Does it make sense to buy for points?

[rpw]

I was at a sales pitch today and an option came up that I never considered. Anyone want to tell me the pros and cons of buying a property with the sole purpose of converting it to points to turn it into a travel package?

For instance, if I bought Grand Chateu in Vegas, it would cost about $30,000 for a 2br. The maint fee would be about $850 and it would cost about another $150 to convert it to points (let;s call it $1000 a year) that would buy me 110,000 mrps a yr. That means every 2 years I could pick up a travel package that would get me to Hawaii and give me a 1 wk stay at the JW in KoOlina on Oahu. I could piggy back that with the week stay at KoOlina and have some more time on the island.

OK, flying from ORD to oahu is about $1,000 per person, so the maint fees pay for the two tickets, so all I have a "free" week at the JW?

OK, that's my thinking. Some one point out where this isn't worth it?

Thanks

 

[andypoole]

I expect you'll get every opinion under the sun on this one, so you'll have to back your own decision, but we recently bought a week just for points, which is known as a points machine. We didn't pay $30,000 though, but for $25,000 we got the 110,000 points a year plus Gold Marriott membership for life. (gets ready to be shot down!)

 

[CMF]

I'm not a points expert but, do some research here and you'll find that you can buy 100k points every year if both you and your wife have a Marriott Rewards account for about as much as you'll pay in MFs + the conversion fee every year without laying out $30 grand.

Charles

PS I'm sure somebody will be by in a minute to put it more eloquently and explain it with more detail.

 

[cp73]

That means every 2 years I could pick up a travel package that would get me to Hawaii and give me a 1 wk stay at the JW in KoOlina on Oahu. I could piggy back that with the week stay at KoOlina and have some more time on the island.

Some one point out where this isn't worth it?

Thanks

It takes 150,000 points for a seven day stay at any of the Hawaii Marriott Hotel Resorts, not 110,000. If you want points buy them as Charles suggested. Keep reading on this board about the points. 7 nights at any of the category 6 or 7 resorts will take a minimum of that many points.

 

[KathyPet]

If you and your spouse each have a separate Marriott Rewards # you can each purchase 50,000 points a year for $625.00. So 100,000 points will cost you $1350 to purchase vs 110,000 points for trading in your time share for $1000 (Maintenance fee and cost to convert to points). I am assuming that you can trade for points every year which not all Marriotts allow but assuming that you can at the end of two years you would have 220,000 points which cost you $2000 vs 200,000 points which cost you $2700 to buy. Now 7 nights in a category 7 Marriott plus 50K in airline miles will cost you 200,000 points and 7 nights in a Category 7 plus 100,000 airline miles will cost you 250,000 points. Just 7 nights in a Category 7 hotel with no miles will be 150,000 points. So if you need 100,000 airline miles plus the hotel you are coming up 30,000 points short which you could probably earn by using a Marriott VISA for everything including charging your Maintenance Fee. If you don't need the 100,000 miles then you can get away with less points .

 

[applegirl]

NO, I don't think it's worth it.

 

[JimIg23]

Having young children and needing 2 bedrooms, I don't think it is worth it for us. However, DW and I have thought about it alot for when we are empty nesters and a cat 7 hotel for the 2 of us would work well, especially in Europe. If the deal is good enough, we may do it one year..

Did they offer you an upfront point bonus for buying?

 

[Zac495]

No. And I like the points. I bought for points. Knowing that you can purchase points (as other posters have already explained) makes it clear.

Manor will give you 110K every year with a reasonable maintenance fee - 800ish. But you have to pay 19,500 for it. Not worth it. But I would buy points each year - nice to have the points and the flexiblity it gives you.

 

[SDKath]

Can you buy points as a resale owner? Thanks! K

 

[LAX Mom]

Kath-
Anyone can purchase (or receive as a gift) 50,000 Marriott reward points per year, you don't have to own a Marriott timeshare.
Just go to www.Marriottrewards.com and sign up for an account. Do the same for a spouse and you can purchase 100,000 points per year without owning a timeshare.

 

[KathyPet]

Well of course you have your initial investment which will be considerably higher if you buy from Marriott. However you may or may not be able to recoup your investment or some of it when you sell so that needs to be factored in. For example if I was to list my Marriott manor Club platinum week with Marriott to sell right now I would net $14250,00 when they sell it for me. I paid $14500 for it in 1994 for I would get back what I paid for it. That may or may not be the case for every purchase. Other Tuggers have long complicated formulas to calculate how much money you would forfeit by taking the cash to buy the timeshare out of another investment vehicle instead of leaving it there to gain in value (or maybe not considering the current state of the stock market) but that is way too complex for me to deal with.

 

[jimf41]

Here is something a little less complex but might be a better use of your 30k. But marriott stock. It closed today at $19.24. A year ago it was selling for almost $45.00. This is a dividend stock which is what Warren Buffet buys almost exclusively. If the stock doubles in the next 5 years your TS purchase will be free less taxes on the profit. If the stock tanks and Marriott goes under your stock purchase or your TS will be virtually worthless.

As far as buying for points, IMO it's another spin on looking at TS ownership as a business decision. It's not a good business decision. It never will be. If you like the resort and want to vacation there buy it. If not, don't IMHO.

 

[dioxide45]

There are several people on the forum that make great use of their points. They purchased mostly preconstruction in the days of cheap prices and heavy incentives. Many also own multiple weeks that they exhcange for points. This gives them a great engine for MR points. A single week owner however I think has a harder time generating the points needed for two week stays with buisness class air to Europe. Especially those who own resorts that can only trade for points every other year. They have had great vacations and their initial $ investment has been recouped probably several times over. I don't know if those days are here now, but they may come back as Marriott struggles with sales.

 

[m61376]

Of course, with the changes to the points program just announced (with the effective devaluation of points although there are proponents who like the possibility of increased availability of rooms [which of course remains to be seen]), there is a whole new twist to this discussion. In reality, those wonderful week-long European trips which could be had with exchanging for points twice will now be more like 3 exchanges and, like most things these days, you're paying more and getting less.

 

[Zac495]

Well of course you have your initial investment which will be considerably higher if you buy from Marriott. However you may or may not be able to recoup your investment or some of it when you sell so that needs to be factored in. For example if I was to list my Marriott manor Club platinum week with Marriott to sell right now I would net $14250,00 when they sell it for me. I paid $14500 for it in 1994 for I would get back what I paid for it. That may or may not be the case for every purchase. Other Tuggers have long complicated formulas to calculate how much money you would forfeit by taking the cash to buy the timeshare out of another investment vehicle instead of leaving it there to gain in value (or maybe not considering the current state of the stock market) but that is way too complex for me to deal with.

Now that Marriott devalued their points, I'm selling my Manor Club via Marriott. Thanks. I paid 19,500 - but all the incentive points are taking me to Hawaii this summer - so in a way, I can break even. Calling today.

I am using it this summer - can I list it for sale now?

 

[dioxide45]

Now that Marriott devalued their points, I'm selling my Manor Club via Marriott. Thanks. I paid 19,500 - but all the incentive points are taking me to Hawaii this summer - so in a way, I can break even. Calling today.

I am using it this summer - can I list it for sale now?

You can list it any time. Marriott knows that you have a reservation already, when they send you the agreement for the sale. It should list a first usage available year that you would fill in or they may have filled in for you.

 

[m61376]

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't understand how KathyPet comes up with netting $14,250, unless the units are now selling for 23,750, which is considerably more than you paid last year Ellen.

Also, that assumes that Marriott doesn't have any of these units waiting to be sold already. In many instances the waiting list is years long before they may get to selling your unit, esp. in this market. So, even though you have next summer's usage already accounted for, it certainly doesn't hurt to call and get your name on the waiting list. I would be surprised if they were able to execute a rapid resale for you, especially in the current market.

Using Marriott as a resale agent frequently nets the seller a better price (since Marriott "only" takes a 40% cut), but there are so many units listed elsewhere because many want a faster sale than Marriott will provide.

 

[dioxide45]

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't understand how KathyPet comes up with netting $14,250, unless the units are now selling for 23,750, which is considerably more than you paid last year Ellen.

Also, that assumes that Marriott doesn't have any of these units waiting to be sold already. In many instances the waiting list is years long before they may get to selling your unit, esp. in this market. So, even though you have next summer's usage already accounted for, it certainly doesn't hurt to call and get your name on the waiting list. I would be surprised if they were able to execute a rapid resale for you, especially in the current market.

From a recent post by another tugger, there are/were currently only three people on the waiting list to sell their Manor Club units. That may have grown in the past couple of weeks though. The resort is sold out except for those weeks that are reaquired.

 

[m61376]

From a recent post by another tugger, there are/were currently only three people on the waiting list to sell their Manor Club units. That may have grown in the past couple of weeks though. The resort is sold out except for those weeks that are reaquired.

I wonder why Marriott hasn't simply been exercising ROFR then? I had assumed (obviously erroneously) that they were inundated with units to sell since there have been such great buys passing ROFR lately, which would net them more profit on resale.

 

[KathyPet]

All I can say is that when I called the resale dept in June and inquired about selling my week I was told what my net would be. Can't recall what they said they would sell the unit for but the low 20,000 sounds about right. At that time they said they did not have a wait list of owners wanting to sell so they would take my unit for listing immediately. With the economy down the tubes since they they may have a waiting list now.

 

[BoTighe]

Just curious, If my wife and I accumulate points in separate MR account #s can we merge the points or do we each need enough to get separate packages?

 

[dioxide45]

Just curious, If my wife and I accumulate points in separate MR account #s can we merge the points or do we each need enough to get separate packages?

You can transfer the points needed to one of the accounts from the other at time of redemption.