Does anyone have a copy of the recent email Wyndham sent to owners alleging commercial use violations?

[Rolltydr]

But you do not rent. So I think it's phishing. The certified letter could be part of a phishing expedition as well, for those who answer the letter. They are looking for dupes.

My stepdad is 87. He just got back from a six-week stay in Georgia with his daughters. I got his mail often and went through it and threw away all of the ads, etc. But there were some I was unsure about because there was no information on the envelope, just his name and a return address. I didn't want to throw out anything that would be important.

He called us yesterday after going through his mail and said he got this letter that looked like it was from his reverse mortgage company. He actually called the number and must have sounded incredibly confused over the phone because the company hung up on him. It was a home warranty company. He kept asking if they were calling for insurance on his reverse mortgage.

Rick's stepmom was sharp when it came to junk mail and solicitations, except those last few years. Same with my Grandma. She suddenly fell for everything.

I hope I don't lose my attachment to reality when I am 87.

Just to clarify in case there is confusion. I didn’t receive the (phishing) email that HitchHiker71 is asking about. I do not rent and there would have been no reason for anyone to send that email to me. I did receive the quarterly (I think) Destinations email Eric referred to with the 3 year old link in it. As far as I can tell, renting or not renting, has nothing to do with the Destinations email. It’s simply a ridiculous mistake made by someone, actually probably several someones, at Wyndham. If I had let something like that get by at my old communications job, I would have either been seriously demoted or fired.

 

[Mongoose]

Ok, just got the same Destinations magazine link from WorldMark, but it’s still 3 years late for the Summer 2019 issue. How hosed up are they throughout the entire staff there?

Lol, I got the same thing.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Just to clarify in case there is confusion. I didn’t receive the (phishing) email that HitchHiker71 is asking about. I do not rent and there would have been no reason for anyone to send that email to me. I did receive the quarterly (I think) Destinations email Eric referred to with the 3 year old link in it. As far as I can tell, renting or not renting, has nothing to do with the Destinations email. It’s simply a ridiculous mistake made by someone, actually probably several someones, at Wyndham. If I had let something like that get by at my old communications job, I would have either been seriously demoted or fired.

I misundersstood! Sorry about that. I didn't get the letter. I also didn't get the magazine link.

 

[Eric B]

I misundersstood! Sorry about that. I didn't get the letter. I also didn't get the magazine link.

… give it a few years….

 

[HitchHiker71]

Just providing a quick update on this thread that I've had two owners send me their actual emails for this topic privately - and I have submitted those emails to Wyndham for their analysis and consideration. If I receive any updates that I can share publicly - I will post them here on this thread.

 

[Mongoose]

Just providing a quick update on this thread that I've had two owners send me their actual emails for this topic privately - and I have submitted those emails to Wyndham for their analysis and consideration. If I receive any updates that I can share publicly - I will post them here on this thread.

Pretty easy to check, what is the email smtp domain the came from?

 

[LAYGO]

Pretty easy to check, what is the email smtp domain the came from?

That is easy to fake too.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Pretty easy to check, what is the email smtp domain the came from?

It's very easy to spoof the sending domain - it's even feasible to spoof the sending IP address - though that's a bit harder to do. The sending domain was wyn.com. The legitimacy of the emails sent is no longer in question to be clear.

 

[paxsarah]

Again, the issue is not that the email is fake - it's real. The issue is that the email was sloppy enough to look fake (or raise red flags), and Hitchhiker is following up with Wyndham on the resulting owner reaction and encourage them to communicate better in the future.

 

[LAYGO]

I read the situation like this . . . and from 23yrs in the tech industry . . . and 3 years consulting with a travel MLM. They've got THE CHEAPEST people they can working there. They want just enough to get the job done & a lot of times they don't care about it enough, only to get the next "thing" ready to send. As long as it's making money, they'll keep delivering the results as is. Also, for the most part, they've already "got your money", so delivering "the best" isn't their goal . . . just enough so you don't quit & not a penny more.

I spent 3 years consulting with a travel MLM where my team of 4-5 out delivered their full time staff of 6-8. They had ONE good person. Our Scrum Master was constantly trying to get their people to improve. We gave a task to one of their full time employees that should've taken 2-3 days . . . it took them 2 weeks.

Everything being described as how Wyndham is handling things tech-wise or policies reminds me of my time there.

 

[Mongoose]

That is easy to fake too.

Actually checking the domain is easy to verify something is fake. It’s more difficult to prove something is real. Most spoofing is done with a fake domain that is easy to rule out.

 

[ladawgfan]

Again, the issue is not that the email is fake - it's real. The issue is that the email was sloppy enough to look fake (or raise red flags), and Hitchhiker is following up with Wyndham on the resulting owner reaction and encourage them to communicate better in the future.

So has it been determined for sure the email was real? Did Wyndham verify that? I’m confused as to whether this is another attempt by Wyndham to curtail “commercial use guest reservations” or a follow up from their previous correspondence. Did this go to a second group of “violators.” Other than the policy enforcement changes that occurred following the first group of letters, I don’t know of anyone that Wyndham took additional individual actions against.

 

[Jan M.]

So has it been determined for sure the email was real? Did Wyndham verify that? I’m confused as to whether this is another attempt by Wyndham to curtail “commercial use guest reservations” or a follow up from their previous correspondence. Did this go to a second group of “violators.” Other than the policy enforcement changes that occurred following the first group of letters, I don’t know of anyone that Wyndham took additional individual actions against.

Here on Tug or in the Facebook groups we've not heard that anyone who previously received a certified letter got this email.

What we did hear was that some owners who got the email reported that they rarely even use a guest certificate.

I found it interesting that not too long after that the Wyndham Facebook group called Wyndham owners helping owners - rentals welcome dropped the rentals welcome part of the name. Since that group was where I saw the posts about the emails and the group has 38,000+ members I wondered if anyone who wasn't in that group received the email.

Edited: One person in that group said they received a certified letter 10 years ago. Not sure if they got this email too nor if they've continued to rent.

 

[paxsarah]

Since that group was where I saw all the posts about the emails and the group has 38,000+ members I wondered if anyone who wasn't in that group received the email.

I first saw it in a different Wyndham FB group. But I wouldn't be surprised if most/all of the recipients this go-round were from the various FB groups because it's the lowest hanging fruit in terms of matching a rental offering under a real name with that name on an owner's account, with dates and potentially even the renter's name (if interest was expressed in comments versus DMs). And it certainly seems like Wyndham has expanded their reach with this letter to any publicly posted rental they can tie back to an owner, even just one posting.

I have to admit, I'm a little shocked at how many rental postings I continue to see in that group after the discussion of the letters.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Here on Tug or in the Facebook groups we've not heard that anyone who previously received a certified letter got this email.

What we did hear was that some owners who got the email reported that they rarely even use a guest certificate.

I found it interesting that not too long after that the Wyndham Facebook group called Wyndham owners helping owners - rentals welcome dropped the rentals welcome part of the name. Since that group was where I saw all the posts about the emails and the group has 38,000+ members I wondered if anyone who wasn't in that group received the email.

Edited: One person in that group said they received a certified letter 10 years ago. Not sure if they got this email too nor if they've continued to rent.

Several users in the Owners helping Owners group received the email in question. Several posted about it in that group as well. I cannot comment on the specifics of the reasoning as to why the "Rentals welcome" was dropped other than to say it was intentional due to legitimate reports of some owners being targeted who only post rentals in that specific FB group. That is as much as I'm prepared to state publicly on this topic at present. Several of these same owners also did in fact receive the follow up certified letters - but they have chosen not to publicize the fact that they did receive the follow up certified letters - as they are under no obligation to do so and quite frankly it would likely be unwise to do so for various reasons.

 

[RENTER]

I was informed by other owners that they received a second notice this week about their renting and their accounts were suspended this week for 90 days and their guest reservations cancelled during those 90 days

 

[WManning]

I was informed by other owners that they received a second notice this week about their renting and their accounts were suspended this week for 90 days and their guest reservations cancelled during those 90 days

Sounds like Wyndham is putting a squeeze on thier competition!

 

[HitchHiker71]

I was informed by other owners that they received a second notice this week about their renting and their accounts were suspended this week for 90 days and their guest reservations cancelled during those 90 days

We have reports this week of additional notices going out as well. I haven't seen one firsthand - but we have fielded reports on the FB groups of additional notices. What I don't know is whether these owners received emails - or they only received official notices via certified mail. I was told that the emails originally sent would not continue given how badly those emails were formatted - so if emails were used again - I would like to know so that I can follow up with my Wyndham contacts with further evidence in hand.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I'm genuinely confused. How are rentals not allowed? Wyndham literally has a website for you to use to rent out the points that you can't use. How is that legally any different from finding a buyer yourself?

 

[geist1223]

Does Wyndham get a Cut if you use their Site?

 

[CO skier]

How is that legally any different from finding a buyer yourself?

Maybe it is and maybe it is not. Filing a lawsuit is the only way to find out. Good luck with that.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Does Wyndham get a Cut if you use their Site?

Yes 40% is the commission. And that is on only what days they rent. You may give them a week, but they rent 3 days only.

Club Wyndham Plus Owner Rental by Extra Holidays

Rent your timeshare with Extra Holidays today! List your unused Club Wyndham vacation time for rental & don't let your credits expire!

www.extraholidays.com

 

[geist1223]

Yes 40% is the commission. And that is on only what days they rent. You may give them a week, but they rent 3 days only.

Club Wyndham Plus Owner Rental by Extra Holidays

Rent your timeshare with Extra Holidays today! List your unused Club Wyndham vacation time for rental & don't let your credits expire!

www.extraholidays.com

Yes what I thought. The same horrible option they offer Worldmark Owners.

 

[chapjim]

I'm genuinely confused. How are rentals not allowed? Wyndham literally has a website for you to use to rent out the points that you can't use. How is that legally any different from finding a buyer yourself?

It's malum prohibitum. It's wrong because Wyndham says it's wrong.

 

[chapjim]

Yes 40% is the commission. And that is on only what days they rent. You may give them a week, but they rent 3 days only.

Club Wyndham Plus Owner Rental by Extra Holidays

Rent your timeshare with Extra Holidays today! List your unused Club Wyndham vacation time for rental & don't let your credits expire!

www.extraholidays.com

It's actually a little more than 40%. There's an additional charge called General Fees and Commissions (?). On my one and only EH transaction, it was an additional 1.8% so I will get 58.2% of the Gross Revenue. So says the statement. I haven't been paid yet (rental was May 7-14).