DVC is come to DISNEYLAND...where is Hyatt?

[Carmel85]

HI


Disney files permits for Disney Vacation Club project at the Disneyland Resort
Disney filed last week for two permits related to the pending DVC expansion at the Disneyland Resort. The first is a demolition permit for the Grand Californian Hotel to "remove architectural overhangs and portion of roof sections to prepare structure for new addition." The second permit is for a remodel of the sales model unit located between the Paradise Pier and Disneyland hotels.

Disney and SunCal are in a big Fight right now so lets see where this all goes!

I do hope HYATT Vacation Club gets their So California locations on line soon or Hyatt is going to miss the boat!

Im think of buying a DVC at Disneyland how can you loose!!!

 

[nodge]

Im think of buying a DVC at Disneyland how can you loose!!!

Great News! Especially for us West Coasters with little kids!

Here are (very slow) links to the first permit and the second permit if anybody is interested in tracking their progress.

(Thank you SVO for canceling the elite upgrade benefit, and being just plain icky to us owners. Hello Mickey!)

-nodge

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Im think of buying a DVC at Disneyland how can you loose!!!

If you keep it for 3-5 years, you WILL make a PROFIT on the resale. I don't know of any other timehsare bought directly from the developer that can offer that.

 

[UWSurfer]

It's interesting to me that they'll sandwhich it in with the Grand Californian & California Adventure Park. GC is a very nice hotel setting which opens up into California Adventure.

A couple hundred feet across the road are the older hotels Disney acquired some years back with LOTS of open parking lots which I would have thought would be better for a more spacious resort setting. At first blush it sounds like they are going to leverage the GC's setting and ammenities with a DVC cluster of units. Probably not a bad way to do this at all given what the property is worth there.

 

[Carmel85]

If you keep it for 3-5 years, you WILL make a PROFIT on the resale. I don't know of any other timehsare bought directly from the developer that can offer that.

PLEASE PLEASE EXPLAIN this profit at DVC 3-5 years? HOW? WHY only 3-5 years? Track record?

 

[Kal]

If you keep it for 3-5 years, you WILL make a PROFIT on the resale. I don't know of any other timehsare bought directly from the developer that can offer that.

If that was the case we should all liquidate our investment holdings and buy DVC timeshares.

Do the numbers for a 3-year ownership followed by sale:

* Original purchase price $20K
* Assume opportunity cost for investment is 6%/year compounded
* After 3-years the investment should be valued at $23.8K
* Must sell on the resale market at 50% of current retail value
* After 3 years, must sell at $23.8K for equivalent 6%/year return

Therefore for a resale price of $23.8K the equivalent retail price by the developer would be $47.6K (i.e. 200% fo resale). Note: There's no history in the industry to support such an increase.

Since this is a high risk "investment" you would definitely want something north of 9% per year growth, so the 6% number is very conservative.

I'll file this "investment opportunity" as a pipe dream and buy a secure investment with guaranteed 5%/year return with no risk.

 

[Bill4728]

If you keep it for 3-5 years, you WILL make a PROFIT on the resale. I don't know of any other timehsare bought directly from the developer that can offer that.

Unlike many TS which sell for a max of 50% of what the developer wants, DVC sells at much more like 80% of developer prices. And since Disney will sometime discount their offerings, you can sometime buy from Disney at 90%. So if you hold the TS for 5 years, you can reach a break even on the sale of a TS bought from the Disney.

 

[formerhater]

It's interesting to me that they'll sandwhich it in with the Grand Californian & California Adventure Park. GC is a very nice hotel setting which opens up into California Adventure.

A couple hundred feet across the road are the older hotels Disney acquired some years back with LOTS of open parking lots which I would have thought would be better for a more spacious resort setting. At first blush it sounds like they are going to leverage the GC's setting and ammenities with a DVC cluster of units. Probably not a bad way to do this at all given what the property is worth there.

This is likely the first of several planned DVC options for the Anaheim resort. Disney is planning to pour billions into the area over the next decade, including the total revamp of the Disneyland Hotel, expansion of Downtown Disney, a complete overhaul of DCA, and plans for up to four new Disney branded hotels, including one adjacent to the Paradise Pier Hotel. Speculation is that additional DVC units are part of these expansion plans. I wouldn't hold my breath for any official announcements about more DVC growth in Anaheim anytime soon, but if you follow some of the unofficial Disneyland watchdog sites, you'll notice there is a lot of excitement right now and that hasn't been the case in a long, long time.

 

[Kal]

So you are suggesting timeshares are a good INVESTMENT?

As I look out my window I see the real estate market is less than stellar. Same for vacation homes.

 

[Carmel85]

Unlike many TS which sell for a max of 50% of what the developer wants, DVC sells at much more like 80% of developer prices. And since Disney will sometime discount their offerings, you can sometime buy from Disney at 90%. So if you hold the TS for 5 years, you can reach a break even on the sale of a TS bought from the Disney.

Bill,

Can you show some of us out there that do not own DVC now how you get 90%+ back... Has disney DVC prices done this in the past? PLEASE EXPLAIN MORE!!!!

In regards to location Disney has the best spot and only so much land in Anaheim not like WDW Florida.

Thank you

 

[Steamboat Bill]

PLEASE PLEASE EXPLAIN this profit at DVC 3-5 years? HOW? WHY only 3-5 years? Track record?

I have been following DVC since 1991, even though I started buying in 2000. I have also posted dozens of thread on TUG about the "resale value" of buying DVC vs other timeshares. Here is an old thread, but one of the best

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37125

Althought I CAN'T predict the future, I am basing my opinion upon any time since DVC started to the present. No matter when you bought into DVC since 1991-present, you would have been able to sell for break-even cost or a small profit in 3-5 years after your initial purchase. This explanation works for buying a tiemsahre from the developer (Disney) and you can simply shorten the timeframe from 2-4 years for a resale.

Assumptions

1. You buy DVC from Disney (or even a resale) in cash with no financing for $20,000

2. You do not include lost opportunity costs like 5% per year in your calculations

3. You ENJOY your timeshare for 3-5 years and pay the annual dues and save well over 50% each time you use it vs paying the high Disney hotel prices.

4. You decide to sell it in 3-5 years...the longer the better....you should get your $20,000 back.

Results

Because Disney raises their buy-in cost per point by an average of $5 per point per year and the resale price for "used" DVC timesahres are only about 15% less than Disney, then it will take an average of 3-5 years for the resale prices to catch up to the current developer prices. Disney also has an aggressive ROFR that keeps resale prices high. This of course has been happening since 1991 and may change in the future.

Issues

The best bang for the DVC buck is at Saratoga Springs. This is followed by Animal Kingdom as they have an additional 12-15 years left on their RTU vs the older resorts like Old Key West.

Opinion

Unlike 99.99% of all timeshares that drop in value by 50% or more when bought from a developer, Disney only drops 15%. Thus, if you buy a DVC and ENJOY it for 3-5 years, you should be able to get 100% of your initial purchase price back. This is IMPOSSIBLE with almost any other timeshare bought from a developer.

Disclaimer

I do NOT work for Disney or DVC....althought I wish they gave me a commission for posting this.

 

[rkdahl]

Just to give you some info on DVC from my perspective. I bought DVC new from the developer in '92 at $51/point. At the time, as an incentive I got free Disney park passes for our entire party staying at the resort during the next 8 years. That was several thousand $$ in park passes at the time.

The current developer price for DVC is $104/point. The resale value on the open market for the property I own is about $78/point. I've also been able to rent my points every few years to friends and familes to help cover my annual dues.

So all in all, we have done very well investing in DVC, besides having years of wonderful Disney vacations and trips elsewhere using our DVC points. And we have far more value now in our investment, than other timeshares over that same period. There is a difference though in that our DVC lease expires in 2042. We either have to sell, let it expire or see what Disney comes up with as a migration plan between today and 2042. Not sure what we'll do just yet. But all in all we are very pleased with investing in DVC.

Hope that helps some. For more DVC info check out DIS Boards at
http://www.disboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Here's a thread that shows the price increases over DVC since it started
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1540207

 

[Carmel85]

So you are suggesting timeshares are a good INVESTMENT?

As I look out my window I see the real estate market is less than stellar. Same for vacation homes.

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION!!!!!

 

[Carmel85]

Just to give you some info on DVC from my perspective. I bought DVC new from the developer in '92 at $51/point. At the time, as an incentive I got free Disney park passes for our entire party staying at the resort during the next 8 years. That was several thousand $$ in park passes at the time.

The current developer price for DVC is $104/point. The resale value on the open market for the property I own is about $78/point. I've also been able to rent my points every few years to friends and familes to help cover my annual dues.

So all in all, we have done very well investing in DVC, besides haaving years of wonderful vacations and trips elsewhere using our DVC points. And we have far more value now in our investment, than other timeshares over that same period. There is a difference though in that our DVC lease expires in 2042. We either have to sell, let it expire or see what Disney comes up with as a migration plan between today and 2042. Not sure what we'll do just yet. But all in all we are very pleased with investing in DVC.

Hope that helps some. For more DVC info check out DIS Boards at
http://www.disboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Here's a thread that shows the price increases over DVC since it started
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1540207

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

 

[wmmmmm]

I'll bite! I am tired of HGVC's concentration in Orlando, Hawaii and LV. In fact, I am seriously contemplating getting a Marriott Newport Coast just so I can go to Disneyland plus Southern California. However, if DVC is building in Disneyland, I may not be first in line but I definitely will start saving my pennies now! Thanks for the information.

 

[Denise L]

I'm on the waitlist for more Beach Club Villas points (since March) and my guide told me that maybe they'd be selling the DVC in CA before my Beach Club points come in.... and I could just buy those.

Maybe by then I will have saved the money to buy the points! Wishful thinking!

 

[Carmel85]

I'll bite! I am tired of HGVC's concentration in Orlando, Hawaii and LV. In fact, I am seriously contemplating getting a Marriott Newport Coast just so I can go to Disneyland plus Southern California. However, if DVC is building in Disneyland, I may not be first in line but I definitely will start saving my pennies now! Thanks for the information.

Save those pennies!!!! I know through the grape vine that Disneyland DVC is planning on some BIG BIG things for DVC! I will know a ton more after i get back mid September.

 

[sandcastles]

I bought my add-on at BCV from Disney. Without looking up my paperwork it was around 2002 and I paid around $75 per point. I listed it with the TS store last Thurs. evening and they called me Fri. morning saying they had an offer at $96 per point. I am paying them 10% commission because I didn't want to handle it myself. We are retired and will be out of the state most of the time until next spring.

I didn't buy as an investment. I bought to enjoy it. It's nice to know that I can make a profit when I'm ready to sell.

 

[benjaminb13]

Basic question: tough to understand-If disney works on the point system-
Why is vero beach so much cheaper than letssay-Wilderness Lodge---
If someone buys sufficient points in Vero can they exchange into another Disney resort without a hitch? Is this the "smart move?"

 

[Denise L]

Basic question: tough to understand-If disney works on the point system-
Why is vero beach so much cheaper than letssay-Wilderness Lodge---
If someone buys sufficient points in Vero can they exchange into another Disney resort without a hitch? Is this the "smart move?"

Owners at a particular resort can book at 11 months out, versus 7 months out for owners at other DVC resorts. If you are flexible with travel dates and resorts, then buying at the less expensive resorts can work. However, I think that dues may be higher at Vero Beach, though I am not sure. Also, if you absolutely have to spend the holidays at Wilderness Lodge, it is nearly impossible to book there at 7 months out. As it is, we own at Beach Club Villas and will have to call daily to get a holiday week at 11 months out.

 

[rkdahl]

From the DISBoards here is a list of annual dues at the various resorts. They vary for a number of reasons based on year built, taxes, insurance, location, etc.

This is by DVC resort per point owned:

Year OKW BWV VB VB(sub) HH VWL BCV SSR
2007 4.40 4.85 5.63 4.39 4.98 4.73 4.63 4.12
2006 4.24 4.69 5.27 4.12 4.34 4.61 4.48 3.98
2005 3.86 4.41 4.87 3.84 4.04 4.35 4.27 3.83
2004 3.68 4.25 4.67 3.67 3.86 4.22 4.18 3.80
2003 3.49 4.11 4.36 3.45 3.70 4.05 3.97
2002 3.22 3.92 4.17 3.33 3.48 3.80 3.77
2001 3.13 3.82 3.97 2.70 3.32 3.63
2000 3.16 3.94 4.08 2.87 3.25 3.62
1999 3.16 4.02 3.99 2.82 3.18
1998 3.17 3.94 2.76 3.20
1997 3.14 3.84 2.90 3.16
1996 2.99 3.70 2.82 3.16
1995 2.84
1994 2.70
1993 2.63
1992 2.56
1991 2.51

 

[Carmel85]

Owners at a particular resort can book at 11 months out, versus 7 months out for owners at other DVC resorts. If you are flexible with travel dates and resorts, then buying at the less expensive resorts can work. However, I think that dues may be higher at Vero Beach, though I am not sure. Also, if you absolutely have to spend the holidays at Wilderness Lodge, it is nearly impossible to book there at 7 months out. As it is, we own at Beach Club Villas and will have to call daily to get a holiday week at 11 months out.

Denise,

Would you consider buying out here on the West Coast disneyland?

How offen do you use you DVC in Florida?


At 11 months out do you call DVC or can you do it by computer like Hyatt to make your reservation?


Is the school holidays really hard to get?

Many Thanks

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Also, if you absolutely have to spend the holidays at Wilderness Lodge, it is nearly impossible to book there at 7 months out. As it is, we own at Beach Club Villas and will have to call daily to get a holiday week at 11 months out.

Actually, I heard the opposite that it is harder to get rooms when they are in the cheapest season. I forgot the name. We stayed at the Wilderness Lodge last Christmas. I had no problem getting the reservations at the 7 mo nth window by calling day by day. However, I do believe you must call day by day or you will not be lucky. I own at Beach Club Villas.

 

[Denise L]

Denise,

Would you consider buying out here on the West Coast disneyland?
How offen do you use you DVC in Florida?
At 11 months out do you call DVC or can you do it by computer like Hyatt to make your reservation?
Is the school holidays really hard to get?

Hi Bob,

Absolutely! I am already trying to figure out how to pay for DVC CA points. I will have to sell something, I'm sure. Our guide already has us on the callback list when points go on sale (though I will read about it first on the disboards and then call her to let her know).

We only have enough DVC points to use them every other year in FL, but I would like enough to go every year.

All reservations are made over the phone. I think the hardest times to get are during the Winter holidays. I have not heard about anybody planning 11-7 months out not being able to get a resort for a school holiday week. Rarely do I read about nothing being available, even at 5 months out.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Denise,

Would you consider buying out here on the West Coast disneyland?

How offen do you use you DVC in Florida?


At 11 months out do you call DVC or can you do it by computer like Hyatt to make your reservation?


Is the school holidays really hard to get?

Many Thanks

Not Denise but I live in California...

We've gone 3 times so far. Once in May, once in August & once in December. All reservations were really easy to get. The May & August trip were done at our home resort. I booked 11 months out day by day. It was kinda of a pain to call day by day but I needed specific dates. The December trip was at Wilderness Lodge at Christmas time. So what I did was book my home resort at 11 months then, at 7 months I called day by day and move my room over to Wilderness Lodge. This way I figued I would at least have a place to stay.

As with any timeshare... I believe if you can't plan ahead it might not work in your favor to own one. Planning is definitely the key to getting your reservations when you want.