DVC rental crackdown?

[RX8]

Renting of exchanges is not prohibited by Disney- its prohibited by Interval. Its Interval that needs to crack down on this. I mean how hard would it be for them to see who is doing a lot of Disney exchanges and frequently adding guest certificates to them? Should be a very easy crack down if they wanted to.

Understood. If DVC was serious though about stopping what they consider unauthorized renting then they should be able to use their influence to have II do a better job of stopping it.

 

[dioxide45]

Understood. If DVC was serious though about stopping what they consider unauthorized renting then they should be able to use their influence to have II do a better job of stopping it.

I think renting of II rentals is just a small drop in the bucket compare to the volume of DVC point rentals. II exchange rentals are also mostly the less desirable resorts anyway. That isn't the big complaint of the membership base.

 

[bnoble]

Exactly. This is shaking out with DVC a lot like it did at Wyndham. It is being driven by an owner perception of rental-driven scarcity.

No one is angry that 1BRs at Saratoga are unavailable internally. But that’s also not what’s on the spec rental lists.

 

[dioxide45]

Exactly. This is shaking out with DVC a lot like it did at Wyndham. It is being driven by an owner perception of rental-driven scarcity.

No one is angry that 1BRs at Saratoga are unavailable internally. But that’s also not what’s on the spec rental lists.

Does DVC see a lot of cancellations of spec rentals like Wyndham did? I understand that is one way that Wyndham identifies potential commercial renters, they have an unusually high rate of cancellations just before the 15 day cutoff.

 

[Huskerpaul]

Does DVC see a lot of cancellations of spec rentals like Wyndham did? I understand that is one way that Wyndham identifies potential commercial renters, they have an unusually high rate of cancellations just before the 15 day cutoff.

DVC has a 30 day cut off to refund points without going into holding. Canceling an unrented spec reservation would also have to contend with the banking deadline. If the reservation fell in the last 3 months of the use year those points could not be banked. I don't know about cancelation rates, but I do know I have picked up the one-off Grand California Studio leading up to the cancelation deadline, so cancelations do happen.

 

[heathpack]

One of the DISBoards Moderators called and got a supervisor on record (via an acknowledged recorded line) to state what DVC considers commercial:

DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss. | DVC Mousecellaneous

Did Yes but I had to ask to be escalated to a supervisor... Join the DVC Mousecellaneous discussion on DISboards.

www.disboards.com

There are lots of clarifying posts later in that thread, but that's the important one. In short: you can rent to recover up to (but not more than) your total annual maintenance fees. So, if I own 300 points, with total annual fees of $10/pt, or $3000, then I can rent 150 of those out at $20pp, or 100 at $30, but cannot exceed $3,000 in revenue.

If Disney follows through on this even a little bit, it will completely upend the rental ecosystem.

This is actually a very sensible policy.

No idea how they’d enforce it however. It’s not as if I’m reporting my rental income to DVC.

 

[dioxide45]

One of the DISBoards Moderators called and got a supervisor on record (via an acknowledged recorded line) to state what DVC considers commercial:

DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss. | DVC Mousecellaneous

Did Yes but I had to ask to be escalated to a supervisor... Join the DVC Mousecellaneous discussion on DISboards.

www.disboards.com

There are lots of clarifying posts later in that thread, but that's the important one. In short: you can rent to recover up to (but not more than) your total annual maintenance fees. So, if I own 300 points, with total annual fees of $10/pt, or $3000, then I can rent 150 of those out at $20pp, or 100 at $30, but cannot exceed $3,000 in revenue.

If Disney follows through on this even a little bit, it will completely upend the rental ecosystem.

Hell, the stuff customer service reps make up on recorded lines every day and all day is astounding. I wouldn't take this as any form of official statement from Disney or DVC.

 

[sponger76]

Hell, the stuff customer service reps make up on recorded lines every day and all day is astounding. I wouldn't take this as any form of official statement from Disney or DVC.

That's what I was thinking. Sounds like the "supervisor " was making it up. There's no way for DVC to know how much rental income you receive.

 

[CO skier]

This is actually a very sensible policy.

No idea how they’d enforce it however. It’s not as if I’m reporting my rental income to DVC.

"DVC will also be cracking down on how many bookings you make with your membership, and if your names are listed as the lead guests on the reservation. While the policy change does outline that occasional or infrequent reservations made to rent or sell points out to someone who is not a current owner will be allowed, they will essentially be keeping tabs on those who are using membership reservations that way, so it’s something you’ll want to keep in mind." (bolding is in the original quote)

It should be easy to spot those accounts that have more than 50% of points/reservations in guest names. What if DVC then takes a "guilty until proven innocent" approach such as Wyndham did in 2016 when some accounts were "frozen" never to be thawed again?

 

[heathpack]

"DVC will also be cracking down on how many bookings you make with your membership, and if your names are listed as the lead guests on the reservation. While the policy change does outline that occasional or infrequent reservations made to rent or sell points out to someone who is not a current owner will be allowed, they will essentially be keeping tabs on those who are using membership reservations that way, so it’s something you’ll want to keep in mind."

It should be easy to spot those accounts that have more than 50% of points/reservations in guest names. What if DVC then takes a "guilty until proven innocent" approach such as Wyndham did in 2016 when some accounts were "frozen" never to be thawed again?

1. Who are you quoting?
2. The % of your points reserved under your own name vs a guest does not tell DVC what your rental income was, which supposedly is the basis of defining who will be cracked down upon.

 

[CO skier]

1. Who are you quoting?
2. The % of your points reserved under your own name vs a guest does not tell DVC what your rental income was, which supposedly is the basis of defining who will be cracked down upon.

1. Just one of the online posts about this topic. It is obviously not a quote from DVC, but it seemed reasonable to post.

The NEW Rule Disney Vacation Club Members Must Follow Now - AllEars.Net

If you're a DVC member or you're planning to become one, there's a NEW rule you need to know about!

allears.net

2. There was much speculation in TUG threads, but it was never determined the criteria Wyndham used to freeze accounts in 2016. If DVC pursues this, it is doubtful social media will ever know their criteria for who gets fingered.

 

[bnoble]

Hell, the stuff customer service reps make up on recorded lines every day and all day is astounding. I wouldn't take this as any form of official statement from Disney or DVC.

That was my initial reaction too. But I’d encourage you to read her relevant posts. That didn’t come from a front-line CM, and it didn’t come from only one conversation.

It might still be BS. But it is also a brilliant way to cut the Gordian knot of rentals are allowed, but commercial activity is not.

She has also asked the Board for written documentation, citing a few passages from the POS plus the Florida statutes that she believes requires it to be provided. I’m more skeptical about that.

 

[bnoble]

Either way, there seems to have been an uptick in listing volume for DVC resales, at a time of year that is usually a sellers market for timeshare. That’s hard to say for sure. One of the brokers that also has a spec rental arm is cross-listing listing some, but not all, of their listings at Fidelity with no associated Fidelity agent.

Of course it’s not hard to imagine why that might be.

 

[Huskerpaul]

One of the brokers that also has a spec rental arm is cross-listing listing some, but not all, of their listings at Fidelity with no associated Fidelity agent.

Of course it’s not hard to imagine why that might be.

I think you are referring to DVC Shop. You can name DVC businesses on this site.

 

[RX8]

Either way, there seems to have been an uptick in listing volume for DVC resales, at a time of year that is usually a sellers market for timeshare. That’s hard to say for sure. One of the brokers that also has a spec rental arm is cross-listing listing some, but not all, of their listings at Fidelity with no associated Fidelity agent.

Of course it’s not hard to imagine why that might be.

I don’t think I have ever seen so many Aulani subsidized dues for sale at any given time as there are now. Wouldn’t be surprised if many of these were used for renting for profit and are now selling because they see the writing on the wall.

 

[TheHolleys87]

This is actually a very sensible policy.

No idea how they’d enforce it however. It’s not as if I’m reporting my rental income to DVC.

The T&C require a contract when owners rent, which will state the rental amount. But I don’t think DVC will cancel reservations automatically. I think there will be something that will flag an owner’s account for referral to the business section for further investigation, giving the owner opportunity to explain. I also think they’re going after the big, obviously commercial operations such as the one that has listed multiple contracts for sale recently as well as the ones that advertise heavily on FB. It’s entirely possible DVC has been in contact with them. And I'm interested to see the impact on the DISboards DVC Rent/Transfer forum, where a few owners list large numbers of points. I’m not worried about the small fry.

 

[dioxide45]

The T&C require a contract when owners rent, which will state the rental amount. But I don’t think DVC will cancel reservations automatically. I think there will be something that will flag an owner’s account for referral to the business section for further investigation, giving the owner opportunity to explain. I also think they’re going after the big, obviously commercial operations such as the one that has listed multiple contracts for sale recently as well as the ones that advertise heavily on FB. It’s entirely possible DVC has been in contact with them. And I'm interested to see the impact on the DISboards DVC Rent/Transfer forum, where a few owners list large numbers of points. I’m not worried about the small fry.

Is DVC requiring the rental contract to be submitted to them for each rental?

 

[heathpack]

The T&C require a contract when owners rent, which will state the rental amount. But I don’t think DVC will cancel reservations automatically. I think there will be something that will flag an owner’s account for referral to the business section for further investigation, giving the owner opportunity to explain. I also think they’re going after the big, obviously commercial operations such as the one that has listed multiple contracts for sale recently as well as the ones that advertise heavily on FB. It’s entirely possible DVC has been in contact with them. And I'm interested to see the impact on the DISboards DVC Rent/Transfer forum, where a few owners list large numbers of points. I’m not worried about the small fry.

What T&C? Are there new ones that pertain to the rental "crackdown"?

 

[rickandcindy23]

David's Rentals, DVC Rental Store, etc., will be experiencing some hard times as a result of this crackdown.

DVC is going to start reviewing contracts? What if you have no contract and just a verbal agreement?

DVC rental prices are going to soar with this crackdown. If I can rent just half of our points each year, I can use the other half pretty easily with our kids and grandkids. Between Disney, Hilton Head, Vero Beach and Aulani, maybe even Grand Californian (availability is not great), I can use half without a problem. Aulani here we come!

 

[bnoble]

What T&C? Are there new ones that pertain to the rental "crackdown"?

The DVC contract that buyers sign includes this provision. If you are renting you are required to have a written contract. AFAIK that requirement dates back to the beginning but I haven’t checked to be sure.

 

[iftravel]

David's Rentals, DVC Rental Store, etc., will be experiencing some hard times as a result of this crackdown.

DVC is going to start reviewing contracts? What if you have no contract and just a verbal agreement?

DVC rental prices are going to soar with this crackdown. If I can rent just half of our points each year, I can use the other half pretty easily with our kids and grandkids. Between Disney, Hilton Head, Vero Beach and Aulani, maybe even Grand Californian (availability is not great), I can use half without a problem. Aulani here we come!

I just rented out some expiring Aulani points through David’s. They are expiring in December. I got them from the transferred contract and I cannot use them.

I think the rental market is important and makes owners easy to manage points. I plan to maintain a bit of overcapacity and if I use less I rent out. I got $16 pp and David’s got $7 so they are making a lot off this! but they are so fast in renting out your points so I hope they still exist in the future.

 

[TheHolleys87]

Is DVC requiring the rental contract to be submitted to them for each rental?

No, you simply need to have something to show if asked. I think many use just an email with everything spelled out.

What T&C? Are there new ones that pertain to the rental "crackdown"?

No, it’s in one of the formal documents, not sure which one - T&C, HRR, POS. The requirement for a contract has been there “forever” as far as I know.

 

[apotek]

No, you simply need to have something to show if asked. I think many use just an email with everything spelled out.

No, it’s in one of the formal documents, not sure which one - T&C, HRR, POS. The requirement for a contract has been there “forever” as far as I know.

I assume you could redact the portions of the contract indicating pricing, as frankly the pricing is none of their business.

 

[tcrogers]

I'm a DVC owner and last year I was looking to buy another contract but not in a hurry so I was putting in a few offers in the lowball range. One broker wouldn't present the offer to the seller as they had a minimum price set. I got on a chat with him and asked him to send it as the listing was a couple of months old and he still refused and told me if the seller would take the price I offered, he would have bought the contract. It didn't dawn on me until a few months later that this discussion was exactly what he was doing, i.e. buying cheap contracts and then renting points.

Talking about stripped contracts (i.e. they have borrowed and used all the points they can), I'm seeing quite a few of those listed for sale now. Much more than I have ever seen and I watch the resale sites fairly regularly.

 

[heathpack]

I'm a DVC owner and last year I was looking to buy another contract but not in a hurry so I was putting in a few offers in the lowball range. One broker wouldn't present the offer to the seller as they had a minimum price set. I got on a chat with him and asked him to send it as the listing was a couple of months old and he still refused and told me if the seller would take the price I offered, he would have bought the contract. It didn't dawn on me until a few months later that this discussion was exactly what he was doing, i.e. buying cheap contracts and then renting points.

Talking about stripped contracts (i.e. they have borrowed and used all the points they can), I'm seeing quite a few of those listed for sale now. Much more than I have ever seen and I watch the resale sites fairly regularly.

That sounds like DVC Resale Market. In my case, the broker did present the offer (or at least said he did) but he said my offer was below that brokerage’s Buy It Now price. He said the Buy It Now price is the price that the brokerage offers the seller when they list with DVC Resale Market. So if that’s the case, then the brokerage buys any listing a seller is willing to sell at a good price for a quick sale, then strips the points and relists the contract. By definition, that brokerage is not the place to seek a bargain- unless something changes with their business model.

The guy was polite about it when I made my offer, and my feeling about them is “whatever.” Just not a brokerage I’d put much effort into looking at listings.