eBay purchase question - Presidential Reserve resort

[ts traveler]

Are there downsides to purchasing points on eBay from a resort that is exclusively Presidential Reserve? Can these points purchased resale be used for reservations at any Club Wyndham resort?

 

[DRH90277]

When buying on eBay, does the purchaser assume the risk of any arrearage in maintenance fees? How can one assess the amount of this risk with respect to a timeshare listed on eBay?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

When buying on eBay, does the purchaser assume the risk of any arrearage in maintenance fees? How can one assess the amount of this risk with respect to a timeshare listed on eBay?

You can ask for the estoppel letter. In addition, Wyndham won’t (or are not supposed to) transfer an acccount if maintenance fees are in arrears. None of this is foolproof of course, there is some risk. I would always try to buy from eBay resellers with good feedback (from selling timeshares).

 

[ts traveler]

Are there downsides to purchasing points on eBay from a resort that is exclusively Presidential Reserve? Can these points purchased resale be used for reservations at any Club Wyndham resort?

Asking again. Are points
Purchased on eBay at an exclusively presidential reserve resort used in the same way as other Wyndham points? Does the points are points concept apply? Thanks for any input.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Asking again. Are points
Purchased on eBay at an exclusively presidential reserve resort used in the same way as other Wyndham points? Does the points are points concept apply? Thanks for any input.

Yes. There are some additional benefits/priorities to owning PR points (mainly that you get access to PR inventory in the ARP at your home resort I believe), but they also function and can be used as regular points everywhere during the SRP.

 

[ts traveler]

Yes. There are some additional benefits/priorities to owning PR points (mainly that you get access to PR inventory in the ARP at your home resort I believe), but they also function and can be used as regular points everywhere during the SRP.

Thank you.

 

[Pink_Warrior]

Asking again. Are points
Purchased on eBay at an exclusively presidential reserve resort used in the same way as other Wyndham points? Does the points are points concept apply? Thanks for any input.

You must own a minimum of 1 million PR points. If it happens to be a very rare less than a million, those points are tied to that particular resort until 30 days out (I believe.)

The points are points concept applies at 10 months. 14-12 is your home resort priority, 12-10 are the rest of the PR resorts, 10 months and less points are points. From 14-10 months those are PR units so the points are usually pretty high.

 

[ts traveler]

You must own a minimum of 1 million PR points. If it happens to be a very rare less than a million, those points are tied to that particular resort until 30 days out (I believe.)

The points are points concept applies at 10 months. 14-12 is your home resort priority, 12-10 are the rest of the PR resorts, 10 months and less points are points. From 14-10 months those are PR units so the points are usually pretty high.

So if you purchase less than a million PR points on eBay the points are points concept applies and these points can be used for Wyndham resort locations at 10 months out?

 

[Pink_Warrior]

So if you purchase less than a million PR points on eBay the points are points concept applies and these points can be used for Wyndham resort locations at 10 months out?

No. Those points are only good at that resort until 30 days out from check-in.

 

[paxsarah]

No. Those points are only good at that resort until 30 days out from check-in.

That's not how I read it (2023-24 directory Page 304-05):
"In the event that a Presidential Reserve Member's ownership interest or Assigned Use Right in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s) totals less than 1,000,000 Club Wyndham Plus points, Member will no longer be eligible to receive benefits under the Presidential Reserve program. Benefits shall be limited to Advance Reservation Priority (ARP) bookings in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s) at Member's "home" resort from 14 to 12 months prior to check-in date, and benefits available to Member under the Club Wyndham Plus program based upon the number of points owned."

The way I read it is a <1,000,000 PR owner receives no PR benefits other than home resort ARP from 14 to 12 months, but the bolded states that they receive normal Club Wyndham owner benefits otherwise, which would include 10 month booking, etc.

 

[Pink_Warrior]

That's not how I read it (2023-24 directory Page 304-05):
"In the event that a Presidential Reserve Member's ownership interest or Assigned Use Right in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s) totals less than 1,000,000 Club Wyndham Plus points, Member will no longer be eligible to receive benefits under the Presidential Reserve program. Benefits shall be limited to Advance Reservation Priority (ARP) bookings in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s) at Member's "home" resort from 14 to 12 months prior to check-in date, and benefits available to Member under the Club Wyndham Plus program based upon the number of points owned."

The way I read it is a <1,000,000 PR owner receives no PR benefits other than home resort ARP from 14 to 12 months, but the bolded states that they receive normal Club Wyndham owner benefits otherwise, which would include 10 month booking, etc.

This would be a change to the way that it was written in the fine print in older directories. The devil is in the details and the details are not clear. "Benefits under the Presidential Reserve program" is the wildcard here. In old verbiage there was status and membership type. Is a PR benefit the amenities or booking, discounts, and upgrades which is more status type. PR is a different type of point so I don't really see that they can legally take away the amenities attached to the points (inasmuch as they tend to view most of the questionable things that they do as legal.)

 

[ts traveler]

This would be a change to the way that it was written in the fine print in older directories. The devil is in the details and the details are not clear. "Benefits under the Presidential Reserve program" is the wildcard here. In old verbiage there was status and membership type. Is a PR benefit the amenities or booking, discounts, and upgrades which is more status type. PR is a different type of point so I don't really see that they can legally take away the amenities attached to the points (inasmuch as they tend to view most of the questionable things that they do as legal.)

I am only interested in using the points for CWP reservations at 10 months or less. I do not care about PR benefits.

 

[dioxide45]

I am only interested in using the points for CWP reservations at 10 months or less. I do not care about PR benefits.

Then buying PR probably isn't a good idea. Don't they have a high MF/1000 points? There are probably better CWS deeds out there.

 

[paxsarah]

This would be a change to the way that it was written in the fine print in older directories. The devil is in the details and the details are not clear. "Benefits under the Presidential Reserve program" is the wildcard here. In old verbiage there was status and membership type. Is a PR benefit the amenities or booking, discounts, and upgrades which is more status type. PR is a different type of point so I don't really see that they can legally take away the amenities attached to the points (inasmuch as they tend to view most of the questionable things that they do as legal.)

I'm checking directories back to 2009-10 and here's what I find:
2009-10: Doesn't specify what benefits are or are not given when points fall below 1 million. The closest thing (which requires some interpretation) is this: "Eligibility Requirements: CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve program and benefits are available to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members allocated at least 1 million CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points through the purchase of an ownership interest in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s)." My reading is that if you don't have at least 1 million PR points, you're still a Club Wyndham Plus member and would get CWP benefits like 10 month bookings.
2011-12: Very similar to 2009-10, with no direct reference to what benefits a sub-million PR ownership would or would not receive: "The CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve product and benefits are available to CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Members who have purchased an ownership interest in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s) with a minimum allocation of 1 million CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points."
2014-15: Remains similarly non-specific as the benefits kept or lost below 1 million points, but still seems to imply that the owner is a Club Wyndham Plus owner regardless. "The CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve product and benefits are available to CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus Members who have purchased and continue to own within one contract (i) an ownership interest in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s), or an ownership interest at a Presidential Reserve Resort with an Assigned Use Right to occupy a Presidential Reserve Suite(s), with a minimum allocation of 1 million CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Points; or (ii) a minimum allocation of 1 million Presidential Reserve Points in a Club that owns an ownership interest in, or an Assigned Use Right to occupy, a Presidential Reserve Suite(s)."
2018-19: Now we have what's essentially the current language, which clearly allows normal CWP benefits: "In the event that a CLUB WYNDHAM Presidential Reserve Member’s ownership interest or Assigned Use Right in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s) totals less than 1,000,000 CLUB WYNDHAM Plus points, Member will no longer be eligible to receive benefits under the Presidential Reserve program. Benefits shall be limited to Advance Reservation Priority (ARP) bookings in a Presidential Reserve Suite(s) at Member’s “home” resort from 14 to 12 months prior to check-in date, and benefits available to Member under the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus program based upon the number of points owned."
2021-22: Same

So if you have something older than 2009, it would be interesting to see what was the verbiage at that time. Otherwise, there's no reference anywhere going back to 2009 which restricts a PR owner with less than a million points to only booking CWP locations in the 30-day window. All signs seem to point to such an owner being a CWP owner (which makes sense, because the directories also tend to categorize Presidential Reserve as a type of ownership that falls under the broader CWP umbrella), just with very limited (almost nonexistent) PR benefits.

 

[paxsarah]

Then buying PR probably isn't a good idea. Don't they have a high MF/1000 points? There are probably better CWS deeds out there.

Higher than the same resort's non-PR maintenance fees, but they can still be lower than average. But also, any resale PR contracts I've seen in the wild seem overpriced compared to a similar non-PR resale contract. If I found one at a lower MF location and also needed a million points (which, for all the talk of smaller PR contracts being limited in PR benefts, I don't think I've ever seen one in the wild anyway) and it was by some fluke not overpriced, it would be fine. But I wouldn't pay the premium most sellers seem to ask for PR contracts.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I am only interested in using the points for CWP reservations at 10 months or less. I do not care about PR benefits.

I wouldn’t buy PR. They have higher maintenance fees and there are plenty of other good choices out there. You can book presidential inventory with normal points at the 10 month mark.

 

[Pink_Warrior]

The caviat is the million points. Between MF and program fee, you are talking 7-8k per year. And at the PR unit points (figure no discounts) you can actually spend the entire 1 million points on the largest unit in Sundara for one week. That is a lot of money. And seeing that it is a resale contract, I literally dump a million points into RCI every year (since they kept screwing me on Extra Holidays.)

There is one TUG owner (not that I remember his name) who bought a smaller Bali Hai and it came in as PR, which is why I started barking up this tree to begin with. You can buy smaller units of PR if you already own a million.

I don't think that the resale PR contracts are particularly overpriced. I was selling one. It was the lowball offers that made me mad so I kept it. In fact, I had one that I was going to hand over to Certified Exit. One might think that they could realize what a goldmine this was and that documents needed to be done ASAP. It took so long (like 4 months) for them to get documents to me that I had given up and sold it myself. This was over 1.3 million PR points that Wyndham couldn't even see its value AS FREE.

 

[Jan M.]

Yes, PR (designated) points pay a higher maintenance fee than Club Wyndham Select (standard) points at the same resorts. And yes, PR points pay an additional $0.08 per thousand in program fees on the first million points. However if this PR is at say Canterbury, Bali Hai, Dye Villas, National Harbor, Panama City Beach, Midtown 45, and I think maybe Avon too, and the purchase price is good, you might want to consider it. Afaik these are the PR resorts with the lowest to lower than average maintenance fees.

Since you're only concerned about booking at 10 months or less when "points are points" and can be used to book all the available inventory, PR or standard units at all the resorts, with the exception of Margaritaville resorts which are 6 months I think, it won't matter to you that prior to the 10 month mark you can only book your home resort. I'm not sure if being able to book other PR resorts at 12-10 months applies to resale owners or if that's a perk only for developer PR owners.

 

[ts traveler]

Thank you to all for your input. Much appreciated!

 

[Floridaman76]

There just doesn't seem to be any value in owning PR unless you are going all-in and buying 1million or more points, and even that, it's of dubious value.

I remember seeing some comment in previous posts that if you have 1 million or more PR points, you are also automatically VIPP, however I can't imagine that would be true with resale.

 

[paxsarah]

There just doesn't seem to be any value in owning PR unless you are going all-in and buying 1million or more points, and even that, it's of dubious value.

I remember seeing some comment in previous posts that if you have 1 million or more PR points, you are also automatically VIPP, however I can't imagine that would be true with resale.

It's not true with resale. The key term in the documentation is PR owners with 1 million points in an "eligible" contract receive Founders level, and resale contracts aren't eligible.