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Disney Timeshare - Advise needed from TUG Gurus

PHXwyndham

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Hi All,

Probably this has been asked quite a bit, not sure.... but here it goes.

I've been looking at Disney for a while (for years). - I even went on the tour and the sales pitch was very aggressive. I don't know why the sales people get angry when we're just there to look (even when it was said a the start of the whole presentation) -

Hopefully someone can help me with the following questions:

1. The rooms we were shown in Orlando were quite small (1 bedroom) - I am a Wyndham owner and I usually stay in 2 - 3 bedroom villas.
2. Resale - If you buy resale do they treat you as a second class citizen like Wyndham does? - Wyndham always try to sell you more points during an "owner update" (sales pitch) - where they say I don't have certain things because I am a resale owner.
3. What do you guys recommend to start and try this out? - Something cheap is that's even remotely possible.
4. Disney vs Wyndham - I even said if I get more out of Disney I can get rid of my current contracts.
5. Contract date expiration with Disney - Is there something to watch for? - I've been a Wyndham member for 10+ years and the membership is perpetual.
6. Maintenance fees? - An average?

Hopefully I am not asking too much... Just looking to make the move if it's worth it.

Stay safe.
 

RX8

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I don’t own Wyndham but I own a Disney resale along with an HGVC affiliate.

First, I am surprised to hear you experienced an “aggressive” DVC sales pitch. I have been on multiple DVC sales pitches (on DCL cruises) and not one has been remotely close to what you could call aggressive.

My opinion but I don’t think you can really compare DVC vs Wyndham, or to any other timeshare system. One has to love Disney and the parks to want to own a DVC. With DVC you are of course limited in locations.

It isn’t a good idea to use your DVC points on an RCI exchange as the best use of the points is by staying onsite to experience everything Disney. DVC is very flexible and has no nickel and dime charges. MF depends on the resort but expect to pay about $8 per point. This includes property taxes.

DVC treats resale owners exactly the same with exception to certain membership ancillary benefits, such as DVC member only cruises and discounts on annual passes. As far as using your points for DVC resorts one is treated the same whether they are retail or resale.

DVC is easy to rent for a profit and holds it value well. As a result, the upfront cost is significantly higher. I paid $151 per point in 2018 for my VGC DVC and could easily sell it for $175 per point today. You may be able to find contracts with as few as 25 points and while you can bank and draw giving you three years of points to use you still won’t get many days. The cheapest resort will be around $65 pp. Home resort matters as you get 11 months advance booking compared to 7 months for everyone else. The popular resorts will be harder to get what you want at 7 months.
 
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elaine

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We've been very happy. Agree with almost all of above. You can only borrow 50% of points for 2021, due to covid cancellations. Also, with covid, rentals are not quite as easy and prices have ticked down--but it's still very easy to rent to at least cover annual fees. Even with Covid, I expect DVC to hold its value. There's a very active resale market. I use the Timeshare Store for all buying/selling. I've bought resale, sold, and rebought another DVC from them.
Some older resorts end in 2042. I bought AKV, as we like it a lot, are happy to stay there is we can't switch at 7 months. It was not that much more than SSR, which would be our least fav DVC, but still above any offsites. We've stayed at many Marriotts and HGVC in Orlando, which are all very nice. But, we love the DVC atmosphere, night Disney pool movies, quick service/food courts at the resorts (teens), and buses to the parks. We like to park our car and not drive for the week.
Resale is the same for booking and staying at DVC, except resale of Riviera can only stay at R and (maybe) new resorts later. I think resale purchase now cannot stay at R. I am grandfathered in.
For the best bang, I'd still buy AKV. The points for standard rooms are low and there are plenty of places to view animals other than your balcony. I'd also consider OKW for an extended contract (not the one expiring in 2042). If you look on disboards.com on DVC forums, you'll get an advocate for almost every resort and tons of posts about where should I buy.There are also spreadsheets of costs/pros/cons.
Staying in a 2 BR will be more $ than a wyndham. Lots love Bonnet Creek. If you want a 2+ bedroom, I'd stay at BC 1st to see how you like it before buying DVC. Can't you just decline owners update. That's what we do for TS we own. I state at check in to DO NOT CALL. sometimes they call 1X and I tell them NO and that's it.
You can look at the DVC points charts, then multiply by $8 (ave annual fee/point) to get your cost to stay in a 2BR DVC, not including your capital outlay.
You won't get a cheap DVC. Expect to pay $100+/point for WDW DVC (I would not buy HHI, A, Vero, as I think resale might be dicey in years to come, and you're always limited to 7 months to book WDW). IMHO you can recoup capital outlay on resale--but covid might change that. So far, resale prices are holding.
 
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frank808

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New resale owners (Jan 2019+) are not able to use their points at the Riviera Resort. Also probably won't be able to use post Jan 2019 resale points to book into the new resorts coming online. With Reflections being cancelled the next project is st Disneyland.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

bogey21

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I don't know a thing about DVC but if I were thinking about buying I'd wait awhile to see if COVID-19 brings more Sellers into the market. If it does, your cost to buy may come down, maybe substantially. Maybe I'm wrong. Disney Owners (and guests) seem to be a hearty bunch. My Son and his Wife just renewed their annual passes. I think the cost was something like $1,030 each...and the Park is only partially open and usage is limited. Wow...

George
 

Dean

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Hi All,

Probably this has been asked quite a bit, not sure.... but here it goes.

I've been looking at Disney for a while (for years). - I even went on the tour and the sales pitch was very aggressive. I don't know why the sales people get angry when we're just there to look (even when it was said a the start of the whole presentation) -

Hopefully someone can help me with the following questions:

1. The rooms we were shown in Orlando were quite small (1 bedroom) - I am a Wyndham owner and I usually stay in 2 - 3 bedroom villas.
2. Resale - If you buy resale do they treat you as a second class citizen like Wyndham does? - Wyndham always try to sell you more points during an "owner update" (sales pitch) - where they say I don't have certain things because I am a resale owner.
3. What do you guys recommend to start and try this out? - Something cheap is that's even remotely possible.
4. Disney vs Wyndham - I even said if I get more out of Disney I can get rid of my current contracts.
5. Contract date expiration with Disney - Is there something to watch for? - I've been a Wyndham member for 10+ years and the membership is perpetual.
6. Maintenance fees? - An average?

Hopefully I am not asking too much... Just looking to make the move if it's worth it.

Stay safe.
1. Other than OKW and studio rooms at Poly, rooms are generally smaller at Disney than outside resorts. You can find the breakdown on types of rooms and size on places like dvcnew.com.
2. I guess it depends on what qualifies as second class citizen. To me the line honoring the contract as written, not whether they have limitations on resale buyers. DVC does have limitations but less than most. But unlike most they don't give you a way to move those points to qualified status. DVC doesn't target members, renters, exchangers even cash guests for tours and they generally don't even encourage repeat touring nor do they generally gift you for doing so. High pressure is unusual with DVC though.
3. I recommend you become educated on the system and resorts. I get the sense you are very familiar with Disney in general. I feel that to make a truly informed decision one needs to be familiar with DVC, timeshare in general and on property stays. DVC is a specialty product at a premium price even resale. Once you have a feel for how you'll use it and the resorts along with your travel needs and planning windows; you'll know what's best. As a rule I'd discourage anyone buying cheaper to get a specific high end option but I'd also discourage one from buying high end to use mostly to try a number of resorts. As a rule the lowest option you'd be happy with most stays is the best assuming DVC makes sense at all. Then I'd look at a mid range # of points. I generally discourage going too small (like under 150) or too large (like over 300).
4. Disney only makes sense for DVC resorts and mainly for parks. It never makes sense to buy for other exchange options. If DVC makes sense, I'd keep both and use Wyndham for non DVC trips.
5. I wouldn't let expiration drive your decision but I would keep it in mind for the 2042 resorts. It's just a factor on value, not a driver of absolute choice IMO.
6. Disney is expensive, yearly and otherwise. Comparing a 2 BR equivalent a year DVC has generally been about 30% more per year. The flexibility has value but you're paying for that flexibility. Disney is proud of themselves.
 

TheHolleys87

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I agree with everything stated above. The value of DVC is in visiting Disney, not exchanging out of the system, and yes, the villas (except for OKW) are smaller than similar size in other systems.

Here are links that might be useful:

Points charts, so you can estimate how many points you need to buy based on resort, villa size and season of travel, and expected frequency of visits: https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/vacation-planning/points-charts/

As Dean says, https://dvcnews.com/ has detailed information on specific resorts, as well as information about the system itself.

And finally the Purchasing DVC forum on DISBoards, where you’ll find all sorts of viewpoints for decision making: https://www.disboards.com/forums/purchasing-dvc.28/
 

kanerf

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One of the best features of owning DVC is that there is actually an effective resale market. Should you decide to sell your DVC ownership, it is easy to do and depending on when you purchased, you might make money on the sale. This cannot be said of Wyndham (I own there also). DVC is of course limited to where they have resorts, so you really want to like visiting Disney World. Also, DVC points are very easy to rent or to rent out. You might want to try renting points for as stay before you decide to jump in. I was lucky enough to get a few RCI exchanges before I bought there. These are becoming very hard to get.
 

bnoble

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1. The rooms we were shown in Orlando were quite small (1 bedroom) - I am a Wyndham owner and I usually stay in 2 - 3 bedroom villas.
2. Resale - If you buy resale do they treat you as a second class citizen like Wyndham does? - Wyndham always try to sell you more points during an "owner update" (sales pitch) - where they say I don't have certain things because I am a resale owner.
3. What do you guys recommend to start and try this out? - Something cheap is that's even remotely possible.
4. Disney vs Wyndham - I even said if I get more out of Disney I can get rid of my current contracts.
5. Contract date expiration with Disney - Is there something to watch for? - I've been a Wyndham member for 10+ years and the membership is perpetual.
6. Maintenance fees? - An average?
1: DVC units are generally smaller and a little less well-equipped than others. For example, their 2BRs generally sleep 8, but I'm struggling to think of a 2BR that has a dining table that seats more than four (or maybe five) comfortably. The 2BRs are usually a modest increase over the 1BRs in terms of points required. Most 3BRs are point-heavy.

2: Resale DVC owners have some restrictions on how they can use points (original 14 only in those resorts, Riviera only at Riviera, cannot use for non-DVC Disney resorts, Cruises, or the guided tours), do not have access to most DVC Owner discounts, and are not eligible for special events (moonlight madness, etc.). IMO, the ones that matter are the annual pass discount, and to a lesser extent the in-system usage restrictions. The others are in the noise and don't really matter. Otherwise, I don't think you are treated any differently.

(As an aside: if you stopped going to "owner updates," you'd probably find that resale Wyndham owners aren't treated all that differently, either.)

3: There is no sense in which I consider DVC cheap. If that's important to you, DVC is probably not for you. Saratoga is probably the lowest-cost WDW-area resort, and enough points to stay over a peak-season week in a 2BR annually there would still cost you $25K give or take on the resale market.

4: They are incomparable. Disney is really only useful for staying at one of the WDW-area resorts. It is designed for people who spend that vacation more or less exclusively in Disney theme parks, wanting a Disney experience. Wyndham is a large network of diverse resorts, one of which happens to be the very nice Bonnet Creek. If you wanted to restrict your timeshare vacations to WDW, DVC can be a good choice. If you want timeshare stays at other places, DVC alone is not a great way to do it.

5: The earliest expiration dates are 2042--far enough in the future that you probably will have had your fill by then. Exit strategies may get complicated as we get closer to those dates, though, and if that matters you probably want something that expires later.

6: A peak-season 2BR week at Saratoga will run you almost $2K if you owned there, and that's one of the less expensive.

---------------------------------

If I were in the market for DVC, I would sit tight for at least six months and probably at least a year. The "new normal" of a post-COVID world is going to change the Disney experience significantly, beyond general impacts on travel. My own anecdotal situation is an example. We typically at least one Disney vacation every year, for the past 15 years or so. We have visited Disneyland several times, Disney World more times than I can count, a half-dozen Disney cruises, and a trip to Paris to spend a week in the city followed by several days at the Disney resort there. Right now, one of the last places I want to be is in a slow-moving, poorly-ventilated indoor queue, six feet apart and masked or not. So we don't plan to go back to a Disney park anytime soon, and our vacations are going to look very different---probably for years. More mountains and less-crowded beach destinations, fewer (or no) theme parks, water parks, cruises, etc. I also believe there are going to be some lasting economic impacts that are going to effect many US families. Put those together, and I expect the overall demand for Disney vacations is going to be lower over the next few years than it has been in the past several, with a corresponding decrease in resale values.
 

ljmiii

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1. The rooms we were shown in Orlando were quite small (1 bedroom) - I am a Wyndham owner and I usually stay in 2 - 3 bedroom villas.
Other than OKW, DVC's villas are in general smaller. That said, 1 and 2 BRs at resorts built in the 'middle years' - BLT, Kidani at AKV, VGF - feel quite nice. The 3BR Grand Villas are enormous...but priced accordingly.
2. Resale - If you buy resale do they treat you as a second class citizen like Wyndham does?
Since 2011 DVC has treated resale buyers differently and there have a number of 'turns of the screw' since then. That said, they have thus far not made any further differentiations retroactive (i.e. the resale restrictions continue to be whatever they were when you bought).
3. What do you guys recommend to start and try this out? - Something cheap is that's even remotely possible.
Rent a reservation from an owner or one one of the DVC rental sites.
4. Disney vs Wyndham - I even said if I get more out of Disney I can get rid of my current contracts.
Both the selling and renting markets for DVC are quite liquid - unbelievably so compared to HGVC and MVCI.
5. Contract date expiration with Disney - Is there something to watch for? - I've been a Wyndham member for 10+ years and the membership is perpetual.
Very much so. At this point I can't recommend someone new to DVC buy at any resort with a 2042 expiration date.
6. Maintenance fees? - An average?
MFs are based on points and the points needed for a reservation vary wildly based on resort, villa size, and season. You can easily find DVC point charts and MFs by resort online, pick a resort, season, and villa to get an idea of how many points you would need (and thus your projected MFs).
Hopefully I am not asking too much... Just looking to make the move if it's worth it.
When people ask me if they should buy DVC I ask three questions in return, "Do you plan on visiting WDW at least once every two years for at least the next 10 years?", "Can you plan at least 7 and ideally 11 months in advance", and "Do you really want to pay a premium to stay 'on property'?" Only if the answer to all of these questions is 'Yes' should you buy.
 

CPNY

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DVC is great if you’re going to Disney parks. If I were to buy a resale, I’d go with a small point contract, enough for 4 nights for the time spent at Disney parks then I’d add my other timeshares to the trip for 3 nights when we do universal.
 

Dean

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and a little less well-equipped than others.
On this note it may be helpful to understand that the studios are a LOT less equipped compared to most other studios, esp Wyndham or Marriott. And studios are among the most difficult room type to get a reservation at for rooms that are not specialty rooms like value at AKV.
 

CPNY

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Thanks everyone ! - I'll try to find a small contract to test it out and supplement with Wyndham.
Can you trade your Wyndham for DVC in RCI? Maybe try that first?
 

TheHolleys87

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Thanks everyone ! - I'll try to find a small contract to test it out and supplement with Wyndham.
Good luck - reportedly, there are more contracts than usual for sale currently, and Disney is not exercising ROFR.

Can you trade your Wyndham for DVC in RCI? Maybe try that first?
I agree! Before spending the $$ to buy, make sure the onsite privileges are worth the trade off in unit size and amenities. We’ve stayed at the Marriotts across IH 4 and at BC, and I miss those large units!
 

elaine

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I bought a 50 point "Starter" DVC VWL (now Boulder) and it worked out great! Got to test DVC, added onto the front of RCI trades, transferred in points from another DVCer 2X for bigger trips and to get 11 month booking at another resort. Like it so much, we sold that one and bought a larger contract at AKV.
I read on disboards that smaller contracts are being snapped up and still commanding higher prices. Possibly due to renters fiasco.
 

CPNY

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I bought a 50 point "Starter" DVC VWL (now Boulder) and it worked out great! Got to test DVC, added onto the front of RCI trades, transferred in points from another DVCer 2X for bigger trips and to get 11 month booking at another resort. Like it so much, we sold that one and bought a larger contract at AKV.
I read on disboards that smaller contracts are being snapped up and still commanding higher prices. Possibly due to renters fiasco.
I was thinking of a smaller contract for only a few nights here and there. Don’t need a whole week at a DVC and a one bedroom is preferable. I can do two bedrooms in Orlando through interval. Just not sure if a 50 or 60 point contract is worth it. I assume you can combine UY at you home resort and book 11 mo out. Basically take 3 years of 50 point contracts if I owned at boardwalk and book a room 11 mo for a larger room at 150 points?
 

ljmiii

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I was thinking of a smaller contract for only a few nights here and there. Don’t need a whole week at a DVC and a one bedroom is preferable. I can do two bedrooms in Orlando through interval. Just not sure if a 50 or 60 point contract is worth it. I assume you can combine UY at you home resort and book 11 mo out. Basically take 3 years of 50 point contracts if I owned at boardwalk and book a room 11 mo for a larger room at 150 points?
In normal times you could bank and borrow your 50 point contract to make a 150 point reservation. But DVC is limiting borrowing to 50% of your points - so you would be limited to 125 points. That limit is currently without expiration but is expected to last at least until the end of 2021.

That said, I usually try to dissuade people from planning on banking *and* borrowing. Life happens to us all and if you need for some reason to cancel then you are left with little alternative then to try to rent out your reservation. You could try to rent out your points but would almost certainly be left with 'lost' points.
 

elaine

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you can combine same resort, same UY. You cannot combine different resorts. In 2021, you can only borrow 50% of points due to covid policies on borrowing points to keep availability. That could become permanent. Who knows.
If you get transferred points, they retain home resort and UY of other person.I banked and borrowed for 5 years and it worked out great for me. I didn't want a larger capital outlay. Plus, smaller contracts are very easy to sell. Like in 1 day. Try to get a UY at the beginning of normal travel patterns. I got a Sept UY and this was not great from summer travel. My next DVC was Dec 1 UY. We travel in Dec/ March/summer and rarely go in sept-nov, so that was perfect.
 

cbyrne1174

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The benefit of DVC over Wyndham is not having to juggle housekeeping credits and reservation transactions. It's mainly good if you want to go to Olrando for the weekend. Weekend stays are only about 30% more on points vs weekdays. I'll probably eventually get 100 SSR points so I can stay 1 night in a studio at a time and use it to visit Orlando on a Saturday night without having to drive an hour there and an hour back.

Right now I'm content with doing owner updates for 30,000 Wyndham reward points and getting 2 free nights at the Wyndham Garden next to Disney Springs for if I only want to stay 1 night in Orlando.

If I were a Wyndham owner that didn't live in FL, no way in hell would I spend the money on a DVC contract. I'd be content with Reunion, Bonnet Creek and SSR (via RCI exchange). It will cost you at least 3 times as much to stay a week in DVC as it would at Wyndham. The cheapest weekly DVC stay in a 1 bedroom is RCI, which ends up being about $1,000/week. Reunion and Bonnet Creek are frequently 35% off weekday stays for resale owners, making them the even cheaper option. Every year I stay at Bonnet Creek during week 22 (first week of summer vacation) for 5 nights at $55/night in a 1 bedroom deluxe. The cheapest DVC stay during that time is in an Old Key West studio using SSR points, which costs about $122 a night and you don't even get a kitchen.
 

rickandcindy23

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Disney through Disney is very expensive, but not more expensive than Marriott, Wyndham, Hilton, etc., retail purchases. The difference between Disney and Marriott, in my opinion, is that Disney doesn't lose 75% of its value as soon as you sign on the dotted line. Disney is also very rentable. We bought resale at $50 per point for OKW and $60 per point at SSR. We are not treated differently, but there are things we cannot do with our points. We cannot go on cruises with points, for example. I love Disney and still find it rentable, even with Covid-19. I just reduced my prices to get my units rented. I cannot say that about anything else I own.
 

CPNY

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you can combine same resort, same UY. You cannot combine different resorts. In 2021, you can only borrow 50% of points due to covid policies on borrowing points to keep availability. That could become permanent. Who knows.
If you get transferred points, they retain home resort and UY of other person.I banked and borrowed for 5 years and it worked out great for me. I didn't want a larger capital outlay. Plus, smaller contracts are very easy to sell. Like in 1 day. Try to get a UY at the beginning of normal travel patterns. I got a Sept UY and this was not great from summer travel. My next DVC was Dec 1 UY. We travel in Dec/ March/summer and rarely go in sept-nov, so that was perfect.
I’d want a sept UY since I would want fall and early December travel. Occasionally Jan.
 

CPNY

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The benefit of DVC over Wyndham is not having to juggle housekeeping credits and reservation transactions. It's mainly good if you want to go to Olrando for the weekend. Weekend stays are only about 30% more on points vs weekdays. I'll probably eventually get 100 SSR points so I can stay 1 night in a studio at a time and use it to visit Orlando on a Saturday night without having to drive an hour there and an hour back.

Right now I'm content with doing owner updates for 30,000 Wyndham reward points and getting 2 free nights at the Wyndham Garden next to Disney Springs for if I only want to stay 1 night in Orlando.

If I were a Wyndham owner that didn't live in FL, no way in hell would I spend the money on a DVC contract. I'd be content with Reunion, Bonnet Creek and SSR (via RCI exchange). It will cost you at least 3 times as much to stay a week in DVC as it would at Wyndham. The cheapest weekly DVC stay in a 1 bedroom is RCI, which ends up being about $1,000/week. Reunion and Bonnet Creek are frequently 35% off weekday stays for resale owners, making them the even cheaper option. Every year I stay at Bonnet Creek during week 22 (first week of summer vacation) for 5 nights at $55/night in a 1 bedroom deluxe. The cheapest DVC stay during that time is in an Old Key West studio using SSR points, which costs about $122 a night and you don't even get a kitchen.
The only issue with the RCI exchange is availability. Although, I don’t book Disney a year out. I’m usually booking less than 4 mo in advance so I hear a DVC wouldn’t work for me
 

Dean

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I’d want a sept UY since I would want fall and early December travel. Occasionally Jan.
IF one has consistent travel times the best UY is the one that starts the closest to that travel time. If one travels throughout the year some times might be more important than others. Those that travel throughout the year and where there is fairly equal importance, they are taking a small amount more risk though the amount of risk depends on the rest of their personal situation.
 

elaine

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Although, I don’t book Disney a year out. I’m usually booking less than 4 mo in advance so I hear a DVC wouldn’t work for me
If you are OK to stay any place and switch rooms, it might work. If you want more than 1-2 nights together or at specific resorts, esp. Fall-Dec, which are very popular with DVC, that'll be hard to book. If you said summer, I'd say it's usually fine.
DVC is very cost effective for studios. Between the RCi trade fee and $190 inbound DVC fee, that's the same as my annual fees for 50 points.
 
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