eBay purchase, vendor not providing document

[JillChang]

Just purchased another timeshare on eBay, I think this is the 6th

However, this vendor does not want to use a closing company and is not providing enough information to do my due diligence, AND he wants me to pay first before he drafts a transfer agreement.

Although he has 100% feedback, 250+ or so, most of those were his purchases, and his sales were in the 20 to 100 dollar items, this is his first timeshare sales and he said it belonged to his parent.

Total amount is over $1500, and it has been over 4 days of exchanging emails and I still did not get the information I need.

So what do you think tuggers? should I pay the guy upfront based on his feedback (which is what he is saying and that he said he is not a crook), or is it my right to get all documentation so I can verify before I pay?

And if he does not co-operate, what should I do? I do not want to get a non-payment warning from eBay.

Thanks
Jill

 

[BocaBum99]

You should have negotiated these details prior to bidding. In this case, I still would want the money to be in escrow. You can use either escrow.com or any of the timeshare closing companies. The cost is between $75-100 just for escrow services.

Still, it's probably not worth it to someone to get negative feedback after spending so much time building it up.

 

[Blondie]

If he will not disclose the details of the purchase and give you the info you need to confirm everything then tell him you cannot pay. Of course an escrow company is the answer, but, come on- the guy has to allow you to check all the info first... He should at least allow the resort to communicate with you so you can find out what you are buying. I'd be wary but not because he is a scammer, more likely because he may be incorrect on some of the details and without a way to check you jusr cannot know. Can you talk by phone at least???

 

[Dave*H]

However, this vendor does not want to use a closing company and is not providing enough information to do my due diligence, AND he wants me to pay first before he drafts a transfer agreement.

I can only guess that he wants the money first so that he can verify that you are sincere in your purchase before he puts in any effort. (Assuming he is not a crook.) Has he given a reason why he won't provide the information you are requesting? Maybe you could propose a modest down payment to get things moving, and at this point, I wouldn't pay via check, only paypal. From your post, it sounds like you've had difficulty getting much of anything from him. Personally, I'd take a hit on my ebay feedback before I'd risk $1500. You can give him negative feedback as well. If you rarely sell, negative feedback is a bigger deal for him than you.

 

[JillChang]

This vendor's attittude is like "why do you need such information? I have a good feedback, pay me first"

I tried explaining to him that I must verify everything, SA, MF, RTU expiry date, etc. I also explain that i will be liable if there is anything outstanding so I have to be careful. But his reply is always only a short sentence without giving me anything.

I also want to see a copy the transfer document he will prepare AFTER I paid him, just in there is some minor detail we need to work out. He acts like he didn't hear me.

I did communicate with the seller before the auction end. I ask him all my questions at the time, but did not go as far as his account info and everything. I was alway able to do that after purchase. Besides, without knowing whether I will win the bid or not, I didn't want to waste my time. I purchased once from an owner, and we worked out just fine.

I did propose using an escrow or closing company in my latest email. His reply is only that he already gave me all the information that I need, no answer as to my proposal. So, at this point, I am beginning to be suspicious, it is obvious he does not want to use an escrow or closing company. There must be something he is hiding.

So I guess I will risk a negative feedback, I don't want to waste $1500 on what is beginning to look like a nightmare.

 

[northwoodsgal]

Is there any way you can contact the resort directly? Technically, the seller should give you permission to do so, but if you can convince the resort you're a legitimate buyer, perhaps giving them the eBay specifics, they may help out. If nothing else, you could ask what is necessary to change it to your name and are there any fees. You may get more answers than just that out of the resort.

Secondly, depending on the county's Register of Deeds office, you may be able to do an online search for ownership. Even if you have the owner's name and approximate year they purchased it, a call to the Register's office may be able to verify some of the information. What may be hard to verify, though, is that this guy is really the owner's son.

Which goes back to calling the resort. If you tell them you want to make sure the seller isn't scamming you or the real owners, I bet they would help out. Provide your seller's and his parent's names and see what the resort will do.

Don't think for a moment that you don't have the full right to verify what you're buying. The seller is on an ego trip. Great for him. YOU'RE the one that has to live with the consequences. Follow your gut feeling and verify you information. Take it from someone who has been scammed out of a timeshare deposit. Luckily, it's being paid back.

 

[funtime]

threatening with negative feedback

It may not be necessary to actually give negative feedback (and risk getting it yourself). However, you might threaten him with it in a nice way!!
Next email tell him that you have purchased several timeshares and your type of request is typical and standard (possibly giving some prior concrete examples.) Tell him his stance is outside the norm for timeshare sales and his variance from standard procedure without prior notice in the ebay ad of such variance might cause you to give negative feedback for lack of disclosure.
Now, here comes the benefit of the doubt part -- first he is emotionally wrapped up in this as he probably promised his parents he would take care of it etc and they may all be having buyer's remorse. Secondly, his parents may have had this for years and simply lost the deed. So you might ask if his parents had kept the deed or if they misplaced it, you will want to check the resort etc. Good luck!

 

[Dave*H]

In my experience, most sellers barely know what they own. Since he is selling for his parents, he likely knows even less than than they know. As suggested, you may have luck getting information by calling the resort directly. However, even if everything checks out, I would still be hesitant given his attitude. You are still relying on him to follow through with all the paperwork. Lay out your terms to move forward, and see what happens. If one of the options you offer him is to go through a closing company, make it clear that you will pay the associated costs. Given the well known prevalence of scams on the internet, any reasonable seller has to be understanding of your desire to do due deligence. I'm not sure how ebay handles non-paying bidders on real estate since according to ebay terms, real estate auctions are non-binding. If it comes to the point of terminating the transaction, you might sugguest that neither leave any feedback.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

You might also send him the link to the TUG TS Buyer's Due Diligence article just to show him that what you are requesting is not out of the norm.

 

[JillChang]

I just receive his draft for the transfer agreement, I deleted his name, number, and resort name for his privacy, but what do you guys think? This is his version of purchase agreement......... I don't know myself, does he really think it is this simple!




To: vacation club name
FR: vendor's name
RE: MEMBERSHIP ____________________

THIS MEMBER SHIP HAS BEEN SOLD TO _______________________________

AS OF ____________________.

ALL MAINTENANCE FEES ARE CURRENT. PLEASE BANK LAST YEARS POINTS FOR THE NEW OWNERS USE.

INCLUDED PLEASE FIND THE TRANSFER FEE OF $350.00 PROVIDED BY BUYER.

YOU MAY CONTACT ME DIRECTLY AT xxx-xxx-xxxx IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.






________________________________ ___________________________________
SELLER SIGNATURE BUYER SIGNATURE



_______________________________ ___________________________________
SELLER WITNESS BUYER WITNESS

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

It it's a deeded timeshare it won't work.

Also, what paperwork does the resort require to transfer ownership? Do they require notarized signature?

 

[Blondie]

Jill- If this is a Royal Holiday Club points purchase, don't do it. They are so hard to deal with and it sounds like the seller may not even have all the info. Even with all info current and correct RHC can be a disaster to deal with, often adding in mysterious fees after the sale has occurred. If the buyer is not helping you out now, when RHC starts looking for more money from you or says maint fees are not paid even if they are, he does not sound like the sort of seller who will assist you. I bought an RHC package on ebay and the seller and I became almost intimate buddies over the 5 months it took to get everything resolved- mainly due to RHC's awful bookkeeping system. Run away form this one!

 

[JillChang]

Jill- If this is a Royal Holiday Club points purchase, don't do it. They are so hard to deal with and it sounds like the seller may not even have all the info. Even with all info current and correct RHC can be a disaster to deal with, often adding in mysterious fees after the sale has occurred. If the buyer is not helping you out now, when RHC starts looking for more money from you or says maint fees are not paid even if they are, he does not sound like the sort of seller who will assist you. I bought an RHC package on ebay and the seller and I became almost intimate buddies over the 5 months it took to get everything resolved- mainly due to RHC's awful bookkeeping system. Run away form this one!

thanks, I will, it is not RHC, but I have a feeling now the vendor is hiding something, and I will risk a negative feedback or non-payment warning from ebay.

 

[Bill4728]

Jill
If I was selling you one of my two point based TS, the draft aggrement he sent you would be all that was needed for the transfer of my memberships. Before assuming that this guy is not on the level, Give him a call. Tell him that before any money changes hands you MUST verify the information he is telling you with the resort. And as an extra measure of saftey use an escrow service.

Good Luck

 

[Blondie]

Bill- The draft agreement may suffice if the buyer has done her due diligence, but it gives Jill no way of knowing if the resort info is accurate. Again, the guy is likely not a scammer but could make an honest mistake by not really knowing what he is selling and by providing inaccurate info to Jill. Not a good chance to take...

 

[Pit]

I wouldn't waste time trying to resolve this through email. Too much at stake.

Since you were the high bidder, request his contact information using the link below. Then call him and request the information you need to verify the details. If you cannot get the information you need from him, cancel the deal. If he really wants to sell it, and is not trying to scam you, there is no good reason for him to refuse your request.

http://cgi1.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?UserInformationRequest

 

[philemer]

Looks like an RAVC purchase. If you have his parents name you can call RAVC and verify the info. If he won't even give you their names I'd dump the deal & move on.

Phil

 

[JillChang]

Bill, I had repeatedly asked for documents without results. I am one of those who prefer email rather than phone because I am busy and need to manage my time. I don't see a difference in calling him or email him, he did email me back, he just did not email me the information I need.

I also ask for escrow or closing service - 3 times, he did not respond to this specific request in his subsequent emails. I know for a timeshare sale, this behavior is not the norm. I simply can not pay $1500 by paypal, can I? by the time I found out this membership has big problem it is too late to reverse charges.

There are also a couple other indications that led me to believe he is hiding something. I found out that there are additional fees that this club charges even though I have ask him specifically before I bid regarding this, he had told me that there is no charge. The extra charges amounts to $150 which I am not about to pay. And in one of his email he is hinting at MF not quite paid and there are some late fee charges, so it lead me to think there might be some other issues as well.

I have made up my mind not to proceed with this purchase. I have use eBay for 5 years and also have almost perfect rating. I like to keep my rating, but I also hate loosing $1500 more.

 

[Ken555]

thanks, I will, it is not RHC, but I have a feeling now the vendor is hiding something, and I will risk a negative feedback or non-payment warning from ebay.

Wow, this seller would make me climb the wall with frustration.

If he replies to your emails with one sentence answers, then you *know* something is up. If he thinks a buyer should hand over $1500 on the word of an *email* and not permitting escrow, then he's nuts. As long as you're willing to pay for closing expenses (and you might even consider a title report with this joker), he has no justification to deny you.

You're doing the right thing by risking negative feedback. Let him try! If he does hit you with negative feedback, do the same to him. Be careful NOT to leave any feedback for him until he does for you, since once you do you can't change it.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Wow, this seller would make me climb the wall with frustration.

If he replies to your emails with one sentence answers, then you *know* something is up. If he thinks a buyer should hand over $1500 on the word of an *email* and not permitting escrow, then he's nuts. As long as you're willing to pay for closing expenses (and you might even consider a title report with this joker), he has no justification to deny you.

You're doing the right thing by risking negative feedback. Let him try! If he does hit you with negative feedback, do the same to him. Be careful NOT to leave any feedback for him until he does for you, since once you do you can't change it.

If you do file negative feedback, don't file your negative feeback until 90 days after the auction closes. After 90 days feedback is closed, so unless the seller responds to your feedback immediately, they can't file a negative reply to your rating.

 

[Keitht]

Bill, I had repeatedly asked for documents without results. I am one of those who prefer email rather than phone because I am busy and need to manage my time. I don't see a difference in calling him or email him, he did email me back, he just did not email me the information I need.

I suspect a single phone call could put this to bed once and for all. If the vendor won't give you the information on the phone you can tell him direct that you will not be completing the transaction and will be leaving negative feedback. That has to be a better way to 'manage my time' than a trickle of unhelpful e-mails.
To me there is a big difference between e-mail and the spoken word. E-mails have no tone or context whereas the spoken word has both.
I get the impression that you are probably each distrusting of the other, and probably both without real justification.
If the vendor is acting for his parents and does not own timeshare himself he may well not be aware of the level of concern purchasers have.

Manage your time effectively - pick up the phone and speak to him.