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Elite Online Universities Will Soon Monopolize Higher Education

CalGalTraveler

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[Note: I changed the thread title from "Cyborg" in the article title to "Online" to make it less Click Bait worthy]
 
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elaine

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Given high student debt, many from third or fourth tier colleges, with slim job prospects, I can see the appeal. It would've been ideal for older DD and DS, who also worked. And those in grad programs-as many grads are already online.
But, for undergrad what about international relations club, service groups, etc. and I'm not even mentioning greek life. Those extra-curricular things that inspire kids to decide what they want to do based upon interests? I have 2 college freshman. both online now due to C19. DD at small elite college gets zoom classes etc., but really misses the human interaction and interest clubs. DS at big state U had a difficult time motivating to learn online. I could not see him for 4 years online. He was in a business major "learning community" dorm, with a common biz class and activities. It really helped him feel connected. What happens with online?
 

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[Note: I changed the thread title from "Cyborg" in the article title to "Online" to make it less Click Bait worthy]

I didn't click but believe it's probably true - Harvard is online so all the "elite" schools will be online
 
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TravelTime

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I have mixed feelings about colleges going online. I think there is a lot gained from the on campus experience. I wonder how colleges will integrate the online/offline experience. Will there be cost savings to this model? Will elite schools lose their brand prestige by going online? Will there end up being a small group of highly elite colleges that are still primarily offline with the second and third tier colleges only offering online experiences? These colleges already own their buildings so not sure how much they save by selling them and who would buy them? Will students want to stay home to do online college? Part of the fun of going to college is getting out from under their parents and becoming independent. Will graduation rates be lower from online colleges? It is much harder to self motivate with online classes. So many issues need to be sorted out before online college can become the reality for the majority.
 

elaine

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Yep. But I see it as perfect for grad school. I think Purdue was starting a big online push last year?
I bet elites will still charge $$$, why not. They’ll have plenty of takers. Plus if young adults can live at home, they can save a lot of $$$. My niece went to columbia law school. A huge expense was housing. I think law school could be online with zoom. Maybe proctored tests.
 

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I follow Galloway on twitter, listen to his podcasts, etc. He's a smart guy. I've also spent >20 years in a top US research university as a faculty member and administrator and I'm not sure I buy this (and he is far from the first person to say it).

To be sure, there are market segments for which this is true. Terminal Masters programs are definitely candidates for an online market--and some schools have already started to accomplish it. Georgia Tech has a computer science MS degree that is quite successful. My own institution (Michigan) recently started a Masters of Applied Data Science that is entirely online and it is doing well.

The GA Tech program is particularly interesting. Even though it is quite a bit less expensive---both in terms of tuition and because you don't have to leave home and can live somewhere much less expensive than Atlanta---it has not cannibalized the residential masters program. The latter gets roughly the same application traffic it always has. The people in the online version are typically folks already in the labor market who are looking to move up or switch careers, and those people were never going to enroll in a residential program because they have full time jobs that they can't afford to leave.

Some Doctoral degrees work the same way. Ed.D. programs are often online, again for the same reasons: their market consists mostly of people who are already in careers and are looking to move up the advancement ladder or into adjacent career tracks to what they are doing now. Others are definitely residential, and likely to remain that way: anything in the sciences, for two reasons. First, they tend to be lab-oriented, and it's not clear how to replicate them online. Second, they are structured much more as apprenticeships, where coursework isn't that important but day to day interactions--especially unplanned ones--are a big part of the learning experience. Computer science is a good example of the latter. Unless you are doing something that interfaces with the real world (robotics, embedded hardware) it's trival to do virtually. But, the online tools aren't there for an equivalent training opportunity.

However, I don't think this is going to happen at the undergraduate level--at least, not at schools that have something approaching competitive admissions, and not anytime soon. The value proposition of an undergraduate degree at a place like Michigan is not the courses we teach. After all, our thermodynamics course looks exactly like everyone else's version: there are three laws, everyone agrees on what they are, and we all explain them more or less the same way. (Entropy is always increasing!)

The value proposition is instead in what happens when you identify a set of students with some combination of high ability and strong preparation, and put them together in a few square miles for four years. They learn from each other more than they learn from us in ways both formal and informal. The 2AM debates on philosophy, religion, and current affairs are things you just can't replicate in a bunch of predefined classes taught inexpensively at large scale.

In one of my administrative roles, I oversaw the undergraduate education programs in the College of Engineering--about 10,000 students. The College had an advisory board of successful alumni (read: wealthy current and prospective donors). The nature of wealth being what it is, most of them had connections to computing and advanced technology. They all said for years that we were at risk of being disrupted out of existence by online education. At least, they did until I posed the following question:

Suppose your child had two options. They could come to Michigan, live here for four years and take classes in residence at our current tuition rates. Or, they could instead live anywhere they wanted except for Ann Arbor, pay 1/10th the price, and take exactly the same classes online. Which would you have them choose?

You can imagine that they didn't have to think hard about the answer.
 

normab

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I like the option for more online classes at local colleges, whether they’re public or private institutions, two or four year schools.

Personally, I felt that living away at college was tremendous for my growth because I grew up very sheltered. I really had to learn how to take care of my own problems and how to interact with all types of people.

But there’s so much college debt now and I’ve wondered If in the internet age, if many of the students could have gone for two years online and then transferred to do two years on campus, therefore decreasing their debt but still giving them a campus experience...
 

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I like the option for more online classes at local colleges, whether they’re public or private institutions, two or four year schools.

Personally, I felt that living away at college was tremendous for my growth because I grew up very sheltered. I really had to learn how to take care of my own problems and how to interact with all types of people.

But there’s so much college debt now and I’ve wondered If in the internet age, if many of the students could have gone for two years online and then transferred to do two years on campus, therefore decreasing their debt but still giving them a campus experience...

I wondered why students did not do two years of community college living at home and then transfer to a four year university to get their degree. That was already a cost efficient solution that many students and families did not select.
 

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I like the option for more online classes at local colleges, whether they’re public or private institutions, two or four year schools.

Personally, I felt that living away at college was tremendous for my growth because I grew up very sheltered. I really had to learn how to take care of my own problems and how to interact with all types of people.

But there’s so much college debt now and I’ve wondered If in the internet age, if many of the students could have gone for two years online and then transferred to do two years on campus, therefore decreasing their debt but still giving them a campus experience...

yes, it will be interesting
I enjoyed my college education, a shame if secondary education goes online ... I don't want to think about online frat parties
 

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I support the online model if only to stop the skyrocketing costs. if a student is using no physical resources from the school, it would be hard to justify add on fees.
 

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There is one big problem with distance learning -- those who lack robust critical-thinking skills are susceptible to reading material and drawing illogical and perhaps even dangerous conclusions. Zealots want to keep their members on a short leash -- away from any competing ideas which might turn into kernels of doubt.

That's one of the big advantages of a big, open campus -- the enormous barrage of viewpoints allows the best ideas to thrive and the irrational ones to wither.
 

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There is one big problem with distance learning -- those who lack robust critical-thinking skills are susceptible to reading material and drawing illogical and perhaps even dangerous conclusions. Zealots want to keep their members on a short leash -- away from any competing ideas which might turn into kernels of doubt.

That's one of the big advantages of a big, open campus -- the enormous barrage of viewpoints allows the best ideas to thrive and the irrational ones to wither.
LMAO, oh yes its very dangerous to let them draw their own conclusions, better to tell them what to think. Unfortunately there is not much diversity of thought on campus these days.
 
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I have done both and see some advantages for online. Mainly savings in R&B and flexibility for business travel. I do think you can get more out of in person classes. However if you can’t then online is a real optio.
 

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LMAO, oh yes its very dangerous to let them draw their own conclusions, better to tell them what to think. Unfortunately there is not much diversity of thought on campus these days.

This is the only country in the developed world which has a problem with conspiracy theory run amok. Despite having the university system that the world sends its gifted students to, our own population suffers from anti-vaxx, moon-landing-hoaxer, holocaust-denying, flat-Earth dim bulbs. And yes, such ideas become dangerous if the zealot in question has access to a home arsenal -- as we have seen all too often recently.
 

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This is the only country in the developed world which has a problem with conspiracy theory run amok. Despite having the university system that the world sends its gifted students to, our own population suffers from anti-vaxx, moon-landing-hoaxer, holocaust-denying, flat-Earth dim bulbs. And yes, such ideas become dangerous if the zealot in question has access to a home arsenal -- as we have seen all too often recently.
What elite universities are we talking about? The IVY League, MIT and Stanford?
 

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If you are interested in hearing or reading more about whether elite schools can expand while maintaining quality, there is a recent podcast that may be of interest. The transcript and podcast are in this link:


If something becomes widely available for a reasonable price, it is no longer "elite." I don't foresee tippy-top schools offering degrees online anytime soon.
 

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What elite universities are we talking about? The IVY League, MIT and Stanford?

Pretty-much all of them. Even some community colleges attract foreign students -- the College of Southern Nevada has a respected culinary program, for instance. And Florida Keys Community College has a respected diving program. I don't think I've ever taken a class that didn't have at least one foreign student -- trying to build a better future by studying in the US. It's basically the last bit of social cachet this country enjoys.
 

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;)
 
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CalGalTraveler

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Do you all realize this was a 2-year-old thread that was recently revived? :doh:
 
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