Did I make the right decision?

[Ken555]

Not sure If I should have started a new thread. I have the same question. Here are my details:

Just returned (yesterday AM) from WKORVN via a special Westin Promotion that I received last spring for 5 nights/6 days (~$700) with a reduced fare rental car. We received the pitch on Friday (1/6) for the 2BR/2 bath WKORVN. During the final stage of the pitch they changed gears and pitched the Lagunamar property with a higher Starwood point incentive. Probably since we would not vacation as often in Maui since we live on the East Coast. We decided on the Lagunamar property since the incentive seemed better for the same type of property (Platinum Plus week). Here are the details:

Property: Westin Lagunamar 2 BR Lockoff, Week 16 - Platinum Plus (Annual Floating Week/Float Unit)
Purchase Price: $44,900.00
SVN StarOptions: 148,100
SPG Starpoints: 72,000 (every other year)
SPG Points Incentives: 150,000 at signing. Four certificates for 80,000 each redeemable at $1,550.00 per certificate. Must exercise by 12/31/2012.

All other fees are the same as mentioned on TUG.

So here is my question - Should I rescind or not? This is our first timeshare purchase and I wished I had found this site prior to the sales pitch.

ALL comments are welcome.

Rescind. Immediately.

The consensus on TUG seems to be that the prime reason to purchase directly from Starwood is only if you intend to get to 5* elite. And, when purchasing to retro a 148k week (as they'll do this for free at that time only).

Fwiw, you can purchase your Lagunamar week via resale for pennies on the dollar. I see little reason to buy direct and every reason to buy resale. And, those StarPoints are only valuable for you depending on your own travel patterns and how you would take advantage of them... Remember, this is all just a game, and you'll benefit more by reading here for some months prior to purchase so you know all the ins and outs before purchase. Good luck!

 

[DeniseM]

Hi and welcome to TUG: ABSOLUTELY RESCIND!

The timeshare you paid $45,000, sells for next to nothing on the resale market.

See the other posts in this thread for all the details.

 

[Karen G]

So here is my question - Should I rescind or not? This is our first timeshare purchase and I wished I had found this site prior to the sales pitch.

ALL comments are welcome.

Absolutely rescind while you still have the opportunity to. The TUG advice to many first time buyers who come here asking the same question is usually always the same: Rescind.

It's not because timeshares are bad--it's because just the mere fact that you are questioning your decision shows that you don't have all the information you need to make an informed purchase or you don't fully understand all the implications of your purchase from the developer.

You have this one brief chance to rescind your purchase, take a deep breath, fully research the purchase, and fully understand what it's all about away from the salesman's hype. No matter what that salesman tells you, the same deal will still be there next week. But, your right of rescission won't be if you don't exercise it NOW.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

If you want to use it for trading or as the resale unit to upgrade to help you reach 5* elite, here are some units to consider ---- and these are not optimized for trade season and MFs.

Westin Mission Hillshttp://www.ebay.com/itm/2BR-Lockoff-WESTIN-Mission-HillsTIMESHARE-Deed-RESALE-/360423560428?pt=Timeshares&hash=item53eaeb14ec

Westin Ka'anapali

Sheraton Desert Oasis

Sheraton Vistana Old Key West

elaine

 

[vacationtime1]

Rescind while you can

As others have said, Lagunamar is an easy trade and/or can be purchased on the resale market for pennies on the dollar. There is no reason to pay $45K to buy it from the developer.

If StarOptions (Starwood's internal trading currency) are important to you, buy a resale Kierland for about $15K and you will have 148,100 StarOptions to play with every year, exactly the same as buying at Lagunamar for a third of the price. You can easily trade into Lagunamar with those 148,100 StarOptions whenever you want and you can trade into Maui on exactly the same terms as you could with Lagunamar StarOptions. You will have less capital at risk and will not lose 90% of it immediately.

This is not a close call.

 

[GiantDolphan]

Thank You!

To all who responded - Thank You! I will probably take a short breather and jump back in via the resale market.

Lots to learn....

Again, thanks!

 

[DeniseM]

To all who responded - Thank You! I will probably take a short breather and jump back in via the resale market.

Lots to learn....

Again, thanks!

You are most welcome!

May I suggest that you start with the Starwood FAQ at the top of this forum.

 

[Saltydog44]

Hmmmm Why we bought from Westin

We are 5* members with Westin having bought 4 weeks at WKORVN several years ago. We've been really pleased since a big reason for us was the points conversion. We've travelled all over the world with suite upgrades everywhere on points. We've given kids and friends some great vacations.

We come to Maui just about every year, but don't use all 4 weeks so our points bank is still pretty much intact at about 1MM.

Here is how I justified Kauai:

1. We may go there from time to time, but it gives us almost 100,000 points if we don't.
2. Cost was 27,500; 6 months same as cash. I'll pay with my American Airlines card for points in July. (Can you say Points Addict?)
3. 150,000 SPG points + 4 Options for 80,000 each for $1500.

That is a total of 470,000 points for an outlay of $33,500

We value our points - based on real experiences - @ .05-.07 per point which is between 23,500 and 33,000 plus the points on American which we would value at about 1,500 since we will use them for half of a FC ticket.

As noted above and using the same values, the points for turning inweek will way more than offset the maintenance fees.

What am I missing?

I don't intend to sell and my son will inherit the whole shebang. (If we don't use it all!!)

 

[DavidnRobin]

Hmmmm... Is this a set-up?
You bought 4 WKORVN (Maui) weeks at ~$47.5K per week = $190K
These go for about $15K per week on resale - Mandatory resort so SOs can be used at other SVN resorts. You get around 80K SPs per week conversion (before bonuses), but paying ~$2200/week MFs currently - that is quite a bit $/SP compared to other resorts even after bonus.
I hope you got PFL which they gave several years ago.

You can do the Kauai 'math' anyway you want, but that 'deal' is even worse as the MFs are even higher - and can be brought on the resale market for $6K - which sold/sale for ~$50K per week - ouch

Oh yeah... IMO

 

[Saltydog44]

Not a setup - just my thinking

Hmmmm... Is this a set-up?
You bought 4 WKORVN (Maui) weeks at ~$47.5K per week = $190K
These go for about $15K per week on resale - Mandatory resort so SOs can be used at other SVN resorts. You get around 80K SPs per week conversion (before bonuses), but paying ~$2200/week MFs currently - that is quite a bit $/SP compared to other resorts even after bonus.
I hope you got PFL which they gave several years ago.

You can do the Kauai 'math' anyway you want, but that 'deal' is even worse as the MFs are even higher - and can be brought on the resale market for $6K - which sold/sale for ~$50K per week - ouch

Oh yeah... IMO

for $6000 I am out $6000. By my math - and maybe I'm wrong - I am even. and the conversion to points - for us anyway - is a big deal.

Just My Opinion and again No I am an owner and this isn't a setup

 

[jarta]

Saltydog44, ... When you are happy here, others are often unhappy about your happiness.

Be happy! Enjoy your vacations! ... eom

 

[LisaRex]

for $6000 I am out $6000. By my math - and maybe I'm wrong - I am even. and the conversion to points - for us anyway - is a big deal.

I spend my money on a lot of frivolities that only make sense to me, including my resale timeshare. No need to try and justify yourself, if you can afford it and you enjoy it. Just come on in and enjoy the company of your fellow timeshare owners.

 

[DeniseM]

What am I missing?

Welcome to TUG

We are very frank here about how to get the best deal, so when you post "your deal," expect to get some honest feedback.

I'm not sure you really want to hear this, but you could have bought half your timeshares on the resale market and saved around $90K or so for the exact same outcome (5 Star Elite.)

You aren't factoring in the enormous amount of money you have tied up in assets that are worth about 30% of what you paid for them. That seriously increases the cost of your Starpoints.

You may not be aware that the maintenance fees at the Maui resort have doubled in 10 years - but the Starpoints have stayed exactly the same. That means the Starpoints have half the value that they did 10 years ago, even though the hotel Starpoint rates increase nearly every year. When you factor in the increasing hotel rates, Starpoints are probably worth 40% of what they were 10 years ago.

 

[Saltydog44]

Hmmmm Why we bought from Westin

I spend my money on a lot of frivolities that only make sense to me, including my resale timeshare. No need to try and justify yourself, if you can afford it and you enjoy it. Just come on in and enjoy the company of your fellow timeshare owners.

Thanks for your thoughts and for jarta's

I wasn't really trying to justify anything - the original question was what am I missing in my own - often twisted - logic. Based on my thinking, this approach makes sense for ME - maybe not for anyone else. It was helpful to go through the process of writing down my logic.

After many years of working, I know that some folks are not happy unless you accept their POV/Analysis. As the old saying goes, there is more than one way to skin someone - errrr - a cat

 

[DavidnRobin]

Thanks for your thoughts and for jarta's

I wasn't really trying to justify anything - the original question was what am I missing in my own - often twisted - logic. Based on my thinking, this approach makes sense for ME - maybe not for anyone else. It was helpful to go through the process of writing down my logic.

After many years of working, I know that some folks are not happy unless you accept their POV/Analysis. As the old saying goes, there is more than one way to skin someone - errrr - a cat

I said 'Is this a set-up?' because it sounded like a SVO Timeshare sales pitch that I (and others) have heard many times. No offense intended - just being honest... I was given you a breakdown of the money considerations which you requested - but the justification appears to have already been done. If you have more $ than you need then by all means - Enjoy your SVO TSs - and buy as many as you can afford - someone has to keep the boat afloat...

btw - we own WKORV OF, WPORV, WSJ x2 and WKV x2...

 

[Saltydog44]

Welcome to TUG

We are very frank here about how to get the best deal, so when you post "your deal," expect to get some honest feedback.

I'm not sure you really want to hear this, but you could have bought half your timeshares on the resale market and saved around $90K or so for the exact same outcome (5 Star Elite.)

You aren't factoring in the enormous amount of money you have tied up in assets that are worth about 20% of what you paid for them. That seriously increases the cost of your Starpoints.

You may not be aware that the maintenance fees at the Maui resort have doubled in 10 years - but the Starpoints have stayed exactly the same. That means the Starpoints have half the value that they did 10 years ago, even though the hotel Starpoint rates increase nearly every year. When you factor in the increasing hotel rates, Starpoints are probably worth 40% of what they were 10 years ago.

You're right about the ied up money, but that is a sunk cost now and I don't planto sell anyway. The fees since I bought in 2006 are "only" up 50% but I still get more than my annual fee in points. Lots of family and friends agree.

The real question - instead of hindsight criticism from 2006 - was about my logic regarding Princeville.

I guess I have seen that I could have bought a resale and then converted it by buying another. As best I can tell - on this deal - I am out 0$$. What I did was pretty simple and EOY given the 4 weeks I already have is also pretty simple. I didn't want another week.

Truth be told, the best economic strategy is to not get involved at all - like many things, it's cheaper to rent it.

 

[DeniseM]

Salty - Are you at one of the resorts right now? Did you just buy the WPORV week? If so, I highly encourage you to rescind, and hang out with us for awhile to discuss some other strategies.

WPORV is simply a bad investment. It has very high maintenance fees, no resale value, and poor rental value. It's a voluntary resort - so the Staroptions don't transfer when you resale it. You can pick them up on ebay for pennies on the dollar.

There are owners who buy from the developer for Starpoints, but WPORV is just about the worst place to do that because of the factors I listed above.

If you really want another week - there are much better options.

 

[Saltydog44]

I said 'Is this a set-up?' because it sounded like a SVO Timeshare sales pitch that I (and others) have heard many times. No offense intended - just being honest... I was given you a breakdown of the money considerations which you requested - but the justification appears to have already been done. If you have more $ than you need then by all means - Enjoy your SVO TSs - and buy as many as you can afford - someone has to keep the boat afloat...

btw - we own WKORV OF, WPORV, WSJ x2 and WKV x2...

Sorry if I was too abrupt - the purchases of WKORVN were done in '06 and I had a lot of buyer's remorse. After all this time it has worked out really pretty well even though I now know I could have saved some money but tha is ancien history. As I said - my kids and friends are really appreciative.

Now for Princeville - I really don't want two units. By doing the deal the way I did - including the AA points - I think I am netting out pretty well. Buying a second unit which I don't want would have cost net cash unless I am missing something.

My logic isn't the same as many I have seen here. It may not be applicable to anyone else, but it may be and could therefore be viewed as another option by someone who is trying to figure out what to do.

Different isn't necessarily wrong.

 

[MichaelColey]

Back to the OP...

Any advice? We have 10 days to rescind.

Thank you all for the quick replies. I will take the advice to read more on TUG before deciding whether or not to rescind in the next 8 days.

So it looks like your 10 days are up now. Did you rescind?

 

[ondeadlin]

You should absolutely rescind, for all the comments mentioned previously on this thread.

Take your time. Do your research. What you will find is that you can get incredible value out of timeshares - and that you can do it by purchasing resale for literally pennies on the dollar when compared to developer prices.

 

[DeniseM]

Now for Princeville - I really don't want two units. By doing the deal the way I did - including the AA points - I think I am netting out pretty well. Buying a second unit which I don't want would have cost net cash unless I am missing something.

[ADDED - As I said below, this is a "really simple EXAMPLE" of how requalifying works. Since the rules and prices change constantly, it is beyond the scope of my post to list the exact "deal" that may be available at any given moment. That would have to be researched by the buyer.]

Salty - here is a really simple example of how you can get twice as many Staroptions and Starpoints, for less money.

1. Buy a resale worth 148,100 Staroptions and 80K Starpoints (if purchased from the developer) for $5,000 or less, with a MF of $1,200 or less.

2. Buy a week from the developer worth 148,100 Staroptions and 80K Starpoints for $20K, with a MF or $1,200 or less, and requalify (grandfather in) the developer week.

Now you've spent $25K - you own 2 weeks every year, your MF is the same or less, and you got twice as many Staroptions and Starpoints, for LESS money!

 

[jarta]

Saltydog44, ... I agree with DeniseM that her suggestion is the most inexpensive way to get 296,200 new StarOptions. Those StarOptions can then be converted to Starpoints.

As an example of what is possible, last January I purchased a resale EY Platinum WMH for $3,000. Then, I upgraded a EOY Platinum Lagunamar for $20.5K into an EY OS (Ocean Side; beach front unit) Lagunamar and ended up with 296,200 StarOptions in the deal. I was also given 80K Starpoints as part of the purchase and 6 options to purchase 80K Starpoints for $1,550 per option. (Because I purchased last year, I was offered a further, separate opportunity to purchase 6 more options of 84K Starpoints for $1,550 each. I jumped at the deal. I have yet to touch the 6 Starpoint options that came with the upgrade. They expire 12/31/12.)

I still don't know for sure if you can rescind or not. However, if you do have that opportunity to rescind, you should do it and work out some deal where you buy at around $20K and add a retro of another week purchased on the open market.

Also, a good rule in timesharing is not to buy more than you can use or afford. Think carefully about about the carrying costs - including the annual assessments, time necessary to use all the weeks, the travel cost getting there and the money you will spend once there.

BTW, I love Starpoints myself and I now have 1.4M in my account. They are very valuable and, if used correctly, can take quite a bit of the sting out of the acquisition costs of the weeks you own.

GLTY! Be happy in your travels and thankful you have the means to enjoy your life. ... eom

 

[EducatedConsumer]

The OP disappeared.

Seems like I've seen this several times. The new purchaser falls for the ether of the sales process, and struggles to give up the Taj Mahal that they think they just purchased. Little do they know that that Taj Mahal is probably not as described by the sales people, and that it's worth pennies on the dollar after the Developer has sold it (in most, not all, cases).

 

[VacationForever]

Salty - here is a really simple example of how you can get twice as many Staroptions and Starpoints, for less money.

1. Buy a resale worth 148,100 Staroptions and 80K Starpoints (if purchased from the developer) for $5,000 or less, with a MF of $1,200 or less.

2. Buy a week from the developer worth 148,100 Staroptions and 80K Starpoints for $20K, with a MF or $1,200 or less, and requalify (grandfather in) the developer week.

Now you've spent $25K - you own 2 weeks every year, your MF is the same or less, and you got twice as many Staroptions and Starpoints, for LESS money!

I do not believe there is an annual developer week worth 148,100 Staroptions and 80k Starpoint that costs only 20K.

 

[jarta]

"Seems like I've seen this several times."

It's more than several times. Don't you ever wonder why?

It's not because it's a set-up by Starwood plants. It's because anyone who enjoys timesharing is driven away from the Starwood TUG forum by the intolerance of any enjoyment in timesharing. Actually, it's a sad state of affairs and why normal posting on TUG's Starwood thread is only by a very small number of people. Sad. But, look in the mirror. All, IMO. ... eom