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Do you intend to wear a GPS wristband in Hawaii?

DannyTS

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Who would go to Hawaii and wear a GPS tracker? It does not sound like a vacation to me, I would rather stay home or go somewhere else.

 

Tamaradarann

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Who would go to Hawaii and wear a GPS tracker? It does not sound like a vacation to me, I would rather stay home or go somewhere else.


Well I guess they thought you would like that better than what I proposed, "Anyone not getting a Covid-19 test with a negative result within 3 days of arriving in Hawaii would be escorted to a guarded quarantine facility for 14 days"
 

DannyTS

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Well I guess they thought you would like that better than what I proposed, "Anyone not getting a Covid-19 test with a negative result within 3 days of arriving in Hawaii would be escorted to a guarded quarantine facility for 14 days"
284 new cases. At this pace, they will have to put GPS wristbands on the locals not on the visitors
 

dsmrp

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275 of the 284 were on Oahu, so the neighbor islands are doing much better at keeping it at bay.
 

DannyTS

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275 of the 284 were on Oahu, so the neighbor islands are doing much better at keeping it at bay.
If the neighbor Islands reported 9 cases they probably have a lot more.
 

jabberwocky

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The article doesn’t mention GPS. To me it sounds more like an active RFID system where sensors are located across the resort (I believe this is like the Disney Magicbands), rather than the combined RFID-GPS systems which are generally larger and much more expensive. They could in theory get off resort coverage if they paired the RFID device with a cell phone that has location tracking - but I don’t think the wristbands themselves have GPS.

Regardless, when I go to Hawaii we spend most of our time snorkeling, hiking or taking in the local culture and food. We may spend a day or two just relaxing at the resort if we’ve had a strenuous day. But just staying on resort is not appealing at all.

The trouble with bubbles is that they burst easily. This is a nice idea in theory - but I give it less than one month before it’s abandoned (if it is ever adopted) because a local employee brings covid onto the resort or visitors balk at the restrictions.
 

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Hawaii needs to stay closed until there is a vaccine.
 

dioxide45

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Hawaii needs to stay closed until there is a vaccine.
The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.
 

CPNY

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The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.
Agreed. They should all stay closed until a vaccine. But it’s not that ideal to do so. I have inside knowledge that Aruba is shutting down this week. I know this because I booked a trip there for Friday and every time I book an island it closed the week I’m to arrive. I’m not holding my breath on this one.

I did just read an article that researchers have discovered the virus has been spreading in the community for months prior to March. I think we all knew this already. I just hope the spikes in cases are mostly asymptomatic. I for one an done with this virus.
 

Tamaradarann

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The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.

There are two statements that I should make with respect to your question:
- First, the money goes to support the local government and infrastructure. Hawaii and the Caribbean Islands do not have an econony that can sustain itself without tourism. They do not collect enough tax dollars from the local communies. Tourism supports things that in other locations are supported by property taxes and income taxes paid by the local people.

- Second, their medical infrastruture is usually sufficient for the local people and tourists that usually come well and do not come to have non-emergency medical needs. People do not go on vacation or take a trip when they are ill or need medical attention. While accidents do happen and emergency illnesses do occur they are not very prevailent and life threatening like this virus.
 

JIMinNC

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Hawaii needs to stay closed until there is a vaccine.
The same could be said for just about Caribbean island nations. None of them really have extensive medical infrastructure. I don't know where all the money goes that these islands bring in through tourism and tax dollars.

The problem with this approach is a vaccine is not a silver bullet as some think it to be. It seems that a "good" vaccine might be only 60% or so effective, and the expectation is only about 60% of the population will get the vaccine. If those numbers are correct, then it seems a successful vaccine might only reduce the potential for spread by about a third or so. Also, even if a vaccine is available for wide distribution sometime in the first half of 2021, they are saying it could take up to a year to get to even that 60% vaccination level. These places could be looking at no tourism for another 12 -18 months, which would effectively destroy their tourism economies for much, much longer.
 

Tamaradarann

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The problem with this approach is a vaccine is not a silver bullet as some think it to be. It seems that a "good" vaccine might be only 60% or so effective, and the expectation is only about 60% of the population will get the vaccine. If those numbers are correct, then it seems a successful vaccine might only reduce the potential for spread by about a third or so. Also, even if a vaccine is available for wide distribution sometime in the first half of 2021, they are saying it could take up to a year to get to even that 60% vaccination level. These places could be looking at no tourism for another 12 -18 months, which would effectively destroy their tourism economies for much, much longer.

While I try not to be as pessimistic as you are with the effectiveness of the vaccine or the width of the distribution of the vaccine, I totally agree with your summary about destroying the tourism economies. I feel already that the Hawaii tourism econony has been temporarily destroyed and it may take 5 or more years to get back to something that they would be considered substancial and may not ever get back to the way it was.
 

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The problem with this approach is a vaccine is not a silver bullet as some think it to be. It seems that a "good" vaccine might be only 60% or so effective, and the expectation is only about 60% of the population will get the vaccine. If those numbers are correct, then it seems a successful vaccine might only reduce the potential for spread by about a third or so. Also, even if a vaccine is available for wide distribution sometime in the first half of 2021, they are saying it could take up to a year to get to even that 60% vaccination level. These places could be looking at no tourism for another 12 -18 months, which would effectively destroy their tourism economies for much, much longer.
I’m bad at making my sarcasm obvious lol. I feel the opposite. We need herd immunity. Looking at NYC, I’m hopeful that’s why we have hundreds of cases per day and not thousands. We had millions prior to testing
 

TheTimeTraveler

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Speaking of a Corona Virus Vaccine; the newest Flu Shot is now available. Any takers, or do you feel like waiting until October before getting it ?


.
 

JIMinNC

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I’m bad at making my sarcasm obvious lol. I feel the opposite. We need herd immunity. Looking at NYC, I’m hopeful that’s why we have hundreds of cases per day and not thousands. We had millions prior to testing

Yeah, even though the often-quoted experts say that even New York is not yet near any kind of herd immunity, I do sometimes wonder about that, as you obviously are. There has been no resurgence up there, but admittedly, New York has still not gone as far in re-opening your economy as some other states have. Given the success achieved so far, though, I do wish NY would move a little more aggressively than they have been. If NY can reopen successfully and not face a resurgence, then that can provide a valuable data set for other states. Such an outcome could be indicative that some level of limited herd immunity, coupled with good hygiene and masks indoors, can keep infections under some reasonable control and allow people to go back to work.

Since case counts and hospitalizations are now dropping significantly in the places like Arizona and Florida that saw the big July surge - a result achieved with only minor, targeted rollbacks of their reopening - that's another instructive data point that maybe they have also reached some inflection point in population resistance. Louisiana is another interesting case study, as that state has the highest cumulative per capita infection rate in the US. They also experienced two peaks - one in spring and another in July - but it's notable that the place that was hit hardest in spring - New Orleans - saw very low rates of new infection in the July surge. Makes you go "Hmmm".

Hawaii and New Zealand could also be counter data points, demonstrating that even with strict lock downs and quarantines that essentially eliminate the virus, it will inevitably resurface once activity restarts within a "virgin" population.
 

1Kflyerguy

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Speaking of a Corona Virus Vaccine; the newest Flu Shot is now available. Any takers, or do you feel like waiting until October before getting it ?
.

My wife and i always get our flu shots and this year will be an exception. I usually get them right away, but have recently read its better to wait and get the shot in Sept or Oct for maximum effectiveness during the active flu season. So i will wait until then for our shots, probably mid-September.
 

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I'm frustrated because Dr. Fauci recommended getting a flu shot as soon as possible, which we did 2 days ago. Next thing I see is the CDC is saying to wait until September or October. WTH? Just wish they could get in step with this stuff. Regardless, we got the shots and we'll see what happens.

My wife and i always get our flu shots and this year will be an exception. I usually get them right away, but have recently read its better to wait and get the shot in Sept or Oct for maximum effectiveness during the active flu season. So i will wait until then for our shots, probably mid-September.
 

CPNY

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Yeah, even though the often-quoted experts say that even New York is not yet near any kind of herd immunity, I do sometimes wonder about that, as you obviously are. There has been no resurgence up there, but admittedly, New York has still not gone as far in re-opening your economy as some other states have. Given the success achieved so far, though, I do wish NY would move a little more aggressively than they have been. If NY can reopen successfully and not face a resurgence, then that can provide a valuable data set for other states. Such an outcome could be indicative that some level of limited herd immunity, coupled with good hygiene and masks indoors, can keep infections under some reasonable control and allow people to go back to work.

Since case counts and hospitalizations are now dropping significantly in the places like Arizona and Florida that saw the big July surge - a result achieved with only minor, targeted rollbacks of their reopening - that's another instructive data point that maybe they have also reached some inflection point in population resistance. Louisiana is another interesting case study, as that state has the highest cumulative per capita infection rate in the US. They also experienced two peaks - one in spring and another in July - but it's notable that the place that was hit hardest in spring - New Orleans - saw very low rates of new infection in the July surge. Makes you go "Hmmm".

Hawaii and New Zealand could also be counter data points, demonstrating that even with strict lock downs and quarantines that essentially eliminate the virus, it will inevitably resurface once activity restarts within a "virgin" population.

When we look at the fact that T Cell immunity may play a larger role in protective immunity one has to ask themselves is this why NY isn’t spiking? NY hasn’t been the pillar of excellence when it comes to distancing. The parks never closed and were packed. Underground “raves” are happening. Hundreds of thousands have flocked to the streets to “party” and bar hop maskless. One may say NYC reached herd immunity due to the fact that we never had the test capabilities during the height of the pandemic. During my course of the virus, a week after my cough every one in all of the apartments started with the same terrible hacking cough (yes, I most likely gave it to the building, that’s living in NYC). No one here was tested. As a matter of fact, I qualified for a test when I contacted the Governors hotline and am still waiting to schedule my test.........since March 22nd! Of course I’ve had 5 others since now that testing is available. I remember cuomo in his earlier pressers talking about the waves that each city would face. NY first and the others to follow. Well, those others closed down within days of NYC. It is very possible that when they opened, they experienced their first wave. Also keep in mind, testing at the time Florida and the others opened was widely available. People were testing out of curiosity and many cases were asymptomatic. Imagine in NYC had the same testing in March that we do now! NYC cases would be in the millions I’d suspect. When you look at hospitalizations, you also have to ask, What criteria was directing admissions? Would people being admitted the past two months be sent home back in March? I’d say yes. The virus is real but the comparisons are skewed. As the cases grow in other states and the death count doesn’t grow as much as NY one may say NY did a horrendous job. Not only with the death count but the economic fall out with be much worse. Again, I don’t go by case count because testing was inaccurate and nonexistent to 90% of those with symptoms in March and April.
 

BJRSanDiego

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I'm frustrated because Dr. Fauci recommended getting a flu shot as soon as possible, which we did 2 days ago. Next thing I see is the CDC is saying to wait until September or October. WTH? Just wish they could get in step with this stuff. Regardless, we got the shots and we'll see what happens.
I read somewhere, perhaps on the Covid-19 thread on Tug, that people who have had the annual Flu/influenza shot that either they had something like a 20% less chance of getting Covid or were less likely to die by 20% (Sorry, I don't recall which). Also, people who had the annual pneumonia shot also had a 20 or 25% less chance.

So, perhaps Fauci was factoring that in, or perhaps it was for an entirely different reason.
 

JIMinNC

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When we look at the fact that T Cell immunity may play a larger role in protective immunity one has to ask themselves is this why NY isn’t spiking? NY hasn’t been the pillar of excellence when it comes to distancing. The parks never closed and were packed. Underground “raves” are happening. Hundreds of thousands have flocked to the streets to “party” and bar hop maskless. One may say NYC reached herd immunity due to the fact that we never had the test capabilities during the height of the pandemic. During my course of the virus, a week after my cough every one in all of the apartments started with the same terrible hacking cough (yes, I most likely gave it to the building, that’s living in NYC). No one here was tested. As a matter of fact, I qualified for a test when I contacted the Governors hotline and am still waiting to schedule my test.........since March 22nd! Of course I’ve had 5 others since now that testing is available. I remember cuomo in his earlier pressers talking about the waves that each city would face. NY first and the others to follow. Well, those others closed down within days of NYC. It is very possible that when they opened, they experienced their first wave. Also keep in mind, testing at the time Florida and the others opened was widely available. People were testing out of curiosity and many cases were asymptomatic. Imagine in NYC had the same testing in March that we do now! NYC cases would be in the millions I’d suspect. When you look at hospitalizations, you also have to ask, What criteria was directing admissions? Would people being admitted the past two months be sent home back in March? I’d say yes. The virus is real but the comparisons are skewed. As the cases grow in other states and the death count doesn’t grow as much as NY one may say NY did a horrendous job. Not only with the death count but the economic fall out with be much worse. Again, I don’t go by case count because testing was inaccurate and nonexistent to 90% of those with symptoms in March and April.

Agree. The huge death rate in NY/NJ/CT relative to what other hot spots are experiencing now certainly would seem to indicate that actual caseloads in NY/NJ/CT were orders of magnitude higher than what was detected. Better treatment options now may explain some of the difference, but that is likely only a small part of the difference. I just saw this article below on a huge NYC antibody study. Some areas over 50% have antibodies, but much lower in the more affluent areas of Manhattan. Overall average for the city was like 27%. If you factor in the T-Cell resistance (which based on an article I saw yesterday seems not really to be "immunity" per se, but increases the chances of mild or asymptomatic cases), I suspect NYC could probably re-open their economy faster than they have. Right now though, they don't seem to have the political motivation. I fear many wonderful small family-owned restaurants in the city will continue to be devastated and will never recover.

NY Times: NYC Antibody study

I didn't realize that you had Covid. Glad you recovered well.
 
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1Kflyerguy

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The resort bubble idea in interesting, but I am skeptical. The are some resorts i could probably be happy spending my time at, at least for short trip. But then the airfare starts to play a big factor if the trip is just 4 or 5 days. A lot would also depend on what services are available, and of course how I am feeling about whatever "crowds" they can convince to go.
 

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If we were to rank the resorts, what are the best suited for a bubble? I am thinking between Marriott Ko Olina and one of the HGVC resorts in Honolulu.
 
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