedroom, on the secondary market and I felt that was a lot to spend for the real, but not big, benefits having points offered, especially since we don’t expect to use them anywhere other than Maui. The biggest advantage was the ability to check in/out on any day, so we could travel on the less costly Tuesdays, and the ability to stay less than or more than (if we locked off) one week. But, again, the cost was equal to another week!
We took advantage of being able to enroll our week by buying 3000 points. Was about $33000. Was cheaper when we were offered it years ago and we regretted not doing it. When we say the option again we called our rep we had worked with and with the covid promotions we also got 9000 bonus points. For the transaction which was way more than offered previously. We have a big trip coming up and that covers all of it which was going to be about $20,000 anyway. Timing was just right
 
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Resorts Owned
Marriott grand vista
Depending on the actual cost per point you'd be spending at least $30,000 to enroll just one week purchased after 6/2010...... Some may think it's worth it. I don't.



.
You would also be getting the 3000 points every year to use for travel right? I’d assume there is a “break even” on that part part Atleast. That’s what made it worth it for us. We will use the points too
 

Dean

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,812
Reaction score
1,663
Points
448
You would also be getting the 3000 points every year to use for travel right? I’d assume there is a “break even” on that part part Atleast. That’s what made it worth it for us. We will use the points too
Just looking at the points retail vs resale, there is never a break even on that portion alone since they are exactly the same otherwise. Any break even is on the other usage for the enrolled portion and even then it's often more on usage and enjoyment over simply $$$.
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
4,620
Reaction score
1,901
Points
398
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
We took advantage of being able to enroll our week by buying 3000 points. Was about $33000. Was cheaper when we were offered it years ago and we regretted not doing it. When we say the option again we called our rep we had worked with and with the covid promotions we also got 9000 bonus points. For the transaction which was way more than offered previously. We have a big trip coming up and that covers all of it which was going to be about $20,000 anyway. Timing was just right
Curious how you were able to pay for a $20,000 trip with about $5,000 in points. This is value I want to learn about.
 

rthib

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
1,382
Reaction score
239
Points
273
Location
DFW, TX
Curious how you were able to pay for a $20,000 trip with about $5,000 in points. This is value I want to learn about.
Could easily do 2+ weeks in 2 bedroom oceanfront for 9,000 points vs redweek rental at $1,500+ / night
 
Top