• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Do biennial contracts cost more?

richardjc

newbie
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
13
Reaction score
11
Points
13
I've been looking into purchasing a Wyndham timeshare and it seems like, based on the maintenance fees on listings, it seems like biennial contracts cost more per 1k than an annual contact from the same resort. Is that correct or am I looking at something incorrectly?
 

T-Dot-Traveller

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
4,647
Reaction score
3,595
Points
348
Location
Canada
Resorts Owned
Mayan Palace Regency
Taranova
I've been looking into purchasing a Wyndham timeshare and it seems like, based on the maintenance fees on listings, it seems like biennial contracts cost more per 1k than an annual contact from the same resort. Is that correct or am I looking at something incorrectly?

If your question is about MF cost per 1000 points -
I believe it is because you get charged a program fee every year

You may wish to post details- so a knowledgeable Wyndham owner can give you specifics.
what Wyndham resort -
what size point contract.
etc.
 

CruiseGuy

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
383
Reaction score
100
Points
253
Location
Central Florida
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Panama City Beach, Bonnet Creek, and Royal Vista
Yes, it's probably because the EOY contracts involve fewer points, so they are getting hit with the minimum program fee if you don't own additional contracts. The minimum program fee is the same for all contracts that have just over 200,000 points or less. And with an EOY contract, you actually own half the number of points because you only use them every other year. So someone with a 308,000 EOY contract owns 154,000 points - and your and maintenance and program fees are based on that 154,000 points.
 

paxsarah

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
3,772
Reaction score
2,915
Points
448
Location
Athens, GA
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard, Flagstaff, Grand Desert
Biennial contracts cost exactly the same as annual contracts of half the size. I own a 154,000 point odd year contract. It costs the exact same - both MFs and program fee - as a 77,000 point contract at the same resort.

I only recommend biennial now if the owner truly expects to travel more in alternate years. I don't think it's worth using points deposit to try to spread points to the off year if the intent is to travel similarly in all years. (This is the opposite of my advice under the old credit pool that changed in May 2017.) I was slightly against it after they first instituted points deposit, but now that they've changed the housekeeping structure I fully advise against biennial unless you have balancing contracts in the alternate years or a sizable number of annual points as a buffer. Or I guess grandfathered unlimited housekeeping.
 

ausman

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,768
Reaction score
187
Points
423
Location
New England
The minimum program fee for resale contracts is $165 which makes the breakeven point level around 258,000 points. If your contract(s) total less you will pay the $165, if your contract(s) exceed that level you will pay .64 per 1,000 points in the account.

I think for EOY contracts the fees are are payable at 1/2 each year and not all in the year the EOY points are awarded.
 

richardjc

newbie
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
13
Reaction score
11
Points
13
Yes, it's probably because the EOY contracts involve fewer points, so they are getting hit with the minimum program fee if you don't own additional contracts. The minimum program fee is the same for all contracts that have just over 200,000 points or less. And with an EOY contract, you actually own half the number of points because you only use them every other year. So someone with a 308,000 EOY contract owns 154,000 points - and your and maintenance and program fees are based on that 154,000 points.


That makes sense. So for example if I buy 2 smaller biennial contracts that add up to 200k a year the fees would end up being the same as an annual 200k contract at the same resort?
 

richardjc

newbie
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
13
Reaction score
11
Points
13
Biennial contracts cost exactly the same as annual contracts of half the size. I own a 154,000 point odd year contract. It costs the exact same - both MFs and program fee - as a 77,000 point contract at the same resort.

I only recommend biennial now if the owner truly expects to travel more in alternate years. I don't think it's worth using points deposit to try to spread points to the off year if the intent is to travel similarly in all years. (This is the opposite of my advice under the old credit pool that changed in May 2017.) I was slightly against it after they first instituted points deposit, but now that they've changed the housekeeping structure I fully advise against biennial unless you have balancing contracts in the alternate years or a sizable number of annual points as a buffer. Or I guess grandfathered unlimited housekeeping.

What is the house keeping structure now?
 

paxsarah

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
3,772
Reaction score
2,915
Points
448
Location
Athens, GA
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard, Flagstaff, Grand Desert
What is the house keeping structure now?
Each owner is given a certain number of housekeeping credits based on the number of points they own and are allocated for a given use year, and it requires 1 HK credit to make a reservation. If you deposit points to a future use year, the HK credits do NOT move along with the points. So if someone owned only a biennial contract and wanted to deposit points to the next (off) year for additional travel, they would have to pay for a HK credit which costs $159 to make a reservation in that off year. It used to be that housekeeping moved with the points, so you always had a commensurate number of housekeeping credits to make your future year reservations.

Even when you have a buffer, it may become a problem. I own an odd 154k contract along with some annual points. I had 5 HK credits this year, and made one large Wyndham reservation plus an RCI reservation (which doesn't require HK). Then I deposited my remaining points (144k) to 2022. In 2022, I now have 378,000 points for use, but only 3 HK credits. But the 4 remaining I have for 2021 will simply expire. It'll probably be fine because I'm more likely to make 2-3 larger reservations in 2022 than more frequent smaller trips. But I'm still leaving HK on the table in 2021 and could end up paying $159 if I want a 4th trip in 2022.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
Each owner is given a certain number of housekeeping credits based on the number of points they own and are allocated for a given use year, and it requires 1 HK credit to make a reservation. If you deposit points to a future use year, the HK credits do NOT move along with the points. So if someone owned only a biennial contract and wanted to deposit points to the next (off) year for additional travel, they would have to pay for a HK credit which costs $159 to make a reservation in that off year. It used to be that housekeeping moved with the points, so you always had a commensurate number of housekeeping credits to make your future year reservations.

Even when you have a buffer, it may become a problem. I own an odd 154k contract along with some annual points. I had 5 HK credits this year, and made one large Wyndham reservation plus an RCI reservation (which doesn't require HK). Then I deposited my remaining points (144k) to 2022. In 2022, I now have 378,000 points for use, but only 3 HK credits. But the 4 remaining I have for 2021 will simply expire. It'll probably be fine because I'm more likely to make 2-3 larger reservations in 2022 than more frequent smaller trips. But I'm still leaving HK on the table in 2021 and could end up paying $159 if I want a 4th trip in 2022.
The HK structure would be very costly for a guy like me. I always book a 1 bedroom short 2-4 day trips.. With a one size fits all cost for HK's of $159 it becomes pretty pricey if you add in the costs of the maintenance fees.
 

troy12n

Guest
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
1,287
Reaction score
776
Points
123
The HK structure would be very costly for a guy like me. I always book a 1 bedroom short 2-4 day trips.. With a one size fits all cost for HK's of $159 it becomes pretty pricey if you add in the costs of the maintenance fees.

It would be for my family too. We do lots of long weekends, 1-2 night stays, even a handful of 1 nighters back when we could. I'm glad we have unlimited HK. Also, I think Wyndham really shot themselves in the foot. The idea of someone paying hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially for a Platinum or Founders level ownership or PR, and then having to shell out money out of pocket for HK if they run out of credits seems really nickel and dime to me and cheapens ownership.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
It would be for my family too. We do lots of long weekends, 1-2 night stays, even a handful of 1 nighters back when we could. I'm glad we have unlimited HK. Also, I think Wyndham really shot themselves in the foot. The idea of someone paying hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially for a Platinum or Founders level ownership or PR, and then having to shell out money out of pocket for HK if they run out of credits seems really nickel and dime to me and cheapens ownership.
Blame it on COVID-19?
 

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
1,598
Points
274
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
Getting rid of unlimited housekeeping credits is the stupidest decision Wyndham made to make their retail purchases actually worth something. I hope they bring back single night stays. Being able to book single night inventory close to home is what seemed like the best benefit for me. I'm half way between Bonnet Creek and Clearwater.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,327
Points
298
Getting rid of unlimited housekeeping credits is the stupidest decision Wyndham made to make their retail purchases actually worth something. I hope they bring back single night stays. Being able to book single night inventory close to home is what seemed like the best benefit for me. I'm half way between Bonnet Creek and Clearwater.
Worldmark Bonus time looking better for most with the HK fees.
 

richardjc

newbie
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
13
Reaction score
11
Points
13
Can someone help me figure out why the maintenance fees on this biennial listing seem very high even with the program fee included? link below.

Ebay listing
 

Braindead

TUG Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
2,504
Reaction score
1,243
Points
298
Can someone help me figure out why the maintenance fees on this biennial listing seem very high even with the program fee included? link below.
It’s not uncommon for MFs quoted in eBay listings to be wrong. You can always ask the seller for an Estoppel or VOID
WBW MFs are $5.29 per thousand points that doesn’t include the program fee.
So for this listing:
77 x $5.29= $407.33 divided by 2 being a biennial contract = $203.67
$203.67 + the minimum program fee of $165.00 = $368.67 Annual MFs , it’s less if you already meet the minimum program fee.

Some want a monthly mailed statement & pay by mail add another $8 a month or $96.00 a year.

The MFs listed are clearly wrong but as I said that’s not uncommon with eBay listings. The owner of the contract might own another contract & they didn’t split the MFs correctly between contracts or the seller isn’t aware that the owner has another contract
 
Last edited:

richardjc

newbie
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Messages
13
Reaction score
11
Points
13
It’s not uncommon for MFs quoted in eBay listings to be wrong. You can always ask the seller for an Estoppel or VOID
WBW MFs are $5.29 per thousand points that doesn’t include the program fee.
So for this listing:
77 x $5.29= $407.33 divided by 2 being a biennial contract = $203.67
$203.67 + the minimum program fee of $165.00 = $368.67 Annual MFs , it’s less if you already meet the minimum program fee.

Some want a monthly mailed statement & pay by mail add another $8 a month or $96.00 a year.

The MFs listed are clearly wrong but as I said that’s not uncommon with eBay listings. The owner of the contract might own another contract & they didn’t split the MFs correctly between contracts or the seller isn’t aware that the owner has another contract

That makes sense. By WBW did you mean Worldmark though? I thought this was a Wyndham listing?
 

Braindead

TUG Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
2,504
Reaction score
1,243
Points
298
That makes sense. By WBW did you mean Worldmark though? I thought this was a Wyndham listing?
WBW - Waikiki Beach Walk & yes it’s Wyndham.
Club Wyndham at Waikiki Beach Walk
 

liongate88

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
136
Reaction score
27
Points
88
Resorts Owned
DVC (AUL), WKV, SVV, HGVC (BLVD, GW, Elara), HRC , WM
Each owner is given a certain number of housekeeping credits based on the number of points they own and are allocated for a given use year, and it requires 1 HK credit to make a reservation. If you deposit points to a future use year, the HK credits do NOT move along with the points. So if someone owned only a biennial contract and wanted to deposit points to the next (off) year for additional travel, they would have to pay for a HK credit which costs $159 to make a reservation in that off year. It used to be that housekeeping moved with the points, so you always had a commensurate number of housekeeping credits to make your future year reservations.

Even when you have a buffer, it may become a problem. I own an odd 154k contract along with some annual points. I had 5 HK credits this year, and made one large Wyndham reservation plus an RCI reservation (which doesn't require HK). Then I deposited my remaining points (144k) to 2022. In 2022, I now have 378,000 points for use, but only 3 HK credits. But the 4 remaining I have for 2021 will simply expire. It'll probably be fine because I'm more likely to make 2-3 larger reservations in 2022 than more frequent smaller trips. But I'm still leaving HK on the table in 2021 and could end up paying $159 if I want a 4th trip in 2022.
Interesting. I am also planning to buy Wyndham EOY contract and was wondering what are the restrictions. Banking also cost 39 usd I believe. Does anyone know how many HK credits a 105k contract has? And would borrowing/banking wyndham points restricts your ability to book on standard booking in any resort ( that is 10 mos)? And lastly what would be the minimum days for prime season booking? It mentioned 3 nights but not sure if this true for all resorts. Thanks
 

paxsarah

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
3,772
Reaction score
2,915
Points
448
Location
Athens, GA
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard, Flagstaff, Grand Desert
Interesting. I am also planning to buy Wyndham EOY contract and was wondering what are the restrictions. Banking also cost 39 usd I believe. Does anyone know how many HK credits a 105k contract has? And would borrowing/banking wyndham points restricts your ability to book on standard booking in any resort ( that is 10 mos)? And lastly what would be the minimum days for prime season booking? It mentioned 3 nights but not sure if this true for all resorts. Thanks

We receive 1 HK per 70,000 points issued, rounded down, so a 105,000 point contract would receive 1 HK credit in the years points are issued. Borrowed/banked points would only be available to book at 10 months. Minimum nights is 3 during prime season, unless booked in the express period (90 days) when it drops to 2.

If you're looking at an ownership of only 105,000 biennial points (as opposed to supplementing an existing account), once you add in the minimum program fee every year the effective MF rate per k is not great.
 

Mongoose

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
1,089
Points
373
Location
Colorado
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Pinion Pointe, Hilton The Bay Club, Worldmark
If you are talking developer, from what I have seen they do cost more per point/week. An example I saw with HGVC had 26K for a annual and like 22K for biennial, if I remember right. If you are talking resale I think it depends on the brand. I have two EOY Marriott/Hyatt. They work well for me. I don't see any difference in MFs. I do have to pay off year club dues for the Hyatt.
 

paxsarah

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
3,772
Reaction score
2,915
Points
448
Location
Athens, GA
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard, Flagstaff, Grand Desert
If you are talking developer, from what I have seen they do cost more per point/week. An example I saw with HGVC had 26K for a annual and like 22K for biennial, if I remember right. If you are talking resale I think it depends on the brand. I have two EOY Marriott/Hyatt. They work well for me. I don't see any difference in MFs. I do have to pay off year club dues for the Hyatt.
We are only talking about Wyndham, as we are in the Wyndham forum.
 

liongate88

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
136
Reaction score
27
Points
88
Resorts Owned
DVC (AUL), WKV, SVV, HGVC (BLVD, GW, Elara), HRC , WM
We receive 1 HK per 70,000 points issued, rounded down, so a 105,000 point contract would receive 1 HK credit in the years points are issued. Borrowed/banked points would only be available to book at 10 months. Minimum nights is 3 during prime season, unless booked in the express period (90 days) when it drops to 2.

If you're looking at an ownership of only 105,000 biennial points (as opposed to supplementing an existing account), once you add in the minimum program fee every year the effective MF rate per k is not great.
Would the minimum access fee 160 for 105k billed every year in a EOY contract? This would make the MF rate per K increase?
 
Top